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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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Seriously though the arguments about which kind of brexit to choose are kind of terrible. The only negotiating tactic you've practiced is the "well give us what we want or else  " thing which is kind of not great when you've already done the "or else" thing. Seriously, you do the thinking before you sign the article 50 thing. Or rather, before you call the loving referendum. Now May can't sign EU severance checks or make continuous payments into EU budgets because well, how the gently caress could she? The negotiations are poison for any british politician because any credibly achievable agreement would be impossible to sell to the electorate. Also the UK is a net payer to the EU, which means that Brexit has made all the other countries pissed off - they'll have to strip their budgets of stuff they hadn't budgeted for. There's not a lot of patience with wheeling and dealing with the usual Tory infighting or whatever you guys think of next. You're down to trying to barter and haggle with our citizens' rights for leverage since this is apparently a loving zero-sum game to you? Better hope not a single national parliament in the EU takes issue with that tactic since all of them'd have to sign any agreement. Hopefully they'll be immune to shortsighted national concerns, right? So here's what's gonna happen: in one year, negotiations will officially break off without any agreement signed, british negotiators won't have been given authority to negotiate the big sticking points and whoever's Prime Minister will be busy fighting internal party challenges. Fingers will be pointed a lot of places but at the end, everyone will blame Cameron and/or the Europeans. From oct 2018 to march 2019, your papers will all have doomsday clocks and will report breathlessly about the continental intransigence and the halfhearted attempts at a temporary deal after brexit to allow the markets to adjust or whatever but since you'll burn a lot of bridges without cooling much nationalist sentiment, it'll end with gently caress all. Come Independence day, a lot of people will be upset because there are still pakis around and somehow the good food is a lot more expensive? Naturally, the EU will be blamed for both. You know what? We're gonna be blamed for it anyway, so I'm fine that Brexit will be hard. Brexit makes me hard. I want to flood the canal tunnel, I want to build walls all over Ulster and gently caress me but yeah we'll have a standing invitation to Scotland to join because gently caress you.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:22
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Jose posted:is it fun? Very fun, sitting in my ivory tower, judging those less fortunate Party Boat posted:I'm pretty sure Looke will be getting around a 5% increase for the next few years if he's just joined DWP, PCS negotiated a higher increase for lower grades in return changes to conditions and greater restrictions at the top. Yeah this pretty much, the pay is significantly better than if I were still a nurse. I don't plan on staying in the DWP long enough to get to the top restriction
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Jun 30, 2017 12:22
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Midnight- posted:So if we stay in the custom union, that stops us from making our own trade deals with other, non-eu, countries? So it might not totally prevent you from making a trade deal with India, but it does bind you in terms of what tariffs you can offer them and what you get to call a tomato. In the EUCU case it looks like it goes further than that.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:24
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Right so this is basically going to come down to another case of having cake and eat it too. They're hoping they can negotiate a deal that would basically be the same as in the customer union, without being bound by that bit of it. Which won't happen.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:25
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Midnight- posted:Right so this is basically going to come down to another case of having cake and eat it too. Well you could have a free trade area that acted similarly to the customs union, but it would apparently gently caress the NI border according to the BBC. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36083664
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Jun 30, 2017 12:27
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Maugrim posted:Uh, I was going to post this last night and then fell asleep, sorry it's completely out of context and will probably not be read by the person it's aimed at Lord_Adonis has a post in his post history looking for information about castration on the NHS so I'm thinking rationality isn't actually his strong suit
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Jun 30, 2017 12:47
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I think that we might be talking past one another. It seems to me that your example demonstrates that people can believe that they are helping, when they in fact are doing the opposite, rather than a situation where people are constrained in their ability to help by a lack of resources. Let me put it another way: How does one give something that one does not have in the way of help?
I think we're talking past one another. Your example shows people can believe they're helping when they're not, rather than people being constrained in their ability to help by a lack of resources. How do you give something you don't have in the way of help?
How do you give something you don't have?
