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(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)
 
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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



CSM posted:

Of course they are, that doesn't mean it still couldn't be an accident.

Maybe a Russian soldier was smoking a cigarette too close to the large pile of sabotage explosives planted inside the dam.

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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Boris Galerkin posted:

When I was younger and more dumb I thought everything that I read/heard about happening in the USSR happened “in Russia” but then again teenage me is not an editor for Time magazine, who I would hope knows better.

Until my early 20s I told people I was 1/4 Russian, because my maternal grandmother fled the USSR after WW2 and my mom said she was Russian.

Turns out grandma had lived a harder life than my mom thought, cause grandma was Ukrainian. She supposedly left behind her own mother and a sister, there may have been male siblings that didn't survive the holodomor/WW2. I often wonder if I have some distant blood relatives who're now fighting for their life again.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Kraftwerk posted:

Given the fact that these losses were triggered at the picket line level without hitting the main defenses, wouldn't it be better to stop the counteroffensive until Ukraine can figure out how to deal with their close air support? It might be that they've already done this given the relative lack of information/footage after that initial assault.

I think Ukrainian planners have done the best they can while incorporating the potential of Russian air power and their own anti-air capabilities before launching this offensive. Halting it entirely because one push got turned back is juts idiocy.

We have to give it 1-2 weeks before we as outside observers can judge the succes of this offensive. Maybe Ukraine has suffered losses they've managed to hide and it has been an abysmal failure. Maybe they've already breached the defensive line. We can't know, and speculation is just going to upset yourself.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Does Russia have secure communications yet? Or are they still kinda reliant on the Ukrainian cellphone network? That'd be one reason I can think of to explain why these high level generals keep being precariously close to the frontline.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



I'm really curious how this is going to impact russian logistics into Ukraine. Prigozhin said he wants to let the military continue to run the war, but this has to have some pretty debilitating effects.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



It's a civil war if the coup fails both to succeed and be suppressed.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Jeza posted:

Ignoring all final outcomes, in the short-term this has to present an incredible military opportunity for Ukraine, no? Unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding the value of that much arms and armour just leaving the frontlines to go coup. Not to mention diverting resources, attention and blocking supply lines.

I don't think Wagner was active on the frontline post-Bakhmut, but with the recent Ukraine strikes on Russian logistics they really can't afford to have several internal routes locked, or supplies rerouted to defend against an uprising of any size. If the reports of the Ukrainians breaking through the established defensive line of a few days ago were correct and supplies aren't forthcoming, I could see another Russian rout.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Nenonen posted:

Special Civil Operation

This'd make a great thread title.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Dog Friday posted:

So we don't want Wagner to win and we don't like Putin either... What's the best outcome from all this?

Probably Putin and his closest cronies being taken out in a decapitation strike by Wagner, then the regular Russian troops taking out Prigozhin/Wagner in a clean operation, with the interim government announcing a cease-fire with Ukraine.

A coup/civil war is never a good time for anyone even tangentially involved.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Sigmund Fraud posted:

I believed that Wagner was deliberately denied heavy armour and AA to keep them harmless. Now we see all kinds of modern armour and AA in the convoys. What happened?

They raided Rostov and Voronezh.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



WarpedLichen posted:

Someday we'll have a Call of Duty level based on this and people will think its unrealistic that you can march on the capital and the only opposition you face is 8 helicopters.

Looking forward to future Moscow Bus charity streams.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



RockWhisperer posted:

Wait, if this is true, shooting down multiple aircraft was not the point at which he thought things went too far? :dogstare:

The aircraft were sent by his enemies in the MoD, not his good friend Putin.


It's not just Putin who's been believing his own propaganda for far too long. Everyone with some a serious amount of power in Russia seems to believe their own (wildly differing) versions of reality, somehow.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



From all the info that's come out about the way Putin's regime has been treating to he areas it occupies, if they weren't pro-Russian many of the Ukrainians fighting for Ukraine would have been dead or disappeared by now if they'd agreed to a peace deal. Trying to erase Ukrainian identity through forced relocation and massively changing the education curriculum is a form of genocide. The only realistic option Ukraine has is kicking out the Russians.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



It's important to remember that in the mind of Putin and his top crew, the operation in Ukraine would have been over in a week. They didn't include NATO closing ranks in their calculations, because Ukraine becoming a Russian vassal state was going to be a done deal before the EU could even get together to figure out what the gently caress just happened.

That Russia is still clinging to the invasion a year and a half after it's been such a disaster is something else though.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Tehdas posted:

It does make a good interview question. How would you move an 80m submarine across 500kms of Russia?

Build a huge canal, it'll only take a few decades.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



While previously declaring our old F-16's as too old and hard to maintain to send to Ukraine, Belgium has now pivoted and is going to supply them. Starting in 2025.

