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fishmech posted:Ok so you're some kind of weirdo who apparently hasn't lost a large number of modern performances across legit theater, movies, concerts, etc? Because frankly you just made the dumbest possible argument for why ancient religions are bad. Well then there is the fact they fallow Gods that need blood to have power. Why fallow a creation that needs you to give power to them so they distribute it, rather then fallow the prime mover? That which has created all, that which is not subject to rules, but is the creator of the rules themselves? Josef bugman posted:Classic Greek, maybe not so much. But as a seperate arguement, did ancient Christianity change Roman attitudes towards women? Ancient Celtic/Germanic would be interesting, especially as I am sure that a lot of the religious rites the romans described just "upped the body count" as it were. I mean there wasn't really a sudden shift in what the Roman "Matrons" could do even after Christianity takes over. Nessus posted:So are you talking about like opening your own vein here or about sacrificing humans? What is my source for human sacrifce its attested that several times in times. I mean Cicero is rather apologetic in maintaining the procession on the 15th of may that involved hanging large puppets from a bridge never involved elderly men Then there is the Roman tendency to grab a few foreigners during times of emergency and sacrificing them to the Gods which I admit I got from Rubicon, which if I had it on me at this moment I could see where Tom Holland attests it/ Also Plutarch does attribute to a event where Gauls and Greeks were buried during the period of the Celtic invasions a century and a half earlier. Fianlly I need your sources for the wonderful Hellenic religion being so wonderful, for you seem to be so keen on defending it. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 00:23
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Mahoning posted:I dated a girl in college who wanted to become Catholic after a trip to Italy where we visited a lot of Catholic Churches and stuff. She was from this po dunk town in Ohio and when she told her mom she said something like "Catholics? Don't they worship some woman?" My brother straight up believed that Catholics didnt believe in Jesus. It just dumbfounded me, like how could this possibly have happened. He apparently had some weird amalgamation of Islam and Judaism in his mjnd when he thought of Catholics. Pennsyltucky, folks. ParliamentOfDogs fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 00:24
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Crowsbeak posted:Well then there is the fact they fallow Gods that need blood to have power. I'm pretty sure they don't leave their gods unplowed and unseeded. But let's go back to the point: your complaint was that in their theater they used real blood instead of fake blood sometimes, as if modern entertainment doesn't choose to do that as well.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:25
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Crowsbeak posted:Jupiter is merely a creation of the prime mover who has to worry about one of his demigods overthrowing him. Also I am referring to both the Greeks and the Romans having the belief about in times of disasters, take a few foreigners, and bury them to death. Also mutilating slaves for theater performances was not unheard of, and yes that blood was considered a sacrifice. I actually do have to grant you the facts about the Celts as they definitely did treat their women better then the Romans or the Greeks. (Germanic I will have to disagree when it comes to women, first there is the case of Ostrogoth in Italy went to restrict women in their numbers. It was their restriction on a women power that would give Justinian his case for reestablishing full Roman rule to Italy, also the Lombards definitely were not big on women having a independent role at all and they were not noted for being wannabe Romans ). Plus the roman Just as a quick question on the turn of phrase, do you mean "bury them alive?" or "kill them and bury them inside the city" for the bolded bit? During the Ostrogothic period I thought that most of them were Arian christians? Or is this during an earlier Gothic "invasion"? And yeah, Jupiter has many aspects, that does not mean he is not also one and all of them.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:27
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The particular version of the Bible that would be used (Cath or Prot) was a major issue. Although, iirc, that was mainly in Northern urban areas like NYC and Philly as opposed to the South.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:29
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This might be one of the dumbest derails I've seen this thread take in a while, but it is a Sunday so I'm not exactly sure what else we should be talking about.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:28
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WampaLord posted:This might be one of the dumbest derails I've seen this thread take in a while, but it is a Sunday so I'm not exactly sure what else we should be talking about. I mean, there are riots in Milwaukee under a right-wing sheriff and governor and their trying their hardest to escalate the situation to help their presidential candidate sooooo that might be worth circlejerking about.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:30
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WampaLord posted:This might be one of the dumbest derails I've seen this thread take in a while, but it is a Sunday so I'm not exactly sure what else we should be talking about. Oh come now, the Gods are always good for a laugh! As a political/ none Judaic religious question though, anyone have any good book recommendations about things like ghost dances and native american politics movements in general?
