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Foma posted:Is it for people to break away and start to start Liberal+? Isn't the left about meiosis? Except more like half the brain we had before each time until we're all drooling idiots? Breaking off is fun!
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:40 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 10:16 |
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Space Whale posted:Anti-terrorism laws, crackdowns; infiltrations of less violent leftist groups because there's an excuse to do so because scary black men have guns and kill people. Not just that, but are capable enough to kill super rich people who have hella security and guards and stuff. You are acting like these things do not already occur or do not already exist. You are completely blind to how far the war has already gone.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:41 |
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SedanChair posted:I think it's telling that you think you can be more or less "intersectional." You are what you are, there is no ranking, despite every moron in the world talking about "oppression olympics" and trying to put together the grand list of rankings with a black lesbian in a wheelchair at the bottom. And intersectional hierarchies are not my creation, a lot of people honestly believe that poo poo. It's a genuine vulgarization that exists. But it's still wrong, even in your won interpretation, which is on an issue by issue basis.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:45 |
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England Sucks posted:You are acting like these things do not already occur or do not already exist. Yes and conspiracy to kill Waltons wouldn't make it that much worse? Also I'm a LEO too.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:48 |
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Do people want to debate and discuss or is the left stuck in insular groups and who laugh, point, and get offended. Look at the front page of D&D. "Right Wing Media: Rachel Maddow for Republicans" "Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here." "Freepers: Party on, Marxist dogs!" "The Best (Worst) Of Conservapedia" It isn't an attempt to engage, it is mocking/degrading. No attempt to find common ground or expand worldviews. It is a bit like bullying it makes you feel strong, but doesn't make your stronger
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:49 |
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Foma posted:Do people want to debate and discuss or is the left stuck in insular groups and who laugh, point, and get offended. Nobody likes an irate person who sticks to their core ideology. I'm definitely not the exception. D&D is still a good place, and is a lot better than just browsing news pages all day. That said, bring back LF. I want to see England Sucks do effort post threads kyon style.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:52 |
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Space Whale posted:Yes and conspiracy to kill Waltons wouldn't make it that much worse? Making things worse would mostly affect innocent citizens. It would increase resentment towards the government and bring more chaos to the already chaotic system. These are actually desirable outcomes from a perspective of the terrorists. The goal would be to push the entire nation to the edge until a violent revolution in inevitable.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 06:59 |
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the left
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:01 |
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I don't think D&D is the best place for advertising, mock threads are no more offensive than...mock threads in other forums I guess. Nor do I think that D&D is The Left's Clubhouse or anything like that.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:02 |
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Foma posted:Do people want to debate and discuss or is the left stuck in insular groups and who laugh, point, and get offended. There is no common ground to be had anymore. The right wing in America can not be reasoned with.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:04 |
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Foma posted:Do people want to debate and discuss or is the left stuck in insular groups and who laugh, point, and get offended. The us vs. them of the left here is every bit as strong as the average teapartier. Actually tea partiers might be more willing to hear opposing ideas. England Sucks posted:There is no common ground to be had anymore. The right wing in America can not be reasoned with. Perfect example right here. Complete us vs. them that would make Bush blush. Honestly there's no better support of the points made in the OP than the posters responses' here to any criticism.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:06 |
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Its silly to try and use the front page of D&D as a baromoter for anything about "the" left. Especially given that D&D has, like most of SA, gone a bit batty and senile in its own age.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:12 |
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It would be more helpful to actually show England Sucks examples of Republicans/Right-Wing Americans having reasonable views on key issues rather than adding yet another "I don't like the tone of leftist politics" post to the pile.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:16 |
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tsa posted:The us vs. them of the left here is every bit as strong as the average teapartier. Actually tea partiers might be more willing to hear opposing ideas. We must be reading alternate universe versions of this thread since aside from (admittedly) the last 10 pages of mind-numbing puppetmaster bullshit, things have been kept relatively civil and interesting. Also I am having a hell of a time trying to wrap my head around your comparison to the tea party here. This is not freep of the left. That was LF.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:18 |
