spacetoaster posted:

That ain't no muscle bulge sweetie.

spacetoaster posted:

Why female only? They're all that way.

Mr. Apollo posted:

Steve even has a line saying something like "yeah it's a real baby, not one made out of clay"
She specifically mentions that twice. Once when she's telling Steve they need to help the villagers when they're in the trench. She says something like "They've enslaved the village; women, children..." and at the end when she has decided that humanity does not deserve her help. She says something like "They're killing people they can't even see. Woman, children...children Steve!" In both cases she really emphasizes the word children.
I don't know if this is a bad opinion but that's one of things I really liked about her character. They allowed to her to be an absolute bad rear end while still being very feminine and no one ever made any of the typical jokes about her leading the way. Her abilities were recognized and all the guys quickly realized that they could best help by acting as support for her.

She was able to be a woman without having to act super macho. Same thing with Steve, his masculinity was never joked about or teased just because he followed her. They're both allowed to just be without resorting to tropes for their characters.

BrianWilly posted:

I dunno if this is a serious question or not because the internet has broken my ability to sense sarcasm in relation to social issues...but you'd be hard-pressed to claim that a costume which covers 99% of a guy from neck to toe is some sort of major blow against sexism in superhero depictions, no matter how much they emphasize his muscles. Emphasizing muscles is a male power fantasy, not male objectification. If it weren't, then Hulk would be the hottest guy out there.

Equeen posted:

I saw someone say that Wonder Woman isn't feminist because Diana is "highly sexualized", and I have to disagree. I'm trying to think of a male gaze-y shot in the movie, and I'm drawing a blank. There was no close-ups on her (or any Amazon's) rear end and tits, nor was there a dumb scene where Diana is changing clothes, and Steve trying to sneak a peak. Like, there's more to sexual objectification than "is she showing skin, y/n".

Guy A. Person posted:

The weird thing about the "why don't they just shoot her in the exposed legs? why didn't they shoot at the dudes running by?" question is that it's not like an RTS where these dudes in the trenches have 360 degree awareness of the battlefield. It was probably a sequence of events like:

1. look at this lunatic crossing the field, let's shoot her
2. what the hell, why isn't she falling? shoot her more!
3. *a bunch of bullets and noise and sparks and dust and the chaos of people freaking out at the weird rear end poo poo that's happening*
4. Some dudes have now shown up and are killing us

Like I can't remember if we see the perspective of the machine gunners but I'd imagine they see a figure in the distance and then vaguely see it standing through a hail of bullets and dust, I don't know that they could've just been like "oh she clearly has a magical shield but her knees are exposed!" from their vantage point.

Charlz Guybon posted:

She also has armor that extends from her knees on downwards.

spacetoaster posted:

lol, yeah right. It's a literal skin tight bodysuit. And every other man in superhero movies have the same thing going on. Have you seen Chris Pratt, or Hugh Jackman, keep their clothes on for an entire movie?

I'm not saying the ladies aren't objectified, but you're dumb as hell if you think the men aren't too.

quote:

On the left: a magazine tailored for a male audience, showing him in full beefcake-type mode with headlines about how you, too, can look like this. On the right: a magazine tailored for a female audience, which has a headline about romance and shows him looking more or less like a normal dude.

BrianWilly posted:

Oookay I was trying to be politic about this but I guess we'll just go straight to the insults.

Chris Pratt's superhero outfit is a full leather trenchcoat over a functional T-shirt and pants. Hugh Jackman's conventional Wolverine costume has him in full padded body armor. Shall we go further down the list to "every other man in superhero movies"? Tony Stark: full futuristic iron armor that covers every inch of his body. Captain America: fully padded body armor. Batman: fully padded body armor. Flash: full armored suit. Cyborg: literally a computer outfit. Aquaman: actually reveals his body for a change...except that he also ends up with fully-covered armor, according to the trailers. And then, I guess Hawkeye and Thor have bare biceps, sometimes.

Pack it up, boys, sexism is loving over!!

It's good that you mentioned Hugh Jackman, though, because he's kind of become the go-to example to illustrate the power fantasy vs sexual fantasy dichotomy that you apparently don't think exist.