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Aug 15, 2016 00:31
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:My brother straight up believed that Catholics didnt believe in Jesus. It just dumbfounded me, like how could this possibly have happened. He apparently had some weird amalgamation of Islam and Judaism in his mjnd when he thought of Catholics. Pennsyltucky, folks. I grew up evangelical and was taught that Catholics worshipped Mary and were going to hell.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:32
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Robviously posted:I know this is from a couple pages but Wallingford was a bit of a hotbed for Klan activity to the point that they had a white supremacist hold a talk in the public library and didn't recognize MLK Jr. Day until the state made them in the 2000s. this actually makes sense to me on a personal level since my incredibly racist trump supporting uncle/cousins live in wallingford
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Aug 15, 2016 00:35
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fishmech posted:He's literally talking about like plays and poo poo. Apparently he hates that sometimes the ancients didn't have modern fake blood packs and so would use straight up superficial cuts for some blood to slop around on stage. So, I gather he's not a wrassling fan, then.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:36
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WampaLord posted:This might be one of the dumbest derails I've seen this thread take in a while, but it is a Sunday so I'm not exactly sure what else we should be talking about. sunday bloody sunday
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Aug 15, 2016 00:38
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My grandfather believes that Mexican/South American immigration is a plot by Catholics to take over the United States.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:39
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Josef bugman posted:Just as a quick question on the turn of phrase, do you mean "bury them alive?" or "kill them and bury them inside the city" for the bolded bit? Actually no he isn't because he is a creation of Fortuna, so remember if he is a creation he is bound by rules he cannot control creation therefore as he is aprt of it. Also why would the Romans suggest the Germans treated their women badly, then when the Germans take up as Regums of Italy they also treat their women badly? fishmech posted:I'm pretty sure they don't leave their gods unplowed and unseeded. But let's go back to the point: your complaint was that in their theater they used real blood instead of fake blood sometimes, as if modern entertainment doesn't choose to do that as well. Yeah if they just did that the Theatres wouldn't have been so reviled by the Christians they occasionally mind you, but did still do it mutilate slaves to achieve the sense they needed. WampaLord posted:This might be one of the dumbest derails I've seen this thread take in a while, but it is a Sunday so I'm not exactly sure what else we should be talking about.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:45
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DemeaninDemon posted:I'm really happy posters here are using uncuck in place of unskew when talking about Republican delusions. I hope it doesn't get wordfiltered like good ol' cuck
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Aug 15, 2016 00:47
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Pakled posted:I like to use this as an example to right-wing people of why worrying about Muslims and Mexicans doesn't make sense. Basically all the complaints the right has about immigration nowadays existed back around the turn of the century but applied to the likes of Italians and Poles and Jews. The real question here is one of assimilation. The Italian and Pole and Jewish cultures became a part of american culture, and with each generation italian polish and jewish children became more american. Today it seems we live in a world where that assimilation just doesn't happen and their cultures being adopted is decried as "Cultural Appropriation". I certainly dont have the answers, can cultures blend in the current climate like they did back then?
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Aug 15, 2016 00:50
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BonoMan posted:"He's a nagger." 
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Aug 15, 2016 00:50
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Crowsbeak posted:Also why would the Romans suggest the Germans treated their women badly, then when the Germans take up as Regums of Italy they also treat their women badly? Because they are, as you mentioned, aping the Romans? And if we are talking about the time period of Justinian then the Goths were Christians at the time. All be it the "wrong sort" of Christians, but they were still Christian. MattD1zzl3 posted:I certainly dont have the answers, can cultures blend in the current climate like they did back then? Why should someone who moves to your country be required to change themselves simply for your comfort, and then feel happy when you take their stuff and claim it is "honouring" them. And to answer the quoted question, the answer is usually "yes".
