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Second most spoken language: A bit loving surprised by the Wayuu, but at least in Venezuela's case it seems right.
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Jul 15, 2015 11:51
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Why
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Jul 15, 2015 11:58
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Tree Goat posted:America nah i think getting the white house burned down counts as loving that one up
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Jul 15, 2015 12:07
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Jerry Cotton posted:Why Because like literally every Argentinian is of Italian descent?
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Jul 15, 2015 12:09
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Ras Het posted:Because like literally every Argentinian is of Italian descent? Yeah I mean why is that? Why did they migrate to Argentina much more than the other countries (apparently)? A quick Google suggests "well they just did" is the answer 
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Jul 15, 2015 12:10
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Ras Het posted:Because like literally every Argentinian is of Italian descent? Or Welsh
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Jul 15, 2015 12:29
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Jerry Cotton posted:Yeah I mean why is that? Why did they migrate to Argentina much more than the other countries (apparently)? A quick Google suggests "well they just did" is the answer I'm not sure if the difference is actually that drastic - a hell of a lot of Italians emigrated into Brazil, Venezuela and obviously USA too. I think it's more of a question of assimilation and relative numbers.
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Jul 15, 2015 12:52
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Ras Het posted:I'm not sure if the difference is actually that drastic - a hell of a lot of Italians emigrated into Brazil, Venezuela and obviously USA too. I think it's more of a question of assimilation and relative numbers. A quick count based on numbers I pulled out of Maybe the "Italian" population just reached critical mass like "hey all my cousins moved there why not follow them?"
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Jul 15, 2015 13:01
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Jerry Cotton posted:A quick count based on numbers I pulled out of
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Jul 15, 2015 13:31
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I wonder what the map would look like if you broke it down to highest sub-national unit. Edit: Found a different map which makes other claims. For example, the indigenous Sranan is the most common second language in Suriname, and German in Brazil. Sometimes the criteria are very inconsistent: quote:Norway quote:Denmark Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 13:36
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Greater Scandinavia wins for having parts on North America as well as Europe.
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Jul 15, 2015 13:58
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Ras Het posted:Because like literally every Argentinian is of Italian descent? Huh, well that explains the endemic incompetence.
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Jul 15, 2015 14:21
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Jerry Cotton posted:Yeah I mean why is that? Why did they migrate to Argentina much more than the other countries (apparently)? The three countries with the largest Italian diaspora communities are actually Brazil, Argentina, and the USA, in that order. They make up proportionally more of the Italian population, because Argentina was less populous when it began receiving Italian immigration. Very rapid population growth and lack of economic opportunities in Italy triggered massive emigration. e.g. in Southern Italy the amount of agricultural land could not increase, but the population exploded, so the people had to go somewhere. In the case of Argentina, that country was undergoing significant expansion south into the Pampas and Patagonia throughout the 19th century and it became a major exporter of agricultural commodities, such as wheat and beef. Available land for production and demand for product expanded far faster than the labor force. One way of addressing the resulting shortage was seasonal immigration of Italian agricultural laborers. Argentina is in the southern hemisphere and it's growing season is effectively opposite Italy's. So Italian farm workers would bring in the Italian harvest, sail to Argentina to do theirs, then back to Europe in time for the Italian harvest, around and around, giving them year-round employment in an ordinarily seasonal field. These people were called "golondrinos," after migratory swallows. This also happened in Brazil and Uruguay. Over time increasing numbers of Italians settled permanently in South America. In the later part of the mass emigration-period Argentina (as well as Brazil and Uruguay) began to develop industry in urban centers, and many Italian immigrants sought work there. Sao Paulo, Brazil's premier industrial city, is the largest "Italian" city outside Italy itself.
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Jul 15, 2015 15:09
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^^^^This is all accurate. Also you have to take into account the fact that Brazill is a bigger country, while many ´parts of Argentina are still desert so uninhabitable. Brazil also had/has a large proportion of native population and black slave descendants, while all those were erradicated in Argentina. So the European immigration in Argentina was much more impactful. It wasn't just Italian immigration, the came from all around Europe, ie Welsh immigration in Patagonia and Germanic/Scandinavian in Misiones/Corrientes/NE Argentina (were you'll see people with aboriginal traits mixed with people with blonde hair and blue eyes). I can count at least four different european countries amongst my great-grandparents. That said, the claim of that map is dubious at best. Nowadays almost no-one speaks Italian, most of the original Italian immigrants having died long time ago. The current generations don't bother learning it, unless they go to one of a couple of Italian style Lyceums. My bets on most widely spoken second language would be on Guarani or Portuguese, given the borders with Paraguay and Brazil and the recent immigration from those countries. E: Or English, seeing what it says for Chile. I thought they would exclude English since it's usually a given.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:10
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Ras Het posted:Second most spoken language: I'm surprised only Uruguay is Portuguese, but it does have the most convenient border, without massive jungles or mountain ranges in the way.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:26
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Ras Het posted:Second most spoken language: Guarani is more widely spoken than Spanish in Paraguay.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:30
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DrSunshine posted:No, that's wrong, if only because clearly "Greater USA" encompasses the entire globe. 54-40 or fight! 
