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Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
I feel like Blood Bowl gets a pretty bad rap in the OP - yeah, as a push-your-luck game it can be incredibly brutal, but it’s a game that still manages to maintain the sense of humor inherent in the old GW style, with terrible groanworthy puns, some of the more dynamic models GW makes, and a strong fan community in the form of the NAF, which kept the game alive and still organizes tournaments.

Side note, there are two ways to play: one-off matches where you don’t track injuries, and leagues, where you play a series of games against opponents. Setting up an in-person league can be really difficult, but it’s also incredibly rewarding - you get to develop a team, and if you can actually build the community and manage to keep people from getting heated at the gaming table, it’s an incredible experience. It just takes a lot of effort and buy-in from people.

There’s also variants available: Sevens (or 7s) is the main officially supported one, where teams are smaller, gameplay is faster, and the cruelty of dice is even more pronounced. You’ve also got Deathbowl (4 player Blood Bowl variant), Streetbowl (7s on a narrower pitch, different rules for fouling), and various unofficial teams, including the NAF-endorsed Slann team and various homebrew teams on the FUMBBL Secret League.

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Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Crackbone posted:

I’m neck deep in BB teams.


These are some great goblins. Especially liking the strategic use of Squigs for some of the goofier positionals. Are they GW, converted, 3rd party, or a mix? I’m on a similar tack, except it’s finishing up a larger sculpting project before sending them off to the caster. To crosspost:

Hedningen posted:

Time to live up to the dumb title I made for this thread and post some of the goblins I have rolled.











Slow progress on a full goblin Bloodbowl team - the whole thing is sculpted in greenstuff/apoxie sculpt blend, and right now, I have 10/12 (maybe 10/16) goblins at least armatured out, 2/2 trolls nearing completion, and 5/6 positionals at least somewhat recognizable. Debating if I should also add in Star Players (Nobbla, Scrappa, Bomber, Fungus, Black Gobbo, and Ripper) or if that will make things take too long for the overall project.

This is a revisit of an older project of mine that I decided I wanted to redo now that I’ve spent more time doing stuff, learning sculpting, and fulfilling various commissioned sculpts. The originals can be found earlier in the thread, and I’m pretty proud of how far my hard surface sculpting and detailing have come. Remember, practice helps you get better!

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
I really feel like Blood Bowl deserves a better write up, so here’s my take on trying to sell the game a little better. Still needs pictures and header images, but I hope it’s a little more positive in outlook and actually gets people excited to play the game?

Blood Bowl
Complexity: Medium
Randomness: Also medium
Variants: Numerous
Playtime: 2-3 hours on tabletop, 1-1.5 hours computer

Blood Bowl is Games Workshop’s long-running take on American Football, as mixed with rugby and the classic sense of humor that we all remember/long fawning internet articles are written about whenever questions about satire come up. Players take the role of coaches of their very own fantasy football team, in this case hitting both definitions of “fantasy” as elves, dwarves, orcs, and all other manner of fantasy species take to the pitch to play sports rather than murder one another, even if the sport itself is slightly-sanitized murder with passing and occasionally interacting with the ball.

The setting of the game is loosely built on Warhammer Fantasy’s Old World setting, albeit one where an orc accidentally discovered a temple to Nuffle, the resident deity of Blood Bowl, and it quickly swept through the Old World, replacing war as a favored passtime and shifting the long enmity between the various folks onto the pitch.

Mechanically, it’s a game played in two halves of 8 turns each. Each team turn, a coach can activate each of their players once, performing actions such as moving (essential), blocking (necessary to knock over opposition players), passing (getting the ball moving), fouling (always hilarious), and dodging away from opposing players. However, should your player fail an action (such as not picking up the ball, falling over while dodging or running, getting knocked over by a block, or fumbling a pass), it’s a turnover - you can’t do anything more on that turn, and play passes to your opponent’s team. The ostensible goal of the game is to score more touchdowns than your opponent, although some teams try to accomplish this with violence (hence the “Blood” part) while others try to actually run the ball down the field.

Blood Bowl can be frustrating at times - any action other than moving that you take incurs some degree of risk, and the turnover mechanic makes it feel really rough when that happens, but the key of the game is risk management. Turn ordering, looking at how your opponent is positioning their team so you can keep your ball carrier safe or what the best route of attack is, and accepting that the dice sometimes just don’t go your way is a fact of the game, but that’s also part of the appeal - there is absolutely skill involved in planning team turns, positioning, and preparing for how things can go badly, as well as how to deal with unexpected fortune. It also helps that risky plays can - and, at times, will - succeed. A key point to remember is that rolls of 1 always fail, rolls of 6 always succeed, and even with built-in rerolls, there’s always a chance something goes wrong - if you’re not down with managing that kind of risk, then Blood Bowl can feel random and unfair.

