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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)
 
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jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Russian air force being active is interesting. I remember seeing someone else reporting the same too, a few days ago.

Does Ukraine not have enough suitable anti-air? Have the Russians managed to hit their anti-air platforms with drones or something enough times that Ukraine has to be a bit wary with them? Or is Russia just taking more risks, hoping to get the attack done? Or is Ukraine saving their BUKs and Stingers and stuff for later?

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jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Butterfly Valley posted:

??? It's supremely defensible, given the only route in is the 5km narrow Perekop isthmus, unless they want to make an extremely risky attempt at crossing the Syvash marshlands. Every assault has resulted in disproportionately high casualties for the attacking force. It would be reverse Bakhmut. Makes much more sense to get to the post-2014 border and blow the poo poo out of the Kerch bridge and just wait, although if/when that happens it's going to result in some extremely distressing humanitarian consequences.

I'm not sure about the humanitarian consequences tbh. Surely Ukraine would allow all the civilians to just leave? And Crimea shouldn't be running out of water or food either, as it can be resupplied by ship (and Ukraine doesn't need to sink civilian ships)? The water supply canal cutoff thing from mainland Ukraine is about water used for agriculture, not normal drinking water.

Of course Putin can be expected to do things like order every civilian food ship to also have various military supplies as 50% of its contents, but still

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Wait, Girkin hasn't really criticised Putin directly before has he... and this seems quite harsh as well?

How the hell is he still alive? I mean I get it if all he's doing is criticising Shoigu, Prigozhin etc; but this? :psyduck:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

zone posted:

Given the sort of rumblings among ultranationalists such as Girkin these days I think the home team (specifically the FSB, whose mouthpiece Girkin is) have begun running out of patience with Putler's follies.

Girkin turning on Putin so dramatically was quite surprising to me. It seems that this kind of schism in the upper leadership of Russia can't be good (for Russia) in any way.

Previously Putin hasn't seemed to like such strong criticism at all, so maybe Girkin (and/or his enablers) will fall out of a window soon? But I'm thinking, if Girkin says these things now openly, that must be just the tip of the iceberg, because he's just an FSB worker as you say... so, does Putin now have to oppose the FSB? What's going on here, are they gonna get in a "fight"?

Or will FSB succeed in their campaign of criticism, and force Putin to do... what exactly do FSB want anyway? Full wartime economy? More fascism? Nukes?

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Set posted:

I wish to note that as this article is a few months old, some of the numbers mentioned in the article are quite outdated. I also wish to note that the first two video interviews are in English, so if you want to hear what they have to say you can click through into the article to have a listen, but as usual I have also translated and written short descriptions of their interviews if you prefer reading.

All the examples in this story are of someone who was able to come to Finland because they were an IT worker for whom it was reasonably easy to find a job in Finland. Then they got a two-year residency permit which can also include bringing one's family. This kind of thing seems to be the best option for these people to get out of Russia.

As usual, ordinary people such as those who don't have the language skills or the IT nerd education or the money will have a much harder time of it. Not to mention, I imagine most people would rather not leave their country in the first place, as that's obviously a massive thing to do.

Putin has hosed things up for so many Russians, it's just depressing.

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Icochet posted:

Finland going solo was pretty spineless but just looking at a map Finland getting in does remove some of the urgency for Sweden

Eh, in the official NATO process there isn't any "we'll join but only if this other country also joins" type of application. Finland & Sweden made their applications at the same time but they were separate applications. The Finnish president remarked at one point that it's kinda awkward, since if Turkey now approves Finland but not Sweden (as has happened), what is Finland meant to do, withdraw their application?

Anyway, just gotta wait for Erdogan now I guess... it's all on him imo

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Karate Bastard posted:

Antti Kaikkonen smirks to the fourth wall and starts powering up

https://twitter.com/anttikaikkonen/status/1641753406418059264

(Text: "Friday"; he says eteenpäin which means forward)

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost


The friendly Nato people are prepared :finland:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
Finnish PM Sanna Marin, who just lost an election a few days ago (her party was third), says she will step down as party leader in September. Article (in Finnish)

Quote: "SDP Chairperson Sanna Marin does not intend to continue leading the party after the September party conference."