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MoaM posted:It would be more helpful to actually show England Sucks examples of Republicans/Right-Wing Americans having reasonable views on key issues rather than adding yet another "I don't like the tone of leftist politics" post to the pile. The Right (which is nebulous as you have social conservatives and libertarians in the same grouping) is reasonable about the Keystone Pipeline Radley Balko http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/radley-balko is right about ways to limit police abuse and brutality Reason is right on a lot of the asset forfeiture stuff. Not sure if Tyler Cowen is right in Average is Over, but his ideas are worth thinking about http://marginalrevolution.com/
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:30 |
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tsa posted:The us vs. them of the left here is every bit as strong as the average teapartier. Actually tea partiers might be more willing to hear opposing ideas. It's not a us vs them mentality. It is reality. Trying to communicate and find common ground with these kinds of people is impossible. They do not react to intelligence. They react to power pure and simple. Beyond that the vast majority of them do not want common ground with anyone. They are stuck in a us vs them mentality of their own. We can try and pretend they are not but that would be a waste of time. You can not reach these kinds of people once the brainwashing is done it sticks. The media has made sure of that. Feel free trying to waste your time communicating and speaking the facts to people whose very nature and upbringing leads them to ignore the facts. We've tried it before. We know how it works out. See Obamacare. There is no reasoning. There is no common ground. The only hope left is either violent extreme revolution that destroys the entire fabric of this country from every government entity and legal binding document ever written; or using the exact same tactics used by the right: media control and brainwashing of the retarded public with religious and patriotic messages; for the greater good. Go watch Snowpiercer. The system is broken. You can not save it. It can not be worked for any greater good. It must be destroyed.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:33 |
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tsa posted:The us vs. them of the left here is every bit as strong as the average teapartier. Actually tea partiers might be more willing to hear opposing ideas. I sort of agree with the premise of the OP, but this is a classic liberal bit of crap that ignores the reality that oppression does not fall from the heavens, it is something carried out by people, people who usually believe themselves to be acting in their own interests, and are often correct in this assessment: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/why-im-not-a-liberal/ quote:I was standing in the National Mall, surrounded by nearly a quarter million people, when I realized I wasn’t a liberal.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:46 |
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tsa posted:Y-You're just as bad as them, guys! This is such a lovely cop out argument. Maybe next time you can try arguing with us instead of trying to shame us into submission for no good loving reason. Political instability and political insolvency are not the products of radicalism. They are the result of decades of pushing unsustainable policy, milquetoast reform, and compromise. The worst thing, literally the worst thing, that could ever happen is that the pendulum between stability and violent revolution stops swinging.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 07:46 |
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Space Whale posted:Unless I'm mistaken, it's just an alliteration for "collection of things" like "mob of mooks" as a nonsense word. Then there was a Korean war and Gook became an insult, and to say "gook" in isolation is to be clearly racist. I post in peace and mean no harm: I THINK the term got telephoned to you from 'Gobbledygook': gob·ble·dy·gook ˈɡäbəldēˌɡo͞ok/ nouninformal noun: gobbledegook language that is meaningless or is made unintelligible by excessive use of abstruse technical terms; nonsense. This is my guess. This is a term that's still used openly, and it's drat old.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 09:14 |
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England Sucks posted:It's not a us vs them mentality. It is reality. Trying to communicate and find common ground with these kinds of people is impossible. They do not react to intelligence. They react to power pure and simple. I almost took this seriously. The final line should have been a warning, thank to you whoever bought their avatar for the rest. The Snark fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Dec 9, 2014 |
# ? Dec 9, 2014 11:58 |
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Job Truniht posted:This is such a lovely cop out argument. Maybe next time you can try arguing with us instead of trying to shame us into submission for no good loving reason. Political instability and political insolvency are not the products of radicalism. They are the result of decades of pushing unsustainable policy, milquetoast reform, and compromise. The worst thing, literally the worst thing, that could ever happen is that the pendulum between stability and violent revolution stops swinging. So I take it you are of the impression that every so many decades there should be a violent revolution? Have you ever lived in a country where that happens?
