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ukle posted:13% is a colossal amount in the FTP system and would take Labour into a majority government. Very much depends on where that 13% is - look at the difference in seats between Labour and the Alliance in the 83 election versus votes, or look at how many seats UKIP got for their vote vs the Lib Dems in 2015 for a more recent display of the problem. MikeCrotch posted:Australia is simultaneously one of the least densely populated countries on earth and one of the most heavily urbanised. A ridiculous proportion of the population live in a tiny few dots on the huge continent, it's actually pretty dense where people actually live. It really isn't - the densest populated parts of Australia are about as densely populated as the least populated bits of the UK. Perhaps you're thinking of Canada? They seem to do alright without needing off-shore rape camps. HJB posted:People don't hate immigrants (at least, they didn't and they wouldn't), they hate the negative impact of the sheer number of immigrants on their lives. Congrats on making the favourite argument of the racists! If this was remotely true, then people would be more anti-immigration in the parts of the country that have more immigrants (the only part of the UK where this is remotely close to happening is Slough) rather than what we actually see where it's the most painfully white areas of the country who complain the most.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:27
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Seeing all these town halls in the US with senators getting ripped a new one, I keep wondering what would happen if Corbyn/other senior Labour figures went out and did some 'Opposition's Question Time' town-hall type events in some of these post-industrial/Brexit communities like Stoke, Collinghurst, Merthyr Tydfil... aka the 'Labour heartlands' which John Harris has spent a lot of time writing and talking about over the past few years. McDonnell this morning kept saying 'we have to listen to people now' and everyone keeps saying that, but there don't seem to be any ideas about how Labour can actually get its message out there to an apathetic/disillusioned public. Perhaps that's because somehow we still don't seem to have a tangible and unique message, even though that's what Corbyn was elected to create & promote (i.e. anti-austerity). Anyhow, I'd be interested in seeing someone go out there and actually try and talk to people (in a closer/less moderated setting than QT) about what's gone wrong with the economy since 1979 and push some ideas about how Labour would turn things around. Might get torn to shreds by the rabid mob of course but hey. ukle posted:Its going to be Clive Lewis if the rumours are true of Owen Smith and others trying to get him to stand. Dan Jarvis is far to unknown with the general populus and will give another sense of 'who' that Owen Smith had when he stood, while Clive Lewis has been in the news, doesn't have a bad rating and appears to have a good rating with the membership. What are Jarvis's political positions? Do we know? I had him pegged as a soft-New Labour guy along the lines of Starmer for some reason. He's no great anti-austerity/neoliberalism champion obviously.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:29
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ookiimarukochan posted:Congrats on making the favourite argument of the racists! If this was remotely true, then people would be more anti-immigration in the parts of the country that have more immigrants (the only part of the UK where this is remotely close to happening is Slough) rather than what we actually see where it's the most painfully white areas of the country who complain the most. You've forgotten about Boston.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:34
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mehall posted:Perhaps people who believe in the aims of the Labour party but are unsatisifed with the direction it is currently taking should join the Labour party so they can be involved and try and bring about the version of the party they belueve will be best for the country. They did, and voted for Jeremy Corbyn. Like me.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:36
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Fangz posted:please list 3 good things about Blair and New Labour Sure Start, Good Friday Agreement, minimum wage.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:41
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Jesus Christ https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/835107302692749312
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Feb 24, 2017 13:42
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forkboy84 posted:Who? Yvette Cooper? One of the relative unknowns from 2010 is my bet
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Feb 24, 2017 13:44
