War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

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Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Tuna-Fish posted:

It's the same with artillery. It's not that 155mm guns are that much better than the ones Ukraine already has (they are better, but a well-maintained soviet surplus 152mm gun with good ammo is close enough), but that there is simply not enough ammo supplies or production for Soviet heavy calibers outside Russia and China, so eventually the entire Ukrainian army needs to switch over to NATO calibers. Although on that front Russia is apparently helping supply Ukraine by leaving behind so much ammo when they rout.

Perun's recent video (the one with retired Lt General Ben Hodges) mentioned a factory or factories spinning up to produce Soviet-caliber ammunition in Bulgaria IIRC, so they might still be getting some more. Though I doubt it approaches the rate at which they're churning through shells.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2022 22:20

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 09:54

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

The problem with saying things like this

quote:

To make my perspective clear, I believe that Crimea should be part of Russia on the basis of self-determination.

is that polls are not an election. An election involves some amount of campaigning where people can be swayed to one side or another, where arguments or promises can be made, it's a big thing that people discuss as part of the regional/national consciousness, and then people can give their 'opinion' on election day knowing that it has actual weight. That's all very different from a poll. Just because some polls indicate a sentiment long before a potential election doesn't mean the vote will go the same way.

Sure, it's certainly possible that, had a free and fair election been eventually had in Crimea, they would've voted to join Russia. But it's also possible that such an election would've resulted in Crimea saying no thanks and sticking with Ukraine.

And now with Russia having invaded, we'll never know what would've been the outcome, and there can't be such an election in the future for at least a generation after Ukraine re-takes Crimea, assuming they're able to, given the impacts of the 'annexation'.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2022 21:58

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Koos Group posted:

But self-determination would absolutely have something to do with it because Crimea's would be violated

What the hell are you talking about? Stop carrying water for Russian propagandists.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, this has nothing to do with self-determination at this point.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2022 01:19

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Feliday Melody posted:

Is it the sheer amount of incompetence and corruption that just erodes every joint of it, or what?

Yes.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2022 09:59

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Maybe they "shot it down" with electronic countermeasures?

# ¿ Oct 18, 2022 20:09

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Rigel posted:

They haven't been getting cash from the usa. Our aid has been weapons and munitions, and we can keep "lending" it if congress won't let us give it away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/10/15/ukraine-us-europe-funding/

quote:

The United States has disbursed $8.5 billion in economic aid and will disburse another $4.5 billion by the end of the year, while U.S. officials say the European Union has pledged 11 billion euros but only disbursed about 3 billion in loans.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2022 02:15

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Fifty billion is a lot. A quick googling suggests Ukraine's military budget in 2021 was around six billion.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2022 21:01

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Edit:

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1583330108395638784

Why fly that low specifically right over the road, instead of right next to the road? Is it a radar thing, so that the helicopter will look like a car?

# ¿ Oct 21, 2022 16:34

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Pook Good Mook posted:

To add to other people, Iran and the US are selling arms (or really, mostly giving it away) to the parties involved. They are not parties.

This isn't really true, Iran has people on the ground within Ukraine doing drone training (whereas NATO allies are doing training in nearby allied countries).

# ¿ Oct 21, 2022 21:30

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

It's not exactly clear why it's considered okay for Iran to have people in Russia or Ukraine directly helping with the war effort, but if the US does the same thing that's a huge escalation.

Really I just object in principle to the idea that doing the same thing being done to you is an "escalation", like if you get punched out of nowhere you gotta just sit there and take it because fighting back would be "escalating". I think the restriction on HIMARS being used to attack military targets in Russia is stupid for the same reason.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2022 21:37

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Popete posted:

Iran sending small numbers of drone operators is not ok but it is not reason enough for the U.S. to act as world police and just bomb the poo poo out of them, likely killing civilians. That's the kind of thing we should be discouraging.

Fair, and yeah I agree attacking Iran would be dumb, but imo that Iran has drone instructors/operators there in occupied territory at least means it would not-escalation for Ukraine's allies to also send some instructors/operators to help with the war on their side.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2022 21:42

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

I mean every country puts intelligence officers everywhere even in peacetime. That's not the same thing at all.

As for official military helping with logistics within Ukraine, no I really doubt that's happening. So far they seem to be careful not to send any official military personnel into Ukraine itself.

Edit: I mean direct help, not, like, a military office in Kyiv helping to coordinate high level things.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2022 21:51

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

SaTaMaS posted:

uh, what?

Okay? Exactly what point do you think you're making here?

# ¿ Oct 22, 2022 21:47

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

That seems like dumb and bad optics.

I guess but I don't see the relation to Ukraine

Edit: dammit he changed it

# ¿ Oct 24, 2022 20:05

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Pook Good Mook posted:

It's almost certain that the US and/or "the West" has told Putin that they will withdraw most of the economic sanctions if Russia withdraws to its own borders

But everyone knows that there's zero chance of Russia withdrawing out of Crimea and the Donbas, so what's the point?