While it can be played in one-off games, Blood Bowl is best enjoyed with regular opponents. Setting up a league can be difficult because it calls for recurring commitment, but Goonhammer has a great guide here detailing some recommendations for setting one up. When you get a good league going, you get to see a team develop over the course of several matches, with players accumulating injuries (which are bad!), new skills (which are good), and earning cash for the team to hire players (also good). Players can - and will - get injured and even permanently die (currently on Ghoul #7 for my Shambling Undead team), but there are balancing mechanics to help avoid a total death spiral.

Blood Bowl is, also, decidedly silly in tone. Chainsaws are an accepted part of the game - even if technically ‘illegal’ by the rules. Orcidas, Bloodweiser, Khorne Flakes, and McMurtys are all acknowledge in-game as companies, some of whom sponsor games. Some notable figures include Sacred Commissioner Roze-el, Djimm Thorp, and L. Ron Elfman. Some famous players include Frank N. Stein, Anqi-Panqi, Glotl Stop, and Gregor Lukash, a number of which can be hired to temporarily play for your team.

Teams: There are currently 28 teams officially recognized by GW, with 1 additional team recognized by the NAF (more on them later!). Of these teams, 21 are available in the core rulebook, 3 are in their own issues of Spike! Magazine (or are in the collected Blood Bowl Almanacs), and 4 are in the free “Teams of Legend” pdf hosted on the Warhammer Community site. These teams are generally categorized according to “Tiers” - they’re a combination between how easy the team is to play, and how well they’ve historically been performing.
  • Tier 1 teams are generally pretty self-explanatory - they’re good, they have clearly-defined positional roles, and they may have some tricks associated with them, but they perform well right out of the gate. Currently, these are Amazon (S!15), Chaos Dwarf (ToL), Dark Elf (CRB), Dwarf (CRB), High Elf (ToL), Lizardmen (CRB), Norse (S!14), Shambling Undead (CRB), Skaven (CRB), Underworld Denizens (CRB), and Wood Elves (CRB).
  • Tier 2 teams are a bit trickier to play - they take a few more games to get some of their necessary starting skills, or they are more restricted in playstyle - rewarding (and just as strong as the Tier 1 teams), but harder to play. These include Black Orc (CRB), Chaos Chosen (CRB), Chaos Renegades (CRB), Elven Union (CRB), Human (CRB), Imperial Nobility (CRB), Khorne (S!13), Necromantic Horror (CRB), Nurgle (CRB), Old World Alliance (CRB), Orc (CRB), Tomb Kings (ToL), and Vampire (ToL).
  • Tier 3 teams are also known as Stunty teams. Do not expect to win without shenanigans. They are legitimately worse than the other teams, to the point where most tournaments have a separate award for best-performing Stunty team. These are all in the core rulebook, and are Goblin, Halfling, Ogre, and Snotlings.

What’s needed to play: Blood Bowl has a pretty easy start-up - there’s a boxed set for about 160 that comes with two full teams (Black Orcs and Imperial Nobility), a pitch, the core rulebook, all the necessary dice and templates, and a neat box. You can also just buy the rulebook, and build/convert/proxy your team, so long as each positional is marked clearly.

There are a ton of third-party teams out there, however, and that’s where a lot of the community shines! If you’re not planning on playing at one of Games Workshop’s stores, then there is a giant community of companies, sculptors, and others producing full Blood Bowl teams, whether you’d prefer 3d printable files, resin castings, or even some companies that still do old-school metal miniatures. Here’s a link to a document with a relatively up-to-date list of 3rd party teams, sorted by team!

So far, the following rules and resources are available from official sources:
    ]
  • Blood Bowl:The Official Rules: Has all the core rules needed to play the game. The current ruleset is the Second Season edition - there was a release back in 2016 derived from the community-maintained living rulebook, so if you don’t see a Passing stat, then you’re one edition back
  • Death Zone - the Ultimate Blood Bowl Companion: Gives a whole bunch of optional inducements like Mercenary players, special weather tables, assorted famous sideline staff, some Star Players, and the official rules for the Sevens variant.
  • Spike! Presents 2021 Almanac!: Collects Spike! Journal 11, 12, and 13, as well as rules for referees. This is where the Khorne rules are!
  • Spike! Presents 2022 Almanac!: Collects Spike! Journals 14 and 15, along with several new Star Players. This is where you’ll find the updated rules for Norse and Amazons.
  • Teams of Legend: Found here, this free PDF contains rules for the teams that have historically been a part of Blood Bowl, but which haven’t seen a new release or support for years. GW will occasionally do one of these teams as a Made to Order package
  • Blood Bowl Errata and Designer’s Commentary: Found here, this document details rule changes and clarifications. Some are terrible (such as the time they nerfed the Throw Team-Mate Cage Breaker, which has since been fixed) and others are good (increasing the cost of Hakflem and Morg).