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 12:14 |
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Helsing posted:How is it "beside the point" when your entire argument was that D&D somehow embodies "leftist tendencies"? I said D&D is a great cure for leftist tendencies. IDK what it would mean to "somehow embody" leftist tendencies and that doesn't even make sense.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 13:00 |
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Foma posted:"Freepers: Party on, Marxist dogs!" I dunno if these are really the sites we should be approaching with an open mind that they may be right. Foma posted:The Right (which is nebulous as you have social conservatives and libertarians in the same grouping) is reasonable I'm going to check these things out, but maybe someone should also be posting them in the relevant threads for them to be debated and discussed. As far as the tribalism thing goes, I do think it's obvious both sides engage in it, but you don't see it as often around here. You definitely see it, but it's pretty obvious when it's happening. I've never seen anything like this from the left, or at least not around here. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Dec 9, 2014 |
# ? Dec 9, 2014 14:17 |
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Nevvy Z posted:I dunno if these are really the sites we should be approaching with an open mind that they may be right. I am not suggesting we take those sites seriously, I am saying that picking the smallest retard on the playground pointing and laughing at them might make you feel big, but doesn't make you big.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 15:08 |
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England Sucks posted:Making things worse would mostly affect innocent citizens. It would increase resentment towards the government and bring more chaos to the already chaotic system. These are actually desirable outcomes from a perspective of the terrorists. The goal would be to push the entire nation to the edge until a violent revolution in inevitable. Yes, most people affected would be innocent. But most people who aren't involved wouldn't be affected. They'd see poo poo on tv and go "idiots, stay inside, go to work!" and go back to their dead end jobs the next day after a night of Netflix.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 15:31 |
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Foma posted:I am not suggesting we take those sites seriously, I am saying that picking the smallest retard on the playground pointing and laughing at them might make you feel big, but doesn't make you big. but what if we pickled the smallest retard
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 15:31 |
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Armani posted:I post in peace and mean no harm: I THINK the term got telephoned to you from 'Gobbledygook': Probably. I spoke about it to other people in my area and I got the "deer in headlights" response at "this phrase/word is racist". Also eeny, meeny, miny, moe being racist made a lot of people think I was loving with them. lol my region.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 15:33 |
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Foma posted:I am not suggesting we take those sites seriously, I am saying that picking the smallest retard on the playground pointing and laughing at them might make you feel big, but doesn't make you big. We aren't bullying people, though. No one is going onto Conservapedia or Freep and harassing the people there. They are completely unaware that such threads exist and their lives are no worse for it. So while you can muster all the righteous indignation that you want it's completely misplaced in this instance.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 15:57 |
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Who What Now posted:We aren't bullying people, though. No one is going onto Conservapedia or Freep and harassing the people there. They are completely unaware that such threads exist and their lives are no worse for it. So while you can muster all the righteous indignation that you want it's completely misplaced in this instance. Well not SA specifically since Raids Don't Happen Anymore! Also forums like this are very much passe. Now if you look at poo poo that's actually current and popular...
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 15:59 |
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Space Whale posted:Well not SA specifically since Raids Don't Happen Anymore! Also forums like this are very much passe. I don't give a gently caress about other sites.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 16:01 |
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Who What Now posted:I don't give a gently caress about other sites.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 16:09 |
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The Snark posted:I almost took this seriously. The final line should have been a warning, thank to you whoever bought their avatar for the rest. IT is a serious post. Snowpiercer is possibly one of the best films i've ever seen a perfect metaphor for America today. quote:Yes, most people affected would be innocent. But most people who aren't involved wouldn't be affected. They'd see poo poo on tv and go "idiots, stay inside, go to work!" and go back to their dead end jobs the next day after a night of Netflix. That's why you target Netflix and the media in general. You destroy escapism as a option so that the general public is left with nothing but reality and has to face the truth.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 16:28 |
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England Sucks posted:That's why you target Netflix and the media in general. You destroy escapism as a option so that the general public is left with nothing but reality and has to face the truth. They could always revolt by just oppressing y'all harder and going back to Netflix. Nobody even considers why they'd choose to fight the power instead of helping the power shut you up. This is a blind spot in your praxis.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 16:31 |
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You can't reason with people who are wholeheartedly reactionary about their politics because by definition they are on the defensive politically. Gay marriage isn't just something the right doesn't like, it's something that they have convinced themselves is a real threat to their core values and way of life in order to justify being so strongly against it. So when you reach across the aisle to try to compromise with them you're saying "Hey, how about instead of burning down every church in America and forcing your kids to be gay like we really want, we just burn down half the churches and just make all the teachers in schools gay?" That's what they hear, anyway. Whatever you were trying to do in the first place was an attack against them, and making it a slightly less drastic attack is not going to feel any better. You really can't talk about the Right as if all of their beliefs are actually founded on long-standing principles, or that there is consistent reasoning behind each political tactic they use. It's just them trying to keep everything the way they like it and with them on top of the hierarchy, which is reasonable I suppose, but not something you can really convince them not to work towards. Mineaiki fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 9, 2014 |
