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Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

CharlieWhiskey posted:

Good simple XJ preference order unearthed from a time long ago. Having owned a 96, 98 and 00, this all checks out so far.

I'm starting to look at XJs, so this is helpful. I was already thinking '97-'99, so it looks like I'm on the right track. Is there any reliability difference between the auto and manual? What are the usual problem spots to check, besides making sure the unibody is unmolested? I'm mainly interested in mechanicals, because we don't get much rust here (CA).

Is there any reason I should consider ZJs? I like the boxy simplicity of XJs, and I see the extra "luxury" items in the ZJ to be negatives, but maybe they aren't so bad?

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Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

Raluek posted:

I'm starting to look at XJs, so this is helpful. I was already thinking '97-'99, so it looks like I'm on the right track. Is there any reliability difference between the auto and manual? What are the usual problem spots to check, besides making sure the unibody is unmolested? I'm mainly interested in mechanicals, because we don't get much rust here (CA).

Is there any reason I should consider ZJs? I like the boxy simplicity of XJs, and I see the extra "luxury" items in the ZJ to be negatives, but maybe they aren't so bad?

Still keeping an eye on the local market. I know the 4.0 has a reputation for longevity, but how high can you trust the mileage to get before it's a serious concern? I've been using "under 250K" as a rule of thumb, but it seems like all the inexpensive ones are above that. Safe, or inviting disaster?

So I thought maybe I'd look at ZJs, since they're often significantly cheaper. I thought I'd want to look for one with a 4.0, but they have transmission problems, right? Don't the V8s have reliability issues too, or is that overblown?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

Veeb0rg posted:

Dash gauges are only a half step above idiot lights they should be believed as such. Grab a multimeter and put the probes on the battery terminals. Running should get you 13.9v-14.4v depending on conditions.

If you have doubts run to your local autoparts store and they can run a charging system test for ya free of charge usually.

Well, if the voltage at the battery tests fine (which it should, if he's not having issues starting) it could indeed be the gauge, but I'd think it's something like a bad ground or a mechanical problem with a +12 wire/connection between the battery and the gauge. Fuse box? grungy ring terminal somewhere?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

I believe those are mostly to simulate the tension of the throttle valve cable on an automatic, since if they size the throttle body return spring, throttle valve cable tension, throttle levers, and pedal all for auto and then add a 50 cent spring to add the missing tension it is cheaper than having auto and manual versions of some or all of those parts. My MJ did fine without one for some time before I saw one at the junkyard and realized mine was missing (since I never put it on when swapping from 2wd auto to 4wd manual.)

How does the auto throttle cable differ from the manual throttle cable? The TJ doesn't still use a kickdown or TV cable, does it?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

I meant the throttle valve cable, yeah. I dunno about TJs, but any xxRH series transmission is going to have one while I don't believe xxRE transmissions (same thing for the same model number, just with electronic governor control and sense instead of hydraulic w/ line pressure controlled by the TV cable) have one, not sure. 4.0L XJs with the AW4 used a TV cable all the way up till 2001, with the transmission being essentially the same (aside from some minor changes and sensor additions over the years) since 1987.

Huh, I figured by then they'd be on an electronic transmission. I think GM switched from the 4L60 to the 4L60E sometime in the early 90s. I'm surprised they still were using non-electronic transmissions into the 2000s.

TotalLossBrain posted:

That reminds me....I broke the TV cable (or is it the kickdown cable?) on my 94 ZJ (V8) by merely touching the plastic at the throttle body. I haven't replaced it yet. It drives fine, but I cannot recall if kickdown happens or not.
I should probably replace it but drat, it looks like such a bitch to get to and Mopar wants a lot of money for that cable.

If it's just a kickdown, you can run without it. But if it's a TV cable, get on that fast. At least, if it's anything like GM TV cables. IIRC, it controls the line pressure in the trans, so if it doesn't have the correct tension on it you can cause issues in the trans. But that's all I know about that! You might want to do more reading on the subject.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

gileadexile posted:

What's a good OBD II dongle to use with Torque? Starting a new job tomorrow, gonna add some stuff to the Amazon Jeep wishlist.