Other Support:
There’s a few computer-only options out there, including
  • BB2: Currently running, still on an older ruleset so some teams are different (No Black Orcs, Imperial Nobility, Snotlings, Chaos Renegades, or Khorne teams), but still has a pretty thriving community.
  • BB3: Coming out in mid-February 2023 (supposedly), uses the updated ruleset.
  • FumBBL: Javascript-based in-browser Blood Bowl - found here, uses the current ruleset, but a bit graphically poo poo and harder to wrap your head around. There are some team guides available too!

The NAF is a player-run organization that kept Blood Bowl alive during the years when GW abandoned it. They run tournaments all over the world, maintain a database of coaches and official tournaments, and generally keep the game going. Membership is available on their website, which has the benefit of letting you vote in the elections, makes entry to NAF-run tournaments easier, lets them track your coach rating, and gets you a free gift each year (typically dice and a token).

Variants:
There are several notable variant versions of Blood Bowl that are both officially supported, as well as fan-made versions, rules for which can be found here.
  • Sevens: A fan-made quick-play variant made official in Death Zone, this variant uses smaller teams with fewer positionals and a slightly smaller pitch to play a sort of amateur Blood Bowl. It is ridiculously fun, plays much faster than a full game, and is an amazing teaching tool to get people started.
  • Street Bowl: A fan-made variant of Sevens, it uses the same team-building rules but is played on a narrower pitch with walls on the sides and cobblestones on the floor. It’s like Sevens, but places more emphasis on the violence and scrum, especially because the pitch is only 7 squares wide.
  • Beach Bowl: Another fan-made variant on Sevens, it’s a slightly different pitch again and also exists primarily to make a ton of Top Gun jokes.
  • Dungeon Bowl: Blood Bowl, but in a dungeon and with different teams. This is handled in its own boxed set (now with an expansion!) and while the core mechanics are mostly the same, the teams are instead sponsored by the various Colleges of Magic in the Old World. Coaches build out a dungeon, fill it with treasure chests which contain either a bomb or the ball (1-in-6 chance of finding the ball!), and then compete to get the first touchdown by bringing the ball to their opponent’s endzone. It’s a different take on Blood Bowl, and while I’ve never gotten too into it, it can be great fun.
  • Death Bowl: A fan-made variant, Death Bowl is notable in maximizing the scale of everything. Four coaches, four teams, two balls, and chaotic play. I’ve never played this variant, or even seen a pitch for it, but it exists.

Other Useful Bullshit
  • The Bonehead Podcast has some good team overviews, as well as footage of games and tournaments.
  • Goonhammer also has in-depth articles.
  • Blood Bowl Tactics has some good advice, both for the previous editions and the current one.
  • The Tackle Zone has some good guides. Of particular note are the Tackle Zone illustrations, which detail marking, screening, and assisting. These visual guides are incredibly useful for getting your head around the complex interactions between models in Blood Bowl.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Hihohe posted:

Not only that but getting some alternate heads and accessories for my Cawdor dudes



The rats having better air filtration than the actual dudes is peak Cawdor.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Blackmage Yapo posted:

Anybody have experience running a Blood Bowl 2020 league?

We've been going for a few seasons now but have started getting new players recently, which is great! The problem is everybody's teams are like 1500TV+ and it really sucks for new players to play up that much. We're trying to come up with good solutions that aren't just "everybody makes a new team"

Redraft between each season. That’s what it’s there for - it lets you continue an existing team with a few players, but also balances out the power scale a bit and ensures that new coaches don’t feel like they’re fighting uphill into a wall.

You can also make divisions if you run a set league schedule to help keep, say, an optimized bashing team from running roughshod over new players and generating the ol’ negative play experience.

I know one thing we do is a coach mentorship system: an experienced coach gets to help out a new one to help keep things interesting and see how they develop. We also try to have league Star Players available for general use and help newer coaches understand how to use them.

Just in playoffs later today: facing down undefeated Skaven with my Shambling Undead team. Exactly 220k difference, so I suspect Wilhelm or Bryce will get a chance to cause problems on purpose, depending on how I want to approach it.

