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John Wick of Dogs posted:Also it's tremendously stupid but I love "Old man yells at cloud" episode, it is just my kind of stupid. I feel this way about Move Along Home. IMO it's better watching it after seeing the whole series, since (like I said) the characters are mostly true-to-form and it's just a fun, bottle episode adventure romp, that still manages to stay true to the theme of "Backwater station dealing with an influx of new species from the other side of the galaxy." It's like a good holodeck episode except everyone's just themselves instead of Sherlock Holmes or Hippocrates Noah.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:19
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stolen from the Greatest Sagas thread in PYF FuturePastNow posted:
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Apr 2, 2020 21:21
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Stubborn moon farmer forces Kira to destroy his pizza oven is one of the best S1 episodes.(also introduces the Noh-Jay consortium and self sealing stem bolts) It's a good episode but it makes me unreasonably irritated because the "stubborn farmer/colonist/etc" feels like a well they go back to an awful lot, and every time they do it in Star Trek it puts our "heroes" on the opposite side and makes the stubborn people just like that so godammed crazy and stupid webcomic because otherwise the Starfleet people would come off as villainous. It's not unique to DS9 but I feel like it comes up a lot because of the Marquis stuff. Also that bit about Siddig's lines being ADR'd is loving hilarious. I really want to see the original performance.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:28
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The Progress farmer is unreasonable but it's one of the only times one of these characters unreasonableness is actually understandable and comes off as sympathetic. He's not some space future idiot who hosed off to go farm cause Utopia bored him, he made it through a holocaust and worked an untenable moon into a livable farm with his bare hands because it was the only way to survive.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:43
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A lot of people make the mistake of comparing season 1 of DS9 to, like, season 4-5 of TNG. There was no way it was gonna hit that level right off the bat. And it was very different from what the show turned into later. But on its own merits, it's a way more solid start than any other Trek got. Edit: Well, '90s Trek. TOS is a whole different thing really.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:51
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The Progress farmer is unreasonable but it's one of the only times one of these characters unreasonableness is actually understandable and comes off as sympathetic. He's not some space future idiot who hosed off to go farm cause Utopia bored him, he made it through a holocaust and worked an untenable moon into a livable farm with his bare hands because it was the only way to survive. Oh yeah for sure, and they did a bang up job casting that guy, he made him super likeable and you can really sympathize with both Kira and Commander Sisko's positions.
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Apr 2, 2020 22:19
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Prodigal Daughter is a good episode, but also feels kind of weird for a Star Trek story. Trill are a member of the Federation but Ezri's family is basically running a capitalist mining corp?
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Apr 3, 2020 00:24
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John Wick of Dogs posted:(also introduces the Noh-Jay consortium and self sealing stem bolts) I've got seven grosses if you're interested. Fidel Cuckstro posted:Prodigal Daughter is a good episode, but also feels kind of weird for a Star Trek story. Trill are a member of the Federation but Ezri's family is basically running a capitalist mining corp? New Sydney isn't part of the Federation. It was colonized by humans but it either left or never joined. The Tigan family own a company and aren't under Trill or Federation jurisdiction. Ezri is because she joined starfleet and has a symbiote. I believe the Orion Syndicate controls a lot of the planet, or at least has it's fingers in most of the pies. The planet is basically an example of corporatism controlling a planet/government and how corrupt and bad it is. I'd love to see more Orion Syndicate stuff, and maybe section 31 involvement.
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Apr 3, 2020 00:33
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Cranappleberry posted:I've got seven grosses if you're interested. But in part Star Trek's end of capitalism is something of a moral evolution, at least among humans. Seems like an issue if there are people who are like "yeah sure we live in what feels like utopia...but I really need to go exploit some labor!"
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Apr 3, 2020 00:37
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:But in part Star Trek's end of capitalism is something of a moral evolution, at least among humans. Seems like an issue if there are people who are like "yeah sure we live in what feels like utopia...but I really need to go exploit some labor!" I mean, Trill aren't human, so maybe they're fine with capitalism.