Better late than never I guess, but if they're still needed in 2025 I hope it's because Putin refuses to admit defeat and they're hunting him down in a Siberian forest bunker without much bloodshed.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



OddObserver posted:

I think it might have something to do with the 155th getting destroyed two or three times...

155th_final_copy (2)

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



I imagine if Putin dies suddenly, it'll be whoever has the strongest grasp on the security forces near Moscow at the point his death is known. Wagner's ride to Moscow showed that Russia is not prepared for an internal power struggle, or at least that the plans in place are paralysing when the threat comes from an unexpected angle.

The line of succession should make it go to the prime minister, but people have fallen out of windows before. This is the fundamental problem with most autocratic strongmen regimes, the successor can only take the mantle if they're as strong and ruthless as the one that just died.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Kikas posted:

Yeah I would also add that aside from sending money, accommodating migrants has had a huge impact on housing, employment and social stuff here in Poland, I think that impact is wayyyyy past the rounding error.

Populists who worry about Ukrainian refugees' impact on housing and job markets should take into consideration that if Russia gets to keep what they annexed, many of those refugees will have no home to return to. Anyone who lived near a frontline will likely not have a functional house, but there's a difference between returning to a ruin you can rebuild in a familiar (if dramatically changed) community, and your home town/city now being under a Russian authority that will not be welcoming you back.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



mmkay posted:

I'm looking forward to seeing another installment of the 'lady nonchalantly sticks some balloons in front of the monitoring camera to stuff the ballot box'. Though I may be mistaking her from the Belarusian elections. Why they even bother with that, instead of making up numbers, I don't know.

Belarus had the lady that climbed out of a window with a bag of ballots. Or just some random boxes/stacks of paper they had laying around the polling location that they had to evacuate down a ladder. Could be either, really.


Holdings elections in Ukraine during wartime seems like a dangerous undertaking. Physical voting is probably going to lead to missile strikes, keeping most reasonable people away from going. Mail votes would probably work, but Ukraine does still have a corruption problem that I'd fear influences the vote.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Just Another Lurker posted:

Any Ukrainian elections during wartime will be a prime target for Russian disinformation and attacks, turning it into a real mess.

I really doubt they'd not be a prime target after the invasion ends, one way or another. If the Russians end up retreating in defeat, hitting back with disinformation will be an immediate avenue of revanchism. If Ukraine has to agree to a negotiated peace deal, Russia can use that to get a party in power that'd be much more favourable to them in the future.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Kikas posted:

EDIT: Wow I am slow

How did you get a quote from the A50 right before it was shot down?

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



sexy tiger boobs posted:

When has defense not been the "stronger form of war"? Assuming you have two evenly matched opponents...

Probably the short window between both world wars where tanks and motorized infantry offered unseen mobility to overrun/bypass established defenses and make tangible gains. That window closed very fast after the combatants figured out how to defend against it. Drones are similarly upsetting combat, but eventually there will either be decent enough countermeasures or mitigation factors.

This is disregarding overwhelming firepower through bombing. Offense will almost always win if you just drop war-crimes on the defenses (i.e. oxygen-depriving firestorms or nukes).

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Volmarias posted:

Ok, so, and hear me out on this one guys, what if we had platoons march to the front, but they all hold a really big forest camo tarp over their heads while they march, so the drones think that they're just strangely mobile foliage? Hmm? Hmmmmmm?

The future of camouflage is static, so the drone software registers it as an error in its code and shuts down.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



E4.

hit.

You wrecked my blyattle-landship.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Kestral posted:

We see a lot of talk - on SA and elsewhere - to the effect of, "lmao the Russians spent all these lives and equipment to advance three inches," but those people are ignoring the fact that every Ukrainian defender who falls in defense of those three inches is far less replaceable than their Russian counterparts. If the UAF gets worn down sufficiently defending those three inches, eventually they're going to be spread too thin, become too brittle, and that's when we'll see collapses. These awful attritional battles need to be stacked hugely in Ukraine's favor (which they initially were), or else they favor Russia's larger pool of manpower.

It kinda reeks of the Cold War logic where you don't defeat your enemy in a proxy war, you just have your proxy resist enough to really wear the enemy down. There are going to be some agencies in the world that prefer the current somewhat-stalemate that is costing tens of thousands of Russian soldiers as opposed to them being kicked out of Ukraine with half the losses.

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nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



D-Pad posted:

I feel like assassinating zelensky would just make him a martyr and galvanize the Ukrainians even more at a time when things are on shaky ground morale wise with Russian advances, failure of western support, debate over lowering conscription age etc. It seems counterproductive because it's not going to knock Ukraine out of the war.

It'd really depend on what context the assassination happens in. If it's just killing him, yeah that won't help Russia much. If it includes a concerted push along the front to capitalize on the chaos, or a coup from inside the military, that's something else.

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