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PeterCat posted:So? He kneeled on her for all of 30 seconds, can't tell if it was on her neck since the video resolution is so low. And handcuffing is the easiest was to control her. I cannot begin to imagine that kneeling on the neck of a child would be good, no matter how short the amount of time spent is. Nor is it likely to be necessary.
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Mar 22, 2022 00:32
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Kalit posted:It’s weird for a number of unions to not support the incumbent candidate who’s supposedly the most pro-union option Not entirely. Unions are great, but it is quite honestly a big problem that they are made up of apparatus that will back candidates that aren't the best for the members, but are the best that they can think they can get away with right now. This is not to comment on Lee Carters own status (I don't know the bloke from Adam to be quite honest) but it is vital that you look at which union groups and which sector of unions are supporting certain candidates. Police unions are the obvious one to watch in this instance of course, but we should discount them more generally. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 15:42
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Gumball Gumption posted:It's going to be great when the mods give a bunch of sixers to the people who didn't burst in to start another insane derail about Ukraine. Yeah I don't want to backseat mod, but there are whole threads in multiple places for this stuff. Alongside that I don't want to delve too deep into trying to tell the future, but have there been any indications of what might occur post loss of the houses under the democrats? Can things be done via executive order then?
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Mar 24, 2022 15:55
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Panzeh posted:Can't even see how destroying imperialist tanks and other armed forces is a goal in an of itself, what a worthless "anti-imperialist". This, doesn't appear to have much to do with the comment? Being anti-imperialist means being opposed to almost every single nation state at the moment. Unfortunately.
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Mar 24, 2022 19:12
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Who is that a quote from VitalSigns?
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Mar 26, 2022 15:50
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Gatts posted:Industry and the market taking advantage and gouging people for profit and to sink the Biden Govt and backslide into DeSantis/Trump dictatorship is hell of a thing. Should take a lesson to never bail out and help industry because they’ll just laugh and stab you in return. Nationalisation is a good start and nothing else.
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Apr 3, 2022 17:13
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Mellow Seas posted:I see you've reached the "fantasizing about people doing things that justify me committing violence against them" stage of reactionary populism. Erm, this is probably in reference to the Texas state bill that has it so that the state can take your children away from you if you are supporting their transition. What sparked a lot of this discussion off was the decision by the USAF to remove some of their own employees and their families when the bill could potentially have caused them real harm and people asking if this could not be expanded/used in the same was as at Little Rock. It could, quite literally, be happening to people in Texas soon.
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Apr 16, 2022 18:36
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Mellow Seas posted:If the law is officially struck down and still being enforced as law in Texas, well, then we are in very different (and really scary) situation. And if it isn't? If it is maintained or expanded, would you not try and stop it? At what point do things become resistable by force seems to be the operative question of our time.
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Apr 16, 2022 18:49
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Mellow Seas posted:If you lived in Texas, would you vote for Beto O'Rourke to be governor? Because Beto becoming governor and stopping the law in its tracks is not "Disney world". It's a guy who won 48% in a statewide race, who comes from a party that is unanimously opposed to the bill. How does this prevent large scale voter suppression? Does this also prevent things like blue state legislatures maybe beignf flipped red at some point, do you believe that votigg alone will change things for the better? If so good. But a lot of prior successes for civil rights, rights to work and so on were won through violence alongside voting.
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Apr 16, 2022 19:20
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Bottom Liner posted:Just say you don't want any progress if not every single issue is instantly fixed by pressing a button. That's the argument being proposed here. No, I'm asking for what the solution is if voting alone won't fix it. What the acceptable form it should take is and how we should live with it. I do think that an active effort should be made on a great deal of stuff all at once though. I'm going to quote James Baldwin here: "' It's taken my father's time, my mother's time, my uncle's time, my brothers' and my sisters' time. How much time do you want for your progress?”. That stuck with me. How long should people who are suffering have to wait, and for what should they wait for? That whole thing is so so vital to how we approach things.
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Apr 16, 2022 19:35
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Main Paineframe posted:You're correct here, but there is one extremely important caveat that you're missing: both voting and violence require a large amount of strong public support to be effective. What moved the needle on things like civil rights and labor rights were large-scale movements that had the numbers and reach necessary to seriously upset things across the country if they wanted to. The implicit threat of "if you don't let us get what we want through fair voting, we'll get it by whatever means necessary" only works when a movement can muster a large amount of people in the first place. And when I say "strong public support", I don't mean that people will say on a poll that they support the issue position or movement. I mean when people consider the issue a major political priority, to the point where they're willing to become a single-issue voter over it or even get arrested over it. If your movement is actually pretty small and has very little strong public support, then you're gonna find that violence is no more effective than voting. This does not seem to be entirely accurate. It can often also be smaller scale/support movements coupled with being focused at the right area and at the right time. For instance the IRA never had large scale support in Britain but still managed to create a negotiated peace via external pressure and terror attacks. You also have various different union groups willing to not work and cost people in charge vast sums to effect change. It seems as if many people in this thread are. However the bigger argument appears to be about how any movement from above to resolve problems is considered too much for some and I was just wondering where that came from.
