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spacetoaster posted:That ain't no muscle bulge sweetie.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 03:38 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:33 |
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On a tangent...I did read Whedon's whole Wonder Woman script a few years ago. You, too, can read it here! If there's any doubt about its authenticity, let me diffuse them: it is absolutely a Whedon script and filled with a ton of Whedonisms that you'd be hard-pressed to mimic, even as a parody. My main takeaway at the time was that it was clearly written by someone who'd cracked open his first Wonder Woman book like a day or two before writing the script and had only ever seen her before in the Justice League cartoons. But -- again, at the time -- I didn't really notice anything particularly sexist about it other than one extended sequence where Diana had to lose her powers and suffer human pains and human torments in order to teach her humility because...uh...I don't really remember why. ...okay, with the benefit of hindsight, and especially having now seen a much better version of the story come to fruition...I can see just how problematic some of the scenes are. Honestly, I think there are pieces of great writing littered throughout the script, but it's hard not to be dismissive of it when the overall product just...well, just isn't as good as what we ended up getting. Yeah, it's not fair to compare a bloody first draft to a finished product, but it is what it is. vv spacetoaster posted:Why female only? They're all that way. I mean...he is, but still.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 04:36 |
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Mr. Apollo posted:Steve even has a line saying something like "yeah it's a real baby, not one made out of clay" Said it better than I could. There doesn't need to be a woman acting or behaving like a Bond/Hardcore masculine man to be amazing or progressive or badass or whatever. That completely misses a mark. From the previews it's like Atomic Blonde vs Wonder Woman's genuine heartfelt compassion yet courage to step forward and lead by example. And good point on Steve. This is one thing I did appreciate about Wonder Woman.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 04:45 |
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In the comics depending on the way she's being written the costume is fine. Like it's totally the kind of thing a confidant, flashy, super powerful paragon of Greco-Roman warriorness would wear. The problem is more the male gaze way in which the character is often posed and drawn in the comics, and it's cool that Jenkins knows that difference and avoided it in the movie. That said, the costume is pretty dumb when the character is written differently from that, and it's always groanworthy to see the nerd rage whenever there's a few issues in a row where she wears pants or is wearing more extensive armor for a given situation.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 04:51 |
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BrianWilly posted:
lol, yeah right. It's a literal skin tight bodysuit. And every other man in superhero movies have the same thing going on. Have you seen Chris Pratt, or Hugh Jackman, keep their clothes on for an entire movie? I'm not saying the ladies aren't objectified, but you're dumb as hell if you think the men aren't too.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 05:07 |
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Equeen posted:I saw someone say that Wonder Woman isn't feminist because Diana is "highly sexualized", and I have to disagree. I'm trying to think of a male gaze-y shot in the movie, and I'm drawing a blank. There was no close-ups on her (or any Amazon's) rear end and tits, nor was there a dumb scene where Diana is changing clothes, and Steve trying to sneak a peak. Like, there's more to sexual objectification than "is she showing skin, y/n". I don't think the movie is particularly feminist other than being a power fantasy for women, but besides that point, there's a certainly breed of feminists who view anything sex-positive in a negative light. I don't have much experience with them other than second hand accounts like Emma Watson being spit at by "purists" because she showed some skin in a photo shoot. It's real easy to strawman those kinds of people and even easier to confuse sexy with fetishization. I don't care for the wedges/heels/whatever on Wonder Woman's boots, but I found nothing wrong with her outfit and the camera never drew attention to her bits, so to speak. I say this as a guy who usually complains about boobplate and bikini armor, platemail heels and other dumb trashy designs in video games and whatnot. If anything, her outfit gave me serious Xena vibes. Wonder Woman obviously existed before Xena but seeing it in a live action movie, that's the first thing I thought of.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 05:08 |
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Guy A. Person posted:The weird thing about the "why don't they just shoot her in the exposed legs? why didn't they shoot at the dudes running by?" question is that it's not like an RTS where these dudes in the trenches have 360 degree awareness of the battlefield. It was probably a sequence of events like: She also has armor that extends from her knees on downwards.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 05:21 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:She also has armor that extends from her knees on downwards.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 05:27 |
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spacetoaster posted:lol, yeah right. It's a literal skin tight bodysuit. And every other man in superhero movies have the same thing going on. Have you seen Chris Pratt, or Hugh Jackman, keep their clothes on for an entire movie? Chris Pratt's superhero outfit is a full leather trenchcoat over a functional T-shirt and pants. Hugh Jackman's conventional Wolverine costume has him in full padded body armor. Shall we go further down the list to "every other man in superhero movies"? Tony Stark: full futuristic iron armor that covers every inch of his body. Captain America: fully padded body armor. Batman: fully padded body armor. Flash: full armored suit. Cyborg: literally a computer outfit. Aquaman: actually reveals his body for a change...except that he also ends up with fully-covered armor, according to the trailers. And then, I guess Hawkeye and Thor have bare biceps, sometimes. Pack it up, boys, sexism is loving over!! It's good that you mentioned Hugh Jackman, though, because he's kind of become the go-to example to illustrate the power fantasy vs sexual fantasy dichotomy that you apparently don't think exist. quote:On the left: a magazine tailored for a male audience, showing him in full beefcake-type mode with headlines about how you, too, can look like this. On the right: a magazine tailored for a female audience, which has a headline about romance and shows him looking more or less like a normal dude. Sure, you're right that male objectification does happen in superhero films. There's hardly any nowadays (including WW) that don't include at least one scene of its male leads with their shirts off, some of them justifiable, some of them bluntly gratuitous. But we were speaking specifically of costumes, which is why I couldn't even tell if you were joking or not when you wheeled out a bloody full-body-covered Superman suit -- which is basically the same suit that the character has worn since 1938 -- as some sort of definitive demonstration that men get objectified just as badly as women or something in these films. It's skintight, you say? Well poo poo, I guess that's that then!