I don't have a Jeep, but this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS has worked well for me so far.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

TotalLossBrain posted:

These right here. Reasonable price, easy install, and worlds better than the stock lights.

I wish those had glass lenses. I'd worry about scratching up an expensive headlight like that.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
There's a '99 XJ in the San Jose pick n pull, although they don't say what trans is in it. Unfortunately, I just moved 100 miles away from there last week, so I can't just drop by and yank the ECU for you.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

mashed_penguin posted:

I had a rear end clunk on my TJ recently that was worn rear shock bushings. Of course they were the last thing I checked :v:

Why would you keep checking once you had found the problem?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
Harbor Freight has those socket caps for ridiculously cheap, too.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

mod sassinator posted:

Ooph sorry for your loss. Yeah best you can do is watch Craigslist and eBay after notifying the police.

Christmas came early for my XJ, lots of parts getting ready for drum brake overhaul and complete tie rod replacement:


Can't wait to see how it drives after getting all this stuff in. Will probably find I need to do some u-joints next. :)

Might as well upgrade to the ZJ tie rod, though, right? Stronger, drops in, uses the same tie rod end as the center/drag link. I don't see the downside if you're replacing everything anyway.

CharlieWhiskey posted:

If a 2000 XJ voltage suddenly drops from normal to 9ish on a long drive, but no lights dim, is it more likely the battery or the alternator? I'm 75 minutes from my tools and haven't tried to start it since parking at work this morning. Hoping I don't have to call a tow truck for a jump :/

If no lights dim, it can't actually be getting that low. I'd guess that it's the wiring between the battery and the gauge. The voltage in my Chevy fluctuates at idle (I guess the alternator doesn't like the idle RPM) and it's very noticeable if I have my headlights on, and it only dips down to about 12 volts.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

I tried listening to this multiple times with 5.1 speakers as well as headphones and it's super weird. I can't get a handle on that sound. Have you had a recent brake job? Maybe a stuck parking brake mechanism somewhere?

I agree with IOC. Sounds like it's about 4x the wheel rpm, so driveshaft or tcase or something related to all that. If it's not obvious from a quick inspection looking over and shaking all the bits you can get to, maybe take out one driveshaft at a time to see if that stops the noise. And while you have the shafts out you can prob get a better idea of how lovely the u-joints may or may not be.

E: Those probably have a slip yoke, so be careful you don't lose ATF out of there if you pull the rear shaft.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

CharlieWhiskey posted:

My 2000 XJ has wacky voltage at the moment. While running, voltage reads either a rock steady 14, a fluctuating 11-13, or dead flat 9 (still running, although the directional sounds labored). It tends towards 14 while running and 9 while idling, but varies every few minutes. Does this sound like a bad battery? Or alternator? Or another thing?

While not strictly Jeep related, when I noticed this happening in my Chevy it was because I had overtightened the main output terminal on the alternator. The threads had stripped, so it never truly tightened down. The voltage would read fine most of the time, but would act as you describe as the cable jostled around occasionally. You might want to wiggle the wiring and see if there's a particular spot that has an effect on your voltage reading.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

I saw various advice when I replaced my head, the usual internet YOU HAVE TO RETORQUE OR DEATH IS CERTAIN vs. I'VE DRIVEN SIX MILLION MILES AND IT RUNS GREAT. In the end, I never did retorque and figured it would be fine.

Installed the new bolts around 189,100 miles. About 1yr/5k miles later, I noticed a very faint strange smell in my exhaust... I ignored it for several months until it got noticeably sweet and since everything else seemed fine and someone on here suggested it, I pulled the valve cover and retorqued all the bolts in spec sequence. Bolts at front and back were tight, but I got as much as 3/4 turn on 1 & 2, with ~1/2 on 4,5 & 3,6. The coolant smell went away immediately.