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Fangz posted:Let's hold hands and try and have a kumbaya moment. I'm not very fond of Tony Blair but life in this country was good when he was running it. People weren't relying on food banks or dying because of cuts to the NHS. The Iraq war was complete bullshit but how anyone can look back at Labour's run and think anything other than, "Life was so much better than it is under the Tories today" is insane. I like Corbyn because he wants to enforce the socialist values that make Britain great and tug politics back towards the left which is desperately needed right now but the by-election results lead me to believe that honestly, it doesn't matter who Labour picks as a candidate because they'll lose regardless. Their problem isn't a Corbyn/Blairite problem. Corbyn isn't doing very well, but Miliband was a Blairite and he suffered a horrific defeat. I don't think that Labour could field any candidate that would win an election not because of problems within the party, but because of problems with the electorate. The only way things will change is if Brexit ends up being the disaster everyone fears it will be, the NHS dies and then the population of the UK finally get the wake up call that they need. It will be all too late by then anyways, but it's clear that far too many people are happy with what's happening in the country for Labour to oppose anything. I'd love to be wrong but poo poo's hosed.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:46
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 thats really something
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Feb 24, 2017 13:48
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https://twitter.com/ONS/status/835095696772591617 those are some pretty well-heeled first timers
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Feb 24, 2017 13:49
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Blair did good things for LGBT rights. I'm counting that as 4 things
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Feb 24, 2017 13:50
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Tony Blair has shown us the danger of having a religious fundamentalist in charge
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Feb 24, 2017 13:51
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It's not a contradictory position to think that: 1. New Labour did a bunch of good stuff (especially compared to the Tories) 2. Many of New Labour's decisions (PFI, focus on the middle class as opposed to the poorest, Iraq) have led to the situation both the UK and Labour are in right now 3. The leadership of New Labour's decision to parachute in ideologically loyal candidates, often in extremely suspect ways (see; Angela Eagle) instead of actually talented politicians is contributing to the current unpopularity of the Labour party
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Feb 24, 2017 13:53
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These would be the people who actually got elected as labour MPs, right?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:54
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/ONS/status/835095696772591617 It's either people indebting themselves for the next 100 years on a mortgage for a leasehold they won't be able to pass down onto their kids, or investors speculating. Mostly just investors. "First time buyers", well, there's always going to be a first time, right?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:55
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https://twitter.com/peoplesmomentum/status/834966400087228417 Ah yes, the Conservative Party, well known anti-establishment force.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:55
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TinTower posted:https://twitter.com/peoplesmomentum/status/834966400087228417 Nonsense isn't it.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:56
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Pissflaps posted:These would be the people who actually got elected as labour MPs, right?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:56
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I kinda specified no passive aggressiveness, also 'bunch of good stuff' is kinda the vagueness I was trying to avoid.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:57
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Going Full Spicer. Never go Full Spicer.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:58
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Fangz posted:I kinda specified no passive aggressiveness, also 'bunch of good stuff' is kinda the vagueness I was trying to avoid. they made some money privatising air traffic control
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Feb 24, 2017 13:59
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El Grillo posted:Seeing all these town halls in the US with senators getting ripped a new one, I keep wondering what would happen if Corbyn/other senior Labour figures went out and did some 'Opposition's Question Time' town-hall type events in some of these post-industrial/Brexit communities like Stoke, Collinghurst, Merthyr Tydfil... aka the 'Labour heartlands' which John Harris has spent a lot of time writing and talking about over the past few years. It'd be an absolutely poo poo idea because it'd turn into you arguing with the public about various things that they have absolutely totally wrong and refuse to believe anything different about. Say they'll tell you that waiting times are higher because there's more people. So you can say it's because of lack of money. Then you're arguing and when there's an argument most people assume both sides are wrong. It's poo poo and we do already do things like that.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:59
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Private Eye posted:You've forgotten about Boston. Boston has always been a poo poo hole!