Meanwhile elsewhere in Europe: "Stoltenberg's mission as secretary general was extended for another four-year term, meaning that he was to lead NATO until September 30, 2022.[3] However, due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022, his term was extended further by another year.[4]"

:thunk:

:haw:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

shadow puppet of a posted:

Should really rename the thing "Vlad Putin's Expanded, Stronger NATO Alliance"

Putin's own alliance thingy should be called "I Can't Believe It's Not NATO"

Except it effectively collapsed already. So I kinda can :haw:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Budzilla posted:

He knows what will be waiting for him when he goes back to Russia and he decides to jeopardise it all to buy some discount cigarettes? Am I missing something here or is he that loving stupid?

I guess some people just don't know what a "border" is

Guy is Russian so you'd think he has some first-hand knowledge of actual borders... maybe he thought all of EU is completely 100% borderless inside? :shrug:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

Finland is over 2%. Which shouldn't surprise anyone, considering.

Yep, now it is. But that's very recent:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

armpit_enjoyer posted:

Interview aside, god drat if i can tell what emotion that smile is trying to communicate.

Expected to smile right now in this situation, but doesn’t feel like smiling and is also Finnish, but trying to do the smile anyway since he’s a diplomat

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Nelson Mandingo posted:

People genuinely don't understand how powerful the US military really is after it's reformations in the 80's. There have been a lot of military stomps throughout history but it always came with heavy losses on both sides. The 1990 Gulf War was two of the largest militaries in the world fighting one another. Even Germany's incredibly successful blitzkrieg of France resulted in 40,000 casualties on their side.

Do you have any details about these US military reforms in the 80s? Not doubting this, just curious. How were things before? What did they change?

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Klyith posted:

But besides that, Russia still has attack subs and those are what I'd be worried about even more than missiles.

Someone claimed that the US has enough subs of their own that they would be able to just shadow all the Russian ones at all times. Now I dunno, but I'm gonna lol at that thought anyway

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

William Bear posted:

Whenever I see that his username is "Kadyrov_95", I think to myself, "Holy poo poo, this guy was born in 1995? He looks like poo poo!"

That's not true, of course, but what's the significance of the 95?

He really likes Windows 95

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
These Moscow drone strikes strike me as really weird. How certain is it that Ukraine was behind this? What was the range on the drones?

What were the targets, or is that not completely known either? Probably a lot of military targets in that area (just like there's everything else in that area, Moscow is big), but not sure what exact things were hit

Russian media isn't super trustworthy, to put it mildly, and apparently Ukraine is just completely quiet about all this which is understandable, so, ehh

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Blistex posted:

Coworker mentioned today that NATO weapons being used in Russia is going to be just like 9/11, and Russia's going to retaliate. My reply was that the US was able to retaliate conventionally because they have the military and money to project power for upwards of 20 years. Russia has nearly spent themselves into oblivion trying to "project power" against a smaller nation right on their border. He mentioned the nuclear option Russia has, and my take was that opening that bottle would be the end. They either go all out and commit suicide or they try it on a tactical level and NATO just destroys them conventionally. No nukes needed.

Confirm/Deny?

Biden & co at some point said in public that if Russia uses nukes, then USA + NATO will simply destroy the Russian army in Ukraine... using conventional means only

It seems like a good threat imo. It's pretty obvious that USA doesn't even need nukes to liberate Ukraine

(Of course now I can't find the article with the exact details)

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

steinrokkan posted:

Remember when there actually were negotiations of some sort in the first months - and they ended up with the Ukrainian representative gunned down? That episode seems to have been largely forgotten

Hm, I'm pretty sure this didn't happen? You might be conflating two things

There was a weird incident early on in the war when some guy working in Zelensky's admin team at the top level (I think) was apparently gunned down by some other Ukrainians in some heated situation. They said he was actually a Russian agent and a traitor. But then later on some officials said that he was actually a double agent and on the Ukrainian side and the whole shooting him dead thing was an unfortunate accident. I don't know how true that is but it's also the kind of thing which isn't gonna be reliably confirmed by anyone any time soon.

Separately, there was a negotiation that happened between a Russian and a Ukrainian delegation, somewhere north of Kiyv, maybe just inside Belarus or something. The Putin side was a bunch of goons in crisp suits with absolutely no mandate to even start discussing any kind of concession, Ukrainians were headed by the minister of defence and all were wearing their usual "army casual" clothes. The negotiation was something like: Russia: "ok give us literally everything we want and surrender immediately, then we can talk further" vs. Ukraine: "first you will remove all of your army from everywhere in Ukraine including Crimea, then we can talk further". Obviously nothing came of it (and indeed the exact same blockage still applies re negotiations)

Both of these happened within a month or two of the war starting, probably, my memory is a bit hazy

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Toxic Mental posted:

Ukraine War: Thread for discussing how the holodomor thread defniitely DIDN'T happen

Thoughts?