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Aug 15, 2016 00:52
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah if they just did that the Theatres wouldn't have been so reviled by the Christians they occasionally mind you, but did still do it mutilate slaves to achieve the sense they needed. Would you mind rephrasing this into a coherent sentence? Because it's pretty rich to take the complaints of a bunch of savages who literally eat the blood and flesh of their god seriously, as to how gross other people's blood & god rituals might be.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:53
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Crowsbeak posted:You do know that they were fine with blood letting in Theater right? As a form of sacrifice right? That blood letting was a major part of the ancient religion right? Just read Pagans reactions to Julian the Apostate to reestablish the old religion its all about blood sacrifice. Also I wonder if all of you would like to live in Ancient ROme what with their policies on women? Did you not read what I said or something? Mister Adequate posted:This but ironically. Basically all the dead religions of the world are better and cooler than the living ones. You're god drat right fuckin blood sacrifices are cool & good. Bet you even think the mesoamericans weren't hardcore to flay children alive in order to ensure a good harvest, smdh
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Aug 15, 2016 00:52
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MattD1zzl3 posted:The real question here is one of assimilation. The Italian and Pole and Jewish cultures became a part of american culture, and with each generation italian polish and jewish children became more american. Today we live in a world where that assimilation is resisted and their cultures being adopted is "Cultural Appropriation". I certainly dont have the answers, can cultures blend in the current climate like they did back then? It would take upwards of a century before a German family in the 19th Century would become "Americanized". It's taking about a generation for a Hispanic family today.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:53
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MattD1zzl3 posted:The real question here is one of assimilation. The Italian and Pole and Jewish cultures became a part of american culture, and with each generation italian polish and jewish children became more american. Today it seems we live in a world where that assimilation just doesn't happen and their cultures being adopted is decried as "Cultural Appropriation". I certainly dont have the answers, can cultures blend in the current climate like they did back then? Hm, that would be a good point if it were remotely factual.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:54
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fishmech posted:Would you mind rephrasing this into a coherent sentence? Because it's pretty rich to take the complaints of a bunch of savages who literally eat the blood and flesh of their god seriously, as to how gross other people's blood & god rituals might be. Ah, so Fishmech would you be fine with people mutilating others who might not even be consenting in theaters and then say it was necessary to please a God? Also are Christians required to hurt a person?
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Aug 15, 2016 00:56
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Unkempt posted:Huh. Beaker no 
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Aug 15, 2016 00:58
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Unkempt posted:Huh. Its Beautiful.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:57
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Crowsbeak posted:Ah, so Fishmech would you be fine with people mutilating others who might not even be consenting in theaters and then say it was necessary to please a God? Also are Christians required to hurt a person? Actors are consenting, friend. Not sure why you're so offended by the to-this-day practiced use of real blood in performance. I mean Christians literally enslaved millions of black people just 150 years ago and went on Crusades repeatedly for hundreds of years, so you don't get to fake concern about slavery and violence. Christians have demonstrably killed millions upon millions more people than ancient religion followers ever did, after all.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:58
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WampaLord posted:This might be one of the dumbest derails I've seen this thread take in a while, but it is a Sunday so I'm not exactly sure what else we should be talking about. Would you rather discuss this or gun chat? Cause you can only pick ONE.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:03
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Mr Interweb posted:Would you rather discuss this or gun chat? I have opinions on circumcision!
