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I'm still reeling from the fact that if not for docbeard reopening discussion and fluffdaddy backing him up by joining in, reinforcing the legitimacy of the discussion, all of this would've stayed squashed for who knows how long before it boiled over into something worse.
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Mar 19, 2023 09:32
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pentyne posted:Explain how a single player video game has comparable consent issues with a group dynamic 24/7 role play game. Is there still a review for Rapelay on the SA home page?
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Mar 19, 2023 09:32
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can all the TG posters stop oversharing about their hosed up habits here and go back there now. please. begging
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Mar 19, 2023 09:34
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I think there is a misunderstanding of what exactly 24/7 means in this case but my feelings have been hurt so I am going to run away from this thread of scary posters~
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Mar 19, 2023 09:47
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this topic has been unpleasant enough without people getting into weird attacks on each other
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Mar 19, 2023 09:54
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American McGay posted:I think those posters should stop doing that because it’s weird as gently caress and like, play video games or take up baking instead.
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Mar 19, 2023 10:07
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 Runa posted:I'm still reeling from the fact that if not for docbeard reopening discussion and fluffdaddy backing him up by joining in, reinforcing the legitimacy of the discussion, all of this would've stayed squashed for who knows how long before it boiled over into something worse. doc and Fluffdaddy did good. 
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Mar 19, 2023 10:16
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Jonah Galtberg posted:can all the TG posters stop oversharing about their hosed up habits here and go back there now. please. begging It’s five am and I’m cooking a corned beef for belated st pat’s. I’m a trad games poster and this is my hosed up habit
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Mar 19, 2023 10:21
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The hell. Y’all roleplaying?
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Mar 19, 2023 10:42
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Snooze Cruise posted:I am making a joke about you suggesting an alternative hobby that also has a history of making people uncomfortable with sexual poo poo, lol. I've heard stories about abusive text messages and death threats in this hobby, but never any sex freaky stuff.
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Mar 19, 2023 10:46
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6 hours after reading all this and I still feel like the guy who opened the ark at the end of Raiders and started melting
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Mar 19, 2023 10:53
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Yeah I've never done the discord/forum RP thing and freely admit I 100% do not understand what anyone finds interesting about it but unless I'm woefully mistaken I suspect the "24/7" aspect is being kinda overstated. I do from time to time play RP MUDs (think text-based MMORPG) and it's.. literally just an MMO, except you playact a role as a character, and it's "24/7" in the sense that it's always online and there's usually always someone around but there is no expectation that anyone actually engage with it 24/7, people drop in after work or on their day off and see what's going on and go do something or go talk to eachother and then they go to bed or go to work or go to the bar or go gently caress their spouses or whatever else they're up to with their actual life. There's still issues of FOMO, excessive attachment, and OOC siloing creating the opportunity for bizarre admin powertrips, and struggling with player safety, consent, acceptable content, and dispute resolution has been a process of continual improvement over the 20+ years these games have been operating, but like, idk I feel like people are picturing something much weirder than the reality? That said, I suspect the comparatively pretty tiny playerbase and GM-intensive nature of the discord RP thing exacerbates some of the worst problems, though. lol @ this entire debacle this thread's been a great read
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Mar 19, 2023 10:53
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Fluffdaddy posted:This normal for RP? A list of hosed up poo poo this long? I am being serious with this question. Depends mostly on the RPG. Eg. Vampire the Masquerade will have a lot of trigger and consent warnings and words. But usually not like to that specific itemized list more along the lines of "hey this is a game with some strong themes of death, unhumaning etc. IF YOU EVER FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE DO NOT BE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP" Arivia posted:podima is still listed as IK of traditional games and most importantly the subforum of trad games, the game room, where recruiting for games like this clusterfuck happens. those ik permissions should also be removed if they haven't been yet. this ik-ship is still listed on his profile for both forums. They should be banned/perma'd for their involvement in all of this. Not just the guy who lost their poo poo at losing their author credit. how many times does there need to be a "oops we made this problematic person with lots of verifiable history an admin" need to happen before something is actually done to change how they're chosen? Mekchu fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Mar 19, 2023 |
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Mar 19, 2023 10:59
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American McGay posted:I think those posters should stop doing that because it’s weird as gently caress and like, play video games or take up baking instead. this whole situation is insane on multiple levels and having read the entire thread i feel like im going crazy now too
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Mar 19, 2023 11:10
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well this was a wild overnight
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Mar 19, 2023 11:20
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pentyne posted:Explain how a single player video game has comparable consent issues with a group dynamic 24/7 role play game. every time i press end turn in civ it just starts the next turn instead of making me go to bed
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Mar 19, 2023 11:50
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ASAPRockySituation posted:Would it have made you happier if I said it is definitely creepy and no brainer grounds to lose admin? The person one conjures in their imagination when this kind of thing is described does not fit the Podima I've seen for years. I probably should've kept it to myself, though, you're right.