Do you believe filmmakers have Wolverine rip off his shirt to display crazy rippling muscles as he snarls and yells and viciously shreds his way across armies of extras because they're trying to make him appealing to the ladies in the audience? No son, that's there for your benefit. That's there to show off muscles and manliness and strength in all its alpha-male prowess, not because women and queer men are all looking to get raw'd by a grunting neanderthal.

Sure, you're right that male objectification does happen in superhero films. There's hardly any nowadays (including WW) that don't include at least one scene of its male leads with their shirts off, some of them justifiable, some of them bluntly gratuitous. But we were speaking specifically of costumes, which is why I couldn't even tell if you were joking or not when you wheeled out a bloody full-body-covered Superman suit -- which is basically the same suit that the character has worn since 1938 -- as some sort of definitive demonstration that men get objectified just as badly as women or something in these films. It's skintight, you say? Well poo poo, I guess that's that then!

quote:

Wonder Woman ended its third week of domestic release with a $4 million Thursday gross, down just 33% from last Thursday and up 4% from yesterday. That brings the film's 21-day total to $293.207m. So, yeah, inflation notwithstanding (give it a week), Wonder Woman has surpassed Man of Steel ($291m in 2013) at the domestic box office. And it may cross $300m domestic today (on the 28th anniversary of Tim Burton's Batman) or certainly will tomorrow. That will make it the third movie of the year to hit that milestone after Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ($376m-and-counting) and Beauty and the Beast ($503m).

Oh, and it has now made at least $605 million worldwide, not counting whatever it did overseas yesterday. So, either yesterday or today, it did (or will) pass the (non-adjusted) $609.8m worldwide gross of Phyllida Lloyd's Mamma Mia! back in 2008. The film earned $144m domestic and $465m overseas while opening, ironically enough, on the same day as Space Chimps... and The Dark Knight in North America. Point being, Wonder Woman is or soon will be the biggest live-action global grosser ever from a solo female director. The record for any and all solo female-directed films sits with Jennifer Yuh Nelson's (still awesome) Kung Fu Panda 2, which earned $665m worldwide back in 2011. That milestone may fall on Sunday or soon after.

We'll see how the film holds up in its fourth weekend, especially with Transformers: The Last Knight not quite catching fire in comparison to its predecessors. But there is something appropriate in that "to hell with conventional wisdom" sort of way that the Wonder Woman origin story has earned more in North America (and soon worldwide) than the Superman origin story. That said, what we've seen thus far this summer isn't that different from much of last summer. By that I mean that, among the "big" movies, the comic book superhero films (Guardians 2, Wonder Woman, presumably Spider-Man: Homecoming) and the big kid-targeted animated movies (Cars 3 and presumably Despicable Me 3) are doing well while everything else (Alien: Covenant, King Arthur, Pirates 5, Transformers 5, The Mummy) somewhat struggles in North America.

Sure, it's great that the female-led superhero movie is crushing most of the male-centric biggies, but as a trend or a pattern it's not that different from last year at this point where Captain America: Civil War, X-Men: Apocalypse, Finding Dory, The Secret Life of Pets, Suicide Squad and (relatively speaking) The Legend of Tarzan did okay while Alice Through the Looking Glass, Independence Day: Resurgence, Warcraft, Star Trek Beyond and Ghostbusters fumbled. We'll see if this pattern continues into July as War for the Planet of the Apes, Valerian, Dunkirk and The Dark Tower take their shot at the title over the second half of the summer. It's beyond cool that Wonder Woman has become the de-facto movie of the summer, and there is much good to be taken from its success. But it's also a case of the comic book superhero movies kicking butt while everything else struggles.

spacetoaster posted:

That's a lot of words just to agree with me, son.

spacetoaster posted:

Crappy Jack posted:

Why don't they just shoot Robocop in the mouth?

Mr. Apollo posted:

The way the view changed to the gentle snowfall that Diana called "magical" was nice too. It made the whole thing feel more about love than lust or something done in the passion of a moment. The whole thing was taken slowly and deliberately.

I was expecting a "morning after talk" or for the rest of the squad to make joke or innuendo but it was really nice to see a complete absence of that.

