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eXXon posted:2 car payments at $1100/month (I realize morons can sign up to pay even more, but still that's nutso) and they're whining about how unfair $350/month in property taxes is. lol. As an american and thread lurker uh... Lol I pay uh... 1821 dollars a month for mortgage, property taxes, and my homeowners insurance combined. How are they paying 400 a month in gas? HOW MUCH ARE THEY DRIVING?
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Feb 22, 2023 01:20
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AtomikKrab posted:As an american and thread lurker uh... Lol Welcome to Canada.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:28
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qhat posted:Currently immigration levels are required to just maintain Canada's population. Any population growth is almost entirely dependent on a ton of immigration continuing into the future. If you gently caress with that, Canada's population will rapidly age and actually decline as the boomers die off. I don't think that hitting a particular population growth target should be a higher priority than addressing the housing crisis, and I don't think I'm alone here in thinking that. Yes, we need to bring in immigrants to ensure we can provide for retirees in the future, but we have an immediate housing crisis that is getting more dire with each passing year. We should kick the retiree-spending can down the road a decade and make housing the near-term policy priority.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:38
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AtomikKrab posted:As an american and thread lurker uh... Lol qhat posted:Welcome to Canada. 
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Feb 22, 2023 01:41
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Here's JT in 2014 saying we need to fix the TFW program. Add onto the pile of his broken promises. https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/05/how_to_fix_the_broken_temporary_foreign_worker_program_justin_trudeau.html
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Feb 22, 2023 01:45
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I myself woke up this morning to find an immigrant family of 6 encamped in my living room, now I'm homeless. Why has Justin Trudeau not done anything about this??? Stop blaming the immigrants we need for the things our governments have hosed up for decades and decades.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:01
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PT6A posted:I myself woke up this morning to find an immigrant family of 6 encamped in my living room, now I'm homeless. Why has Justin Trudeau not done anything about this??? There's a clear difference between blaming immigrants and blaming the federal government's immigration policy.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:08
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Oakland Martini posted:There's a clear difference between blaming immigrants and blaming the federal government's immigration policy. "Look, I'm not saying it's the immigrants' fault, I'm saying it's the fault of the people who allowed them to be here in the first place." I'm gonna say... that's pretty gross.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:12
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Oakland Martini posted:I don't think that hitting a particular population growth target should be a higher priority than addressing the housing crisis, and I don't think I'm alone here in thinking that. Yes, we need to bring in immigrants to ensure we can provide for retirees in the future, but we have an immediate housing crisis that is getting more dire with each passing year. We should kick the retiree-spending can down the road a decade and make housing the near-term policy priority. Those two problems are not mutually exclusive. The housing crisis is not a symptom of high levels of immigration. High levels of immigration are a symptom of decades long lack of government support for young families and driving up costs of living to benefit only the wealth homeowners. If Canadians were able to have a ton of kids without risking destitution, we wouldn't need to have high levels of immigration. Shut off the taps to immigration today and the cost of everything, especially taxes, goes up to account for an acute shortage of labor. I mean you can say "well yeah we need immigrants, but" but it's not going to change the fundamental facts of the situation that without high levels of immigration, the high standard of living you are used to evaporates over the next ten years.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:15
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AtomikKrab posted:As an american and thread lurker uh... Lol The Canadian average is $1.46 a liter, that's $5.52 canadian a gallon. Even in 30mpg vehicles, that's 2,173 miles per month for 2 vehicles. 1,086.5 miles per vehicle per month, which is less than the average
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Feb 22, 2023 02:23
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Powershift posted:The Canadian average is $1.46 a liter, that's $5.52 canadian a gallon. That’s a lot of driving though, right? I hit maybe 1200km/month and I have to commute to the rear end end of nowhere.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:33
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Purgatory Glory posted:I'd be really curious what new immigrants think of the situation. Are they feeling like they were lied to when it comes to Canada being prepared for them. Are they telling family back home it's a poo poo show? Imagine picking up the family and heading to Australia cause you see ads saying move to Sydney and then you get there an line up to view a rental property with 100 other people. Earlier this year we found out my wife's cousin, aunt, and uncle are planning to go back to the Philippines. Aunt moved here around 2011, uncle and cousin a few years after that. Not tfws, they intended to stay and all are PRs. They said they won't even come close to achieving a fraction of what my wife's Dad achieved here when he immigrated in the late 70s. He was able to get a union job, buy a house, and raise two kids on just his salary (Mrs Cob's mom couldn't work for reasons I won't get into). Now he has a pension, they live in a paid off house, and he retired at age 60 despite coming close to bankruptcy at one point in the 80s. Aunt and uncle are pretty old now and won't be able to work much longer. Cousin hasn't had much luck advancing her career here and thinks she can do better back home. The best part is she married a Canadian and he's going with her if they leave. All four live in a single two-bedroom apartment. I think they have some savings and they'd rather take it home than have it run out in six months if they get renovicted and their rent triples overnight.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:48
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Cold on a Cob posted:Earlier this year we found out my wife's cousin, aunt, and uncle are planning to go back to the Philippines. Aunt moved here around 2011, uncle and cousin a few years after that. Not tfws, they intended to stay and all are PRs. Coworker just showed me what his brand new build for 60k looks like in the Philippines. Modern looking, would be worth over a million in lower mainland
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Feb 22, 2023 03:49
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Femtosecond posted:wow 33 whole units in Saskatoon. I'm sure we'll have this problem fixed up in no time. We could really blow the hell out of them with our 14 billion dollar jets though.