Speaking of Star Players: Bryce in a league setting is downright mean, especially against anything AV8+ and expensive. I think chainsaws get a bad rap because of how inconsistent they can be, but mathematically, they work out similarly to conventional blocks in late-league, skill-heavy players. Nothing like dropping a Blodge/Wrestle/Sidestep piece and removing it from existence.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Bird_App_Refugee posted:


Assembled my first Blood Bowl team. Can’t wait to play tabletop for the first time.

Loving it.

Also great work with the base rim color coding. Been doing so myself for the past few seasons, and I’m hoping to convince the rest of my league to at least give it a shot.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Floppychop posted:

I'm trying to convince my local players to do the same as well, but it's been an uphill battle. It's especially frustrating when they're using a 3rd party team and positionals aren't easy to tell apart.

100% agreed there. I kinda feel like I need to set the example, as I championed using 3rd party teams and sculpt my own team every other season, so having those cues available for everyone just makes life easier. You then don’t need to remember which helmet type is a Blitzer, which slightly more armored guy is what, and so forth.

Worst offenders I’ve seen are Norse teams and generic Elf teams where people don’t paint to distinguish different models. Norse is the worst for that, though - nothing feels quite as bad as figuring out your defense required a player to not use Jump Up or that the random dude is S4.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

GreenBuckanneer posted:

Geez, I just ONLY want goblins, but it seems in all of them have some smattering of ogres or trolls or rats or whatever else. Even the official stuff has some of the star players that are other races too. For official stuff, this one was the one I was initially interested in: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Bowl-Crud-Creek-Nosepickers-Team-2020

I see this which might be a buy: https://pungaminiatures.com/savageorcs/tproduct/331875464-708000641041-sons-of-anubis

Tomb kings were my first pick, because skeletons > other undead, but those aren't in stock officially.

I suppose I could suck it up and go skaven instead, but they weren't my first pick, and I don't really like zombies or vampires.

Okay, so I have a few questions to hopefully clarify things.

First off, the team you listed as being interested in are Snotlings, who are different from goblins - fewer secret weapons, but similar shenanigans and stupidity. They are absolutely not beginner-friendly, because their main gameplay style is “sneak on extra linemen because everything is crappy” and taking advantage of inducements and Star Players by being incredibly low cost. They’re another tier 3/Stunty team, and they can been frustrating to play. On the plus side, all you’d need are the trolls to add to a Snotling box and it can be fairly complete.

Secondly, are you going to be doing a regular league with tracked play, or one-off games? My recommendations change based on that, as there’s different stuff that you might want to have to better enjoy the game.

For examples of play, try to check out some of the games recorded by the Bonehead Podcast - they’re on Youtube and can give you an idea of what the game looks like, and I know that Snotlings and Skaven were both played in at least one season.

If you’re looking for goblins and want some metal miniatures, I just finished sculpting a team that is heading off to the caster, with all secret weapons, 12 goblins, and 2 trolls. I was gonna do an actual effort post in here with everything, but I have to get some test casts done anyways and might put them up in SA Mart.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

GreenBuckanneer posted:

I'll have to sleep on it, but, for the other question, it's mostly going to be one-offs and once the friend group is more confident it might move into regular league. It was described to me to be somewhat similar to something like Crusade; the units can get access to later abilities, you get some cash to include some stronger "star players" in later, and so on.

Okay, that makes some sense. I hope I can fill in some gaps here.

If you’re looking to just have a stable team, the Tomb Kings might be your best bet - they’re tricky, but you’ll have four big bashy mummies, and what everyone does is pretty clear. As an added bonus, undead teams have the least use for Stars much of the time, so you don’t need to really pick anything up aside from the team, and nothing teaches positioning and assists better than Tomb Kings, because you’ll win or lose based off of getting your pieces in place and there’s not a lot of room for error.

Otherwise, for ease of understanding, Skaven are a great choice. They have the best thrower in the game right out of the gate, Gutter Runners are feared the world over, and your Blitzers are pretty cool. Plus, if you really want, you can add a Rat Ogre and injure your own players in addition to your opponent’s!

As for the playstyle: calling league play similar to Crusade is vaguely right? How it works is each team gets cash to build their team at the start, with 1,000,000 gold being the baseline standard. After your starting roster is set, players accumulate SPP by doing stuff in a game: causing casualties by blocking, successfully throwing passes, or scoring touchdowns are the most common ways, along with the randomly-selected end of game MVP for each team. You can then spend that SPP for skills on the player, with certain categories being more expensive based on the player’s type. If a player gets injured during a game, that also sticks during league play - it can be as simple as missing the remainder of the game they were injured, loss of stats, and even death.

