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steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Herstory Begins Now posted:

if you foresee the possibility of some serious domestic unrest, a guy who ran protestors over with an apc is a good bet that he's going to follow/issue orders to start shooting demonstrators if need be.

Normally I'd say puting a heavy handed brute in charge of dealing with public happenings would just galvanize opposition, but this is Russia, so lol

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steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Ynglaur posted:

If India and China want to be seen as global leaders, they need to start having opinions on questions such as "should one country genocide another country".

The problem is that sharing their real opinion might prove a huge impediment in getting others on board with their leadership role.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Deteriorata posted:

I've yet to see Ukraine operate that way.

They have yet to fight against dug in troops in a major city. Hopefully they won't have to and the Russians will run away as they have so far

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
The only reason why the takeover of Crimea was "bloodless" according to some harebrained pedantic criterion was because the Russians were killing Ukrainians by the hundreds, if not thousands, elsewhere, so they had no resources to resist on Crimean territory, lmao, what's going on

Also "bloodless" takeover as long as you don't count the ethnic cleansing

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Crow Buddy posted:

How dare you sir!?! They were doing that at least 200km from the other place and is therefore unrelated to that matter at hand.

Let's congratulate Mr. Hitler on his brilliant bloodless takeover of Vichy France, things could have gotten hairy, but in the end cooler heads prevailed!

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

If the Iranians are giving Russians weapons that can match or exceed HIMARs range, then the Ukrainians have a serious problem.

Russians already have plenty of weapons with longer range than HIMARS, HIMARS is no wunderwaffe; it's just both the weapons and the people using them are crap. The Iranian replacements are likely to be even worse.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Charlz Guybon posted:

Old fashioned gun AA systems like the gepard should work

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flakpanzer_Gepard

Shouldn't Ukraine have some Soviet Shilkas lying around? Those seen like they are an ideal match against crappy drones.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

I always laugh when the line "Americans are soft and will never respond to a suprise attack on American soil" gets trotted out. Historically it's like the one thing guaranteed to turn the American public into frothing mad revenge elementals dedicated to bombing something .

But that was before they got woke! *gets obliterated from 10.000 miles away by a barrage of missiles that each cost more than the GDP of my country*

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Original toblerones along properly prepared defensive lines were also anchored to a solid concrete bed so it wasn't possible to drag them away with no effort. The Wagner line looks like they they did some landscaping for a bike path more than anything

I'm sure these pyramids are fine for stuff like temporary checkpoints and other applications where you don't expect them to stop a tank offensive, but pretty much completely useless if you do.

steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Oct 22, 2022

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Ohtori Akio posted:

Discussion on this topic appears to assume that the Wagner line's threat model is an armor offensive. Why is this believed to be the case? I was under the impression that Ukraine is more likely to field artillery-backed infantry with armor in a supportive role. Comparisons to WW2-era massed armor offensives, and the defensive preparations against such, do not seem appropriate to me.

I agree with the point that these preparations will only be as good as their manning.

Their infantry fights from IFVs, so that's still tracked vehicles. What use whatsoever would concrete field obstacles be against non-mechanized infantry?

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

TheRat posted:

Building defensive structures next to the armed forces of your enemy seems like a fairly decent idea though?

I'm no tactician but maybe they should be more concerned about fortifying their lines at the front instead of building bollards around Vladivostok or whatever the current plan is.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

FishBulbia posted:

Negotiation is usually something you do during war to try to achieve your goals. For a while now people have used "negotiation" as a euphemism for surrender, both people calling for it and denouncing it. A good faith effort to resolve or at least stop the war, coupled with continued military aid, is a good policy.

How can you have good faith negotiations if only one side is interested?

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

FishBulbia posted:

Fight them until they are willing to come to the table, essentially how every war before 1945 was ended.
Well, that's the current plan.

But also it's important to note that when it comes to it, conditions must be imposed on Russia, rather than left to a mutual agreement, effectively only an unconditional surrender and conditions that are outside of Russia's power to break are credible, given the lack of trustworthiness the Russian government has due to its disregard for international agreements. So ultimately negotiating with Russia amounts to unilaterally dictating the peace to Russia.

steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 24, 2022

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Yeah, I had the same problem with Chromium, kept fiddling with extensions, nothing helped, then I noticed the browser somehow had the third party content blocking setting checked, disabling it solved the issue.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Ikasuhito posted:

It's a shame, but the weather is what it is.

After all you would have to be a brainless clod to launch a major offensive during the wet and muddy season!

"We already got through one muddy season earlier this year... What are the odds of there being another one?"

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
I love how the combined firepower of the Sevastopol naval base can't bring down a motorized canoe

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

It's an interesting echo of Millennium Challenge 2002, maybe lessons were learned.

Yeah, except that's an old and tired lie that originated due to interpersonal rivalries in the military and later was latched onto and propagandized as part of the war on "decadent and weak west" waged by, among others, Russian agents.