Charlz Guybon posted:

Wonder Woman passes Man of Steel in American box office gross.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/06/23/box-office-wonder-woman-flies-past-man-of-steel-with-293m-cume/#5f56c3282f62

BrianWilly posted:

I agree with the goalpost that you've shifted to, sure.

spacetoaster posted:

lol, yeah right. It's a literal skin tight bodysuit. And every other man in superhero movies have the same thing going on. Have you seen Chris Pratt, or Hugh Jackman, keep their clothes on for an entire movie?

I'm not saying the ladies aren't objectified, but you're dumb as hell if you think the men aren't too.

Kelly posted:

And why don't people in Metropolis recognize Superman?

Sir Kodiak posted:

I'm sure they do. He wears a pretty distinctive outfit. Hard to mistake him for someone else, I'd think.

Neo Rasa posted:

One of the greatest moments in all of superhero comics is how Bane deduces that Bruce Wayne is Batman by walking around town holding his hand out in front of his face so that he only sees people's mouths/chins

Away all Goats posted:

And they call Batman the world's greatest detective.

Charlz Guybon posted:

Wonder Woman passes Man of Steel in American box office gross.

quote:

Wonder Woman ended its third week of domestic release with a $4 million Thursday gross, down just 33% from last Thursday and up 4% from yesterday. That brings the film's 21-day total to $293.207m. So, yeah, inflation notwithstanding (give it a week), Wonder Woman has surpassed Man of Steel ($291m in 2013) at the domestic box office.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/06/23/box-office-wonder-woman-flies-past-man-of-steel-with-293m-cume/#5f56c3282f62

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Note that it took Man of Steel 93 days to hit the $291 million domestic mark but WW got there in just 21 days and is still going strong.

Ridiculously strong:


It pulled in an estimated $25m on its 4th weekend which is not only twice as much as any of the other DCEU films made (BvS only made $9m on its 4th weekend), it's more than any of them made on their 3rd weekend. That's also a bigger 4th weekend than all the MCU films except The Avengers, bigger than Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises and only $1m behind The Dark Knight, bigger than all the Spider-Man films except the first one, bigger than all the X-Men films as well as all the Harry Potter films, all the Pirates of the Caribbean films, all the Fast & Furious films, all the Transformers films, all the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit films ...
WW made more on its fourth weekend than Star Wars: Rogue One did and only $4m less than Jurassic World. There's a crazy amount of momentum behind it.

spacetoaster posted:

So how does this affect the development schedule? Does this mean we're going to be seeing Wonder Woman 2 (I first typed WWII and realized that wasn't going to work out, lol) sooner? Will she be getting a larger role in any batman/superman/justice league movie in the future?

How do studios adapt, if at all, to over the top blockbusters?

Davros1 posted:

Well, one of the rumors of the Whedon reshoots of JL is to beef up her role in the movie based on the response of WW. Mind you, rumors and all.

spacetoaster posted:

So how does this affect the development schedule? Does this mean we're going to be seeing Wonder Woman 2 (I first typed WWII and realized that wasn't going to work out, lol) sooner? Will she be getting a larger role in any batman/superman/justice league movie in the future?

How do studios adapt, if at all, to over the top blockbusters?

Glagha posted:

So having just seen this, am I alone in thinking that a lot of the final fight scene was baaaaad? Like, I thought it was pretty decent all the way through but the climax seemed like the weakest part of the movie.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Nah, it's the worst part of this movie, and the worst part of most superhero movies. People have this idea that characters getting punched through buildings and so on and then getting back up makes them look powerful and invulnerable but really it just makes the attacks look weightless and meaningless.

Glagha posted:

I mean I will say that I nearly laughed out loud at the kamehameha.

Crappy Jack posted:

Why don't they just shoot Robocop in the mouth?

Ferrinus posted:

A friend of mine linked me to this analysis of Whedon's weird writing tics vis-a-vis female characters and I think it checks out: http://laureljupiter.tumblr.com/post/118320729761/laureljupiter-im-looking-at-screenshots-of-this

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Note that it took Man of Steel 93 days to hit the $291 million domestic mark but WW got there in just 21 days and is still going strong.

Ridiculously strong: