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Arcsquad12 posted:I don't like shows that treat me like an idiot. I also dislike when shows decide the best way to explain motivations or exposition is through speeches. The way a show conveys the importance of its content is important to me. Getting back into Zeta, I'm amazed at the worlds of difference between how it goes about world and character building compared to Unicorn. I think the key factor is how understated a lot of events in Zeta are, while Unicorn blows everything up to these insane levels. And yet Unicorn still comes off as derivative because of the fact it is made by fanboys who are excited to work on a Gundam show. I don't think it was the right direction to take as a sequel to the Tomino shows. In fact, I don't think it should have been a sequel at all, because then you are putting it in dialogue with the Tomino run series, and I find it running up short. The advantage that the 90s OVAs have is that they are telling their own stories on a limited level, which allows them to do their own thing and also to reinforce the larger events going on during the main franchise series. But a lot of Unicorn feels like it wants to go off in this wildly different direction, but also to wallow in self reference, like the show is having an identity crisis. You're the one assuming the show is treating you like an idiot instead of that just being the way the show is written, and in turn you're getting angry at the show for doing something it wasn't doing. In turn you're refusing to bend at all which is why you're changing tactics every post. You got angry at it for daring to say that war ended, and when it was pointed out, you got angry at it for being too short, and then when it was pointed out that in actual war terms it wasn't that short you're now getting angry at it for being too pretentious.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:42
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If you want to attack the frustration in my posts, fine. I'm trying to convey why I don't enjoy this show so much, and it's not always easy to put into words. I'm not trying to start a fight. Maybe Tomino shows train me to be a cynic so I'm baffled by a show's attempt at a "happy" ending. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jul 30, 2016 |
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Jul 30, 2016 23:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:If you want to attack the frustration in my posts, fine. I'm trying to convey why I don't enjoy this show so much, and it's not always easy to put into words. Well, the problem is that your arguments boil down to treating the show as attacking you or attacking Tomino's work depending. And while that's fine if you feel that way, it's also effectively hard to say anything in response to. I mean "Gundam Unicorn is derivative and follows the Gundam trend of referencing instead of doing new things" isn't a complaint anyone can object to be because it's true. Every Gundam show is too in love with going back to the Gundam tropes and Unicorn is by far one of the worst. However it's not doing that to be offensive or because it thinks it is that important. If you don't like the characters or the plotlines there's nothing wrong with that. It's when you treat the show like it is offensive and attacking you that it becomes sort of bewildering. I mean Unicorn has a boatload of problems. It's not even in my top 5 favorite Gundam shows and if it was it would be because of the handful of excellent character arcs rather than the work as a whole. I'm not trying to say it's flawless. I just think it's a bit odd that people act like Unicorn's ending was anything more than a super-blunt optimism vs nihilism story. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jul 30, 2016 |
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Jul 30, 2016 23:50
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It's a Gundam story about Gundam instead of a story in a Gundam setting. Which doesn't sound so uniquely derisive, but even the most callbacky of prior shows never really felt like that. Unicorn feels like it's going to bust out footage from Zeta or ZZ at any point like it's some kind of recorded footage to show at Captain Kirk's trial. ImpAtom posted:I mean Unicorn has a boatload of problems. It's not even in my top 5 favorite Gundam shows and if it was it would be because of the handful of excellent character arcs rather than the work as a whole. I'm not trying to say it's flawless. I just think it's a bit odd that people act like Unicorn's ending was anything more than a super-blunt optimism vs nihilism story. It's kind of weird how they can do characters like Riddhe, Marida, Zinnerman, and to an extent, Mineva, while still having the main character be Banagher Links, and the end of the show being like...baby's first conflict resolution.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:54
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muike posted:Unicorn feels like it's going to bust out footage from Zeta or ZZ at any point like it's some kind of recorded footage to show at Captain Kirk's trial.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:57
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muike posted:
At one point during Full Frontal's space odyssey timewarp, I swear there was some stuff that looked straight out of Char's Counterattack. Like the animation style was completely different.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:58
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Oh my god. You're probably right. "so how did you guys even get this footage of the battle from inside Texas or the White Base blowing up, or from that time Amuro ate sandwiches in a PTSD episode" Every time Unicorn feels like it could do something cool it looks at the camera, completely lets go of the idea and goes "Whoops! Dropped it" smiles roguishly and a laugh track plays
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Jul 30, 2016 23:58
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muike posted:It's a Gundam story about Gundam instead of a story in a Gundam setting. Which doesn't sound so uniquely derisive, but even the most callbacky of prior shows never really felt like that. They basically do. I mean Full Frontal is Char's voice acting saying Char's lines.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:59
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They should have had Gryps war footage from inside the theater where Quattro confronted Haman and Scricco in the first episode during Banagher's class.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:01
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ImpAtom posted:it's also effectively hard to say anything in response to. You have no response because unicorn is indefensible trash
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Jul 31, 2016 00:17
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mr. stefan posted:You have no response because unicorn is indefensible trash Good addition to the conversation mr. stefan! You did very good and we're all proud of you.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:21
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mr. stefan posted:You have no response because unicorn is indefensible trash Whenever people say anything positive about Unicorn you come up with these one-liners that say nothing at all
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Jul 31, 2016 00:23
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Consider, instead: addressing the points being made.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:24
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Like dang man seriously lol, look at this stuffmr. stefan posted:Unicorn is a poo poo mess of bad storytelling and it boggles my loving mind how willing people are to throw themselves onto a sword in its defense mr. stefan posted:lmao @ people who are so intellectually starved for passable writing that they think anything Unicorn does is remotely defensible mr. stefan posted:Unicorn is possibly the worst gundam possible to try and jump into as a new viewer, yes. Also the worst gundam. mr. stefan posted:lmao it's not "stuck up" to acknowledge that a work is doing the time honored entertainment industry thing of heavy misdirection to cover bad writing. Do you think Unicorn is the first time that a work presented itself as having depth and then used explosions to hide that that was a lie?
