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just realized jungle sion probably gets a nice boost out of killing 6 wraiths and 12 krugs every clear
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Nov 14, 2016 20:09
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How Rude posted:you could also argue that vision control should be a team effort and also limited wards make it so that proper warding is more helpful than carpet bombing the whole loving jungle in vision because your whole budget is only for that Yeah, I'm not sure exactly how having one person whose sole responsibility is vomiting out wards would actually improve the vision game in any substantial way. Are we still assuming that there'd be Sweepers in this world, or would we return to the horrible old days of Oracle's? ArbitraryC posted:Is he? I saw him a bunch in previous seasons but in this last one up to plat it seemed like support power pick was janna (and pre-nerf raka but she usually got banned). He's at about a 23-24% average pick rate in Plat+, whereas Janna's hovering at around 15-16%. It might vary based on region, but he's still played plenty.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:10
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I'm cool with making wards less of a one-man job because I'd like dota 2 and league to be different games (the addition of Octarine Core and % spell damage on INT triggers me enough), and while dota2 supports are fun in that they are really powerful at all stages of the game, it's still fun to be able to have a bunch of cool support actives to look forward to and not have tedious ward busywork lumped entirely on your shoulders.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:17
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stump collector posted:just realized jungle sion probably gets a nice boost out of killing 6 wraiths and 12 krugs every clear I might have to try this out. Wonder if it'd be a wash given how much longer it takes for camps to respawn.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:51
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Neurolimal posted:I'm racist against you. If Rito ends up killing Veigar, Nasus, or Sion i'm going to come to your house and combo burst you. Well yeah, a lot of ADC do well, but he was asking if there was anything on Graves tier specifically.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:06
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They should leave anyone who got bugged into bronze there so they can prove to us there's no such thing as elo hell. Just my opinion.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:09
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Re: support chat http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/free-rotation/some-thoughts-support looks like riot is going to put a bunch of supports in the free rotation and are going to look again into making supports more appealing e; Especially relevant to ward discussion quote:Is Sightstone in the right place as a mandatory 800g first buy? Are there other adjustments to the vision game that would be good both for the experience of playing support and the game in general? Can't wait to see what crazy shenanigans Riot has in mind for vision next. To be fair trinkets did work out quite well and the removal of green wards wasn't terrible, so I hope it'll be nice
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Nov 14, 2016 21:19
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Lovechop posted:are any other ranged ad's super good in 3s in your experience? i've been playing only quinn but wondering what else is good There are Twisted Treeline meta sites. According to this one: http://www.theshadowisles.com/marksman Caitlyn and Lucian are the closest in strength. But the big advantage of Graves is that he's top tier marksman for a 2/1 team comp and a top tier solo top for a 1/1/jungle comp.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:26
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^^^ ty that's useful! ^^^Work Friend Keven posted:They should leave anyone who got bugged into bronze there so they can prove to us there's no such thing as elo hell. Just my opinion. its part of a new game mode where methanar tries to carry you out but its totally impossible
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Nov 14, 2016 21:42
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Would Ivern be good on TT? I feel like the really early and fast denial of wolves to your enemy jungler would be phenomenal but after that Idk if his clear would just be abysmal
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Nov 14, 2016 21:45
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So, a full week and nearly 20 million plat+ games into patch 5.22, MF is hovering around 50% winrate. I'd say that this was predictable given the nerfs to her favourite items and penetration in general, but lolalytics shows that Duskblade and the rest of the Korean MF items hold steady at 55+% winrates, and so do lethality runes. I'm starting to wonder if her old build isn't perhaps still both optimal and powerful and if the statistical drop in her performance isn't just people looking at the patch notes, panicking, and building suboptimal poo poo like ER or IEdge instead of what still works.