You also get cash added to your treasury after a game, win or loss, which you can use to hire additional (or replacement, if a player gets injured or killed) players, staff, or rerolls.

Star Players come in only when there’s a difference in team value, and they aren’t even necessary (although they can be pretty good) if you take other inducements to even up the value between the teams. They’re nice to have, but if your group is open to proxies, consider just having a marker to represent them when you’re starting.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Annointed posted:

For bloodbowl I noticed that people reset teams all the time in streams and online. Generally speaking, is it just not worth trying to salvage a team where multiple players are down and no income?

Depends on what you’re playing. If it’s a physical, in person league, there may not be the option to do so. The new winnings system in 2020 also make it so you aren’t stuck making almost nothing most of the time, and your average online player will have a ton more games than most in-person leagues.

Online is absolutely similar to how league play works, but it’s different in some key ways: for one, playing face-to-face with a human opponent and a physical, painted team is enough of a time investment that recreating teams isn’t as much of a thing. Additionally, you’re playing with a much more limited pool of opponents, unlike a lot of folks doing public matchmaking.

Finally, your league commissioner may not allow resetting the team to fresh, depending on the season timing? It’s never come up in mine, which may be abnormal, so anyone else with in-person league experience should feel free to chime in.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
Once again my strategy of having a terrible computer for anything other than digital sculpting has paid off.

Makes me glad I can play in person, at least.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.


I just got pictures of the first casts of my (probably ill-informed vanity) project of sculpting an entire goblin Blood Bowl team. So looking forward to getting to paint these nerds up, as well as probably selling some sets to cover my costs.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Professor Shark posted:

Is this a custom set? How much did they run you?

Long hours of sculpting, then $240 for the mold mastering and about $20 in metal and labor for each full team that gets cast up. For my first generic run to see if people like them, I’m charging $60 so that I can pay off molding and casting costs and get a professional painter to do my box art.

If I end up running these as a Kickstarter, much more expensive because each subset will need a production mold. Likely gonna be in sets of four, so that’s at least 5 molds, plus labor. And all these costs are counting my sculpting time as free.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Blackmage Yapo posted:

I'm Facebook friends with a dude who still posts about Guildball.

At this point I'm only buying secondary market stuff, a full GW skaven team is currently $132 and that is just absurd.

Plus there’s so many great options out there! Hell, even the old GW metal models can end up being cheaper - I have a (mostly full) team of old-school metal humans still made of lead. I feel like I should grab some halflings and the Jes Goodwin ogre for completeness sake and to start painting a truly old-style team.

Pay no mind to my status as one of the secondary market sculptors, because that clearly has no bearing on this opinion.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Blackmage Yapo posted:

Oh dope, which one? Always on the look out for good teams.


Releasing a metal goblin team later this year via KS, most likely. Though I’m trying to avoid doing so, kinda - still not confident in my ability to release something people want.


Inked models.


Goblins on bases.





Partially-painted troll.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
Here’s my thoughts on the matter, as someone who does most of her gaming and hobby stuff on and around Blood Bowl: part of the reason it works and leads to evangelization after good league play is because it requires getting a critical mass of buy-in and people willing to regularly play it.

Blood Bowl, when everyone has matched expectations and is on the same page with a league/tournament/etc is fun because you need a solid group for it, not from the tightness of the ruleset or the balance. If you don’t have that social element or don’t have a commissioner able to manage personality issues or step in when problems start, then leagues will fall apart or be lovely. It’s not great design - and honestly is kinda unintentional - but it’s good when it works.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

st

As opposed to other, more modern board games where a lovely group will not affect your experience at all? Huh? Is Adeptus Titanicus still a good game if your oppenent calls you a slur and spits in your face? What do you mean??? I think Blood Bowl's mechanics are good enough on their own.

Like I literally play non-campaign games of blood bowl all the time. I get shitslapped and I stomp. It's a good game. I actively play blood bowl with randos on FUMBBL a few times a week with no campaign mechanics for shits and giggles.

That’s a bit more hostile of a response than I expected, but broadly: it’s a game that thrives on getting a cohesive group together who are willing to play a season’s worth of games, and a lot of the enjoyment can come from having a good group of people. Obviously a lovely group can make every game bad, but having a mismatched group or getting zero help when you’re dropped in the deep end in a Blood Bowl league will have a greater effect on the enjoyment people get out of it than in one-off games.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
Won a league game of Blood Bowl today with my goblins, thanks in part to the most consistently good chainsaw I’ve ever had - no kickback, managed to MNG their thrower on Turn 1, and lasted the entire half despite getting dropped a couple of times. Rough game for all involved, and ending with only one dead goblin is a success, as there were but two elves on the pitch at the end of the game.