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CptAwesome posted:Lord_Adonis has a post in his post history looking for information about castration on the NHS so I'm thinking rationality isn't actually his strong suit It's perfectly rational for someone as broken as him to pursue castration
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Jun 30, 2017 12:50
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:You know what? We're gonna be blamed for it anyway, so I'm fine that Brexit will be hard. Brexit makes me hard. I want to flood the canal tunnel, I want to build walls all over Ulster and gently caress me but yeah we'll have a standing invitation to Scotland to join because gently caress you. Very constructive. I'm glad you posted this here and not somewhere that deserves it like any GBS thread involving the UK.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:55
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Regarde Aduck posted:Very constructive. I'm glad you posted this here and not somewhere that deserves it like any GBS thread involving the UK. Yeah the post started OK and then slalomed into GBS real quick
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Jun 30, 2017 12:56
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Seriously though the arguments about which kind of brexit to choose are kind of terrible. The only negotiating tactic you've practiced is the "well give us what we want or else You forgot the parliamentary vote before crashing out in which everyone gets super mad at everyone else and someone finally hits someone else with the sceptre causing another constitutional crisis to erupt meaning the vote doesn't actually before the negotiating deadline hits. Also your last paragraph makes me sad, we're not innately bad we're just raised this way.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:57
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CptAwesome posted:Lord_Adonis has a post in his post history looking for information about castration on the NHS so I'm thinking rationality isn't actually his strong suit It's like they looked at the 60s NHS where people were pressured into sterilization for bullshit 'social health' reasons and said that's terrible (it was) and then decided to go way off the other deep end. Not sure why you need to go the whole way though unless it's part of GRS which is a whole different thing. Tijuana Bibliophile posted:I want to build walls all over Ulster and gently caress Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 12:59
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Guavanaut posted:The NHS won't even provide vasectomy unless you already have kids or are willing to spend months trying to persuade multiple people. It's actually kind of sad, the reasons he gave ITT was that he finds his reproductive drive a hindrance because he doesn't think anyone would ever gently caress him because of normal goon reasons (fat, ASD, etc.) 
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Jun 30, 2017 13:20
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I don't get all the hubbub about brexit positions, it's all a bit irrelevant when the EU probably won't exist in 5 years and if it does it will have to be markedly different (or far narrower) to survive, I mean yeah we decided as a country to have a lot of completely pointless disruption over it and we'll have a couple of poo poo years before the real poo poo years begin for everyone but the arguments seem all based on the idea that the EU as an institution isn't in a huge amount of trouble. Or maybe i'm just a marxist blyth following idiot and i've got it all wrong.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:22
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I just want to throw it out there that there I, who was extremely vocal about remaining in the EU, believe that the Labour approach to brexit (which would almost certainly involve remaining in the customs union but leaving the single market) is pragmatic and realistic and retains many of the benefits of remaining in the single market but would also allow us to pursue socialist policies such as nationalisation, subsidised industries etc that may otherwise fall afoul of EU competition and public procurement laws, and would be unlikely to lead to a rise in far right nationalism. Don't expect this to change any minds, but want to make clear that this is an opinion that exists and has some merit. EU membership > Corbxit > soft(est)-Brexit > Offshore tax haven based on free trade deals designed to outsource our production to developing economies in order to exploit their total lack of workers' rights (  ), aka "Government policy"e: ^ could be that a total shitstorm over here would be enough to remind the rest of Europe that the EU is actually a pretty sweet deal and they should stop actively disrupting it. Silver linings and all. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 13:23
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brian posted:I don't get all the hubbub about brexit positions, it's all a bit irrelevant when the EU probably won't exist in 5 years and if it does it will have to be markedly different (or far narrower) to survive, I mean yeah we decided as a country to have a lot of completely pointless disruption over it and we'll have a couple of poo poo years before the real poo poo years begin for everyone but the arguments seem all based on the idea that the EU as an institution isn't in a huge amount of trouble. Or maybe i'm just a marxist blyth following idiot and i've got it all wrong. Barky Mark is a good person to follow if you're worried about the future of the UK post-Brexit, less so if you're actually a hardcore Europhile.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:23
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CptAwesome posted:It's actually kind of sad, the reasons he gave ITT was that he finds his reproductive drive a hindrance because he doesn't think anyone would ever gently caress him because of normal goon reasons (fat, ASD, etc.) Oh, it's chemical castration he wants? That's easy. Just go molest a child (joining the Tory Party optional) then volunteer for it. Warning: side effects may include weight gain, depression and suicide. So it's probably not the best choice for someone who already suffers from the first two. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 30, 2017 13:30
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Borrovan posted:I just want to throw it out there that there I, who was extremely vocal about remaining in the EU, believe that the Labour approach to brexit (which would almost certainly involve remaining in the customs union but leaving the single market) is pragmatic and realistic and retains many of the benefits of remaining in the single market but would also allow us to pursue socialist policies such as nationalisation, subsidised industries etc that may otherwise fall afoul of EU competition and public procurement laws, and would be unlikely to lead to a rise in far right nationalism. Don't expect this to change any minds, but want to make clear that this is an opinion that exists and has some merit. I'd like this too. I just don't have the vocabulary to argue it well.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:30