Aumanor fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 21:48
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Lovechop posted:^^^ ty that's useful! ^^^ I want to iterate that if you can reliably get Graves + Braum (both god tiers on shadow isles) you're pretty much set for the game.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:50
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Kashuno posted:Re: support chat http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/free-rotation/some-thoughts-support I think the support role is in a great place in terms of gameplay. The new items are cheap, gold efficient, and have interesting effects. There is a decently-sized pool of champions to choose from with 4 distinct laning playstyles within the role. The only thing that kinda sucks about the gameplay itself is that support champions' power typically scales with levels (by increasing spell ranks) moreso than gold, and supports are always comparatively underleveled compared to the enemy team if they are even, behind, or even slightly ahead. Roaming is punished by losing out on XP. I'm not sure how they get more people to pick the role. MMOs have the same problem--DPS players are abundant and tanks/healers are in short supply. WoW for example incentivizes people to play those roles by providing extra rewards when there aren't enough in the queue by giving you a satchel that contains a decent amount of gold, consumables, and a very small chance at rare pets/mounts. The analogue for League would be offering bonus IP or other minor rewards (icons or ward skins, or maybe even a small chance at a Hextech gemstone). They should also do something to have their contributions recognized better in-game, such as what HotS (lol) does with "Role Contribution" by having damage taken for tanks and heals/shields for supports. Ultimately though I don't think much needs to change unless evening out the queue is a huge priority to them; the role is fun for the people who like it, and I think most people just don't like the inherent idea of being a force multiplier/playmaker rather than a carry.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:28
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Servaetes posted:I think after a lot of patches to help him out and some desperately needed hotfixes he was going to be good or decent, so I'm glad to see that refuted It just took for loving ever. gvibes posted:I apparently like the try-not-hard flex queue. I was a lifetime 2-8 in ranked games, then this happened in my first flex queue game: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2342998162/232831107?tab=overview 
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Nov 14, 2016 23:46
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I think if rito fixed their broken grade system people doing supportier jobs in general would feel more appreciated. As both Jungler and Support you're gonna get a higher score if you play like a carry while you might barely squeek by with an S- as 0/0/20 janna 69% participation janna. That's with changing 0 game mechanics. It basically rewards you for doing everything wrong from taking kills to taxing lanes, as long as your team still wins you'll get a higher score than not doing that. Game mechanics wise it's harder because what a supp often does is deny enemy teams gold so giving them bonus gold on top of that just to make them feel more productive would be a questionable move. Like sure clutch heals/shields before lethal damage comes in is a good play but your team as a whole is already rewarded when that person doesn't die, that's 300 less gold for your opponents at least and possibly extra gold on your carries if that meant they could turn there's really no mechanical need to reward it beyond that. Supps already have a bunch of cool cheap to build active items to play around with that are far cooler than just stacking stats. I guess they could make it more transparent when supps are doing well (tho in my experience good players usually already recognize this and say positive stuff in teamchat) but mechanics wise i don't think they really need to change anything.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:05
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ArbitraryC posted:(tho in my experience good players usually already recognize this and say positive stuff in teamchat)
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Nov 15, 2016 00:20
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Elentor posted:I want to iterate that if you can reliably get Graves + Braum (both god tiers on shadow isles) you're pretty much set for the game. Sorry for asking for TT advice every time you pop up but do you like the sup adc more than jungle? Do you just constantly push then roam into the jungle? Thanks for your TT thoughts in advance, I like it way more than SR. Who else do you see as strong or a sleeper pick?
