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Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

The Keeper sucks. He'd be better if he moved at Isaac speed, or if he had zero luck instead of negative luck. He's just a confusing mishmash as of now.

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Ariong
Jun 25, 2012

Get bashed, platonist!

Does the I AM ERROR room in womb 2 have both a trapdoor and a beam of light?

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Angel Rooms still suck only because Devil Rooms offer tremendously more useful things on a much more frequent basis. Godhead or Sacred Heart is a long hard gamble to put money on for a given run, whereas the Devil Room will much more frequently offer a plethora of very strong run-winning items for much less effort. While Afterbirth rooms do have a lot more extra things in it now, including new strong items like Holy Light, the spear, Halo, and Crown of Light, they're simply not consistent enough to be worth it and end up in Womb II with poo poo damage and all red hearts when you could have been rocking Maw of the Void or the Pact and Guppy.

Sanctum
Feb 14, 2005

Property was their religion
A church for one
How does tears delay work exactly?

I know whenever you have the max softcapped tears rate at 3 bars a -1 tear delay gives a small buff beyond the normal max, -2 pushes you up to an insane 5 tears bars, and -3 will max out the tear stat. But then I had this lost run where I got 1 tears down pill and thanks to capricon and mom's perfume x2 I had a -3 tears delay but my tears stat was still slower than normal thanks to a single tears down pill.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Sanctum posted:

How does tears delay work exactly?

I know whenever you have the max softcapped tears rate at 3 bars a -1 tear delay gives a small buff beyond the normal max, -2 pushes you up to an insane 5 tears bars, and -3 will max out the tear stat. But then I had this lost run where I got 1 tears down pill and thanks to capricon and mom's perfume x2 I had a -3 tears delay but my tears stat was still slower than normal thanks to a single tears down pill.

I'm pretty sure the common knowledge is that the bars on the stat screen are useless for telling you anything, and often outright lie. I think there's a few mods to show you a working exact stat sheet, though.

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT
How rare is the Mega Blast, exactly? I haven't bumped into it yet, even though I've been rerolling devil deals like crazy. It's the only thing I have left to find before I get 1001% and it's driving me nuts.

senrath
Nov 4, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!


Wugga posted:

How rare is the Mega Blast, exactly? I haven't bumped into it yet, even though I've been rerolling devil deals like crazy. It's the only thing I have left to find before I get 1001% and it's driving me nuts.

It's supposed to be about five times rarer than any other devil deal item.

Jusupov
May 24, 2007
only text

Wugga posted:

How rare is the Mega Blast, exactly? I haven't bumped into it yet, even though I've been rerolling devil deals like crazy. It's the only thing I have left to find before I get 1001% and it's driving me nuts.

I've seen it most often in the greed mode shop after picking up chaos and buying poo poo for a while. Or eden while resetting.

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

Jusupov posted:

I've seen it most often in the greed mode shop after picking up chaos and buying poo poo for a while.

Yeah, I thought this might be the most viable strategy. Played with Isaac and ended up getting Swallowed Penny + Chaos + Habit + Pyromaniac + Curse of the Tower. Charged my D6 with the Curse Room and got a ton of money on the side. Also got a God Head + Sacred Heart. I imagine this run will go rather smoothly now.

And that's everything done. :dance:

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer

AbDomen posted:

Conversely, all I have left is picking up Mega Blast from a devil room, and I keep bitching about how I get too many angel rooms. :(

(Seriously though, exit game, continue, angel statue will reappear and you can get both key pieces from the same room.)

Paying a devil beggar until he teleports away will decrease your Angel Room chances for that floor, hope this helps

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
Do Blood donation machines count as taking red heart damage for the chance at a Devil room/Angel room? What about going through curse room doors?

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer
No and Yes.

LibbyM
Dec 7, 2011

I've never liked that. Curse rooms are the same thing as a donation machine, willingly trading your health for the chance at items. It's a needless extra step to have to walk back to my curse room after finishing the boss.

Jusupov
May 24, 2007
only text

Jusupov posted:

3 gambling machines with high luck, all blow up with no dollar. Should I be doing this on normal or something?

dis astranagant posted:

Luck doesn't affect them, just the luck foot. And hard mode eats half your winnings.

Actually,

Slot Machine: Slot machines pay out more often with higher luck, but doesn't scale up to 100% payout chance. The increased payout chance is, however, enough to make the machine almost definitely profitable, and Pretty Fly is awarded more frequently.

Luck foot is for the portable slot and fortune teller which don't get better with just luck.

Unless that's all from rebirth and was changed for afterbirth and just not updated for the wiki.

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"
Had the most ridiculous run yesterday outside of the ones where I deliberately broke the game (and even then this was up there). Quad shot on the first floor, spoon bender on the second + incubus in the devil room, then brimstone on caves 1. :getin:

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
It Lives killed me in greed mode because it spawns at the top and I couldn't dodge the spinning brimstone :cripes:

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

RatHat posted:

Do Blood donation machines count as taking red heart damage for the chance at a Devil room/Angel room? What about going through curse room doors?

Things that take red heart damage preferentially don't count. Things that don't, do!

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
I ran into Eden's Blessing while I had Diplopia, and decided to see if it worked, just for kicks. Turns out that picking up 2 Eden's Blessings will start you out with 2 items on the next run. I managed to start out with Guppy's Collar and Brimstone. And then get Sacred Heart from an Angel Room later on. :unsmigghh:

Power of Pecota
Aug 4, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Jusupov posted:

I've seen it most often in the greed mode shop after picking up chaos and buying poo poo for a while. Or eden while resetting.