I credit all success to my team’s mascot, the Kosmogrot.




Still on a cork platform to finish up, but a helpful little git despite lacking paint so far.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

GreenBuckanneer posted:



First time playing BB with my skaven. Man the rulebook is convoluted and I still don't understand much of how to play the game but at least I got a touchdown by passing my gutter runner the ball and did two successful Go For Its

Your Skaven look quite nice! Also, yeah, give ball to Gutter Runner and score is a classic Skaven play.

Had two games over the weekend with my goblins in my local league, and boy, it was exciting. One loss versus Vampires, one draw versus Humans, both of which were redrafted teams up about 140k over my gobs.

Notable events include my ‘ooligan permanently killing a 250k vampire through fouling (Regen failure, apothecary failure) and getting two other fouling casualties that were regenerated before he was finally caught and kicked out, managing a final turn TTM touchdown with my Doom Diver to tie up the score vs the Human team, and a simultaneous casualty and KO via Multiple Block, which was rolled randomly on one of my trolls and used to amazing effect on the LOS.

May see about trying the Biased Ref/Fink da Fixer combo - can’t be thrown out for arguing the call, plus it succeeds on a 4+. Biased Ref was already huge in keeping my Secret Weapons on the pitch during my 2nd game, so I think making it even more reliable might be a good plan. Goblins are so strange to play with, but when they work well, you can really pull off some amazing bullshit.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Blackmage Yapo posted:

Is it considered bad form to redraft a winning team for Blood Bowl leagues? Should I just retire them? This is my first real season of 2020 and redrafting and I am not good at it.

Depends on your league and how you end up redrafting. What’s the salary cap for returning teams versus new ones, and is your league doing the “Current champion gets a free reroll” option? If you feel like it’s too much of an advantage, don’t redraft, or use this as an opportunity to try a weirder build (pass-centric Renegades, bashing-focused Wood Elf, or anything involving Shadowing and Diving Tackle). Talk to people, see how everyone feels, and then decide.

I’m likely gonna redraft my goblins no matter how well they do this season, because I’m trying to get at least one of them to 100 career fouls.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
New Blood Bowl FAQ is up. Major changes include revising how Animal Savagery interacts with the Blitz kickoff event, clarifying use of rerolls, and powerslamming Goblins into the dumpster by nerfing pretty much every trick they have.

To be more specific: Bombs have lost Mighty Blow, a bomb that knocks down the bombardier now causes a turnover, Sneaky Git no longer allows moving after fouling, Kickback causes turnovers, and the cost of Bomber Dribblesnot has somehow been left alone completely.

Also, due to poor wording, activating a chainsaw player and breaking armor (anyone’s armor, mind you) now causes a turnover.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Major Isoor posted:

Oh wow, hahaha - maybe they need to bring out a post-FAQ FAQ? :v: Sounds like a mess!
Out of curiosity though, what's the change with Animal Savagery? Assuming someone can recall off the top of their head - no big deal if not, as I only play Blood Bowl 2 at this stage, not tabletop.

The change is that, on a Blitz kickoff event, it would end if any players on your team were knocked over, meaning a failed Animal Savagery (which was changed to be “if the roll is failed to activate, Knock Down an adjacent friendly player and then do your activation”, which means it’s a reliable player if you can feed them less useful teammates) action would result in an immediate end to the Blitz event, making it far riskier to activate any of those players. Vampires especially were hurt by that interpretation. So they fixed the uselessness of the Blitz kickoff event for vampires, which is really great.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Major Isoor posted:

Ahhh, right OK - interesting! Thanks for that tidbit

Yeah, there are some fun/weird interactions in the rules. I’m still proud of getting an official clarification on the timing between Dodge and Shadowing, because figuring out that the Shadowing move technically occurs prior to the Dodge roll based off of the rules text was great and I’m sad that they changed it.

At least my goblins got nerfed when they were at the top of their game. Pour one out for lovely Dave, who can no longer perform all the fouls.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Professor Shark posted:

Help me I looked at that issue of WD someone posted and now I’m thinking about a vintage, all metal Chaos Killteam

Vintage all-metal teams for GW skirmish is the way to go.

