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Oct 16, 2018 15:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJjSVIw-Uo&feature=youtu.be
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Oct 16, 2018 15:37
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Oct 16, 2018 16:11
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Graphic posted:good luck building a mass movement when you gate it off by requiring a thorough understanding of adorno and foucault you elitist turds The idea that ideology is something that only ivory tower eggheads care about - and should care about - is revisionist hogwash that only came into vogue as the natural accompaniment of the dismantling of institutionalized popular political movements after WWII. Hundred years ago every other goddamn sharecropper or mason - be it in America or Europe - read political papers, listened to political radio and had a reasonably well defined theoretical understanding of his or her political position that permeated throughout the community. That, of course, had to be squashed and marginalized by popular history. gently caress, the twenties and thirties were the golden era of political movements with an incredible amount of books, pamphlets, speeches being circulated among the lower classes that were absolutely hungry for political education. The "you can't make me read a book" mentality is absolutely toxic. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 16:27
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steinrokkan posted:The idea that ideology is something that only ivory tower eggheads care about - and should care about - is revisionist hogwash that only came into vogue as the natural accompaniment of the dismantling of institutionalized popular political movements after WWII. yeah but they didnt have tap games or the internet so everyone just stayed drunk 24/7 for entertainment
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Oct 16, 2018 16:30
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steinrokkan posted:The idea that ideology is something that only ivory tower eggheads care about - and should care about - is revisionist hogwash that only came into vogue as the natural accompaniment of the dismantling of institutionalized popular political movements after WWII.  I gave my dad a copy of Dialectical and Historical Materialism for his birthday after he told me story of how he had to ditch his last one some 47 years ago while on the run from the cops, and he told me that it was a stapled-together stack of mimeographed paper that had been handed down from at least four other students before getting to him, and the only reason he had it with him that day was because he was taking it to a meeting to discuss it with the rest of his peers. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 16:33
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https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1052227366267674625
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Oct 16, 2018 17:20
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im too depressed and anxious and trying to barely get by to sit down and calmly read a long rear end book and considering how loving crazy and stressed out a lot of other people are i dont think thats abnormal
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Oct 16, 2018 17:39
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like the last thing i want to do in my free time is critically engage difficult texts about how to unfuck the doomed earth
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Oct 16, 2018 17:42
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most of these "long rear end books" everyone talks about you needing to read are like 50 pages long. Although I do think that maybe we spend too much time telling people to read and not enough time making poo poo accessible. Some of my close friends have pretty severe reading disabilities or adhd and poo poo and they're model communists only through the effort of educating themselves through conversation with well-read nerds who are often waaaay too dismissive of non-text forms of information transmission.
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Oct 16, 2018 17:42
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Like, there are maybe 3 or 4 good vaguely left people on youtube and I think half of them talk about movies and videogames more than politics. I guess donoteat01 is now a good left historian but that is kinda babby's first leftism. There's no like beginner-intermediate level "person who talks you through what is to be done" online.
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Oct 16, 2018 17:44
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ill read what is to be done but ill also probably order it off amazon
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Oct 16, 2018 17:47
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i remember trying to work my way through lenin's karl marx and my eyes just kept glazing over
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Oct 16, 2018 17:51
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I'll effortpost all drat day about left literature if I thought anyone was listening
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Oct 16, 2018 17:52
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when i did read theory it was when i was in college and my everyday stress and worries were considerably lower
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Oct 16, 2018 17:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'll effortpost all drat day about left literature if I thought anyone was listening I'll post poo poo in there too on stuff if you do.
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Oct 16, 2018 17:56
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I would definitely be interested in a thread on left literature, I’d like to read more theory
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Oct 16, 2018 18:02
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okay i want to back up, because saying that someone who doesn't engage these things even though they're freely available is "probably not a very good [socialist]" was unkind and a little hypocritical of me. i think that there are a number of things someone should do to be considered a good socialist. one of those things is, and i won't back down on this, reading the work of other socialists and leftists generally. note that i'm not saying you MUST read x, y, or z work, but there's honestly so much out there for free in a variety of formats (including audio for people with difficulties focusing on text visually) that while it might take some work to find what's right for you, you should be finding it and thinking critically on it. HOWEVER, a good socialist should also form and maintain positive relationships with other activists, with the working class in their community, with socialist groups in the broader world, and as was done in the mid-20th century with other revolutionary groups who are not necessarily socialist but who could be good allies (the black panthers working with the nation of islam comes to mind). a good socialist should be as physically fit as their disability status allows them to be, or working toward that. a good socialist should be trained/training in at least one of the following: first aid, mechanics/engineering, unarmed fighting, firearms, Computer Stuff. a good socialist should set aside time to talk about and explain socialist theory to comrades who haven't read as much, or who haven't read anything yet. the list goes on none of us meet this standard. most people never could. but i do think it's important to hold ourselves and our comrades to certain standards. whether we're after revolution or reform, i don't think we're going to get there by babying each other or babying ourselves. the entire premise of, "my leftism, my way" where everyone walks around with a bespoke ideology that springs from their own heart with no structure, theory, or outside influence just feels hugely liberal and counterproductive. even anarchist free states require, through informal community censure, that residents and visitors comply or aspire to comply with certain standards of behavior and character
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Oct 16, 2018 18:41
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a mass movement involves people from the curious bystander to the hardcore lifer.