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Apr 3, 2020 01:49
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hello I am here in this period of no trek being on the air to tell you about brent spiner's old web series from 10 years ago where he plays himself with a failed career, that I remember for some reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42lC8Ust9SU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JveAkAo6FLA I don't remember it being great, but I watched the whole thing so I must have had fun. I think brent spiner is a kinda funny guy who ended up getting his biggest role as a very serious unfunny character on a long running show, he can play goofy pretty well too (I guess he did as Lore a few times). it also has cameos from a few trek people here and there I think.
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Apr 3, 2020 02:08
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:But in part Star Trek's end of capitalism is something of a moral evolution, at least among humans. Seems like an issue if there are people who are like "yeah sure we live in what feels like utopia...but I really need to go exploit some labor!" there's always gonna be assholes
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Apr 3, 2020 02:33
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piratepilates posted:I think brent spiner is a kinda funny guy who ended up getting his biggest role as a very serious unfunny character on a long running show, he can play goofy pretty well too (I guess he did as Lore a few times). it also has cameos from a few trek people here and there I think. wtf, Data is often quite funny
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Apr 3, 2020 02:49
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My kid has been watching Mathnet from Square One tv this week because my wife found it on YouTube. And I swear I remembered Brent Spiner being the male detective in this show, but one look at him and he obviously isn't, he looks nothing like Brent Spiner. But I see how my memory got that idea, his voice and speech mannerisms are really similar. Looked him up and he a character actor in minor roles in drat near everything except Star Trek
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Apr 3, 2020 03:12
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piratepilates posted:hello I am here in this period of no trek being on the air to tell you about brent spiner's old web series from 10 years ago where he plays himself with a failed career, that I remember for some reason. I did not know about this!
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Apr 3, 2020 03:13
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piratepilates posted:hello I am here in this period of no trek being on the air to tell you about brent spiner's old web series from 10 years ago where he plays himself with a failed career, that I remember for some reason. Yeah Fictional Brent made some sort of horrible-but-legal catastrophic misjudgment that made half the country want to kill him and made him radioactive in Hollywood. There's some speculation about what it was. This is the best episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBfT9H_2jM4
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Apr 3, 2020 04:21
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:But in part Star Trek's end of capitalism is something of a moral evolution, at least among humans. Seems like an issue if there are people who are like "yeah sure we live in what feels like utopia...but I really need to go exploit some labor!" Some people would probably go out of their way to go exploit labor. It might even be a weird kind of cultural cosplay thing, like lords-and-ladies poo poo nowadays.
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Apr 3, 2020 04:54
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DrNutt posted:Also that bit about Siddig's lines being ADR'd is loving hilarious. I really want to see the original performance. Supposedly, Siddig's idea was that the guy should talk weird because once he takes over Bashir, he's got to adapt to a slightly different tongue and throat than he's used to. It's the sort of thing that makes sense when you explain it, but someone really should have told him it was never going to work onscreen. Fidel Cuckstro posted:Prodigal Daughter is a good episode, but also feels kind of weird for a Star Trek story. Trill are a member of the Federation but Ezri's family is basically running a capitalist mining corp? Actually, it's never said if Trill's part of the Federation. In TNG, I think the intention was that they're not, because the Federation knows barely anything about them, but since so little of their TNG characterization is carried over to DS9, it's a bit of a grey area.
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Apr 3, 2020 05:44
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Wasn't Sisko some kind of diplomatic attache or something when he met Curzon? I always thought the implication was that Trill was on friendly terms with the Federation but never sought formal membership.
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Apr 3, 2020 07:35
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I think Sisko was an ensign serving at some station when they met, and then later Curzon was attached to the same ship Sisko had been posted to.
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Apr 3, 2020 07:52
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McSpanky posted:Wasn't Sisko some kind of diplomatic attache or something when he met Curzon? I always thought the implication was that Trill was on friendly terms with the Federation but never sought formal membership. Though in a sense, I suppose we do see that, don't we? 