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Feb 22, 2023 14:18
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qhat posted:Those two problems are not mutually exclusive. The housing crisis is not a symptom of high levels of immigration. High levels of immigration are a symptom of decades long lack of government support for young families and driving up costs of living to benefit only the wealth homeowners. If Canadians were able to have a ton of kids without risking destitution, we wouldn't need to have high levels of immigration. Shut off the taps to immigration today and the cost of everything, especially taxes, goes up to account for an acute shortage of labor. I’d like to know where you’re getting your labour shortage figures from in this era of unprecedented automation and exponentially higher skill floor for labour, if you subtract the jobs required to keep the immigration->housing Ponzi scheme growing? Do you mean all the jobs employers want to fill at 1998 wages that no one but desperate immigrants are willing to take while living 2 to a room like Cob’s in-laws because it beats living conditions back home? “Government caused this housing problem but let’s make the problem worse through enormous immigration” is no solution at all dude. While we work on the proper solution it’s super easy to just shut down the immigration spigot for a while and see who complains; it sure won’t be my immigrant neighbours, but then again they’re not landlords. Hey in other news I’m a consulting CTO on a Canadian startup targeted at providing services to foreign students, through this I’ve been working with a few deans of big colleges in Ontario and the numbers they’ve shown me have been absolutely eye watering if like me you weren’t in the know about this industry (figures should be accurate within 10% or so): * Canada has around 800k foreign students living here at any given time, all of whom need a place to live and dwarfs on-campus accommodations * they have a guaranteed path to citizenship after 3 years iirc? of full time education, and once they’re citizens they can bring the whole family over - anyone still repeating that Canada is only importing doctors or something is waaay out of touch * foreign students account for something like SEVENTY PERCENT of revenues in the educational system, and the vast majority of profits * as a result of this there is immense pressure applied to faculty to keep foreign students enrolled regardless of academic performance, plagiarism etc * something like 40% of foreign students are T4 earners So cheer up Canadians, it’d not just our housing we’re selling off to the highest foreign bidders but our educational system too! 👍🏻 Now before the -phobe and -ism accusations start flying and I eat another probe, when a globalist mouthpiece like the Globe and Mail has a real mask-off moment by dropping an article like that and laying bare the immigration->housing Ponzi scheme currently destroying the standard of living for every Canadian who isn’t a landlord, it’s absolutely time for a frank examination of who gets to live in this country, why they get to live here and who benefits, because it’s clear the average Canadian is getting crushed in reality right here and now and not in theory 10 years from now. Fortunately that examination does in fact seem to be happening pretty much everywhere, with a few forgettable exceptions. 🙄
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Feb 22, 2023 14:57
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Internaut! posted:...the average Canadian is getting crushed in reality right here and now and not in theory 10 years from now. This is precisely my point. We have serious problems in the present that are clearly being exacerbated by the dramatic increase in immigration. We can't completely ignore this because we need to make sure we can still fund pensions and health care for retirees 10-15 years down the line, but we shouldn't completely ignore the latter either. We need to be honest about the fact that these two issues pull optimal immigration policy in opposite directions. Reducing (but not zeroing out!) immigration temporarily is clearly the right way forward.