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Mar 19, 2023 12:10
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I've just finished getting caught up on this thread because a lot happened during what was overnight for me. Most of the online roleplaying-specific stuff went way over my head but a lot of this seemed like obvious problems with consent, like "don't pressure people into doing something they don't want to do because it's central to your vision of something." Thank you to the people who came forward to share info, publicly and privately, and thank you to the people who helped explain that no, none of this was normal in whatever community was doing it. idk I wanted to say more here but my brain is still just going wtf so I'll leave it at that and say I think it would be good to raise admin names in public. I would have thought that something this disqualifying would have come up when Podima was made IK or mod in TG but clearly it didn't, which means it's something that could happen again, so we should make sure it doesn't.
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Mar 19, 2023 12:31
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vyelkin posted:I've just finished getting caught up on this thread because a lot happened during what was overnight for me. Most of the online roleplaying-specific stuff went way over my head but a lot of this seemed like obvious problems with consent, like "don't pressure people into doing something they don't want to do because it's central to your vision of something." Thank you to the people who came forward to share info, publicly and privately, and thank you to the people who helped explain that no, none of this was normal in whatever community was doing it. he was in an ik position while all of this was happening. I don't know when he was made mod because I'm going to be honest. it's very hard to tell the difference between IK's and mods half the time and they're listed in the same place on the forum. I didn't want to raise anything because like, even during this thread, other people who had legitimately talked to me about some of these things were getting dms about how evil and gaslighting I am. He/was is beloved by the forums community. Peramene, the permabanned user, was incredibly celebrated as being an incredible writer who made some of the best and most engaging and intense games people had ever played. I figured he would be the IK of a community but that means very little, and all my friends had already left had or talked about how I had personally betrayed them and their community and were no longer my friends, so I figured it would all it would be a one-off thing that I could just bury. also it was all offsite discord rp poo poo in a community that would spend three to four hours a day every day rping. the whole thing sounds insane and I figured nobody would treat any of it seriously because what the gently caress. everythingWasBees fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Mar 19, 2023 |
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Mar 19, 2023 12:47
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everythingWasBees posted:he was in an ik position while all of this was happening. I don't know when he was made mod because I'm going to be honest. it's very hard to tell the difference between IK's and mods half the time and they're listed in the same place on the forum. On or before August 15th, 2022.
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Mar 19, 2023 12:50
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everythingWasBees posted:he was in an ik position while all of this was happening. I don't know when he was made mod because I'm going to be honest. it's very hard to tell the difference between IK's and mods half the time and they're listed in the same place on the forum. This makes total sense to me. I remember from MU* days how 'rockstar' writers and plotters could get away with all kinds of poo poo. I'm really sick this happened so recently. For folk asking, no, this isn't normal for this kind of game. It *used* to be unremarkable because power-tripping assholes will use any opportunity to be overbearing and creepy. But in the modern day there are widely known, agreed-upon safety guidelines and nothing like this should ever happen. As I posted back sometime last night, the correct thing to happen in any roleplaying game, voice or in person or text based, is that if someone is uncomfortable they can indicate that somehow (sometimes there's a card with an X on it to point to, or a private channel to type 'X' into or whatever) and the plot *immediately changes*. Whatever was making them uneasy is instantly dropped. Sometimes that might mean a break in the game because oh poo poo, I didn't know Player had trauma relating to fires, I will have to rewrite this plot without fires now. Either way though nobody has to justify why they're asking for a halt, nobody should be made to feel like they can't or told 'just trust me' or rolled over. And of course if you are running a game with darker themes you have to make it explicitly clear upfront what those themes will be so people can dip out earlier. There was a bit of a scandal a while back in one of the big actual plays, Critical Role maybe? Where someone's character was put in a sexual situation and they were unhappy about it and the DM lost his position because of it. I can't remember who it was or even what game it was in.