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Serene Dragon posted:Brexit is going to gently caress this country in the arse, and you're all loving lemmings. What happened to "him being electable is not the point, it's about getting the right narrative out there"? Well he did a lot better than a lot of us pessimists expected and is well positioned to form a government at a new election as soon as before the end of the year. The right narrative was got out there, & proved very popular instantly which I thought would take a fair bit longer. But turns out a lot of people were begging for an alternative to disastrous neoliberalism. It's also just a fact that Labour can't just appeal to the 48% of remainers because lots of people who support leave vote Labour & totally ignoring them would be disastrous. We lost the argument. I don't particularly care about the principle of democracy so much as I care about not seeing a whole host of people who could vote for socialism and a better country (& eventually world) for us all turned into fascists at the sense of feeling betrayed by "liberal metropolitan elites". Personally I'd rather us keep freedom of movement over every other one of the freedoms, but we're a nation of petty, small-minded bigots. You're not going to change that by proving them right & just ignoring them, that's a poo poo way to "win hearts & minds". The time to stop Brexit was last summer. We failed. It's shite but there you go. Being a pissbaby about it is fine, that's what the Liberal Democrats are for, a one issue protest vote with added "oh my god I can't trust these cunts one bit". If you don't like that fact, well, there's always the SNP or Plaid Cymru or possibly the Greens. Definitely the Scottish Greens. But Labour want to win elections and you're not going to do that by sabotaging it at every corner. Jedit posted:It's not the majority of the electorate. It's the majority of the electorate who expressed a preference Jedit posted:and without full possession of the facts. Jedit posted:We're drifting away from that. We're already in the position where a majority who express a preference favour Remain, and most Remain voters "support" Brexit only in the sense of supporting democracy. And we don't elect governments on opinion polls, as shown by the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is not Prime Minister despite acting far more like a Prime Minister than the actual PM. And incidentally, considering the iffy history of polling in this country I'm not sure I'd put too much faith in what polls say. Would all these Remainers bother their arse to vote if a second referendum was held? Is the methodology good? And so forth. The only way to find out if this is true or not is to hold a referendum on the deal we end up coming away with. And that ends up with all the same issues of the last referendum.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:32
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Jedit posted:Oh, it's chemical castration he wants? That's easy. Just go molest a child (joining the Tory Party optional) then volunteer for it. Warning: side effects may include weight gain, depression and suicide. So it's probably not the best choice for someone who already suffers from the first two. (Health Authority Warning - Bitcoin may also increase the risk of contact with child molesters. Do not molest children.)
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Jun 30, 2017 13:36
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I just got a new phone, (cos my mate stepped on my old one,) and its like something out of star trek, i'm afraid of it randomly de-materialising my poo poo. its got 4 gb of ram, what madness, no-one should have so much power, i can use maybe more than 4 aps at a time now, insane. is this how people felt when they saw steam engines on wheels suddenly start chuffing along on rails? staberind fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 13:38
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staberind posted:I just got a new phone, (cos my mate stepped on my old one,) and its like something out of star trek, i'm afraid of it randomly de-materialising my poo poo. Were you coming from like a Nokia flipphone or something 
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Jun 30, 2017 13:43
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staberind posted:I just got a new phone, (cos my mate stepped on my old one,) and its like something out of star trek, i'm afraid of it randomly de-materialising my poo poo. This reminded me of that star trek joke where O'Brian was pranking/murdering someone by transporting all the food they ate out of their stomach. rear end in a top hat O'Brian was amazing.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:43
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brian posted:I don't get all the hubbub about brexit positions, it's all a bit irrelevant when the EU probably won't exist in 5 years and if it does it will have to be markedly different (or far narrower) to survive, I mean yeah we decided as a country to have a lot of completely pointless disruption over it and we'll have a couple of poo poo years before the real poo poo years begin for everyone but the arguments seem all based on the idea that the EU as an institution isn't in a huge amount of trouble. Or maybe i'm just a marxist blyth following idiot and i've got it all wrong. The fact that there are a lot of serious problems in how the EU is run and structured and how its benefits are divided, both between and within countries, is by itself in no way enough to lead to its destruction. Particularly when there is an object lesson available for why it's such a terrible idea to try and leave the EU. People can point to the divergence between core and periphery in the Euro area, or the refusal of Eastern European countries to share the burden of taking in refugees, or whichever other point you could justifiably make about what's wrong with the EU, but in order for the EU to disappear, you need an actual mechanism that causes its dissolution: politicians running on an agenda to exit from the EU, winning elections in numerous member states at once to avoid Britain's fate of isolation, and then them agreeing on what comes after, dividing the spoils/costs, and trying to avoid chaos in the meantime, while still getting reelected for long enough to actually accomplish anything. That's just not very plausible for the foreseeable future.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:44
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forkboy84 posted:If you don't bother to vote, your opinion doesn't matter in a referendum or in an election. That's hardly a recent development. No, it isn't. But people are getting motivated to participate in politics again, as evinced by last month's election, and when people get motivated like that it is always to oppose something they don't want. Every new vote in a second referendum would be for Remain.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:45