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Jul 15, 2015 16:42
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TheImmigrant posted:Guarani is more widely spoken than Spanish in Paraguay. I've seen that episode of Monk
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Jul 15, 2015 16:44
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Golbez posted:I'm surprised only Uruguay is Portuguese, but it does have the most convenient border, without massive jungles or mountain ranges in the way.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:53
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the jizz taxi posted:I don't get this map's logic at all. Hell Greater Luxembourg should be even bigger than it is in that map. 
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Jul 15, 2015 17:40
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Abner Cadaver II posted:
54-40 the whole way across. 
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Jul 15, 2015 18:07
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Jerry Cotton posted:A quick count based on numbers I pulled out of I think what he meant is there were more people in Brazil to absorb the 1.5 million Italians, while 2 million was a far larger fraction of Argentina's population at the time.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:12
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Badger of Basra posted:I think what he meant is there were more people in Brazil to absorb the 1.5 million Italians, while 2 million was a far larger fraction of Argentina's population at the time. Argentina was very sparsely populated until the late 19th century. Brazil had had a huge slave population for centuries by that point.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:17
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TheImmigrant posted:Argentina was very sparsely populated until the late 19th century. Brazil had had a huge slave population for centuries by that point. e: It being relatively sparsely populated outside its slave population probably also explains why it's majority black/mixed race.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:39
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Most of Brazil's land area is a hellish, impenetrable bug-filled swamp so it makes sense
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Jul 15, 2015 18:42
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Though its population too took a long time to really take off. In 1800 its population was only slightly greater than that of Portugal, and it took till 1900 for it to overtake Spain, and it only reached that of Russia around 1990. It's certainly started making up for lost time recently though. Also, the Portuguese had much less of a hangup about coupling with Africans than other colonial powers in the New World. Galeano had a good analysis on how Brazil's development as a set of semi-autonomous capitancies can be seen in how its roads developed. At independence, there were few roads connecting them. Each capitancy had roads from the hinterland to the coast, for easy wealth extraction, but few connecting them to each other. TheImmigrant fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 18:43
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icantfindaname posted:Most of Brazil's land area is a hellish, impenetrable bug-filled swamp so it makes sense TheImmigrant posted:Also, the Portuguese had much less of a hangup about coupling with Africans than other colonial powers in the New World.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:48
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icantfindaname posted:Most of Brazil's land area is a hellish, impenetrable bug-filled swamp so it makes sense The Northeastern sertão was the focus of early development in Brazil. That area is semi-arid scrubland, subject to frequent drought.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Makes sense, since they're practically Africans themselves. *Puts on pith helmet and starts whistling "Rule, Britannia!"* I forgot in which novel I read it but I recall a Congolese character in it who was comparing Europeans (mostly Belgians) with the Portuguese, saying "the Portuguese were as bad as other white people, but at least they let you talk back and they appreciated a fair fight with you on equal footing".
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Jul 15, 2015 22:42
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Though its population too took a long time to really take off. In 1800 its population was only slightly greater than that of Portugal, and it took till 1900 for it to overtake Spain, and it only reached that of Russia around 1990. It's certainly started making up for lost time recently though. Each generation got exponentially hotter thanks to all that mixing?
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Jul 15, 2015 23:11
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This is from several pages ago, but Newfoundland is not a city. Politically loaded.
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Jul 16, 2015 01:57
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Nintendo Kid posted:54-40 the whole way across. Not enough. Make America stretch from pole to shining pole.
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Jul 16, 2015 02:17
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QuoProQuid posted:Not enough. I thought that happened last month thanks to the Supreme Court.
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Jul 16, 2015 02:22
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Count Roland posted:This is from several pages ago, but Newfoundland is not a city. Politically loaded. It never says the labels are cities. QuoProQuid posted:Not enough. The joke is that if you do 54-40 the whole way across, Canada is reduced to about the 108,000 residents of the Territories and then maybe 300,000 tops in the upper reaches of the current provinces that would remain (it's unclear). Yellowknife, population 19,234 would be the biggest "city" remaining.
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Jul 16, 2015 02:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Italians have a genetic affinity for the cowboy lifestyle. I would have thought more Indian.
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Jul 16, 2015 05:44
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Frostwerks posted:I would have thought more Indian. 
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Jul 16, 2015 05:46
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Nintendo Kid posted:It never says the labels are cities. This is unnecessary, really, since Canadians already are Americans in all but name. 
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Jul 16, 2015 14:05
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TheImmigrant posted:The Northeastern sertão was the focus of early development in Brazil. That area is semi-arid scrubland, subject to frequent drought. Was it? There's a sort of a green belt between the coast and the sertão, and that's where the cocoa and sugar grew.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:09
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Nintendo Kid posted:It never says the labels are cities. The point remains that northern Canada is empty, of course, but the politically-loaded thing is that a city with an official population of about 61,000 and a transient population of tens of thousands more is technically a hamlet.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:00
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DrSunshine posted:This is unnecessary, really, since Canadians already are Americans in all but name. I'll stop calling myself American when The rest of the world stops calling me American
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Jul 16, 2015 15:41
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