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 06:37 |
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BrianWilly posted:Oookay I was trying to be politic about this but I guess we'll just go straight to the insults. That's a lot of words just to agree with me, son.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 06:51 |
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Wonder Woman passes Man of Steel in American box office gross. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/06/23/box-office-wonder-woman-flies-past-man-of-steel-with-293m-cume/#5f56c3282f62 quote:Wonder Woman ended its third week of domestic release with a $4 million Thursday gross, down just 33% from last Thursday and up 4% from yesterday. That brings the film's 21-day total to $293.207m. So, yeah, inflation notwithstanding (give it a week), Wonder Woman has surpassed Man of Steel ($291m in 2013) at the domestic box office. And it may cross $300m domestic today (on the 28th anniversary of Tim Burton's Batman) or certainly will tomorrow. That will make it the third movie of the year to hit that milestone after Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ($376m-and-counting) and Beauty and the Beast ($503m).
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 13:17 |
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spacetoaster posted:That's a lot of words just to agree with me, son.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 13:57 |
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Go challenge those roller derby people you posted about to a race and dont come back till you have a trophy or a medal or whatever.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 14:04 |
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Crappy Jack posted:Why don't they just shoot Robocop in the mouth? And why don't people in Metropolis recognize Superman? Mr. Apollo posted:The way the view changed to the gentle snowfall that Diana called "magical" was nice too. It made the whole thing feel more about love than lust or something done in the passion of a moment. The whole thing was taken slowly and deliberately. This was actually such a relief - it was just business as usual the next morning. Agent Burt Macklin fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 24, 2017 |
# ? Jun 24, 2017 14:32 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:Wonder Woman passes Man of Steel in American box office gross. I'm actually tempted to go watch it for a 3rd time. BrianWilly posted:I agree with the goalpost that you've shifted to, sure. I don't think you know what that means.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 16:04 |
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spacetoaster posted:lol, yeah right. It's a literal skin tight bodysuit. And every other man in superhero movies have the same thing going on. Have you seen Chris Pratt, or Hugh Jackman, keep their clothes on for an entire movie? Agreed.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 16:25 |
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Thor had a particularly blatant female-gaze scene. Equality !
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 16:39 |
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Kelly posted:And why don't people in Metropolis recognize Superman? I'm sure they do. He wears a pretty distinctive outfit. Hard to mistake him for someone else, I'd think.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 17:00 |
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I just saw it again and during the trench scene most of the bullets are hitting her shield but you can see several sparks coming off her boots.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 17:37 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:I'm sure they do. He wears a pretty distinctive outfit. Hard to mistake him for someone else, I'd think. One of the greatest moments in all of superhero comics is how Bane deduces that Bruce Wayne is Batman by walking around town holding his hand out in front of his face so that he only sees people's mouths/chins
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 17:48 |
I always got the distinct impression that this incarnation of Perry White was also in the know, unless he's got 4th wall breaking levels of dramatic irony as a superpower and only uses it to goad Clark Kent.
VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 18:07 |
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Neo Rasa posted:One of the greatest moments in all of superhero comics is how Bane deduces that Bruce Wayne is Batman by walking around town holding his hand out in front of his face so that he only sees people's mouths/chins And they call Batman the world's greatest detective.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 20:37 |
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Cool bit of trivia: Chief (the Native American dude who helps Diana and Steve out) was also a demigod: http://io9.gizmodo.com/wonder-woman-actor-says-chief-is-actually-a-demi-god-1796389983
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 21:40 |
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That's cool. I was wondering why their lines weren't subtitled during that part and why Chief starting talking in that language. I assumed they were speaking a Native American language but didn't know which one.