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Seriously though the arguments about which kind of brexit to choose are kind of terrible. The only negotiating tactic you've practiced is the "well give us what we want or else But other than that, yeah, you Brits are deluded if you think you're coming into these negotiations with any sort of leverage. You spit in the face of all your neighbouring countries and of one of the largest trade blocks in the world - and let's face it, they hated your guts even beforehand. Discussions of what could be theoretically possible re: brexit are moot. If you go for a soft Brexit, it's going to be on the EU's terms and any sort of concession you get is going to be because they felt they could get more out of it. If you go with hard Brexit, might as well strap in, because they're going to gently caress you raw.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:51
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Saying Labour is pushing for any kind of Brexit at the moment is slightly disingenuous. Their whole position is to be as vague as possible and to refuse to rule anything in or out, while also saying whatever the Tories are doing is poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:51
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feedmegin posted:Were you coming from like a Nokia flipphone or something I've had a couple of Kazams, for some weird reason I thought why not support a uk company, gave one to ex, snapped it in half, and the other one was stepped on. the new one had a gig of ram so i was used to juggling memory, I only got a smartphone because I got a good dac and decided to consolidate my poo poo into one easily (loosable) usable clump. a new dac got delivered literally on the day my phone got hoofed, so i did indeed flip over my phone. all this is part of a cunning plan to get me to go out of my house, away from my computer, and, i dunno, sit on the beach or something. I did not realise I'd be getting some multicore pocket computer. jabby posted:Saying either party is pushing for any kind of Brexit at the moment is slightly disingenuous. Their whole position is to be as vague as possible and to refuse to rule anything in or out, while also saying whatever the other pile are doing is poo poo. ftfy staberind fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 13:52
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Jedit posted:No, it isn't. But people are getting motivated to participate in politics again, as evinced by last month's election, and when people get motivated like that it is always to oppose something they don't want. Every new vote in a second referendum would be for Remain. So there is nobody who was too young to vote in 2015 but is old enough to vote now that would vote to Leave? Seems unlikely.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:54
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The main brexit thing is that it's impossible to oppose right now, because being anti-brexit at present isn't being for a sensible foreign policy, it's being against the fundamental rights and freedoms of the magna carta and a world without terrorism and infinite money from all the cakes we'll sell or something. The bad news has only just started and it's going to take at least a few months before it sinks in that the actual outcome of any deal is actually going to be "food's more expensive and businesses are hamstrung".
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Jun 30, 2017 13:56
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jabby posted:Saying Labour is pushing for any kind of Brexit at the moment is slightly disingenuous. Their whole position is to be as vague as possible and to refuse to rule anything in or out, while also saying whatever the Tories are doing is poo poo. What the Tories are doing is poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:58
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R. Mute posted:You spit in the face of all your neighbouring countries and of one of the largest trade blocks in the world - and let's face it, they hated your guts even beforehand. I sure am glad we're leaving an association of racists.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:58
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I always thought that the best plan for Brexit was to negotiate the "best" deal possible, present that to the British public as the actual immensely stupid and destructive deal it will be and put that to a referendum. That way if people still vote for it, well, that's on them
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Jun 30, 2017 13:58
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staberind posted:
So I resisted getting a mobile phone till four years ago, but I still have to wonder just how you managed to not know what an iPhone/smartphone was? Is this one of those things where you live in some remote part of Scotland which is about 20 years behind everyone else?
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Jun 30, 2017 14:01
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:I always thought that the best plan for Brexit was to negotiate the "best" deal possible, present that to the British public as the actual immensely stupid and destructive deal it will be and put that to a referendum. That way if people still vote for it, well, that's on them
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Jun 30, 2017 14:02
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:I sure am glad we're leaving an association of racists.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:06
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:I sure am glad we're leaving an association of racists. Thank you for this excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about
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Jun 30, 2017 14:14
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See, Boris Johnson is going to call us continentals a bunch of wet napkins or something and all our grim, bureaucrat faces are going to scrunch up and we'll cross off another batch of possible concessions.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:16
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R. Mute posted:See, Boris Johnson is going to call us continentals a bunch of wet napkins or something and all our grim, bureaucrat faces are going to scrunch up and we'll cross off another batch of possible concessions.  Mr. Johnson, perhaps the circumstances surrounding this negotiation have temporarily, as it were, escaped you
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Jun 30, 2017 14:19
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If a face has ever merited the title of scrunge-up proof, he's got it
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Jun 30, 2017 14:21
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:I sure am glad we're leaving an association of racists. ... I'm afraid I have some bad news re. the U.K....
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