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Nov 15, 2016 00:21
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Everyone does well on janna and never dies and gets a high kp so you need wards destroyed (or kills) to stand out 
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Nov 15, 2016 00:29
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kingcobweb posted:Definitely. Stuff like "gj vayne" Yeah awhile back I hit a 4-man Nami wave whose knockup allowed Darius to get in range to E all 4 people. My team was like "OMG amazing E darius" afterwards. Unlucky.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:31
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My favorite is "(support) is loving worthless, they're 0/2" or something when it's 0/2/25 and I/they've been saving people's asses nonstop all game.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:23
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:Sorry for asking for TT advice every time you pop up but do you like the sup adc more than jungle? Do you just constantly push then roam into the jungle? Thanks for your TT thoughts in advance, I like it way more than SR. Who else do you see as strong or a sleeper pick? Sup ADC is stronger if you know how to play it. It requires some practice to pull it off. It only works if you know how to play aggressively and do the map rotations properly with it, because if you're too slow you'll just lose the match. However if you can do the PVE part of it you can steamroll almost every game. Graves + Braum is insanely strong because it allows you to survive and disengage whichever few situations you run into that would be bad for you in the jungle. I didn't see anything last season that stood out, but there are a few AP picks that I still don't see mentioned very often and I didn't see included in the shadow isles. Kayle is always a good pick if picked by a Kayle main or someone with good mechanics. Plus Kayle can go both top and bot. Turtling against a TT team with a Kayle is extremely hard when they're ahead. Rumble is almost never mentioned. Rumble is very strong mathematically speaking and deals a lot of invisible damage that just accumulates over the match. The ult is really good in a map as small as TT, you can cover a lot of routes with it. No one ever cares about Rumble and the enemy team never feels like he is the threat, so even if they're target-banning your team they'll likely prioritize the jungler.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:29
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Please don't make support more "appealing" there are enough bad thresh and blitzcrank players out there.ImpAtom posted:My favorite is "(support) is loving worthless, they're 0/2" or something when it's 0/2/25 and I/they've been saving people's asses nonstop all game. Same people would also complain if you got a kill.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:31
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How much does the new keystone do for Poppy? Thinking of picking her up as a bodyguard toplaner for the assassin meta.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:32
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stump collector posted:just realized jungle sion probably gets a nice boost out of killing 6 wraiths and 12 krugs every clear It is exactly as good as you think it is Which is to say loving incredible Add Colossus and watch as you become an unkillable blob of angry CC that still wont die even after dying because lol spirit visage
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Nov 15, 2016 01:33
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Aumanor posted:So, a full week and nearly 20 million plat+ games into patch 5.22, MF is hovering around 50% winrate. I'd say that this was predictable given the nerfs to her favourite items and penetration in general, but lolalytics shows that Duskblade and the rest of the Korean MF items hold steady at 55+% winrates, and so do lethality runes. I'm starting to wonder if her old build isn't perhaps still both optimal and powerful and if the statistical drop in her performance isn't just people looking at the patch notes, panicking, and building suboptimal poo poo like ER or IEdge instead of what still works. Peep that 62.2% winrate on the full lethality setup, too. Wasn't the ArPen MF build 'totally gutted and worthless'? (I was wrong about Duskblade being bad on her apparently, and I'll cop to that. But that dogpile where people tried to say MF was gonna get ruined is loving hilarious now that we have data to look at)
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Nov 15, 2016 01:34
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I think i have a problem, and that problem is i'm really liking Alistar support right now.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:46
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Chuckle posted:I think i have a problem, and that problem is i'm really liking Alistar support right now. Alistar, even with his reworks, just has so many better options in newer champions. But nothing beats the simple fun of a good Alistar game, where nobody on the enemy team gets to do what they want, ever.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:51
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I'm kind of amazed that new Alistar isn't doing better data wise. He feels completely broken.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:52
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a medical mystery posted:How much does the new keystone do for Poppy? Thinking of picking her up as a bodyguard toplaner for the assassin meta. I'd rather have stormraider's for cheese
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Nov 15, 2016 02:01
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kingcobweb posted:I'm kind of amazed that new Alistar isn't doing better data wise. He feels completely broken. He really does, i dont know if this is a product of flex queue being what it is right now or not, but i've had some good success with him. 