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Jul 31, 2016 00:28
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ImpAtom posted:Good addition to the conversation mr. stefan! You did very good and we're all proud of you. Eat poo poo The entirety of your contribution to any discussion on the subject has been to say the equivalent of "that's just, like, your opinion, man" and repeat it with increasing volume until people leave
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Jul 31, 2016 00:28
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Srice posted:Consider, instead: addressing the points being made. I'll address points being made when someone presents an argument in unicorn's favor that isn't the consumerist equivalent of Stockholm syndrome Like, I've written actual words about the problems Unicorn has in previous iterations of this thread and also elsewhere on the internet, but I'm not going to bother anymore until you fucks prove that your response to a multipoint argument isn't to either disengage entirely or take up a retreating motion while saying "but at the end of the day, how can you say something is poo poo if I don't know what poo poo is" and acting like this is the first persons fault (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 31, 2016 00:30
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Arguments being laid out and debated are cool, and it's a better way to post instead of getting weird and insulting towards people that like a thing you personally don't enjoy! Like dang man what is your problem
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Jul 31, 2016 00:30
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if only we could communicate our feelings better, if only we had some sort of new type of person
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Jul 31, 2016 00:31
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PBS Newshour posted:if only we could communicate our feelings better, if only we had some sort of new type of person Yeah. A new person. The type who could communicate perfectly, with no loss of understanding. Some kind of... X-Rounder.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:33
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mr. stefan posted:I'll address points being made when someone presents an argument in unicorn's favor that isn't the consumerist equivalent of Stockholm syndrome lol
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Jul 31, 2016 00:34
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mr. stefan posted:Eat poo poo Good addition to the conversation mr. stefan! You did very good and we're all proud of you. chiasaur11 posted:Yeah. A new person. The type who could communicate perfectly, with no loss of understanding. Clearly we just need to genetically engineer someone who can coordinate our conversations. We'll call them Cyber-X-Rounders.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:36
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah. A new person. The type who could communicate perfectly, with no loss of understanding. You are a herald for the new AGE of this thread chiasaur eleven.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:37
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they're called jedis
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Jul 31, 2016 00:39
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GulagDolls posted:they're called jedis Only the Sith deal in absolutes.  Unironic seriouspost: Gundam Unicorn has a lot of flaws but it has some pretty coherent and well thought out character arcs that make use of the setting without repeating existing ones. I've posted repeatedly before but Riddhe's arc is extremely strong because it represents a character who should exist in Gundam but doesn't. The One Year War should be a crippling fear for a lot of people in the way that World War III is these days. Someone who wholeheartedly WANTS to avoid that while not being entirely sympathetic is a really solid idea and by and large executed well. At worst it stumbles on the final step down Newtype lane but contrasting the optimistic Gundam kid with the guy going "BILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED HOLY poo poo" is a lot more compelling than contrasting him with Char 2.0. Marida and Zimmerman's arc is similarly very strong and again at worst it stumbles on the final point. I don't think it needed to precisely but I also understand why it did. It's not a surprise it's the high point for a lot of people. I honestly think most of the character arcs in Unicorn are very strong and injured only by Banagher being generally weak. Audrey would be a lot stronger if she wasn't tied into Banagher so heavily because he kind of drags something away from her decision to reject becoming the Zabi figurehead. The core plot is weak but it mostly serves as an excuse for these characters to interact and go about their arcs. It's not remotely the best Gundam series but being able to do complete coherent character arcs that make use of a setting and traits puts it ahead of something like 0083 or Gundam Age where can't even manage that. I don't like how it ended particularly and I think some of the character arc endings are too... safe and weak, but at its worst it's just kind of a completely average Gundam show with some strong ideas and a lackluster ending. The strong animation and visual design help elevate it but it's strictly mid-tier. Not best, not worst.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:50