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Oct 16, 2018 18:45
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irrespective of how she frames it, have people really criticized AOC for not reading enough abstruse material? or is the criticism that her positions do not comprise socialism? because her issues page doesn’t seem to include shared ownership of the means of production or fundamentally replacing capitalist class relations or forms of commodity production
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Oct 16, 2018 18:55
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THS posted:im too depressed and anxious and trying to barely get by to sit down and calmly read a long rear end book and considering how loving crazy and stressed out a lot of other people are i dont think thats abnormal Grow up
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Oct 16, 2018 18:57
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Grow up gently caress off. i hope whenever you need help its never there. bootstraps bitch motherfucker
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Oct 16, 2018 18:58
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Everyday you guys watch a marvel movie instead of read a book a trot sells out another cadre to the japanese, German, and Spanish military.
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Oct 16, 2018 18:58
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Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:irrespective of how she frames it, have people really criticized AOC for not reading enough abstruse material? or is the criticism that her positions do not comprise socialism? because her issues page doesn’t seem to include shared ownership of the means of production or fundamentally replacing capitalist class relations or forms of commodity production She's not a socialist. But in the past even social democrats put great stock in agitating and ideological education.
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Oct 16, 2018 18:59
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i personally have an edge because reading for half an hour to an hour before bedtime is one of the only ways i can fall asleep
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Oct 16, 2018 19:01
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Everyday you guys watch a marvel movie instead of read a book a trot sells out another cadre to the japanese, German, and Spanish military. What about Venom, which is a rallying call for the proletariat to go beast mode on the new robber barons of the world?
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Oct 16, 2018 19:02
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I bet a lot of really interesting 3 hour long YouTube videos will get made about it
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Oct 16, 2018 19:05
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GorgonLiker posted:i personally have an edge because reading for half an hour to an hour before bedtime is one of the only ways i can fall asleep this is, in fact, one of the underrated benefits of reading anything stalin wrote.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:05
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Impermanent posted:this is, in fact, one of the underrated benefits of reading anything stalin wrote. how a man who drank himself under the table every day, robbed banks, threw oranges at people constantly, and watched nothing but cowboy movies could be that boring is truly a mystery
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Oct 16, 2018 19:08
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jarofpiss posted:this whole no reading books thing has gotten really out of hand and someone should be reading the books (just not me) Right so, the "never read a book" thing seems like it originated and was targeted to a bunch of overly bookish postgrads, probably in phil or maybe history debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (after the revolution). It is good advice for this set because "leftist" academia is an enervating dead end that is dismissive of real issues of class struggle. I've literally never seen any ostensibly left crit theory prof give two shits if their undergrads had enough to eat, were paid fairly, etc. Now coming from a NOT academic left environment? Yeah sure, bread book, Bookchin, WitbD. Go hog wild
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Oct 16, 2018 19:09
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Everyday you guys watch a marvel movie instead of read a book a trot sells out another cadre to the japanese, German, and Spanish military.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:10
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THS posted:gently caress off. i hope whenever you need help its never there. bootstraps bitch motherfucker Sorry I didn't mean that to come off so mean when I was pairing it with some trot humour
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Oct 16, 2018 19:11
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coathat posted:Everyone should read. It’s not some great sacrifice to read a loving book Says a most likely childless middle class white guy that works in an office or is attending college. Be a housekeeper at hotel for $8.25 an hour with three kids and then tell me how much time you have to read dense books on Marxist theory, you privileged dickhead.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:12
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Graphic posted:Says a most likely childless middle class white guy that works in an office or is attending college. Be a housekeeper at hotel for $8.25 an hour with three kids and then tell me how much time you have to read dense books on Marxist theory, you privileged dickhead. lol
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Oct 16, 2018 19:15
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Graphic posted:Says a most likely childless middle class white guy that works in an office or is attending college. Be a housekeeper at hotel for $8.25 an hour with three kids and then tell me how much time you have to read dense books on Marxist theory, you privileged dickhead. then someone who has read those books should make an easily digestible pamphlet for her. someone still has to read the books, and just like every important but not pleasurable thing on the planet anybody can come up with excuses not to
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Oct 16, 2018 19:16
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I don't think Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is a housekeeper with three kids making $8.25 an hour
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Oct 16, 2018 19:17
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Graphic posted:Says a most likely childless middle class white guy that works in an office or is attending college. Be a housekeeper at hotel for $8.25 an hour with three kids and then tell me how much time you have to read dense books on Marxist theory, you privileged dickhead. Who said dense Marxist theory? How about some history or biography? I'll make a recommendation: "My Life" by this guy named Lev Trotskii who was close to many of the important figures in the Russian revolution. Very underrated!
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Oct 16, 2018 19:18
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i cant tell whats irony anymore
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Oct 16, 2018 19:19
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GorgonLiker posted:then someone who has read those books should make an easily digestible pamphlet for her. someone still has to read the books, and just like every important but not pleasurable thing on the planet anybody can come up with excuses not to no one has to read the books, they were written by losers. time to forge a new trail baby
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Oct 16, 2018 19:20
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to be honest, childless middle class guys have a hard time scheduling time to read between extended jackoff sessions and browsing steam for new titty games. and yet we never hear of their struggle.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:20
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