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Apr 17, 2022 07:55
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm glad we agree, at least partially Then do you think there is hope of any description for systemic solutions?
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Apr 17, 2022 22:06
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It's also defo not for a presidential run. Musk was born overseas.
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Apr 25, 2022 21:46
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Sanguinia posted:Pretty funny to read all these hot takes about Leftist Collective Defense against fascist tyranny and minority pogroms considering all those posts for the last few months pontificating about how Ukraine should have rolled over when Russia came to conquer them. Could you illustrate this with quotes?
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May 1, 2022 20:43
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Leon, are you quoting an article here or have you started writing stuff that sounds like biblical apocalyptica fanfiction for some reason?
Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 13:31
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PhazonLink posted:this is human nature. Personally I would disagree with this. It is not a general human response it is a response best typified by those with power.
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May 5, 2022 22:39
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How are u posted:I've never quite understood that. You think that just slashing police budgets and doing nothing else will fix the police? That's all that tons of people hear when they hear "Defund the Police!" It'd mean there are less police and, as such, less police to murder minorities. Slashing police budgets would also mean less given to buy APCs and water hoses or to re-arm themselves.
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May 6, 2022 23:25
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's the gun and culture of impunity that you need to murder minorities. Culture, generally, doesn't stand on peoples necks. That usually requires someone to do so, and I believe that starving the police of funds would help encourage them to leave. Then prevent them from acquiring ex military gear, because they assuredly paid for upkeep of them. How are u posted:It would also mean less police to keep people safe, which is what the minority communities that have overwhelmingly negative responses to the slogan are worried about. You have to meet people where they are concerned and show them that their concerns are real and taken into account, and that they won't be worse off then they are right now if you enact your policy. How do the police keep you safe? The threat of violence or certainty of punishment could keep you safe, but that needn't be done by the police. Indeed, in many instances (say that you are a minority, or a DV victim, or a Sexual Assault victim) the police do not keep you safe, or prevent you from being harmed. You have to do that yourself. I will meet people where they are, as long as that place is not supporting an institution based on abuse. Otherwise, no I don't think you really should.
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May 6, 2022 23:41
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Dick Trauma posted:But... but... civility! Isn't this the gentleman who was convinced Bernie Sanders winning an election would result in him being hanged in Central Park?
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May 8, 2022 16:16
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The problem seems to be that the pain of economic policy is never felt by those who possess money and that, increasingly, the dividends of everything else are funnelled upward so much that any economic policy looks stupid from the ground.
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May 11, 2022 17:03
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How are u posted:Yeah, I think we could. What is this based on other than hope? What is it that has filled you with confidence in the democratic party over the last few weeks and months?
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May 11, 2022 19:03
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Tbf sometimes I try and have something to say from an outsiders perspective, as I don't live in the USA. But I hope I don't come across like this. Also shallow attempts to help are at least attempting to help. We should all be reading more and developing looping more ofc, but it's good to help folks if you can.
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May 15, 2022 19:35
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DarkCrawler, in the nicest possible way, please stop. No-one gives a poo poo about your none evidential musings about how fascism can be stopped by shunning alone. People have asked you questions about your points of view and you retreat into testerical musings on how they are all against you and are simply "unwilling to do the hard work". When people raise objections you shout, when people try to ask you to explain you complain. Every time anything approaching clarity on what you want people to do and how that will create the end result you want you return to saying "not like that". If not like that then how? If your not going to tell people how then what do you want? What you apparently want is to argue about something you don't actually understand on the internet. But please, do it on a tumblr or a blog where you can curate your own little area and stop inflicting this many words to say nothing. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 09:09 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 09:03
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I think he wants you to prove that China cares more about its citizens in relation to Covid.
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May 20, 2022 21:29
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How would you be able to tell the difference? What is the essential, material, difference?
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May 21, 2022 19:06
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Bar Ran Dun posted:As is language that equates the liberals and the fascists. Why? From what I've seen most liberal political parties and groups aren't against them. They consider them important and necessary parts of the political structure that exists. If they believed otherwise they would be doing more than simply saying that there is nothing that can legally be done. Power, ultimately, matters as much as the rule of law and sometimes one must grab the first to prevent the entire destruction of the second. What is the Liberal apparatus doing to prevent the end of various rights in the USA? What is the plan and how is it being implemented?
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May 23, 2022 17:11
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Bar Ran Dun posted:There are much worse potential futures if it does fail. There are also better ones. If you believe that this is the best everything can be then I can only say that you are wrong.