# ? Dec 9, 2014 19:40 |
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wateroverfire posted:I said D&D is a great cure for leftist tendencies. IDK what it would mean to "somehow embody" leftist tendencies and that doesn't even make sense. Is English not your native language? To embody something means to give it tangible or visible form. Isn't the implication of your post that because D&D manifests all the bad tendencies of leftism it will therefore scare away rational people? If not then your post would seemingly be a complete non sequitur.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 21:17 |
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Helsing posted:Is English not your native language? To embody something means to give it tangible or visible form. Isn't the implication of your post that because D&D manifests all the bad tendencies of leftism it will therefore scare away rational people? If not then your post would seemingly be a complete non sequitur. include or contain (something) as a constituent part. "the changes in law embodied in the Freedom of Information Act" synonyms: incorporate, include, contain, encompass; More
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 21:17 |
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Mineaiki posted:You can't reason with people who are wholeheartedly reactionary about their politics because by definition they are on the defensive politically. Gay marriage isn't just something the right doesn't like, it's something that they have convinced themselves is a real threat to their core values and way of life in order to justify being so strongly against it. So when you reach across the aisle to try to compromise with them you're saying "Hey, how about instead of burning down every church in America and forcing your kids to be gay like we really want, we just burn down half the churches and just make all the teachers in schools gay?" A united left pushing through progressive policies that actually help people will be far more effective at swaying people over to the left. The left gets caught up trying to be ideologically perfect and often forgets about pragmatism. Trying to score burn points and telling other progressives to check their privilege does nothing to actually achieve goals. Supporting other progressives, even if you disagree with them on a few issues, will yield better results than trying to force out anyone that disagrees ever so slightly with you.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:20 |
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beepo posted:I think the difference between lefties and staunch right wingers is that the left sees the average right winger as being mislead by the powerful or even willfully ignorant, but that they can be changed and educated. Blue Star posted:Sounds like another "political correctness gone mad" opinion piece. I don't buy it. Oppressed people do not have to take the feelings of oppressors into account, nor should they. Most men are misogynist. White people are racist. Sorry if that hurts somebody's feelings.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:34 |
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Space Whale posted:include or contain (something) as a constituent part. Like most English words, embody has several overlapping definitions. Of course I hardly need to tell you this given that you would have had to read past the definition I was using in order to paste that here. beepo posted:I think the difference between lefties and staunch right wingers is that the left sees the average right winger as being mislead by the powerful or even willfully ignorant, but that they can be changed and educated. A small but significant portion of the right sees the left as morally bankrupt or even evil. Even if evidence supports the "liberal" position, if you think liberals are bad humans you probably wont be swayed. Spending time trying to win over the right through arguments doesn't really work. This depends on how you define "goals". Not everybody who participates in a political movement is fully commited to that movement's ultimate goals. Existing research on why people join political movements shows that often times you come to a protest or a meeting out of interest or because a friend invited you. Then, as you participate in movement events, you start to develop a conviction that the movement is "right" about the issues. Action precedes belief: Rortybomb posted:This dynamic Jaffe describes was found in the sociologist’s Ziad Munson’s excellent ethnography The Making of Pro-Life Activists: How Social Movement Mobilization Works. From the book (my bold): My point here being that a lot of folks, and I think this applies to a certain degree to the author of the article in the OP (though in her case she did have some commitment to Queer activism from High School), actually get involved with the movement for none-ideological reasons. They develop their ideological orientation later. So their "goal" in getting involved isn't necessarily to change society, but rather to belong to a group. We also have to recognize - and I know it's a bit reductive to say this, but I think it's still accurate - that humans have a natural propensity to try and control or dominate each other. Flinging around accusations of privilege can be a way to signal that you're part of the right 'in group' and a way to control the language of other people. Obviously I don't believe this is the only motivation for the whole privilege discourse, because I think in some cases privilege is a relevant concept to use, but I think we'd have to be blind to ignore the fact that some people use privilege theory in this fashion. So there are understandable reasons why people act this way. I think this is far from the only explanation or even the best one, but I think it has to be talked about openly. Strudel Man posted:The second reply to this thread, and first argument against it, was the following. You know the left somehow managed to score major victories in the past when people were seemingly much more misogynistic and racist than they are today so I'll have to disagree with you here.
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# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:52 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 10:16 |
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Helsing posted:We also have to recognize - and I know it's a bit reductive to say this, but I think it's still accurate - that humans have a natural propensity to try and control or dominate each other. Flinging around accusations of privilege can be a way to signal that you're part of the right 'in group' and a way to control the language of other people. Obviously I don't believe this is the only motivation for the whole privilege discourse, because I think in some cases privilege is a relevant concept to use, but I think we'd have to be blind to ignore the fact that some people use privilege theory in this fashion. That's the lingering impression I've gotten after it went from "ok I get the point" to "what now?" to "why the gently caress are you sti-" to "I'm out." If they need their little fiefdom and have a supply of self hating people who put up with it welp good on them I guess. It still makes me wonder how to actually do a good thing except from a good (safe) distance. It also makes me wonder where to go for fellowship besides those bad, bad groups that actually like people like me.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:27 |