So pls don't spread it.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Well, for reference, in the USS Cole bombing the attackers also used a small fiberglass boat loaded with explosives, though the charge it carried was definitely substantially larger at 200-300 kilos of explosives. In achieving pretty much the best case scenario, it killed 17 people and caused the sip to be out of service for the next year. So theoretically the Ukrainian attacks could have done some damage, but given the much smaller scale of the drones, most likely not enough to sink or even cripple any substantial target.

E:FB, of course

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Flavahbeast posted:

Doing it during the day is real ballsy too, if it's real. Maybe all the tarmac guards have been requisitioned for use elsewhere?

Good chance they just let you right in, no questions asked, if you walk in confidently enough and and look like you have a purpose. "They aren't paying me enough to check every rear end in a top hat who shows up around here, it's probably one of the quartermaster's buddies coming to pick up contraband :effort:"

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

MikeC posted:



When I first heard about the Russians shutting down the shipping lane again, I thought it was no big deal since the wheat harvest was probably over and shipped out but apparently, the Ukrainians ship an asston of maize in the late fall and early winter? Where are they growing this stuff or does maize take a long time to process?

That's normal? Corn is harvested much later than wheat

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Fwiw I think people in Latin America or Africa are allowed to have dog poo poo opinions on events on European periphery that they can't affect anyway, it's not like the cast majority of Europeans, including those in power, have the ability to form good faith informed opinions about their countries either

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Scratch Monkey posted:

Ukraine 'preparing' for Russia to invade from north, top commander says

Either they've got some intel or this is a way to nudge the west to give them more stuff.

What's the land equivalent of a turkey shoot? :staredog:

There is no way they can expect their third rate replacements to achieve what their "elites" failed to do so decisively against a much weaker enemy, even Putin can't be so delusional.

And just in time to get bogged in mud if the timing is off and weather turns, again.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Sekenr posted:

Was there ever a situation when it was used that way? It reminds me more of Spec Ops: the line where it meant "we don't give a gently caress anymore"

On boats back when flags, semaphore and such were the only means of communication.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
It's almost certain none of them were pilots but rather mechanics, and other service personnel, guards etc.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

alex314 posted:

Seems weird, but expect more dumb stuff from Duda and company. It's election year in Poland, and they don't have much to brag about outside of helping Ukraine.

It isn't dumb

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Once again Germans are terrified that somebody is going to change the paradigm and they are going to be expected to chip in when everybody else does. Happened before with every other class of equipment, along with the impotent pleas of "but think of the logistics! Supply chain! Interoperability!"

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Donkringel posted:

Russia just had a leadership change.

Gerasimov has taken over for Surovikin.

Unsure if that is a good or a bad thing for Ukraine long term, although hopefully they can take advantage of the disorganization during the changeover.

It's definitely a good sign that instead of bringing in new people they keep cycling between the same two failures.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Knightsoul posted:

Just look around tv channels in the West for a few hours and you'll notice hypocrisy everywhere: constitutions are being thrown in the toilets and their articles ignored since this war has begun.
All because we need to fight this crazy proxy war against Russia. Because if Ukraine falls, the whole West will be eaten by the evil russians....right? RIGHT?!? :clegg:
For example, in the italian constitution (but I'm sure in other european constitution too) there are various articles who clearly state that, as a democratic country, we abhor war as a mean to regulate relations between nations and is absoloutely prohibited for my country to help foreign nations at war........
Do you think someone in the government asked what WE (THE PEOPLE!) think about this war in a distant eastern land from us and that no italian cares about? No way, 10 hours after the war started all jumped on the U.S. crazy train to "finally" gently caress Russia .
Doesn't matter if in the process the 4th most corrupt country in the world called "Ukraine" (U.N. classification just before the war) is completely WRECKED as a functioning country and thousands of lives are gone.
1 year is almost passed, the house gas is skyrocket to mad prices and I don't know if next month I'll be able to afford to pay the rent or buy gasoline for my car which I need to go to work.
Do you think the government use my hard earned money/taxes to better improve our domestic lives? noooooooooooo, let's spend billions of euros every 3 day so we can keep sending weapons east. :ughh:

Kicking the living poo poo out of Russia does significantly and materially improve my domestic life, thank you very much for your fake concern, though

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Countdown to Russia releasing reports of a destroyed UK armoured corps

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Explain how the delivery of tanks, no matter how insignificant, negatively affects the deliveries of other, more important systems.

Anyway, all these arguments are tired and misleading.
They don't have experienced units to use these tanks -> yeah, they need these tanks to start training said units
12 tanks is very little -> nobody is saying 12 tanks is the end of it.
They need ammunition more than tanks -> European logistics aren't so overwhelmed that sending item A would preclude sending item B also, the only limiting factor is political will.

Furthermore, Ukraine itself doesn't share the belief that they would be undone by another piece of kit in their inventory, quite the opposite as can be seen from their lobbying for the MBTs to be sent.

Had Western countries started trickling in MBTs 6 months ago, Ukraine today would be in possession of a functional Western armoured force. Same goes for fighter jets. Instead here we are clutching pearls that Ukraine isn't ready to receive this form of aid because we've deliberately hindered said readiness to receive it through navel gazing obstinate behaviour.

steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 14, 2023

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Alchenar posted:

This is not a useful conversation as long as 'strategic bombing' is being used as a term to cover everything from random area bombardment of urban housing to precision strikes on critical infrastructure. Nor is strategic bombing something that anyone seriously believes is a magic button that wins wars by itself.

If the ability to strike strategic targets deep behind the frontlines was not effective then the US, Russia and China wouldn't be in an arms race right now on long range precision strike capability, Iran and DPRK wouldn't be massing as many medium range cruise missiles as they can build, and Ukraine wouldn't be calling for ATACMs every chance they get.

Strategic bombing has a clear definition, which covers none of these things, except the hypothetical use of ICBMs for a nuclear strike.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Even if "OSINT" was actually saying Ukraine doesn't need more equipment (lol) the fact is that OSINT people are at best just some dorks playing analysts on the internet, their opinion has literally zero weight if it's contradicted by the armed forces, and vice versa, it only carries any credibility if it is supported by official statements.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
They have solved their infantry shortages by abducting African war orphans (orphaned in conflicts they finance) and fighting alongside Al Quaeda

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
It's gotten to the point where the German understanders are more annoying than Putin stans. Is the Süddeutsche Z. also a fake news spewing Anglo Murdoch rag now that it's embarrassing to Papa Scholz because of his newest innovation in the field of international self-humiliation?
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/ukraine-leopard-panzer-bundesregierung-1.5734901

Note that it makes outright allegations about linking German support to American provision of Abrams, not any supposed nebulous general phrasing, as was claimed earlier in a futile attempt to twist reality into a German friendly pretzel in defense of yet another totally reasonable German stance that's going to be walked back in a month after everybody will have browbeaten them into submission over their spineless idiocy.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Ynglaur posted:

Additional IFVs are valuable for the optics and firepower they provide, but don't forget they are also valuable for the armor itself. For those that didn't watch the video I posted the other day, a BMP-2M--which is probably less protected than a Bradley--took multiple anti-tank munitions to kill the crew and passengers. That was a single BMP, and tied up a dozen+ soldiers for ~30 minutes. Imagine if there were two of them.

Armored vehicles are not panaceas and don't prevent all casualties, but they let you cross the proverbial unforgiving minute with a good chance of getting close enough to the enemy line to break that line.

That said, tanks would also be great. I hope we send Ukraine lots of tanks. It's a shame that Germany's leadership has forsworn any kind of courageous leadership, but enough countries have not-Leopards I'm pretty sure the free world can get Ukraine enough tanks.

Bradley is better armoured (it's like twice as heavy as the BMP after all), but even more importantly, it has the optics, sensors and Comms suite to detect the enemy infantry and keep it at bay so it can't keep lobbing Panzerfausts at it.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

MikeC posted:

Also it can be easily argued that NATO membership only raises the barrier for reopening conflict and that should Putin become truly desperate enough to try again, this time it is Russia vs NATO for real without the one degree of separation that the current war provides. Once again, not a deal breaker but something that should be thought over very carefully.

Buffer states have been created and existed between empires for all of human history for this very reason, to keep those aspiring for power a buffer zone from which the game can be played with lower risks.

You are basically saying that what is going on in Ukraine this very second is not only fine, it's a desirable state of international order??? Because that's what buffer states imply

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Alchenar posted:

'Buffer state' theory is nonsense, they just give empires a reason to fight each other.

Indeed, I think it's pretty clear from the history of the cold war that the places that were most integrated into one of the opposing camps were least likely to turn into conflict hotspots between them and vice versa - wars broke out whenever the borders and assurances became fuzzy / insufficiently credible.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Were the Soviets capable of making high precision optical gear in general? Yes. Were they capable to manufacture it at scale to equip their tens of thousands of afvs, consistently and up to spec? That's a totally different question.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Cantorsdust posted:

I mean, this could be related to the Chinese balloon(s?) as well.

Why would Ukraine's top brass hold a meeting over a stray weather balloon at the other side of the world?

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steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
They've got a whole bunch of RPG models (single shot disposable launchers) that are nastier than RPG-7, with tandem warheads to deal with active defenses and stand of armour, but the main issue should be ATGMs, the most modern is the Kornet, which is at the base a late Soviet design, but only produced since the late 90s and updated in 2010s. It's been used a bunch by the Iraqi army, ISIS, Syria, Hezbollah... It was used against Iraqi Abrams tanks as well. Well, that means pretty much everybody has used it in the Middle East against everybody else because Russia sucks at export controls, so it should be a well known quantity to Western experts for a number of years.

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