Currently finishing stripping some 2e Blood Bowl humans (by Mark Copplestone, so before the unified design skills of Gary Morley) for an incredibly vintage team. Gonna try my hand at the old Bright Crusaders paint scheme because I played my goblins last season and had an order of magnitude more fouls than all other teams in the league, so playing as the overly serious, never-foul-or-even-bend-the-rules pious idiots seems like an ideal next step.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

fallingdownjoe posted:

Played some practice games for my Blood Bowl World Cup team yesterday - really pleased that I made some late changes and went for the 13-man roster rather than an additional reroll. Had been a bit nervous, but now feeling a lot more relaxed to play silly dice games in Spain for three days!

Awesome. Enjoy Alicante!

What team are you bringing to the World Cup? Been playing some games in the ruleset just to figure out how to manage Imperial Nobility.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Lucinice posted:

You know where I can get some chorfs? I wanna play chorfs.

Fabelzel does amazing work for Big Hat chorfs.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
Thinking of doing some comparisons between Blood Bowl league management software. Tourplay is probably the best one I’ve used so far, at least as far as automatic tracking of everything and ease of setup for participants, but it costs money which is a definite negative point for some folks.

Anyone have any management software or sites that they use? Right now, I see break.tackle is under development, OBBLM is a good working option that the NAF recommends, and I’m sure there’s other stuff out there that I’m not aware of.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
You can also try playing Goblins, where the goal is figuring out the stupidest possible ways to achieve victory.

Although they were pretty badly hit by the last FAQ/Errata (Sneaky Git nerf made sense for how oppressive fouling could get, bomb fixing went a bit too far when increasing the cost of the most egregious Stars providing bomb issues could help), I still managed 4th in my previous league season thanks to fouls. Season ended when my ‘ooligan, lovely Dave, managed to avoid getting eaten by a troll (re-rolled Always Hungry!) and was then immediately tossed into the crowd.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Floppychop posted:

This last errata makes me think that someone at GW was personally slighted by a goblin at one point.

Part of me respects someone hating goblins that much. Like, even pre-nerfing they had the lowest win percentage, but drat. It was even worse before they did some corrections, because for a brief time, any armor break with a chainsaw would cause a turnover.

The Sneaky Git change makes sense just for how great fouling is in 2020, and also because every team could do horrifying, nearly unstoppable removal via fouling and then retreat their fouler immediately to protect them. Still, goblins - and only goblins - should be able to use the original Sneaky Git rule.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
I had a goblin team lose 0-5 in playoffs thanks to the dice absolutely forsaking me. It was hilarious.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.
Blitz Bowl is absolutely a better-designed game in terms of avoiding traps and maintaining balance. At the same time, it’s not going to scratch the same gameplay itch for me like Blood Bowl does in either well-run leagues or NAF tournaments.

I think Guild Ball is an interesting comparison - it’s a game that didn’t reach a solved state so much as it had a steep curve that prioritized player skill (or so I’m led to believe - I am not a Guild Ball player beyond a few demo games) to the point where winning could feel completely out of reach for newer players until they got a handle on things. I’d love if someone with more experience could comment on that.

One thing I’ve started trying to play with these days are Control teams - teams like Imperial Nobility, Khemri, and Nurgle who aim to control the pitch in a way that’s not just bashing. Yeah, Nurgle has great bash, but they really excel at the denial and positioning game, as do Nobility with their starting skills and “expected” playstyle. I’m really liking Nobility so far, at least in terms of making me really, really think about how to position everyone, and the hilariously awful linemen really cinch the deal - why they have 4+ AG is gonna confuse me forever.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Major Isoor posted:

Hey, sorry to distract from the current convo, (but to be more on-topic, yes blast templates are very lame) however I'm just wondering if I could get some input on a team to bring into a local BB2 league's final season. I was originally confident I would go for my orcs, but they copped a lot of injuries right at the end of their season, so I'm not 100% anymore. (Plus a black orc died, so I have a fresh one)

Anyway, here are the teams in case someone could spare a moment to help tip me off the fence:

The Twenty Minuters, my Chaos Dwarf team:


Or Cafe de Isengard, my Orc team:


Now, I'm not 100% certain of what I'll face, but it'll doubtless include a solid Chaos team, one of those undead teams that always look the same to me (sorry Leperflesh :v:), a skaven team, probably an orc team or maybe two, maybe another chaos dwarf team, plus 1-2 elf teams. So a fair assortment overall.

I'm very torn. I feel Chaos Dwarves would be the safer pick, and the centaurs might make it the best pick against the skaven team. But I dunno, they're definitely slower to progress than the orcs, so I may end up being outpaced in most match-ups

I’d agree the Chaos Dwarfs would be the ‘safer’ pick, but the Orcs give you more movement overall. How many games in the season? Any opportunities to recycle some of your more injured players? That would tip me to the orcs - the big thing I see here is having better mobility along with the hitting power.