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Apr 3, 2020 08:43
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Curzon was a Federation ambassador to the Klingons so I just sorta assumed that Trill was part of the Federation. Also Vulcan has been part of the Federation since the beginning but there was stuff Humans didn't know about them by TOS.
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Apr 3, 2020 10:22
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In TNG, the Trill were this species of parasitic worms that took over their humanoid hosts, who the Federation had never met before. In DS9, they were a symbiotic two species paring of worm and host who shared memories, and who had been part of the Federation since before the start of TOS. (I think Dax talks at one point about knowing a young McCoy). Star Trek never really cared about continuity like that.
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Apr 3, 2020 11:33
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If you really wanted to, you could handwave it as Trill was part of the Federation for a long time, but the symbionts weren’t common knowledge until the Odan incident on TNG. Maybe only people close to individual Trill, like Sisko, knew about the symbiont aspect of their culture before that.
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Apr 3, 2020 11:40
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piratepilates posted:I don't remember it being great, but I watched the whole thing so I must have had fun. I think brent spiner is a kinda funny guy who ended up getting his biggest role as a very serious unfunny character on a long running show, he can play goofy pretty well too (I guess he did as Lore a few times). it also has cameos from a few trek people here and there I think.
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Apr 3, 2020 12:47
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Nessus posted:Yeah, Trill seemed to be an allied but independent power. It would have been interesting to see the Trill have a sort of junior partner species the way that humans got cast a bit as the junior partner to Vulcans... 
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Apr 3, 2020 14:05
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The Trill are the junior partner species to the symbiotes.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:30
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8one6 posted:That scene would have been a thousand times better if it had been Nechayev.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:31
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Yeah Curzon representing the Federation at the Khitomer accords really doesn't match with the Feds knowing nothing about Trills in that TNG epsiode, best not to think about it.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:37
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The Trill from that TNG episode were from the Northern Provinces, obviously.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:46
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I think Sisko was an ensign serving at some station when they met, and then later Curzon was attached to the same ship Sisko had been posted to. Curzon wanted to carry on his Greek-style mentorship of the young Sisko. 
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Apr 3, 2020 16:08
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The Trill in TNG also couldn't use the transporter, so a ton of issues there.
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Apr 3, 2020 16:14
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bull3964 posted:The Trill in TNG also couldn't use the transporter, so a ton of issues there. Wasn't this just because they didn't want to reveal the nature of their symbiosis?
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Apr 3, 2020 16:29
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A lot of recurring Trek aliens change so much when they become recurring that the first appearance is probably best ignored.
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Apr 3, 2020 16:35
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Kazy posted:Wasn't this just because they didn't want to reveal the nature of their symbiosis? I don't think so. I think they marked that it was unusual that the ambassador wasn't arriving via the transporter, but when the emergency situation happened they wanted to beam out the ambassador he flat out told him that no, it would kill him.
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Apr 3, 2020 16:45
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bull3964 posted:I don't think so. I think they marked that it was unusual that the ambassador wasn't arriving via the transporter, but when the emergency situation happened they wanted to beam out the ambassador he flat out told him that no, it would kill him. They patched out that problem in the February 2370 firmware update.
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Apr 3, 2020 16:51
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Just got to the DS9 episode where Odo invents a new level of genocide, erasing an entire planet from existence for his crush. Honestly it's shocking how few Nazis this show has made. Edit: this next episode is dedicated to the brave freedom fighters of the Maquis. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 16:53
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 e: Everyone pretend I photoshopped Trill spots onto the puppet
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Apr 3, 2020 17:35
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Grand Fromage posted:A lot of recurring Trek aliens change so much when they become recurring that the first appearance is probably best ignored. Sometimes a few more appearances too. Like the Ferengi pre-DS9. The Borg work the opposite way: they started off better.
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Apr 3, 2020 18:12
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Sash! posted:Sometimes a few more appearances too. They assimilated the bad Ferengi, the weird trill, and some Talaxians and that's why they got worse
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Apr 3, 2020 18:44
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