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Murgos posted:Team Trump actually thought that if Pence just started tossing ballots that Democrats could probably find enough ways to challenge or delay counts so as to avoid the state delegate roll call and run out the clock leaving no declared president on the 20th. Which means Pelosi becomes president and Trump stops being president. If no candidate holds a majority of the electoral vote (say, because a few states' slates of electors are contested and unresolved), then per the 12th Amendment it gets thrown to the House of Representatives to decide. Not a simple majority, one vote per representative, though. States vote as a bloc, one vote per state delegation. And Republicans control more states.
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Jun 18, 2022 20:43
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Murgos posted:Arguably he wasn’t acting as president during that meeting, he wasn’t engaged in presidential duties. He was acting as candidate Trump seeking re-election. One of the job duties of everyone in elected office is campaigning for reelection. Pretty sure that exact argument has been tried in court against Trump and failed already.
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Jun 26, 2022 07:41
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Murgos posted:I almost wonder if the OLC guy from the last hearing, who backed many of Trumps heinous plays for authority, didn’t turbo gently caress the investigation from the outset with some dubious legal opinion that needed to be overcome first internally because from where I am “we needed all hands on deck to clear the 800 Jan 6 rioters through the system first” seems like a deliberately losing strategy designed to distract while the rats scurry for cover. On the other hand though the electors, Georgia letter and electoral count act conspiracies are just by their nature well documented and less ephemeral. I'm pretty sure you always charge and prosecute and try the lowest guys first, working your way up the rungs of the ladder, because those guys flipping on their official contacts, and them flipping on their own superiors, and on up the chain is typically the only way you can possibly accumulate enough evidence to charge (let alone convict) the higher-ups. Jan 6 is just unique in how many thousands of suspects were involved and arrested (plus the absurd depth of documentary evidence of that day and cataloging all their crimes, all of which needs to be collected and sorted through and distributed to all the various cases), orders of magnitude larger than the typical white collar scheme, which makes it that many times slower to process.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:33
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Charliegrs posted:I hope that documentary film becomes Trump's equivalent of Nixon's recorded phone calls during Watergate. There's three. Three documentary films. Ah ah ah. 
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Jun 28, 2022 03:01
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Oracle posted:Republican senators will, to a man, not vote to convict while excoriating him to the sky, just like they did the last time. Uh, in his first trial, Romney broke ranks and voted to convict; the last time, fully seven R Senators did so. We needed more than double that to actually convict him, but it was not at all "to a man". cat botherer posted:indicked Back under W, I didn't know "indict" was spelled like that, and tried to discuss the Fitzpatrick/Libby/Cheney investigation with my parents. My dad was like "no that's what Catholic priests do. It's pronounced 'indict'" 
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Jun 29, 2022 01:17
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Dr. Faustus posted:Hutchinson was in Ornato's office with Engel and heard it 1st-hand from Engel, who was there. That's still secondhand. Engel and Ornato can testify* themselves what they saw and heard. * You know, under oath. Anyone can say anything out in public.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:38
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Cimber posted:Slightly off tanget, but the constitution says the president has the power of pardon except in matters of impeachment. That would be a good idea for a restriction, but legally that doesn't seem likely to prevail in court. The most common reading of the Constitution and the pardon power is that the President can't pardon the subject of an impeachment (to obviate their impeachment trial), but anyone else is fair game.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:28
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Bel Shazar posted:Doesn't that scenario not matter in the midst of RICO? In either case Meadows should be liable for being part of the corrupt organization within which the witness tampering occured. Nobody involved in any of this is getting charged under RICO
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Jul 1, 2022 19:34
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-Blackadder- posted:drat, so this is what flawless perfection looks like. The problem is then it's associated with a bad novel
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Jul 6, 2022 23:29
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Uglycat posted:I mean, so far as I know there are two ways to make trum ineligible to hold public office. The US doesn't charge treason, as a rule. Someone's been indicted for treason literally two dozen times, ever. The Constitution sets the bar for conviction so high it's practically impossible. He needs to have levied war against the United States, or adhered to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Trump did not lead or train or arm the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers; his whole shtick is working through a half dozen intermediaries and speaking in terms of whims and hypotheticals, "wouldn't it be nice if somebody", like a mob boss. And the second half also doesn't apply, because the US hasn't had any foreign power declared as a war "enemy" since WWII. Not to mention that you require the testimony from two eyewitnesses to convict.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:38
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mdemone posted:https://twitter.com/JordanOnRecord/status/1546552500333039621?s=20&t=VNhIdwiM48NkoYEvXQogWw This forecloses basically all of Bannon's paths to claim this wasn't contempt, right?
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Jul 11, 2022 19:08
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cr0y posted:Forgive my ignorance but does all this evidence then turn into a DOJ investigation if so desired? Is no one concerned that losing the House and Senate in the midterms is going to really gum this up? Yes they can, and they can send DOJ information that they have not publicly released. DOJ does not depend on the makeup of Congress, just the White House. The Committee always planned to wrap their work up this year, for obvious reasons.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:55
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m gonna make a wild guess that they’re going to be very, very bad. Pretty sure destruction of requested documents is a civil if not criminal offense no matter who you are. Especially once your OIG requests it. IANAL but looks like at minimum it falls under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 and 36 C.F.R. § 1230.