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Mar 19, 2023 12:57
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HopperUK posted:This makes total sense to me. I remember from MU* days how 'rockstar' writers and plotters could get away with all kinds of poo poo. I'm really sick this happened so recently. https://www.polygon.com/2020/4/6/21207309/rollplay-far-verona-sexual-assault-lets-play-season-2-canceled I think you might be referring to this, though it's almost certain that this type of poo poo has happened more than once. Was surprised to learn the DM in trouble was the guy who created Dungeon World.
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Mar 19, 2023 13:03
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Can I ask a genuine question Why is it that modmins have this protective barrier that stops them from bring banned? Like stuff that regular users would be booted for just seemingly gets their privs removed. It's like being knocked down the hierarchy where you can only be banned at the bottom rung
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Mar 19, 2023 13:04
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Autisanal Cheese posted:https://www.polygon.com/2020/4/6/21207309/rollplay-far-verona-sexual-assault-lets-play-season-2-canceled One of. The other DW creator, Sage LaTorra, has an impeccable reputation as far as I’m aware (but also doesn’t do live-streaming stuff).
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Mar 19, 2023 13:04
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CyberPingu posted:Can I ask a genuine question think of it like big mario and small mario
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Mar 19, 2023 13:09
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Mekchu posted:how many times does there need to be a "oops we made this problematic person with lots of verifiable history an admin" need to happen before something is actually done to change how they're chosen? At least once more!
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Mar 19, 2023 13:10
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Jeff posted either here or in the discussion thread that he closed the original thread because he initially thought it was irl sexual harassment or worse btw. He didn't realize at first it was about off-site discord uh, whatever this is. Legit at first that's what it appeared as a lay person, either forum stuff that no one noticed or someone that knew pod in person. Posting here and giving more info at least gave people more ability to give their stories about the off-site stuff and more context which at least helped limit some speculation.
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Mar 19, 2023 13:22
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A goon hobby subcommunity looking at the moral panic plot of Mazes and Monsters and thinking “that would be awesome!”
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Mar 19, 2023 13:33
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lmao they did it again
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Mar 19, 2023 13:34
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everythingWasBees posted:he was in an ik position while all of this was happening. I don't know when he was made mod because I'm going to be honest. it's very hard to tell the difference between IK's and mods half the time and they're listed in the same place on the forum. That's terrible and I'm really sorry that happened to you. Thank you so much for being willing to come forward and tell us what happened.
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Mar 19, 2023 13:39
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Cool that the other shoe is finally dropping on this. I was a player in these games, and was on the “out group” by the end. Here are my notes: - Nothing sexual happened to me or my character in the course of the game. I am very uninterested in ERP and certainly wouldn’t have stuck around if it did - I found out after the game about some of the stuff mentioned in this thread, but not all. TBH, I avoided mention of this stuff because it grossed me out. - I was under the impression that whatever occurred was more consensual than it was and had mentally filed it away as a weird sex thing that a certain group of players in the game where getting increasingly into, more on that later - Obviously that’s hosed up but I do think some people are getting a little carried away in how this thing is being described, it wasn’t an erotic rpg and most players were not interacting with that content - it was also hosed up in other ways though. Peramene, who famously showed up to this thread to take credit for the sexual rpg sequences as “her dream”, was a known weirdo and basically ran a cult of personality that slowly took over more and more of the mafia community in general as these games progressed - Not to fully excuse Podima here because he obviously helped run these games and allowed these incidents to happen, but my impression at the time was that most of the weird sex stuff came from pera and that her preference was to put even more of that in there - Ultimately at the conclusion of these games a lot of the players most invested/involved broke off from the mafia community and made their own little places. IDK what else occurred after that, but I know there were occasional flare ups of the type of drama you’d expect with this group.
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Mar 19, 2023 13:44
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Thanks to everyone coming forward. It's tough.