If Russia signals at some point they may be willing to fully withdraw in exchange for loosening sanctions, then sure, try diplomacy, but until then it just seems like a waste of effort and a distraction.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2022 20:24

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

FishBulbia posted:

European states individually are mostly depopulating or stagnating places with limited natural resources. IDK how them no longer being comparable to the productive end of literally continent spanning countries is supposed to shocking unless you were frozen in like 1912 and just woke up.

In a lot of more left leaning discussions on the internet, the framing is that the US is pants on head idiotic policy-wise compared to (Western) Europe. While this is frequently accurate, it somewhat conflicts with the US going from strength to strength economically: if the US keeps picking poo poo policies, why is it doing so much better in terms of productivity?

And talking about natural resources doesn't make much sense especially in this context, California isn't really a petro or mining state, its economy is driven more by tech and media, often tech and media that is successful internationally.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2022 05:10

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

So weird how having no regard for the lives of your own troops doesn't work so well over the long term when fighting a peer opponent. Almost like preserving soldiers' lives isn't just morally superior, but more effective as well.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2022 02:38

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

WarpedLichen posted:

I feel like anti imperialism as a concept is part of the current international order Putin is against. The view would be similar to WW2 Japan sentiments, where western powers used imperialism to gain power and then used their power to prevent any others from doing the same to challenge that power. Pulling up the ladder. So in essence, the west should let dictators in other regions go unchallenged because mounting any challenge would be hypocrisy.

That might make a certain amount of sense when looking at newly modernized Japan, but in this case Russia already did plenty of imperialism itself.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2022 19:00

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

The 'suicide' is obviously in comparison to drones that don't blow themselves up. But yeah at that point there's not a huge distinction between 'suicide drone' and 'slow missile'.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2022 20:43

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

quote:

Even surface-based unmanned, guided, long-range munitions should give the world's navies pause. Let's say we get the cost of them down to ~$25,000 USD. You could get 7,200 of those for the price of one modern US destroyer. Assuming you can manage the electronic environment, imagine a swarm of 1,000 of those things attacking a carrier battle group (US or Chinese, take your pick). I'm not sure the CBG comes out ahead in that exchange.

Clearly the solution is a swarm of somewhat larger and faster drones equipped with dual MP5's. Pew pew!

No but seriously, medium sized drones with even infantry caliber weapons seem like they would work? The drone missiles in question are slow and not particularly well-armored, right?

# ¿ Oct 30, 2022 02:03

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

/\/\/\ I was thinking more like a Bayraktar with a machine gun.

Franks Happy Place posted:

I assume this one:

https://twitter.com/JamWaterhouse/status/1586358395933970433?t=FRa1XT2js5D-YRW2RkU8MQ&s=19

I assumed they had just not seen it coming in the dead of night or something; but instead they saw it coming and shot at it, and just missed?

# ¿ Oct 30, 2022 08:47

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Weird. No guards near the actual choppers?

# ¿ Oct 31, 2022 23:02

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Defenestrategy posted:

I'd assune the war aims include ensuring future territorial soverignity. In which case putins continued hand on the wheel is a non starter no?

If Putin agreed to remove troops from all Ukrainian territory and the US was then able to provide a security guarantee/put bases on Ukrainian soil, that seems like it'd probably be good enough.

But of course the chances of Putin pulling fully out of Ukraine via negotiations are basically zero.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2022 10:11

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Kraftwerk posted:

Everything in the US military runs on JP8. It allows for one fuel type across all things whether it�s military jets, tanks, or AFVs.

Why do people keep saying this? Since the Ukraine invasion started I've looked at a bunch of US military land vehicles and most of them are diesels IIRC, including the Bradley. M109? Diesel. M113? Diesel. Maxxpro MRAP? Diesel. HIMARS? Diesel.

And for ones that haven't been given to Ukraine yet but might be, the Stryker's a diesel, so are the LAV and LATV.

I think the Abrams might be the only one I've seen that isn't a diesel.

edit: a quick googling suggests that the US Army's upcoming light tank will also run on diesel

Cicero fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jan 6, 2023

# ¿ Jan 6, 2023 22:58

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Sir John Falstaff posted:

Diesel engines can run on JP-8. The U.S. uses it for that purpose in deployed vehicles to simplify logistics. But, the diesel engines can also run on ordinary diesel.

Or, at least that's my understanding.

Interesting, thanks.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2023 00:40

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

mlmp08 posted:

-PDA announced totaling $2.85 bn in drawdown and $225 in foreign financing to encourage others to donate. What's a PDA?

Probably Presidential Drawdown Authority?

# ¿ Jan 7, 2023 05:14

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Ukraine has a lot of troops and comparatively little armor, so yes, I imagine more tanks will help. Ukraine certainly seems to think so.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2023 22:13

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

mlmp08 posted:

If the below is accurate, Abrams delivery is months to years away.

https://twitter.com/nickschifrin/status/1618013758974222336?s=46&t=LO8ZmCk8-OUrb88Mp9vsow

Yeah: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ort-to-ukraine/

quote:

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Great. And then, with that, let�s open it up to Q&A. We�ll turn it back over to you.

Q Hi, guys. A couple questions. One, why 31? Two, how long will it take to actually get the Abrams into Ukraine? Why so long? Apparently, it�s at least 12 months. And three, obviously, [senior administration official], you and [senior administration official] and even the Secretary in the last few days have all said that the Abrams is unsustainable to send to Ukraine. So, what changed? Thanks.

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Thanks, Nick. This is [senior administration official]. I�ll go ahead and take this one. So, the reason for 31 is because that is how many tanks would constitute a Ukrainian tank battalion. So, we are specifically meeting that requirement. So that�s the reason for the number.

And in terms of how long it will take, I don�t have a very precise number for you, but because this is a procurement under USAI, we�re talking months as opposed to weeks. And as with other capabilities, you�ve seen us do this before, if we do not have (inaudible) readily within U.S. stocks, then we go the procurement route to make sure that we can procure the right capability for Ukraine. And that is what we�re doing here with the Abrams.

In terms of sustainment, maintenance, training, these are all really important considerations. We will have the ability to put in place a very careful training program, but also a very careful program to be able to, you know, maintain and sustain these tanks, which do require a good deal � a good deal of assistance.

And I should mention also � this is kind of another level of detail on the procurement. In addition to the Abrams, we�re also procuring eight M88 Recovery Vehicles as part of this package. So, these are the vehicles that go with the Abrams to be able to, you know, provide recovery operations to make sure that the Ukrainians will be able to keep these Abrams up and running.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 21:35

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

According to CNBC the variant being shipped is the M1A1. That's not the M1A2 modern variant but that's still going to crush just about anything Russia could field. The problem is it's only 30 tanks, which isn't enough for the entire war. But still that's some big hardware.

I tried to find an underlying source for that and I think they maybe are just confused and think "M1A1" is the general designation for Abrams tanks. The official word is that they aren't saying exactly what model it is. Since they're procuring them with a process that's supposed to take months, I'd be pretty surprised if it was the old M1A1.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2023 04:57

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

I believe the designations is M1 Abrams is the original 80's and the A1 designation was the 90's upgrade, with the A2 as the modern super battle tank.

A1 production started in 1985, and beyond the baseline A2 there are successive upgrades SEPv1, SEPv2, SEPv3 (started rollout in 2020), and SEPv4 is currently under development.

But I think whoever wrote that CNBC article didn't know any of this and just said M1A1.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2023 10:29

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Charliegrs posted:

If I remember correctly, when the US Marines had tanks they were the older M1A2 variety (while the army had newer SEP3 varients). But the Marines ditched all their tanks, so maybe those are the ones going to Ukraine? Probably after the super secret DU armor gets removed.

I saw a comment somewhere saying those all got converted to be not-tanks, like bridge layers or something utility-oriented.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2023 21:57

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Laser weapons?

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/12/07/us-army-laser-stryker/

But not sure if they have enough range. Also IIRC laser weapons still have problems with weather.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2023 19:26

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Ynglaur posted:

You must be in the Navy. The Navy loves this idea.

The army is deploying laser Strykers literally this month.

Edit: god it sounds like something from Red Alert

# ¿ Jan 28, 2023 20:08

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

The sheer numbers of weapons systems the US military has deployed or in development at any one time is insane.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2023 20:26

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

There's a good chance Erdogan gets dumped this year, so it's possible to just wait.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 20:22

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-f16s-biden-says-today-us-wont-provide/ Biden is shutting down the F-16 chat, for now at least. Not too surprising, but also unlikely the last we’ve heard of it.

Saying that the US won't provide F-16's isn't the same thing as saying that they won't approve other countries transferring their own though.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 03:47

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

Do not expect them to vote out Erdogan despite insane inflation

IIRC recent opinion polls have him losing in the second round. Could always change of course.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 06:09

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Yeah the CLU's are useful even without the missile.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2023 22:55

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

I admit I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be more domestic backlash by this point in Russia, they really seem to be churning through new guys, and for zero or near-zero gains.

Like, isn't the narrative that mothers of soldiers pushed back on the war in Afghanistan, and that was with far fewer losses than here? I know Putin has a stranglehold on the media, but there's only so much you can suppress people's sons and husbands being killed.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2023 03:30

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 09:54

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

With the rise of small drones dropping grenades, is there the possibility of small man-portable radars or similar to detect those drones at an infantry squad level? Or is that kind of tech too hard to miniaturize?

I know there are handheld anti-drone weapons, but if you don't know the drone is there that might not help you, and usually in these videos the people being dropped on seem unaware.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2023 19:38

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

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