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Nov 15, 2016 02:05
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kingcobweb posted:I'm kind of amazed that new Alistar isn't doing better data wise. He feels completely broken. I straight up played him for the first time in a while and totally forgot he got reworked, I just wanted to try him with the new tank mastery. Seemed broken as gently caress.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:12
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DEAR RIOT GAMES, I walked into a five person invade as Alistar, pressed Q, and got a shield that was almost half my health bar. It owned. Thank you for your wonderful game. Sincerely, Jesse
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Nov 15, 2016 02:15
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Elentor posted:Sup ADC is stronger if you know how to play it. It requires some practice to pull it off. It only works if you know how to play aggressively and do the map rotations properly with it, because if you're too slow you'll just lose the match. However if you can do the PVE part of it you can steamroll almost every game. Graves + Braum is insanely strong because it allows you to survive and disengage whichever few situations you run into that would be bad for you in the jungle. Is Darius still really good?
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Nov 15, 2016 02:17
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kingcobweb posted:DEAR RIOT GAMES, Honestly playing ali supp with that new mastery just made me wanna try dumb stuff like mao. Basically any hard or pseudo hard engage tank seems like they'd be broken with it, I bet even voli support is kinda viable again now.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:19
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Amumu actually got a huge powerspike with it too, not to mention his early game clear is way better now. Raptors > Wolves > Blue > Gromp loving owns, and he doesn't really need a leash that way. Edit: also interesting to note is that for some reason starting Raptors at level 1 gives you more experience than starting at another camp; you get to like a third of the way to level 2 off of it. Mystery Prize fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:16
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who's ready for scoreboard.jpg http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2346788864/32063712/eog we had 3 zzrots in a lane at all times
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Nov 15, 2016 04:45
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So, how are AP in every lane teams doing now that locket is lovely?
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Nov 15, 2016 04:51
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Argona posted:who's ready for scoreboard.jpg Holy poo poo, four members of a team with 22 deaths combined and twitch with 19
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Nov 15, 2016 04:56
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:I'm not sure how they get more people to pick the role. You can't, really. Incentives will only go so far, and even clever or interesting designs for support champions (like Bard) aren't really enough to hook a huge number of people in. The big issue is that it's a role that inherently is there to funnel power into someone else. You're trading off your health and mana in lane to let someone else get ahead. You're giving them lane gold to buy items with so that they can be the big hero and deal 30,000 damage a game while you sit back and burp out some CC or a shield every once in a while. There are people who like doing this sort of helper role - I happen to be one of them - but they're not the majority by any stretch of the imagination, and you can't cajole people into playing it if they find the role ultimately unappealing. The other aspect to this is the perception of the role itself. For a lot of people, the perception of the role is one where you lack agency: the game's out of your hands, and you're merely trying to keep the real stars of the show (the ADC, the midlaner, etc.) alive. It's not that you aren't contributing to the victory any - a good support is a massive asset to a team, regardless of what they're playing - but that your contribution often feels vague and hard to quantify. Maybe your Janna Q really did save your ADC from certain doom, but you're not an oracle and can't see alternate realities. By comparison, I can pretty easily see someone's healthbar vanish into smoke if I hit them with a full Vel'Koz combo. It's that immediate, visceral feedback of "you did great" vs. "you hosed up" that's missing from a lot of supports that makes people feel like they have little to no control over the course of the game when playing them. For what it's worth, I don't think support's in a bad position right now. Traditional supports like Janna are doing just fine and dandy, and carry supports like Zyra and Brand are there and perfectly viable for people who want to play them. They could just increase support gold to be equivalent to other roles, but you'd risk teams running goofy duo ADC lanes or running even more mages in bot lane than there are right now and pushing out traditional supports (who simply cannot compete with the damage output of, say, a Zyra with a midlaner's budget in midgame). Even if they did this, I have a feeling support would continue to be underplayed, because there's a stigma surrounding the role: that you're the guy who has to constantly keep everything warded by yourself and that you have to play some low-damage CC bot like Alistar or Janna. You can very easily lock in Zyra or Vel'Koz right now and hoist the game on your shoulders, but people still aren't doing that due to preconceived notions about the role. Vermain fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 05:17
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If supports get a laner's budget they're not supports any more. Part of what makes a support champ a support is that they're played because they don't need gold to be useful. If they got the same gold without CSing, why bother playing Zed mid when you could "support?"
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Nov 15, 2016 05:37
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