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Jul 15, 2022 04:30
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:The "normal" outcome of these hearings would be impeachment but there's no precedent for impeachment of a non-sitting President, Sure there is. Trump was impeached before the inauguration, but tried after it; and multiple government officials (judges, IIRC) have been impeached, and convicted, after resigning (in a failed attempt to preempt or moot impeachment proceedings against them).
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Jul 16, 2022 22:15
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean thats what i got. Thursday. And the committee is saying more might be coming after it.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:01
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mobby_6kl posted:But this is also a normal secret service operation, moving the VP to a safe location is like their whole point. The SS having "move the VP to a secure location" as SOP, and the coup relying on this happening in order to delay certification of the results and move onto the next step of the plan, can both be true.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:31
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crime fighting hog posted:Random question but could congress/senate propose and pass a law that Trump could not run again, or is this up to courts to decide? As mentioned, only convictions for treason or impeachment can ban someone from running for federal office. But even besides that, the Constitution explicitly bans Congress from passing laws targeting individuals. (And every state constitution does the same.)
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Jul 22, 2022 05:07
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mobby_6kl posted:
How long does that take to go up through multiple levels of appeal?
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Jul 22, 2022 21:57
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Automatic Slim posted:It was DOJ opinion memo written decades ago stating that sitting presidents shouldn’t be criminally charged. There is not statute or rule that says this. He was going by established department precedent. There was also AG Barr running interference of what conclusions got released and when. Also, his position wasn't some independent counsel office created by law, as we had in the 80s and 90s. That law expired in 1999. It was a special counsel, explicitly created by and run under the auspices and authority of the DOJ, reporting directly to and overseen directly by the AG. As such, it had to operate under the rules and regulations of the DOJ.
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Jul 27, 2022 22:25
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Xiahou Dun posted:Why the gently caress would the DoD be involved. I assume he meant DoJ. Uglycat posted:So ianal... Mueller report was /not/ a vindication, and dod could decide to file charges based on Mueller's work (without triggering any double indemnity stuff), yeah? Double jeopardy doesn't apply because he was never in first jeopardy; he was never tried for it. Statutes of limitations might apply, though. He also could still be impeached over it, theoretically, since that never happened back in 2019.
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Jul 28, 2022 02:50
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Tayter Swift posted:How many damned times have we seen rulings ordering Trump's taxes to be turned over to some party or another. Yes, he's lost every case about it. Last February SCOTUS refused to hear his appeal, and Mazars turned over the previous decade's worth of his taxes to the Manhattan DA. But those were subject to grand jury rules preventing their release. House Ways and Means could do more.
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Aug 9, 2022 17:36
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Trump hands someone a notarized pardon signed by him during his presidency tenure and they stick it in a safe deposit box until it is needed like a get out of jail free card. That is not how it works. cr0y posted:How in the hell does that work? It doesn't. The only way a pardon can be used as a get out of jail free card in a criminal trial is you present it as evidence why your case should be dismissed. The court then determines that it was an actually valid issued pardon, as opposed to some poo poo Trump scrawled on a cocktail napkin last week. There is an actual process to issuing a pardon. Trump skipped some of the preliminary investigative steps presidents had traditionally carried out, determining someone was who they said they were, and they actually deserved a pardon, and it wouldn't be a political liability, and so on; he didn't care about any of that. But an important step is still the actual promulgation, publicly announcing the pardon. If the court checks with the National Archives and they have no evidence any such pardon exists, then it doesn't. There is not a court in this country, even Trump appointees, that would accept that a supposed Trump pardon really was issued 20+ months ago purely on his say-so, without any actual records proving its provenance.
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Aug 10, 2022 00:47
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BiggerBoat posted:Thing that gets me about FBI raid is that these people defending Trump still don't the first single idea what was confiscated or what it involved. Nobody does. But, of course, Trump is automatically an innocent victim. No, the Trump family has confirmed it was about, and that they took boxes of, documents Trump took with him from the White House. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-fbi-agents-raided-his-florida-home-2022-08-08/
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Aug 10, 2022 16:37
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VitalSigns posted:Would an argument that classification doesn't apply to the president, because he's the authority that determines what is and isn't classified in the first place, succeed? Did he? Are we sure he didn't just leave on Jan 20 taking a ton of documents with him to Mar-a-Lago?
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Aug 12, 2022 02:25
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Uglycat posted:Don't senators have 'one weird trick' where they can read it into the record and lose an election 5 years later? Mike Gravel won his reelection 3 years later 
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Aug 12, 2022 03:22
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Quorum posted:Oh my god the Archives literally knew Trump was holding back because they numbered the boxes sequentially and some of them were missing Funny, that's verbatim one of the ways Andrew Torrez speculated NARA could have known certain boxes were missing from the set they collected this January on the Opening Arguments episode released today.