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May 23, 2022 18:45
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Discendo Vox posted:People are in fact trying to make things better (which is extremely not synonymous with "hurting the ones responsible"), and the processes that do so are difficult. I have already discussed some of them in the last several pages. I'd argue it is synonymous. Justice needs to be seen to be done and, as we are seeing, has increasingly little to do with the law as practiced. You just don't find this idea persuasive for some of your prior reasons. Nothing is being done because of the structural weaknesses on display.
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May 25, 2022 22:29
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Retributive justice isn’t the only type of justice. Sure, it isn't. But you cannot simply look at what is happening and say that it is just. Actually even if it is complex and as nuanced as you are saying it is, a claim I disagree with because it appears based on the idea that justice is being worked towards at all, it can still be obvious who possesses guilt. There is also the fact that power needs using in this instance.
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May 26, 2022 07:12
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eXXon posted:It's not their fault the janitor with the only set of keys took over an hour to show up, what were they supposed to do? Break open the door?
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May 31, 2022 15:44
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Discendo Vox posted:This is a level of cultivated ignorance of current events that borders on a lack of object permanence. It takes seconds with Google to find out the various things the DoJ is actually doing. Garland was meeting with his EU counterpart yesterday over coordinated responses to the invasion of Ukraine. The ability to realise what other people are trying to communicate, as opposed to simply claiming that they are communicating the wrong thing, is an important part of any discussion and one that seems to be quite missing here. What is the DoJ doing "of note" to prevent the USA becoming worse as a nation state? What is Garland doing of note? It'd be like describing a job where someone fills a chair and moves on it as not a "do nothing" job because the person is still doing something.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:08
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It really is astonishing how much people can believe in a system that does active harm over trying to change it in case things got worse than they are now. Simple entropy implies that decay of institutions is inevitable, so why not change it? It's even weirder to see politicians, people with power and influence just sort of shrug their shoulders and say that they can do nothing. If that is true then what use are you? What is your purpose if not to do good?
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Jun 9, 2022 14:58
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Oracle posted:It is a very dangerous precedent and was exactly what Trump was attempting to do with all the Hunter Biden Ukraine stuff and trying to get Comey to go along with his nutty bullshit. Weaponizing the Justice Department to go after your political enemies is just another ten steps down the road to tinpot dictatorsville. Appointing an independent investigator is the correct call but the Republicans put the kibosh to that pretty quick. To me this seems to run into an obvious problem of "You can't just arrest the wealthy and well connected for their obvious malfeasance! That means you are attacking your political enemies!". It sounds like an excuse to return to the idea of private law amd to essentially not bother to try and hold those wealthy enough to a set standard. I'm certain that it is not meant in that manner, but too much of this seems like something that needs root and stem changes, not going "oh well".
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Jun 10, 2022 07:31
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Oracle posted:Agreed. DO you not see how one of those things can be framed as the other simply because they might be perceived differently by different people? It doesn't matter if the actuality is that there is a divide between the AG and the President,when whichever right wing media host you care to name is going to frame it the opposite way?
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Jun 10, 2022 20:10
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CommieGIR posted:The problem remains that if you break that barrier, then you do exactly what Trump was trying to do, which is the AG becomes the presidents personal defense lawyer and hound dog against their political enemies. For putting people on trial for their obvious crimes if they happen to be wealthy and/or powerful? Like, I get it you don't want to do what your opponents are doing, but why are you not preventing them from ever winning again by using the obvious evidence of their malfeasance out of some misguided belief in norms that are so eroded as to be matchstick thin.
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Jun 10, 2022 20:48
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:How do you know they buy the lines they're selling This does seem to be a sticking point "The liars and petty tyrants that rule us are inherently driven by moral concerns, why would they pretend otherwise?" seems to be, if you will pardon me, a touch daft.
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Jun 14, 2022 09:07
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yronic heroism posted:How do you know they don’t? In the present day Trump has kind of pushed this to the breaking point in our minds, but most people say some version of what they believe most of the time. Are people, and their institutions, motivated reasoners? Yes, that’s also the case. Two things can be true at once. Then we look at the results. Surprisingly the imperial ends happen to be what is achieved in these conflicts, as opposed to the moral reasoning.
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Jun 14, 2022 10:00
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It shouldn't be expected though. It should be told to gently caress off. If you arent able to listen to the people implementing things you aren't doing progressive activism well. You seem to be saying "well harness self interest towards good ends" which, let's be blunt, is not as possible as a lot of us would like.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:26
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Jarmak posted:It's a lot more possible then telling everyone to gently caress off and getting anything done. Telling people who are looking to aggrandise themselves is not everyone. Especially not if it's coming from within organisations.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:24
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Push El Burrito posted:Elon just devouring that hand that fed him. If there are no consequences for doing so, why not?
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Jun 15, 2022 17:05
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