This was a headbolts.com kit #chbs-1128, which as far as I could find was the only really correct matching set for a renix head/block.

This is just general purpose information (i.e. not Jeep-specific), but my understanding is that if the bolts are TTY, never touch them again. If they're not, pulling the valve cover(s) and going around the pattern with your torque wrench after you've broken the motor in is probably a good idea. Unless the threads have curing sealant on them, in which case it's back to don't.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

Pham Nuwen posted:

This guy might want to do a trade for my 1970 Volvo 164. Am I completely stupid to consider trading for something so old and slow, or are these still pretty easy to work on?



https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/cto/d/1948-cj2-willys-jeep/6244627593.html

The "newer motor" thing is interesting. I'm a big fan of keeping the original engine, but if he's changed engines (and maybe transmissions) it might be able to go above 40, which would make it useful for getting out to my deer hunting unit and other off-road areas.

Well, there's no pictures underhood, but I think there are a lot of similarities between the F-head and the OHV, so maybe that was the upgrade. The 2A is way more attractive than the 3B, so I'd consider it if it's the way you want it. I'm kind of astonished that a flatty in rough condition is that expensive, though, so your volvo might be a better value if it's nice

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

IOwnCalculus posted:

So after turtling on a rock, my WJ has developed an intermittent clanking that only happened initially on hard bumps. I thought at first I had snapped some bolts holding a slider on, but nope. Then I thought suspension, but I can't recreate the noise by cycling it by hand.

I noticed tonight that it clanks every time I start it. Perhaps exhaust / crossmember interference?

Almost sounds like a mount. Maybe it put weight on some part of the drivetrain that tore a mount, and it flops around sometimes?

Could be the exhaust if it doesn't sound like something heavy, though

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
The 5.3 is a way better motor, and will put out better numbers with less work. That said, did he run the motor upside down for long? How many miles on it? I wouldn't trade a fresh rebuilt 350 for a 200k mile 5.3 that you could get in a junkyard for a few hundred bucks.

Upgrades that you pay good money to get in a 350 that are stock in a 5.3:
  • Roller cam
  • Roller rockers
  • 1-piece rear main seal
  • Rubber gaskets everywhere
  • 6-bolt main bearings
  • Aluminum heads
  • MPFI and distributorless spark

Not to mention the great port design and real high lift capability. Is it a gen3 or gen4 motor? Gen4 has some improvements, but you have to run DBW.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
this guy got dropped off today and i am excited. ive wanted a CJ since i was a kid riding in my grandpa's, and i also love AMC stuff, so this was inevitable.

going to try to get it ship shape for a trip through the mojave in the spring with a group of friends. im sure i will have tons of questions for this thread in the next several weeks.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

Raluek posted:

this guy got dropped off today and i am excited. ive wanted a CJ since i was a kid riding in my grandpa's, and i also love AMC stuff, so this was inevitable.

going to try to get it ship shape for a trip through the mojave in the spring with a group of friends. im sure i will have tons of questions for this thread in the next several weeks.



ok so the basic rundown is that, as-delivered, it has four major impediments to being a working vehicle. namely:
  • the engine runs like poo poo
  • the brakes are stuck
  • the rear spring perches aren't welded to the axle
  • the tires are from 2004
i just put on a reman caliper today, so that's sorted (until i get a big box from rockauto and do the pads and rotors, and audit the hub bearings and seals). it rolls and stops now, so that's good enough for the time being.

im tinkering with the motor on and off. it feels like a timing problem (coughs backfires and dies with throttle) but could just need the carb gone through too. i know how to do that stuff, i think, and progress is being made as i check off potential causes from the list.

any reason i shouldn't stick weld the spring perches? i have the HF 90A inverter welder which i was planning on using, but if it would be a better idea to MIG it i can borrow my friend's machine.

anyway, i mostly made this post for tires.

it's currently got 35s, and i intend to stay with that size. i don't need daily driver comfort, but will be driving it on the road, so i was thinking mud terrains. mostly concerned with performance in the dirt/sand/rocks, but it does have to drive on the road too. bay area, so no snow/ice driving unless i go out to the mountains to play.