I'm preparing to just burn through all my Eden tokens immediately once I have it unlocked.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Dr. Fetus posted:

I ran into Eden's Blessing while I had Diplopia, and decided to see if it worked, just for kicks. Turns out that picking up 2 Eden's Blessings will start you out with 2 items on the next run. I managed to start out with Guppy's Collar and Brimstone. And then get Sacred Heart from an Angel Room later on. :unsmigghh:

I wonder if it'd be somehow possible to get two diplopia and an Eden's Blessing in the same room and duplicate them until your next character starts with every item.

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Logan 5 posted:

All I pretty much have left is beating Mega Satan with a most of the characters, but god it is such a slog trying to get Angel rooms, or get lucky and find dad's key/get out of jail free card.

There is nothing worse than getting one key piece and then never seeing another angel room.

They definitely need to fix this. You should at least only have to open that door up one time per character or something.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
Aha, got mega blast and 1001% at the very last devil room of a greed run. I was expecting to have to piece together a breaking run to get it :toot:

Mystery Prize
Nov 7, 2010
Wow, what a completely ridiculous run.

Start a hardmode run as Isaac, enter curse room that has 3 red chests, two of which contain Curse Of The Tower and Guppy's Head. Pick up the head, use it once, exchange it back for the D6 I started with, use D6 to reroll the two items into a Pentagram and The Mark. :eyepop:

Pick up Brimstone on the next floor's Devil room, giving me Leviathan. Caves 1 treasure room gives me Number One, and now I'm basically a god.

I breezed through every single hardmode unlock for Isaac I could on that run, including Hush and The Lamb.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

RatHat posted:

I wonder if it'd be somehow possible to get two diplopia and an Eden's Blessing in the same room and duplicate them until your next character starts with every item.

It wouldn't. You can only get Diplopia in the shop, so there's only one copy of it in any given run.

Managed to pick up Cricket's Head and some more damage ups on my Brimstone + Sacred Heart run. It took me 2 minutes instead of 5 to kill Hush. Hooray? Even then it still felt like it took too long to kill him. It's just really jarring to instantly kill everything and then having to plink away at a damage sponge for a while. And I'm pretty sure I just used up all my luck on that run, because Brimstone and Sacred Heart have to be one of the hardest combination of items to get in a given run.

Anchors
Nov 27, 2007

Dr. Fetus posted:

It wouldn't. You can only get Diplopia in the shop, so there's only one copy of it in any given run.


Not entirely true. If Eden herself starts with Diplopia, you could still get another copy in the store.

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

Anchors posted:

Not entirely true. If Eden herself starts with Diplopia, you could still get another copy in the store.

So you need Eden's blessings to get Diplopia to get many copies of Eden's Blessing.

Jusupov
May 24, 2007
only text
If you use a seed where you get eden's blessing in the item room can you then reset to have an extra item?

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Jusupov posted:

If you use a seed where you get eden's blessing in the item room can you then reset to have an extra item?

Nope. Eden's blessing has to be obtained on a regular run. Seeded or challenge runs just has it apply the tears up, not the extra item effect.

Tofu Injection
Feb 10, 2006

No need to panic.
I found a use for dunce cap.

Mystery Prize
Nov 7, 2010
The Wiz + Tractor Beam is legit, it basically just gives you 20/20, and also stacks with the actual 20/20 item or any other multishot.

The Wiz + Tiny Planet is also hilarious

that ivy guy
May 20, 2015

Kidney Stone has some interesting synergies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2F7dK3CGw

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

So technically you could get an Eden who starts with Eden's Blessing, Diplopia, then you could find Eden's Blessing and copy it, and another Diplopia and copy again, and thus have five Eden's Blessing, and then win and start with Eden to start with SEVEN items? :aaa:

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Black August posted:

So technically you could get an Eden who starts with Eden's Blessing, Diplopia, then you could find Eden's Blessing and copy it, and another Diplopia and copy again, and thus have five Eden's Blessing, and then win and start with Eden to start with SEVEN items? :aaa:

Get Eden's Blessing and Diplopia in the same room and you get unlimited.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

If I use joker/telepills to get into a devil room, and buy items with red hearts, does that "Count" as a devil room heart payment for the purpose of unlocking an angel room?

ed: to be clear, I know that using joker/telepills to get into the devil room doesn't "count" as a devil room visit, basically what I'm asking is if I buy items with hearts while inside it does that count against my chances for an angel room appearing

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 1, 2015

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
Using a joker card to get into a devil deal room isn't enough to let you start seeing angel rooms, but buying things with hearts while doing so is enough to prevent any angel rooms from spawning.

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer

Toxxupation posted:

If I use joker/telepills to get into a devil room, and buy items with red hearts, does that "Count" as a devil room heart payment for the purpose of unlocking an angel room?

ed: to be clear, I know that using joker/telepills to get into the devil room doesn't "count" as a devil room visit, basically what I'm asking is if I buy items with hearts while inside it does that count against my chances for an angel room appearing

It doesn't matter where you buy items with hears, even if you found an item with heart cost in the secret room and payed for it with health it would close off your angel rooms

Also the important thing to see is the devil room door, not the room, hence why teleport doesn't work

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

The Lost without the holy mantle is a better character than the keeper. The keeper is so loving worthless it's insane.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Though it's funny that even if the Keeper and no-Mantle Lost are really unfun, even THEY get the dodgeball team pick over Maggy first. I can't believe Maggy has been in this game since its very first alpha concepts, and to this day she remains the bottom ranked. There is just absolutely nothing fun or worthwhile for her.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

where is this ranking system

maggy is just low speed, yeah?

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ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!
magdalene is complete trash
at least the lost has flight and spectral tears

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