How many iterations has this thread gone through so far where some tankies whine at the mods in SAD until the thread gets closed? Three? They got someone demodded too

Right now the situation isn't too bad, but I guess if you want to change that then go ahead

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

zone posted:

To be fair, they didn't need that much men to organize a march on Moscow to begin with. Like 20,000-25,000 people were there in the Wagner march. What really made the difference was the heavy equipment at their disposal that let them shoot down all those planes and choppers. So assuming such conditions can be somehow repeated (seizing enough heavy equipment and air defense) it's still possible.

I don't think the full Wagner strength of 20-25k was marching on Moscow, the numbers I heard for were more like 1-2k. But a bunch of Wagner troops certainly stayed behind to secure Rostov on Don, not sure how many there.

The impression I had was that most of Wagner were chilling in their barracks somewhere in/near Ukraine during the coup march. But are any of these numbers known with any exactness? I mean how many Wagnerites were in which places doing what

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

steinrokkan posted:

Unless I'm mistaken, conscription refers specifically to basic service, which is something that's normally done by kids out of high school, so 30 years seems quite high and scraping the bottom of the barrel of older Russians who managed to avoid conscription in the past.

Eh, in Finland it's been 18-30 basically forever. I don't think 30 is super old for basic service

Finland is kind of an exception though as it's fairly militarised for a European country, dunno

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Deki posted:

Most likely someone just went down the post count list and hit every non mod/IK

Ok wait, where's the post count list? Is that a thing for each thread or how do you mean?

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Tahirovic posted:

So local Swiss news kinda confused my brain. Nestle is all over the news crying because Russia took away their factories.
- Nestle factories in Russia got nationalised and Nestle lost a lot of money because they wanted to keep milking that market (circumventing sanctions)
- Russia got free factories

Hopefully Ukraine bombs those factories and relieves this pressure from my mind.

In the second world war one had to choose whom to support between Hitler and Stalin

Now we choose between Putin and Nestle

It hits different

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

tiaz posted:

They aren't really similar statements, but Defmon gives the highly summary answer right there - too close to the front line. Artillery delivers hits from far away and can't really defend itself directly. Putting it too close to the front line risks losing it (whether captured or destroyed). Artillery does move forward as the front line moves forward, but they probably won't be positioned in Robotyne until the front line is well beyond Robotyne and it is considered safe.

Yeah, I mean I'm no expert, but the front apparently looks like this (Deep State map):



If the Ukrainian artillery currently can't reach Tokmak from somewhere far enough from the contact line, they're not going move it into the pocket near Robotyne either.

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
Official photograph of the extremely sadly departed below (2023, colorised) :rip:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

98 degrees? What planet is this photo from? :sweatdrop:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

OctaMurk posted:

if everyone is wearing something different should we still call it a "uniform"

Variform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJFpuJRdBmQ

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
Went to an art exhibition. Some works by Ukrainian artist Maria Prymachenko here in London. The russians, naturally, deliberately burned down a museum containing a bunch of art by Ukrainian artists including her and some others. Well, many of her works still survive, such as this:




Putin is a big piece of poo poo.

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Tai posted:

Christ, there is geniune concern in Russia that the diesel/gasoline export ban was too late. Farmers might not be able to get the fuel to harvest all the crops due to the war sucking it up.

Also due to price caps on fuel in Russia, the Government might not have the funds to be able to pay the excess cash above the caps when farmers that do have access to fuel fill up their farm vehicles. Throw in that Russia needs food for it's war and it also needs that cash from exporting fuel that it no longer exports.

Dang, that sounds really bad. Shame there's nothing Russia can do about it, such as stop this invasion and go home, which would free up all that fuel for other uses... but no, that's obviously impossible.

RDM posted:

I'm sure there's some ethnic region that will get zero food. Gives the "ackshwally it's not really a genocide" people something to argue about for the next 50 years.

This post is completely inaccurate.

The Holodomor happened 90 years ago, so the tankies will argue about the next one for at least another 90 years.

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Tai posted:

No worries the Brits and the French give zero fucks about hitting Crimea so they can just save Taurus for targets in mainland Ukraine

Taurus is longer range than Storm Shadow though?