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Feb 24, 2017 14:01
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Which one of you is Paul Mason? https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/835058260227018757
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Feb 24, 2017 14:04
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 i really don't know what she was expecting
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Feb 24, 2017 14:07
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Fans posted:One of the relative unknowns from 2010 is my bet Going on the betting markets there are only 2 names in it - Clive Lewis and Keir Starmer. Keir isn't an unknown and he isn't from 2010 as he became an MP in 2015, Keir's odds are so low it makes me wonder if there is a challenge forming.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:10
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LemonDrizzle posted:
Two world wars and one World Cup, but you've won three World Cups, two European Championships, and your economy's the best in Europe so overall you're the best.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:10
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LemonDrizzle posted:
Corrupt EU-schmoozing parasite convinces UK racists to destroy their own country, news at 11
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Feb 24, 2017 14:11
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ukle posted:Going on the betting markets there are only 2 names in it - Clive Lewis and Keir Starmer. Keir isn't an unknown and he isn't from 2010 as he became an MP in 2015, Keir's odds are so low it makes me wonder if there is a challenge forming. Betting markets wouldn't reflect an unknown
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Feb 24, 2017 14:12
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/24/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader-brexit-uk-political-landscape-copeland-byelection The man has loving lost it "In his speech, Corbyn conceded that Labour’s message had not come across in Copeland and said it would “go further to reconnect with our supporters”. He said the party must continue to straddle the divide between leave and remain voters, instead of representing only those who want to “stop the Brexit juggernaut” YOU DID NOT REPRESENT THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO STOP THE BREXIT JUGGERNAUT ONE IOTA YOU DICK
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Feb 24, 2017 14:12
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It doesn't matter who is in charge of the labour party provided those controlling the media are opposed to the policies labour intend to introduce. Such vested interests aren't suddenly going to give positive press to ideals and ideas they have spent decades of time and effort disparaging- no matter how well presented and prepared the PR team are, or how eloquent and charming the politician is. Doesn't matter, as that won't be what features in the press, so that won't be what the public sees. They will see a nerd eating a bacon sandwich, or socialist jam grandad. They will mercilessly attack and degrade any threat to the system that benefits them. That's their job, and they get better at it all the time. Media bad.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:14
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DesperateDan posted:It doesn't matter who is in charge of the labour party provided those controlling the media are opposed to the policies labour intend to introduce. Such vested interests aren't suddenly going to give positive press to ideals and ideas they have spent decades of time and effort disparaging- no matter how well presented and prepared the PR team are, or how eloquent and charming the politician is. Doesn't matter, as that won't be what features in the press, so that won't be what the public sees. They will see a nerd eating a bacon sandwich, or socialist jam grandad.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:15
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jBrereton posted:If there's one thing trump showed it's that you can overcome media hostility so long as you retain media interest. So you want Boris Johnson as leader? Trump was a special case I'd say for media interest.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:17
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SUNKOS posted:I'm not very fond of Tony Blair but life in this country was good when he was running it. People weren't relying on food banks or dying because of cuts to the NHS. The Iraq war was complete bullshit but how anyone can look back at Labour's run and think anything other than, "Life was so much better than it is under the Tories today" is insane. I like Corbyn because he wants to enforce the socialist values that make Britain great and tug politics back towards the left which is desperately needed right now but the by-election results lead me to believe that honestly, it doesn't matter who Labour picks as a candidate because they'll lose regardless. It's telling that Cameron managed to appeal to people by calling for more understanding of 'hoodies' and an end to harsh short-term solutions to crime while Osborne was planning to steal all the carrots and put them somewhere interesting. When the loving Tories are angling to attack you for being too tough on crime you've probably gone too far. I think that's part of what brought about Corbyn, people being sick of a politics of suspicion and otherization and crackdowns led people to go for the complete opposite end of the spectrum.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:24
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Trump had media interest and media interests
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Feb 24, 2017 14:26
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hakimashou posted:People need to let go of their hate for Tony Blair. Sure, once he's indicted for war crimes.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:30
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Taear posted:So you want Boris Johnson as leader? Trump was a special case I'd say for media interest.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:31
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BBC News now describing Copeland as an ULTRA safe labour seat. Considering it had like the 26th lowest majority out of 219 seats that seems like stretching the truth slightly.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:35
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jabby posted:BBC News now describing Copeland as an ULTRA safe labour seat. Considering it had like the 26th lowest majority out of 219 seats that seems like stretching the truth slightly. You'd have thought a seat that had been labour since the war would be pretty safe tbf.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:36
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Guavanaut posted:Quality of life was better, but it always seemed that New Labour had a deep suspicion of the people they were claiming to help, whether it was ASBOs or terrorism acts or moral panics or tough on crime rhetoric, it was as if you only got the carrots if there were sufficient sticks. I know "triangulation" is a curseword and all, but you're really stretching for why a left-leaning party might play up its right-wing rhetoric and vice versa Blair is deeply suspicious of the people, but Cameron is earnestly and honestly calling him out on it? ok
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Feb 24, 2017 14:39
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