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Feb 22, 2023 15:53
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The housing problems in the present are not due to immigration, they are due to the provinces failing to implement effective housing policy over the past 40 years. It would be a terrible mistake if the federal government allowed themselves to in effect be blackmailed by provinces and municipalities to decrease immigration levels (with all the long term economic damage that would entail) to legitimate their failed housing policies.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:31
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Health Services posted:The housing problems in the present are not due to immigration, they are due to the provinces failing to implement effective housing policy over the past 40 years. My house existing is a problem that can be kicked down the road for a while, but I'm cold right now, I think I'll set the living room on fire for heat. Reasonably, you simply have no choice but to address immediate problems first, and I don't see any reason why I may come to regret my chosen action to solve this crisis. That can, after all, be handled later. Sure I've ignored the fact that the furnace is broken for the past ten years, but we can't live in the past.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:41
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PT6A posted:My house existing is a problem that can be kicked down the road for a while, but I'm cold right now, I think I'll set the living room on fire for heat. Reasonably, you simply have no choice but to address immediate problems first, and I don't see any reason why I may come to regret my chosen action to solve this crisis. That can, after all, be handled later. Sure I've ignored the fact that the furnace is broken for the past ten years, but we can't live in the past. I see no problems with that logic. Just don't forget to blame future problems on the "globalists". Given the drastic effect of compounding returns, I'm very surprised by advocacy for the abandonment of national economic planning to ensure properly funded retirement and pension plans, health care, and long-term care. That is Brexit-level policy thinking.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:06
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Health Services posted:I see no problems with that logic. Just don't forget to blame future problems on the "globalists". "Abandonment" is a complete mischaracterization of my view. In fact, I'd say that the statement "immigration policy should be made with only pension/healthcare funding in mind" implies abandoning the kind of comprehensive, systematic national planning that we ought to be doing. We have competing priorities, and we ought to recognize this and take all of them into account when making decisions about things like immigration. It's true that the housing shortage is in large part a result of past failures on the part of provincial governments. But we can't just ignore these failures when making national decisions about things like immigration policy. The current stock of housing (and its expected future trajectory) represents a constraint in the problem of determining optimal immigration policy. Pretending like this constraint doesn't exist will lead to worse outcomes; it will play a role in determining the effects of immigration policy whether we like it or not.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:50
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Internaut! posted:I’d like to know where you’re getting your labour shortage figures from in this era of unprecedented automation and exponentially higher skill floor for labour, if you subtract the jobs required to keep the immigration->housing Ponzi scheme growing? Do you mean all the jobs employers want to fill at 1998 wages that no one but desperate immigrants are willing to take while living 2 to a room like Cob’s in-laws because it beats living conditions back home? You realize that recent immigrants and TFWs being exploited for cheap labour is largely to the benefit of Canada at their expense, right? How those benefits are doled out is another question - partly it's lining shareholder pockets - but agriculture, hospitality and food services jobs are mostly not being automated away any time soon, and mostly not super high margin industries. If your "solution" is really turn off all immigration immediately and see what happens, nobody is considering that because it's patently stupid. Internaut! posted:Hey in other news I’m a consulting CTO on a Canadian startup targeted at providing services to foreign students, through this I’ve been working with a few deans of big colleges in Ontario and the numbers they’ve shown me have been absolutely eye watering if like me you weren’t in the know about this industry (figures should be accurate within 10% or so): Since you're working on this, do you know where and how most foreign students are living? You need a fat stack of cash to pay for even a year of international undergrad tuition, but that doesn't mean that every foreign undergrad is buying a condo on arrival. I'd guess most are living in cramped shared accommodation, to the benefit of a true blue Canadian landlord. Internaut! posted:* they have a guaranteed path to citizenship after 3 years iirc? of full time education, and once they’re citizens they can bring the whole family over - anyone still repeating that Canada is only importing doctors or something is waaay out of touch It's not guaranteed. A grad student in my former department had his citizenship application denied due to "insufficient evidence of adaptability" or some poo poo (he was close to finishing his thesis, had published papers written in English, even done some English media bits, wtf?). I also have a feeling you're underestimating the difficulty of getting family sponsorship approved for "the whole family". Who thinks Canada is only importing doctors? Are they imagining that all refugee admissions are highly trained professionals? Speaking of which, the Liberals were supposed to have solved the foreign (mostly medical, but other fields too) professional licensing problem... I'm guessing that hasn't happened yet, despite an ongoing staffing crisis (no we can't just pay nurses more, stop asking). Internaut! posted:* foreign students account for something like SEVENTY PERCENT of revenues in the educational system, and the vast majority of profits What do you mean by "selling off"? You know foreign students don't literally buy an ownership stake in the universities they attend, right? They're largely being exploited to prop up an otherwise unsustainable "industry". And the fact that many foreign students are working to get by would certainly seem to indicate that they're contributing to society. (probably a good chunk of those T4 earners are grad students doing TA/RA jobs) Internaut! posted:Now before the -phobe and -ism accusations start flying and I eat another probe, when a globalist mouthpiece like the Globe and Mail has a real mask-off moment by dropping an article like that and laying bare the immigration->housing Ponzi scheme currently destroying the standard of living for every Canadian who isn’t a landlord, it’s absolutely time for a frank examination of who gets to live in this country, why they get to live here and who benefits, because it’s clear the average Canadian is getting crushed in reality right here and now and not in theory 10 years from now. Yeah, so where is this conversation happening? The Liberals aren't changing course on immigration. PP was last seen complaining about the immigration application backlog and vowing to speed up the process. Also, the average Canadian lives in a home owned by a member of their household. You can quibble about definitions of home ownership rates but it's hard to deny that it's higher than 50%, and a good half of those are homes with mortgages completely paid off. So you need to do a great deal more work to show that immigration is the one thing crushing the average Canadian (who, incidentally, may or may not be an immigrant).