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Aug 15, 2016 01:07
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fishmech posted:Actors are consenting, friend. Not sure why you're so offended by the to-this-day practiced use of real blood in performance. I mean Christians literally enslaved millions of black people just 150 years ago and went on Crusades repeatedly for hundreds of years, so you don't get to fake concern about slavery and violence. Christians have demonstrably killed millions upon millions more people than ancient religion followers ever did, after all. Hmmm. So we were required to kill all those people? I mean say compared to needing to conquer for the glory of Roma? Or needing to kill those who did not sacrifice for Romas continual victory? I mean I guess you also condemn Tengrism too since its followers killed more then any pre modern peoples right? Also why aren't you all singing the praises of Hellenism. I mean you guys suggested we'd be better practicing it now? You're all fine with people being coerced to have their faces mutilated for a paly? With killing and then incinerating lots of animals just to please a god? Seems wasteful, I thought you "rational" people all were against that. You know if you're going to suggest somethings awesome you better provide reasons for fallowing it. Also circumcision probably should be banned or only allowed on those who decide to receive it after 18.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:06
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MattD1zzl3 posted:The real question here is one of assimilation. The Italian and Pole and Jewish cultures became a part of american culture, and with each generation italian polish and jewish children became more american. Today we live in a world where that assimilation just doesn't happen and their cultures being adopted is decried as "Cultural Appropriation". I certainly dont have the answers, can cultures blend in the current climate like they did back then? Yes. Completely. It's just it's going to be more based in the mixed salad model than the melting pot model. You should look at second generation Americans like most East Asians and many Africans (separate from slave-descended blacks). They are very much American in attitude, and if they hold respect for their ancestry, it's often in a holiday/dinner type of way. They will watch football on Sunday and then get together with their parents for traditional celebrations. Yes, they're not going to be as friendly to their holidays becoming bastardizations like St. Patrick's day or Cinco de Mayo, but they're going to have an open mindset for those who are actually interested in cultural exchange and not creating kitsch. The "not assimilating" is basically a lie that's been thrown against every group of immigrants that slightly off put WASPs. I don't think they'll be coopted into Whiteness if that what you mean by assimilation, but they will be Americans in the sense of supporting a multicultural society that is not tied up in the ways of the past, takes the best of everything, and combines it to make something new. I joke but the Burger King Kids' Club view of America.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:08
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I was always confused about the Catholics aren't real Christians, and the general hate of them growing up as I was raised Catholic. To me it just meant there was some ceremonial differences and later on realization of there being a Pope and a hierarchy that Protestants lacked, but over all, it seemed the same. It wasn't until I started studying American history that I realized that Anti-catholic sentiments existed and just how wacky they are. I have to gather that they saw the Pope as exerting some undue influence on all Catholics. Like all he'd have to say is cut off your left hand and everyone would do it instantly. It was just so weird. Then there's the obvious anti-immigrant angle, which probably has more to do with it, because Americans do love to hide behind the concept of "Freedom" to justify their being racist. I actually think Al Smith and Obama have a lot in common; both had a lot of really horrible poo poo slung at them, pretty much made up wholesale and for which there really was no defense. Lucky for Obama this wasn't enough to sink him. Probably helped that unlike Hoover, Bush had left the economy in tatters and the Republicans had lost much of their popularity. Historians have written that the Depression would have been significantly less severe and shorter if Smith had been President, as he would not have had the 'm a self made man so therefor everyone can pull themselves by their bootstraps" attitude of Hoover. I forgot who it was, but someone that was unpopular said they supported Hillary, and everyone was all "Look at the terrible people that support Crooked Hillary!" but Trump gets nods from straight up Neo-Nazi's and KKK grand wizards and they're all "Well, you can't control who supports you".
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Aug 15, 2016 01:09
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Subvisual Haze posted:I have opinions on circumcision! loving Intactivists. Goatman Sacks posted:I mean, there are riots in Milwaukee under a right-wing sheriff and governor and their trying their hardest to escalate the situation to help their presidential candidate sooooo that might be worth circlejerking about. It's been more than a year since the last confirmed Milwaukee Lion sighting. What if he's been biding his time?