KM3s are on the table, but im also looking at cooper's offerings. not opposed to splashing out for the BFGs, but i do appreciate getting bang for my buck. seems like everyone on the internet raves about the discoverer stt pro, and they also make the evolution M/T. it's not super clear to me what the differences are between the two, other than this article that sounds like an advertisement.

cooper themselves sure don't go out of their way to say anything meaningful about the differences between them.


anyone here have experience with either? looks like IOC has the evo MT on his TJ, any others?

Raluek fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Dec 22, 2022

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

I agree, you will be fine welding that either way as long as you crank the heat up and go for it. Pick your poison. Make sure you set your pinion angle correctly and get your axle centered - I like to measure backing plate flange to spring on both sides though there are likely even more accurate ways.

For pinion angle just put the axle on stands (not the frame) and remove wheels, loosen the ubolts a little, use your floor jack and a big pipe wrench to dial it in, lower the jack again, measure everything for the type of shaft you're running, continue adjusting as needed, then retorque the ubolts enough to get the springs flattened to where they'll be when fully torqued (this is important, I've seen it change pinion angle a bit before), verify your angle is still right, tack weld the perches and pull the ubolts and ubolt plates (jack the Jeep up by the frame before this point if it's spring under, otherwise removing the ubolts will injure you or the Jeep) and full weld it all. Spray bomb it and put it back together.

Sounds complicated but having done it a few times now this is the most efficient, accurate way I've come up with.

it has a double cardan rear shaft, and visually it looks like it's pointed straight at the pinion, but i do intend to measure it more accurately to confirm. good idea on the side-to-side measurement, i will give that a double check as well.

will refer back to this post when i get to the welding stage, thanks for the tips :tipshat:

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

I'd say aim it 0 to 0.75 degree below the driveshaft itself then. This depends on how stiff the springs are as well and also personal preference and driving style somewhat. I underestimated the stiffness of my new metric ton rated springs on my MJ and I get some substantial vibration over 70mph now because I gave it my usual 1-1.5 degrees, I'm used to super flexy off-road springs not heavy duty hauling ones.

E: depends on wheelbase too, the shorter it is the more pronounced your pinion rise will be under load holding all else constant. Leaf spring pinion angle setup is kind of a fuckshow to get right and I have never enjoyed it. I'm going to end up buying shims... Speaking of which if you end up buying shims, get steel ones not aluminum.

it's stopped raining for a couple days, so it's time to lay under the jeep again.


there wasn't really a great spot to measure the diff. i used the flattest part of the bottom, is there a better spot?
similarly, the shaft is so short i couldnt get the whole thing on the phone. i kind of eyeballed the gap so it was even on both sides. not ideal.

so, it looks like the pinion is 3 degrees down from the shaft. this built in level feature doesn't have decimals, so i suppose it could be less, but if i was aiming for 0-1 degrees that still seems excessive. am i on the right track by thinking that?


visually it looks ok, but that doesn't really mean much.


i thought it wasn't welded, but it... sorta? what the hell is this? it doesn't look connected at all, but there does seem to be bead. did someone cut it off and not finish grinding out the old weld? wtf


the front looks like it's fine though. i didn't check the angle because im not going to cut it off if it's wrong. trial by fire!

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

Oh boy, all of those welds look loving terrible strength wise but the first two are definitely worse.