You’re also a bit more predictable with the Chorfs, I guess? Mino either has to be in contact or your blitz, which limits some of your positioning, and while all that Tackle/Guard is appealing versus Skaven and Elf Bullshit, I like the look of the Orcs.

On a similar note, I am now 5-0-0 this season with my Imperial Nobility, and I finally feel like I’m getting the hang of playing them. Lost a Bodyguard last game unfortunately, but my Ogre is on the way to getting his first skill and both Blitzers have turned out nicely (Dodge/Tackle and Dodge/Pro so far). Decided to random Passing on a Thrower and ended up with Dump Off, which I think will be an entertaining option for even more frustrating defensive gimmicks.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Squibsy posted:

5-0-0 with any team is not 'getting the hang of them' status lol

Unless your opponents are all utterly dreadful I guess :agesilaus:

They’re pretty good players overall, and matchups weren’t awful in most cases (Shambling Undead, Redrafted Chaos with a Block/Claw/Pro Minotaur, Ogre, Shambling Undead, and NuAmazon) but it’s a matter of understanding how the team runs, I guess? Knowing how to adjust to situations without taking too long to think about it, optimizing player placement for shenanigans, and having a good idea of how to perform on offense and defense is what I consider to be “getting the hang of” - Nobility make a ton of sense on defense thanks to being a remarkably good defensive team in the early and mid-season, but figuring out their offense has taken me a while because while a slow advance towards a breakaway is nice, I just don’t really have how to so so internalized like I would with goblins. Most of the above have been 1-0 victories, a couple of 2-0 wins, and a single 2-1 where dice were unfortunate for me.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

wtf

did they hire the loving perry brothers again, this is 2001 orc plastic shelf tier

not really a dealbreaker for me that was the horrible, horrible 70/30 rules

The Perry Brothers are loving legends, what the gently caress are you even talking about?

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

AndyElusive posted:

Answer the man.

Answer the lady, in fact, but the point stands.

Because I need to contribute more, I sculpted a full Nurgle team for Blood Bowl during October. Full team can be viewed here but I’m most proud of these two.


The Heisman Rotter


Slug Rotbeast

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

IncredibleIgloo posted:

This is going to be super useful for those not wanting to rebase their old WHFB troops:

https://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/square/2448-hollow-black-plastic-bases-square-25-mm.html

Just support any company other than them - their business practices are kinda lovely.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Crackbone posted:

I like the Gnome sculpts in general, but the total lack of BB styling puts me off - most teams have some sort of "I'm playing a sport" kit on them.

But they’re all in kit?

Look closer: most of them have the standard single-spike bracer/glove that’s part of Blood Bowl equipment, they’ve got shoulder armor on most models (plus the occasional thigh protectors), there’s straps around the pointy shoes to make them look like heavier-if-whimsical boots, and they all have knee pads. Yeah, it’s not super-visible, but the design is there if you look.

From an artistic criticism, they could have been made to stand out better, but they’re clearly wearing kit that matches with the game when you look. I think it’s the paintjob that’s causing most of the issue here.

Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Crackbone posted:

I’ll be damned, you’re right. Crazy

It took me a bit to catch that, so I wonder how intentional that is - the athletic equipment blends into the clothing and aesthetic in a way that might be meant to subtly reinforce the “trickster” elements of the team.

I have no proof of this, but I’m fairly certain that the top-level design bible for any Blood Bowl models requires a degree of clear athletic elements - such as the redesign of the modern Jordell Freshbreeze with his super-obvious Air Jordells - that a lot of the 3rd-party designers haven’t quite caught on to, and it’s one of the major charms of the line. There’s a clear idea and visual language, and they’re at the point where they can play with it.

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Hedningen
May 4, 2013

Enough sideburns to last a lifetime.

Robert Facepalmer posted:

I love drama and I love his Instagram feed so much.

He is the main dude at Spectre and of course there was some kind of drama between the second and third editions (third is the current) that lead to 3 being a different system from the previous two. He was also involved with planning and apparently sculpting all the figures for a January 6th game that I have heard gently caress all about since so who knows what the deal on that is. I have asked around about what happened and nobody remembers him or they said that he 'seemed nice, but just kinda left one day' (or they know and don't want to say what went down).

Shine on, crazy diamond.
Wow, yeah, that is a lot of complaints. On pretty much every post. Some nice sculpts, too.

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