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Mar 19, 2023 13:48
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CyberPingu posted:Can I ask a genuine question I’d point out that even the people that brought this all up in the first place have been saying “this doesn’t warrant a ban, but I don’t think he should be an admin.” I know that as the person defending him I don’t have a lot of credibility here, but despite the phrasing of the title and the original post, this is not a matter of him being a sex pest, or even a creep, and much more along the lines of poor judgment calls in community management, which he has specifically owned up to, apologized for, and learned from in the multiple years (5 and 2 respectively), since they happened. There has been a lot of people posting “Riven Sex RP” repeatedly, but literally none of those people were a part of this—it’s pure goon telephone. It was a single scene in a long game of that had like two mods trying to manage something like 50 people, and was in no way some planned thing at the start of the game, which otherwise didn’t have any remotely sexual content—mostly just people dying to ecological disaster. The community, as a whole, was less than great about what made for a safe and sane experience. As Jen touched on, there was this general feeling that this was all something New and Daring. Which, yeah, is kind of being full of ourselves. But it wasn’t some top-down thing, it came from pretty much everybody—including some of the posters in here, one of whom wrote an article on these games as a new thing. And that lead to a lot of mistakes. Riven was way too many people, resulting in extremely overworked mods trying to do way too much. But people had fun. Future games were smaller. The follow-up ran way too long, became too much a Part of Life, but it was one of the most fun games a bunch of us had played despite that—future games were shorter. The one after that—another adapted LARP, a later effort by the people who made IMG—was only about two weeks long, but people were on and active for too much of it, without enough time to step away and just be themselves—and it was met with as I remember universal acclaim. Future games were spaced out more to force that kind of disconnect. Every failure came with a lot of successes attached, and that lead to a widespread feeling that yes, we would stumble in the future, but that we could just learn from mistakes, because things would otherwise work out. And I want to emphasize that Podima was not kind of sole originator of this attitude. Then the signature problem of IMG was… basically that whole communal attitude in and of itself. That self-important feeling of this being some nascent thing that was worth pushing boundaries for. And that wasn’t something that the game could just trundle on through and resolve after the fact. It was bad, it was messy, and a lot of mistakes were made. A lot of people—Podima included, and myself included, didn’t manage to step outside of that feeling to give a critical eye in the moment. That was a lesson that we all ultimately came around on. Those boundaries, that safety, is something we proactively try to address now.Too late to avert disaster, but it did happen. Podima was never some magical realm creep, just a guy who got too caught up in a game and made some bad choices, while he was in a community leadership position. And those are experiences he learned from, as he himself said when he apologized and stepped down. He’s a person—as someone who values the ability to learn from mistakes, I would say a good person—not a cartoon pervert. If you think that’s banworthy, that’s your opinion to hold, but I really think it’s important to evaluate this on the first-hand facts, and not the reductive shitposting that fills a lot of this thread.
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Mar 19, 2023 14:16
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You should really stop posting words because you look worse each time you focus on the people who had fun before addressing the harm caused. You are not representing the growth you claim to have experienced through that simple fact. You also seem to think you have an exhaustive list of who was and wasn’t harmed by this. That will always be an incorrect view to hold. The fact that some of the directly affected have claimed this isn’t banworthy should be influential in decision making. Your posts shouldn’t.
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Mar 19, 2023 14:22
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The fun didn’t excuse any of the issues. Far from it. It’s what led to us continuing to make dumb mistakes, because we thought it was alright. It was a fuckup.
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Mar 19, 2023 14:35
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American McGay posted:I think those posters should stop doing that because it’s weird as gently caress and like, play video games or take up baking instead.
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Mar 19, 2023 14:43
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Jonah Galtberg posted:can all the TG posters stop oversharing about their hosed up habits here and go back there now. please. begging naw they should keep posting about their weird poo poo its funny and when the freaks wave their hosed up little flag loud like peramene did its easy ban them
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Mar 19, 2023 14:46
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The Lord of Hats posted:The fun didn’t excuse any of the issues. Far from it. It’s what led to us continuing to make dumb mistakes, because we thought it was alright. It was a fuckup. This isn't exactly about Pod anymore, but if everyone's learned better now, and sees that there were in fact any fuckups that needed learning about... why did pera appear with that much sheer vitriol at Bees? And calling it "inane nonsense"? I mean, is it just a really unfortunate coincidence, that some harmful leadership mistakes did take place, but it was right around the same time that some "willfully manipulative" newbie decided to target you all to gently caress poo poo up? I'm genuinely asking, cause I was so far out of the loop when this poo poo went down that I didn't even know the name of the server anymore. And I've actually avoided trying to talk to Bees about it, or directly asking them anything at all, cause people from the old Myst games that I actually knew and did ask about it? They hit me with so much "who are you talking to" paranoia that it freaked me out, like if I dared let Bees' opinions touch my virgin ears, everyone would consider me contaminated or some poo poo. But it's hard for me to imagine what could justify that treatment. If anything it freaks me out wondering how easily that could've been me on the receiving end instead, if I'd decided against the "just squash the feelings down for six months" plan that was great for keeping the game running but awful for my mental health.
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Mar 19, 2023 15:09
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i have no idea what anyone is talking about
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Mar 19, 2023 15:16
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even ignoring the sex stuff it seems like an insanely hosed up and weird space tbh
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Mar 19, 2023 15:16
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