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 21:45 |
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But can he make himself grow to gigantic size by saying a specific word?
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 23:19 |
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"Martha"
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# ? Jun 24, 2017 23:20 |
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Away all Goats posted:And they call Batman the world's greatest detective.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 05:34 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:Wonder Woman passes Man of Steel in American box office gross. Note that it took Man of Steel 93 days to hit the $291 million domestic mark but WW got there in just 21 days and is still going strong. Ridiculously strong: It pulled in an estimated $25m on its 4th weekend which is not only twice as much as any of the other DCEU films made (BvS only made $9m on its 4th weekend), it's more than any of them made on their 3rd weekend. That's also a bigger 4th weekend than all the MCU films except The Avengers, bigger than Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises and only $1m behind The Dark Knight, bigger than all the Spider-Man films except the first one, bigger than all the X-Men films as well as all the Harry Potter films, all the Pirates of the Caribbean films, all the Fast & Furious films, all the Transformers films, all the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit films ... WW made more on its fourth weekend than Star Wars: Rogue One did and only $4m less than Jurassic World. There's a crazy amount of momentum behind it.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 18:30 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:
So how does this affect the development schedule? Does this mean we're going to be seeing Wonder Woman 2 (I first typed WWII and realized that wasn't going to work out, lol) sooner? Will she be getting a larger role in any batman/superman/justice league movie in the future? How do studios adapt, if at all, to over the top blockbusters?
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 18:37 |
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spacetoaster posted:So how does this affect the development schedule? Does this mean we're going to be seeing Wonder Woman 2 (I first typed WWII and realized that wasn't going to work out, lol) sooner? Will she be getting a larger role in any batman/superman/justice league movie in the future? Well, one of the rumors of the Whedon reshoots of JL is to beef up her role in the movie based on the response of WW. Mind you, rumors and all.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 19:58 |
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Davros1 posted:Well, one of the rumors of the Whedon reshoots of JL is to beef up her role in the movie based on the response of WW. Mind you, rumors and all. Really hope they put some oversight on him due to the reaction to his script.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 20:05 |
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spacetoaster posted:So how does this affect the development schedule? Does this mean we're going to be seeing Wonder Woman 2 (I first typed WWII and realized that wasn't going to work out, lol) sooner? Will she be getting a larger role in any batman/superman/justice league movie in the future?
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 21:21 |
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So having just seen this, am I alone in thinking that a lot of the final fight scene was baaaaad? Like, I thought it was pretty decent all the way through but the climax seemed like the weakest part of the movie.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 21:55 |
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Glagha posted:So having just seen this, am I alone in thinking that a lot of the final fight scene was baaaaad? Like, I thought it was pretty decent all the way through but the climax seemed like the weakest part of the movie. Nah, it's the worst part of this movie, and the worst part of most superhero movies. People have this idea that characters getting punched through buildings and so on and then getting back up makes them look powerful and invulnerable but really it just makes the attacks look weightless and meaningless.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 22:00 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Nah, it's the worst part of this movie, and the worst part of most superhero movies. People have this idea that characters getting punched through buildings and so on and then getting back up makes them look powerful and invulnerable but really it just makes the attacks look weightless and meaningless. I mean I will say that I nearly laughed out loud at the kamehameha.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 22:05 |
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Glagha posted:I mean I will say that I nearly laughed out loud at the kamehameha. Granted, but when powering up an energy attack is more amusing and novel than what you've got going on normally, you know you're in trouble.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 22:12 |
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Crappy Jack posted:Why don't they just shoot Robocop in the mouth? People keep saying this as a rebuttal, but Robocop had the exact "shot by a hundred guys with machine guns" situation a couple of times and didn't come away unscathed.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 22:38 |
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Was Diana's makeup deliberately darker in BvS to show her more stoic and somber nature? I don't know if I'm misremembering but it seems to be darker and heavier than her look in WW. Also, thinking back on it, her shock at Steve admitting that he was lying to the general about not going to the front (I'm a spy it's what I do!) compared to the casual "Is it still stealing if you steal from another thief?" query to Bruce when he confronts her about taking the flash drive was a nice touch of character development.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 23:27 |
Ferrinus posted:A friend of mine linked me to this analysis of Whedon's weird writing tics vis-a-vis female characters and I think it checks out: http://laureljupiter.tumblr.com/post/118320729761/laureljupiter-im-looking-at-screenshots-of-this Actually Wash was written out because Tudyk refused to sign a multi-movie contract (meaning he could negotiate for higher wages if the movie was successful) so the studio insisted he die. So that part of the argument is actually just factually incorrect.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 23:47 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:33 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Note that it took Man of Steel 93 days to hit the $291 million domestic mark but WW got there in just 21 days and is still going strong. https://zippy.gfycat.com/BrownPortlyDinosaur.webm
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 23:49 |