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Feb 22, 2023 18:12
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eXXon posted:Who thinks Canada is only importing doctors? Are they imagining that all refugee admissions are highly trained professionals? Apparently, yes. The actual cause here is a couple decades of monetary policy that permitted people to pay much higher prices than their incomes would conceivably allow in a remotely sane system, but it's a lot easier to blame a constant stream of wealthy immigrants coming in and buying up all the housing (something that doesn't exist and never has). That monetary policy is over; it will become clear that it was the only significant driver of housing prices.
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Feb 22, 2023 18:38
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Housing prices were driven up because the supply was artificially restricted by municipal policies. Compare the much higher growth rate of suburbs like Abbotsford and Barrie to their metropolitan centres of Vancouver and Toronto. This is in no way because there were natural limits on the population of the metropolitan areas. If there was, the current growth targets would be nonsensical. No one wants a three hour commute into downtown. Cheap credit by itself isn't going to drive up prices unless there's an underlying failure of matching demand and planning for growth--which demonstrably happened.
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Feb 22, 2023 19:00
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The problem with "we gotta pause immigration until we can figure out what is going on" is that even now, even though it has been abundantly clear for years that there is a crisis in housing and municipalities are primarily responsible for everything housing, municipalities are still dragging the puck on whether they should change any of their practices at all from what they've been doing for the last decades. At this moment Vancouver planners are still going through a consultation process on whether they should allow fourplexes, a housing form that Vancouver area home builders have already said is likely not viable to build given the current price of SFHs that they'd replace. That's the sort of utterly mild and ineffectual level of policy change that city staff and councillors are (ever so slowly) mulling over. There's no evidence that policy makers and leaders are currently sufficiently engaged or interested in solving the housing crisis, so if anything pausing immigration will only allow them to say "whew problem solved" and enable them to continue to do nothing. That benefits those currently comfortably housed. Doesn't benefit anyone else.
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Feb 22, 2023 19:21
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Femtosecond posted:The problem with "we gotta pause immigration until we can figure out what is going on" is that even now, even though it has been abundantly clear for years that there is a crisis in housing and municipalities are primarily responsible for everything housing, municipalities are still dragging the puck on whether they should change any of their practices at all from what they've been doing for the last decades. The moral hazard issue is certainly a more substantive argument than "the effects of immigration on house prices and rents are axiomatically irrelevant."
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Feb 22, 2023 20:01
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I’m not sure how to get voters to vote for what they think will make themselves poorer. The plurality (majority?) of people who benefit from the status quo will destroy the country (probably unwittingly, but not certainly so) before they allow themselves to become poorer than they think they are today.
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Feb 22, 2023 20:02
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The idea that international students are able to immediately bring over family members after getting PR in 3 years is not accurate btw. It's 2 years after graduation to get enough experience to apply for pr, then waiting for provincial nominess application to process, then a waiting period before you are eligible to sponsor someone (5 years for a spouse) THEN a couple years to process the application. Realistically, I see most of my employees waiting around 10 years for family unification.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:47
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In extremely Ralph Wiggum and/or PeePee voice: "Trudeau was at Toronto Pearson handing out Canadian citizenship to every arriving passenger, and I saw the immigrant, and the immigrant looked at me!"