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Aug 15, 2016 01:11
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Crowsbeak posted:Hmmm. So we were required to kill all those people? I mean say compared to needing to conquer for the glory of Roma? Or needing to kill those who did not sacrifice for Romas continual victory? I mean I guess you also condemn Tengrism too since its followers killed more then any pre modern peoples right? Also why aren't you all singing the praises of Hellenism. I mean you guys suggested we'd be better practicing it now? You're all fine with people being coerced to have their faces mutilated for a paly? With killing and then incinerating lots of animals just to please a god? Seems wasteful, I thought you "rational" people all were against that. You know if you're going to suggest somethings awesome you better provide reasons for fallowing it. Also circumcision probably should be banned or only allowed on those who decide to receive it after 18. If you asked the popes and other Christian leaders of Europe, they would certainly tell you mass murder was needed for Christianity. IF you talked to church leaders in the South and elsewhere, tons would tell you that slavery was absolutely necessary. Your little freakout over blood being used in performances pales in comparison. Also bro, people get themselves "mutilated" for performances all the time still. You act like you've never even heard of anything more intense than an elementary school presentation where all the kids play trees! You'll apparently poo poo yourself the first time you watch an hour of music videos from 1988.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:11
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fishmech posted:I'm pretty sure they don't leave their gods unplowed and unseeded. AtraMorS fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 01:12
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:My brother straight up believed that Catholics didnt believe in Jesus. It just dumbfounded me, like how could this possibly have happened. He apparently had some weird amalgamation of Islam and Judaism in his mjnd when he thought of Catholics. Pennsyltucky, folks. That's a special kind of dumb since both Jews and Muslims believe in Jesus though (just not as the messiah). IIRC in Islam Jesus's role is to come back as the rear end-kicking Destroyer of the Faithless that Republicans like to envision him as too.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:12
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fishmech posted:If you asked the popes and other Christian leaders of Europe, they would certainly tell you mass murder was needed for Christianity. IF you talked to church leaders in the South and elsewhere, tons would tell you that slavery was absolutely necessary. Your little freakout over blood being used in performances pales in comparison. Yeah most of them are not Slaves. Also I do submit Christianity has its failings when its comes to its leadership, but their failing to live up to what was required doesn't make it wrong. The Hellenic religion was brutal because it called for brutality, that is the difference. Also I see no defense for Roma needing millions of Gauls, Iberians , Hellenes, Anatolian, Carthagenians, and Jews murdred so that her glory could be unquestioned. All that was required for her to achieve power and to have favor from the Gods. If you asked all but except a few Neoplatonists they would say it was good that this had happened. Evil Fluffy posted:That's a special kind of dumb since both Jews and Muslims believe in Jesus though (just not as the messiah). IIRC in Islam Jesus's role is to come back as the rear end-kicking Destroyer of the Faithless that Republicans like to envision him as too.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:18
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I guess that the idea of a Trump presidency and the deluded fanboys running the nation according to Drudge has finally made some of these guys see the light.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:19
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I have to give Trump credit for making some half realize that they might just have helped create this monster.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:20
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foobardog posted:In theory, this game of increasing the boundaries of whiteness could have been played with Arabs, Persians, Latinos, East Asians, South Asians, and possibly even middle-class blacks. The Republicans were really on a roll for a bit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/essay-how-the-republican-party-alienated-the-once-reliable-muslim-voting-bloc/2012/11/15/23e2af70-2da5-11e2-9ac2-1c61452669c3_story.html posted:In the 2000 election, approximately 70 percent of Muslims in America voted for Bush; among non-African-American Muslims, the ratio was over 80 percent. Btw if you google the topic, one of the first hits is the "Mid East Forum" which has an article questioning this WaPo stat, but MEF is a hardcore right-wing blog run by Daniel Pipes, the guy who coined the term "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" so grain of salt there. I'm having a harder time googling up numbers on Persians, but found an article saying that in 2012 only 55% of Iranian Americans were backing Obama since they were disappointed by his Iran policies. I'd be very curious to see how that vote broke on Reagan in the 1980s, since I could see a lot of wealth Iranian expats spitting mad at the ayatollahs and backing tough talk to re-install the old regime. Though my impression is that not unlike the Cubans, the descendants of people who left Iran for political reasons are a lot more mellow about it these days, and/or favor improving ties with their country of family origin.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:22
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah most of them are not Slaves. Also I do submit Christianity has its failings when its comes to its leadership, but their failing to live up to what was required doesn't make it wrong. The Hellenic religion was brutal because it called for brutality, that is the difference. Also I see no defense for Roma needing millions of Gauls, Iberians , Hellenes, Anatolian, Carthagenians, and Jews murdred so that her glory could be unquestioned. All that was required for her to achieve power and to have favor from the Gods. If you asked all but except a few Neoplatonists they would say it was good that this had happened. The Christian religion is brutal because it has constantly called for brutality for nearly 2000 years. The Christians slaughtered and ensalved almost the entire native population of the Americas and vast amounts of Africans and Asians while they were at it. Clearly the Christian is a brutal man, and is definitely worse than the Roman no matter how you look at it. Meanwhile, you apparently can't handle anything as tame as a KISS concert without freaking out about mutilation.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:25
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