I imagine the range is one reason why Ukraine would really like get Taurus, makes targets like the Kerch bridge much easier

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
Also, the current thread title was already used by one of the earlier threads. This is intolerable. I want my money back. :colbert:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
Hey friends here's an idea: please do keep talking about Israel vs Palestine in this, the Ukraine thread. This is exactly what everyone wants to read here and will definitely not have the thread shut down or anything

Re Ukraine, Reuters reports that some Ukrainian official is saying Russia is expected to massively increase their drone strikes over this winter. Last winter the count was approx 1,000 Shaheds over six months, this year it's already been 500 Shaheds in September alone. This seems bad

Ok sorry about that back to how this is all about Palestine somehow

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost
The population of the entire country of Finland is approx 5 million, while the population of St Pete the city is about 5 million, so I'm not sure exactly how the logistics of Finland conquering it would work in practice

In unrelated news, Putin is a huge piece of poo poo

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Toxic Mental posted:

Visiting America and dumping in our deep bowl waters must feel like absolute luxury to fully submerge your stinky putins

I went to the USA once and I mean... the tip of, you know, my dick, was like 2 mm from the goddamn water when I was sitting down. It was incredibly uncomfortable! Not to mention the splashes of poo poo water on my buttocks as well, it was like a mini-storm

Was able to drop my putins fine in the end but gently caress me, I don't know what the designers of those toilet bowls were thinking

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

mobby_6kl posted:

The problem with this approach is that we'll have to re-take it at some point, probably with the exact same process but in reverse. Putin will also see this as validation that things are progressing and will want to keep going.

Well I dunno, couldn't Ukraine just... go around it? Might be easier to isolate the big dumb mountain of toxic garbage, let the Russians try to defend it while not getting any more ammo or food or water coming in, how long would they last before surrendering. I'm no big brain strategist though. :shrug:

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

bad_fmr posted:

Russian MP Andrei Gurulyov says that Finland is being turned into a "second Ukraine" and claims that Finns increasingly have territorial claims on Petrozavodsk

Translation, as always, is: some Russian decision makers would like to turn Finland into a second Ukraine, and they also have territorial claims on parts of Finland

The formerly Finnish areas which were lost to Stalin have been a part of Russia for about 80 years now, absolutely no one in the actual grown-up government on the Finnish side even thinks about reclaiming them back or whatever the hell

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

10 aircraft with all the best missiles they can fire operating daily would wreck, or force into shut down, large amounts of Russian GBAD in 1 region inside of a month, greatly push back Russian air power, and make a real difference in the war for Ukraine.

Really? What are these best missiles exactly, that they would have this kind of effect?

Ukraine has already been using HARMs but not in the optimal way since they don't have their MIGs or whatever don't have the fancy integrated electronics. But even F-16-launched HARMs wouldn't have that long range? And Ukraine already has (some) cruise missiles and also some kind of ATACMS for some kind of longer range capacity, hmm.

There are NATO anti-air missiles whose name I forget which are similar to the best Russian anti-air things, latter have reportedly (source: RUSI I think) been used from a range of 175 km, maybe Ukraine having things like that would let them shoot down some Russian planes from afar

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

It would be interesting to look into how this shift in their politics came about.

great war on terror m8

and yeah also Putin being a nationalist fascist and also "christian" is (nowadays) a big part of it

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jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

Der Kyhe posted:

This is the part that I actually find interesting; they went straight to anti-christian satanism and occultism, instead of trying something with the Finnish paganism. You'd think that the local ultra-nationalistic assholes would want to take Ukko, Väinämöinen, or other stuff from Kalevala or mentioned in Mythologia Fennica as their own, instead of just rambling something about Satan this and Satan that.

Yeah it seems that knowing one's own culture and history and language and so on requires a quantum of intellect, so... yeah

Instead, right wingers keep coming up with stuff like NRA Finland

edit to add: from Wikipedia -

"Yhdistyksen nettisivut sisältävät ampumaharrastukseen liittyvän tietouden lisäksi runsaasti erilaisia salaliittoteorioita sionistien ylivallasta, holokaustin valheellisuudesta, Bilderberg-ryhmästä ja rotujen sekoittumisesta. Lisäksi NRA muun muassa väittää amerikkalaisten hallitsevan Euroopan unionia juutalaisten suurpankkien kautta ja Yhdysvaltain aiheuttaneen Itä-Ukrainan sodan."

(auto-translate of above with deepl.com)

"The association's website contains a wealth of conspiracy theories about Zionist supremacy, the falsehood of the Holocaust, the Bilderberg Group and racial mixing, in addition to information about the shooting hobby. In addition, the NRA claims, among other things, that the Americans control the European Union through Jewish big banks and that the US caused the war in Eastern Ukraine."

:shuckyes:

jaete fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Nov 13, 2023

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