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Feb 22, 2023 21:53
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Internaut! posted:I’d like to know where you’re getting your labour shortage figures from in this era of unprecedented automation and exponentially higher skill floor for labour, if you subtract the jobs required to keep the immigration->housing Ponzi scheme growing? Do you mean all the jobs employers want to fill at 1998 wages that no one but desperate immigrants are willing to take while living 2 to a room like Cob’s in-laws because it beats living conditions back home? quote:“Government caused this housing problem but let’s make the problem worse through enormous immigration” is no solution at all dude. While we work on the proper solution it’s super easy to just shut down the immigration spigot for a while and see who complains; it sure won’t be my immigrant neighbours, but then again they’re not landlords. quote:Hey in other news I’m a consulting CTO on a Canadian startup targeted at providing services to foreign students, through this I’ve been working with a few deans of big colleges in Ontario and the numbers they’ve shown me have been absolutely eye watering if like me you weren’t in the know about this industry (figures should be accurate within 10% or so): Ah yeah, we get down to it, it's the foreigners that are the problem and nobody has any idea. quote:* Canada has around 800k foreign students living here at any given time, all of whom need a place to live and dwarfs on-campus accommodations quote:* they have a guaranteed path to citizenship after 3 years iirc? of full time education, and once they’re citizens they can bring the whole family over - anyone still repeating that Canada is only importing doctors or something is waaay out of touch quote:* foreign students account for something like SEVENTY PERCENT of revenues in the educational system, and the vast majority of profits quote:* as a result of this there is immense pressure applied to faculty to keep foreign students enrolled regardless of academic performance, plagiarism etc quote:* something like 40% of foreign students are T4 earners quote:So cheer up Canadians, it’d not just our housing we’re selling off to the highest foreign bidders but our educational system too! 👍🏻 I don't need prove or accuse you of being anything. Your post alone is enough for people to form their own conclusions, but at least Those loving Globalists have your back on something, for once.
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Feb 23, 2023 03:34
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It's psychologically very comfortable for me to blame all my problems and hardships on the Perfidious Other, qhat, and I think it's quite rude that you would seek to take that away from me, with your facts and reason.
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Feb 23, 2023 04:30
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Immigrants are stealing jobs from hard-working Canadians like this guy:Internaut! posted:I manage to bill 80 hours a week while working maybe 20 by responding immediately to every client communication Internaut! posted:some of my clients are TPS and the RCMP I guess I can respect hustling cops, though.
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Feb 23, 2023 05:09
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qhat posted:Boomers hoarding housing are. More anecdata: my wife's parents refuse to sell their drat house and will probably die in it. To their credit they've offered to let my wife and I live with them, ditto my wife's Aunt and her family, and they absolutely mean it, but we'd rather they just sell the drat thing already and downsize. My prior landlord was planning to eventually downsize into the condo they were renting to us. But then covid hit and they sold the condo so they could keep their house. Meanwhile my condo apartment building is absolutely FULL of kids, probably every other apartment has kids in it (including all the 1BR condos).
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Feb 23, 2023 12:05
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Internaut! posted:* foreign students account for something like SEVENTY PERCENT of revenues in the educational system, and the vast majority of profits so if you ban international students domestic students would need to pay 250% what they are currently paying in tuition to make up for the revenue. I think that's gonna get plenty of complaints
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Feb 23, 2023 15:37
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Typo posted:so if you ban international students domestic students would need to pay 250% what they are currently paying in tuition to make up for the revenue. I think that's gonna get plenty of complaints You act as if provincial governments wouldn't and haven't. 
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Feb 23, 2023 16:02
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Following up on a previous story: lol, lmaoquote:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority
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Feb 23, 2023 18:22
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LPT: If you're trying to renovict your tenants just turn off the water and suffer zero consequences. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6756806
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Feb 23, 2023 18:27
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Alternatively, you can turn on the water: Tenants 'stunned' by eviction days after apartment sprinkler system floods some units
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Feb 23, 2023 18:41
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Femtosecond posted:Following up on a previous story: lol, lmao A bunch of those cities/towns tried to simply declare their housing plans to be in compliance.
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Feb 23, 2023 22:18
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It's the return of everyone's favourite phrase, "pent up demand" ! Watch out millennial losers, here come the zoomers. quote:When the dam breaks: Pent-up demand for housing is growing and it could lead to a ‘bigger than ever’ crisis. The millennial generation should have been "unleashed on the Canadian housing market" uhhhh about a decade ago. The fact that they apparently haven't according to the commentator in this article is indicative of the severe shortage of housing that they can afford to buy. For the zoomers it's even worse as rents have spiked so high that they're being prevented from being "unleashed" on the rental market, with the amount of children continuing to live with their parents ticking up and up.
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Feb 24, 2023 00:02
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Wishful thinking from industry folks desperately trying to talk up a market that's facing headwinds it hasn't seen in decades.
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Feb 24, 2023 05:20
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