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Aug 13, 2022 00:03
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mobby_6kl posted:Is there really anything to suggest he was trying to sell this stuff? I wouldn't be surprised at all, of course, but seems most likely that he just took it all home because he's an idiot and thought he could just keep government documents. Why is he being investigated for Espionage Act crimes, then, rather than mere Records Act mishandling of classified information? Angry_Ed posted:Yeah I don't get why the press doesn't just say "lie". Is it a liability thing? They say it's accuracy; to accurately say "they're lying" requires knowing what another person knows, or has convinced themselves they believe. But over the last few years I've seen more and more outlets and reporters just outright state Trump is lying, especially about the 2020 election results. Fuschia tude fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 17:57
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mdemone posted:Talk about the right guy at the wrong loving time What's his schedule looking like in two years or so?
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Aug 14, 2022 04:28
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Uglycat posted:Did we already know there's a Jan 6 grand jury? I feel like that's new Uh, there's been Jan 6 grand juries from the very beginning. People have been getting arrested and criminally charged for January 6, 2021 since January 6, 2021. We don't know how many GJs there are now convened to investigate J6, or how long this particular one has been active. We knew they were subpoenaing Trump's legal counsel more than two weeks ago, and they were subpoenaing organizers of the J6 rallies two months ago, and they launched this pivot from purely footsoldiers and brawlers/property damagers to actual fundraisers and organizers of the events nearly five months ago.
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Aug 18, 2022 06:23
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mdemone posted:This is one reason I am convinced that the various states and federal agencies are at least broadly coordinating the roll-out of info. I know that's not what the DOJ typically does (or should do), but then again this is not a typical case. I'm sure any one indicting will trigger an avalanche of others, but I don't know that they're all waiting for the DOJ specifically to act first.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:03
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cr0y posted:I've been on these forums for nearly 20 years and I still don't know what this emoji means. Hmm, yes.
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Aug 19, 2022 22:09
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Deteriorata posted:Classification is irrelevant to the Espionage Act anyway. It doesn't matter if he declassified them. It's irrelevant to all three of the crimes listed in the search warrant. None of them require the materials in question to be classified. Murgos posted:Why is it ‘okay’ for Trump to be careless with documents like that just because maybe it’s not classified anymore? A technicality that gets the classification level removed doesn’t change the harm caused this is a complete red herring
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Aug 22, 2022 05:27
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NYT is reporting the feds recovered more than 300 classified documents from Mar-A-Lago so far this year. The first set from January included over 150 classified, TS/SCI, and SAP documents, including material from the FBI, NSA, and CIA. https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1561871242164068353 And the federal Grand Jury investigating Trump and J6 just issued another subpoena to NARA for more records from that time. The previous subpoena only covered documents they'd already turned over to the House committee. https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1561860320804478976
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Aug 24, 2022 00:07
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I cannot imagine any series of events where is tried, convicted, and sentenced, and then where Biden does not pardon him. He well might no longer be president by then. But not even Biden (or GOP presidents) can pardon state crimes. New York is unclear now, but the criminal investigation in Georgia is still moving forward and subpoenaing more co-conspirators.
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Aug 24, 2022 07:20
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Ynglaur posted:I wish we could force Fox to rename their channel. They're not a news channel. They're a channel full of talking heads who argue via assertion. There's no actual reporting, no analysis, no thinking. It's just buzzword-laden anger and people saying what they want to be true. Fox would have no problem arguing in court that they're a journalistic outfit like any other. Not when basically every newspaper has, and has always had, an "Opinion" or "Editorials" section. Fox runs straightforward reporting on the news during the day, marquee name talking head opinion shows at night. It's the same basic format as CNN and MSNBC, even if their opining is more often based in fact than FNN.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:23
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Tayter Swift posted:The affidavit is out. Haven't looked at it yet. I like how it's more than 50% redacted. Wasn't that why the government didn't want to release it in the first place, because the redactions would be absurd?
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Aug 26, 2022 18:00
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Main Paineframe posted:There's no actual indication that this is due to Trump. You mean besides the article two posts up detailing how the US wanted the materials back from Trump because they put spies at risk?
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Aug 27, 2022 17:10
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Angry_Ed posted:Stuff like item 6 here: And how many foreign agents have been official members of, or even entered without a membership to, Mar-A-Lago? https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1153778486760398848 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1171861594130866176
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Aug 27, 2022 18:59
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Fart Amplifier posted:This is a myth and makes no sense. Many innocent people accept pardons. Fart Amplifier posted:The dicta in that case is not precedent and does not change the fact that innocent people accept pardons without admitting guilt. Not to mention the hundreds of posthumous pardons. Corpses can't "legally admit" poo poo. It's completely incoherent gibberish that people have latched onto because the internet loves playing a game of telephone about legal minutiae.
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Aug 28, 2022 08:49
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Blind Duke posted:I get the feeling that the Hunters Laptop story was flimsier than propagandists wanted, but some influential weirdo was interested in it and wants it forced out there. Some kinda Rudy figure getting personally involved so they can crow about it personally. They worked on this, so clearly it must be the most important thing no matter how irrelevant it is. Other propagandists just have to try and jazz it up the best they can. That literally was Rudy.
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Aug 29, 2022 21:47
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