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ImpAtom posted:A good Summary This is basically how I feel about the show, apart from my frustrations with the ending coming across more harshly. I just wish that the level of care applied to Zinnerman, Marida and Riddhe could have been translated to the actual plot, and if they had skimped on the ridiculous newtype nonsense to round the story out. I didn't even mention the Unicorn responding to Banagher's cry for help like it was a living being. (Then again, Norris's Gouf responded to his call in order to do a badass walkout.) There are a lot of little things that drag down the series for me. If I come off like I'm mad that the show is attacking me, or defiling Tomino, it's because there is evidence in the show that they can do better, and I feel let down by it. The strong supporting cast is proof that there is talent in the writer's department, but it is squandered on a plot that throws nuance to the wind.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:58
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I admit that I *like* Newtypism so that probably impacts how I view it. I don't like Newtypeism when it comes to glowing pink powerups but I do enjoy it as a weird psychic connection. Unicorn isn't my favorite execution of it (or even my favorite non-Tomino execution of it) by far but I like that it genuinely tries to focus on the empathy and unity elements even if it unavoidably devolves into super powerups by the end. (For the record my favorite non-Tomino use of Newtypeism is probably X Astray which is bizarrely accurate to UC Newtype rules for a SEED spinoff.)
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Jul 31, 2016 01:02
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Riddhe is definitely one of my favorite Gundam characters in recent history. Agreeing with how it's weird that a character like him hasn't been a common aspect of some of the UC sequels! Just one hosed up war that wipes out a lot of the population is plenty to make a lot of people freak out about any impending wars. And while there's some of that present in broad strokes (such as the Titans being formed) I can't think of any character pre-Unicorn with that mindset of being anti-war specifically for that reason. It's a show with a strong supporting cast tied around a protagonist I have no strong feelings for either way so that averages out to be pretty alright in my book.
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Jul 31, 2016 01:04
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Banagher could have been replaced with 3 corgis stacked on top of each other and I doubt much would change. In fact it might be better since it would make more sense to have the rest of the cast gravitate towards these dexterous dogs instead of a black hole of charisma.
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Jul 31, 2016 01:25
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The GIG posted:Banagher could have been replaced with 3 corgis stacked on top of each other and I doubt much would change. In fact it might be better since it would make more sense to have the rest of the cast gravitate towards these dexterous dogs instead of a black hole of charisma. Isn't he like a really strong Newtype? Maybe he's a Scirocco type and his Newtype powers take the form of putting the mental whammy on everyone. Does Unicorn go Newtypes hooray? I never finished it. But the Tomino UC Gundams I've seen pretty clearly reject the Deikun idea of fNewtypism. Newtypes do not solve all problems, nor does "understanding." Amuro and Char are great counterexamples of how that idea is nonsense. Kamille and Haman were another good counterexample. I loved that Kamille thought of Haman as some sort of demon after getting inside her head.
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Jul 31, 2016 02:50
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Bandager proves that newtype powers are no substitute for a personality.
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Jul 31, 2016 03:06
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Even so!
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Jul 31, 2016 03:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Isn't he like a really strong Newtype? Theres no rule that says a dog can't be a newtype.
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Jul 31, 2016 03:18
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The GIG posted:Theres no rule that says a dog can't be a newtype. Where are the other Newtype animals, Sunrise?
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Jul 31, 2016 03:29
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The GIG posted:Theres no rule that says a dog can't be a newtype. Air Bud would be a way cooler main character than Banagher. poo poo, I'd buy the VHS.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:36
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MonsieurChoc posted:Air Bud would be a way cooler main character than Banagher. poo poo, I'd buy the VHS. And he would be called: Scopedog .... wait.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:47
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He'd be in the GM Sniper K9 either way.
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Jul 31, 2016 05:02
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The clause in the laplace's box is really implausible and doesn't make that much sense and just feels like the writers wanted to say what they wanted rather than thinking through what made sense.
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Jul 31, 2016 05:15
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ImpAtom posted:Only the Sith deal in absolutes. This is pretty much along the lines of how I feel about Unicorn, though I give the show a lot of credit just on the music and visuals alone on top of this.
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Jul 31, 2016 06:22
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Has anyone here listened to the Gundam Symphonic Poem soundtrack. Gallant Char gets an awesome revision with full orchestra. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_grF2N3YQFY
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Jul 31, 2016 06:34
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It really does.
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