My usual trick surfaces for pinion angle are:
- pinion yoke surface where the ujoint straps bolt on, if I don't have a driveshaft in my way yet
- diff cover mounting surface or a few bolt heads if they look reasonably even
- the area on each axle tube socket on the center casting right where the big round pocket is for each side of a differential case spreader. These are just to the left and right of the diff cover. The surface is machined flat along with the rest of the cover mounting surface, and to the best of my knowledge, it's perpendicular to the pinion axis on all factory Dana axles. On some fancy aftermarket stuff like rockjocks axles this will not work. Give it a scrape with a razor before putting your angle gauge on it and you'll probably see machining marks still, even on pretty rusty axles. In California you'll definitely get a good reading there.

oh yeah, those spreader pads were in great shape. a little paint on em, but seemed flat enough to just use as-is.


that, plus i used the small edge of my phone instead of the large edge on the driveshaft, so i could get it flat on the shaft, means i am more confident in that measurement too.

i got 24° and 27° this time, so still more than i want. ill see if i can get it down to 1° if the weather cooperates this weekend.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
new shoes! RWL club.


took the 1.75" spacers out of it to spare the wheel bearings. need to adjust the steering stops out a little so the tire doesn't try to eat the spring at full lock.

gotta put the carb back on tomorrow so i can move it into the driveway, and if i have enough time after it's done raining i'll try to get the rear pinion angle dialed in.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
well, didn't get it up on stands in the driveway until today. naturally, snafu: one of the U-bolts galled and stripped the threads. guess it'll be in the driveway until summit can deliver some new ones!



since both sides are damaged (had to cut off the right side, but left side came off ok) where it goes through the spring plate, im guessing it was run for a while with the nuts loose, and the plate rubbed the threads off. needs some bigger washers, too.

i got the angle dialed in right around 1° (it was measuring 4° when i got it level) and got this ugly-rear end tack weld on there to hold it until the new U-bolts get here.



spoilered because i am really not proud of how trash that weld looks. at least it matches the other work that has been done to this jeep before, lol

one question: the rear d44 has these little semicircular cutouts that look like there should be some sort of plate or cover or something in there. it's part of the cutout so you can get to the backing plate bolts through the axle flange, but unlike my truck (which also has a d44) it isn't fully covered by the wheel, oddly.



is there a little piece that's supposed to go there to keep the sand and water and other assorted offroad crud out of the brakes?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

cursedshitbox posted:

Truck shop it. Too easy to get the right thing at the right cost.

Also grind out your perch weld and redo it. This time, preheat the axle with a handheld torch. Turn your current all the way the gently caress up and spend more time on the axle side than the perch side.

called a couple truck shops here in san jose, and the unanimous response was that nobody local makes u-bolts. got a couple recommendations for a place out in sac that does it, but at that point ill just order from summit and get em sooner than i would be able to make a trip out there (which would take all day anyway).

good call on the preheating. the welder is all the way up, but it's just a tiny little 80A HF inverter guy so it can use all the thermal help it can get.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
im not using a flux core/MIG, it's an inverter stick welder. im using 6013 in electrode-negative, which should give a lil extra heat. if torch-preheating doesn't turn out better, i'll see if i can borrow my buddy's bigger MIG this weekend.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
i have a dumb question unrelated to the axle stuff above.

are york compressor clutches supposed to have a friction material? they seem like they ought to not be just metal on metal, and it looks like there's a groove where something should be, but when i search for york compressor clutch friction i can't find much of anything. searching for rebuild parts is also pretty fruitless. surprised not to find a bunch of tech articles from people building/rebuilding their oba setups.

anyway mine looks like this:



is that really all that is supposed to be there?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

I have zero experience with York ones in particular but I've never seen anything but metal on metal for AC clutches. Yeah, it seems weird to me too.

cursedshitbox posted:

All of the ones I've worked with have been plain metal. There's at least a half dozen different pulley/clutches for these though.

huh. well, thanks for the input, i guess i will just put a fresh bearing in here (pulley was pulled by the PO after the bearing seized) and run it.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
a few weeks ago i was under the jeep, happened to grab onto the rear driveshaft, and thought "hmm that feels like too much play." it's a double cardan, so i bought a rebuild kit that comes with all the joints and the ball and socket dealio that makes those work and everything.

this weekend i felt like going outside to wrench on the jeep, so i thought i would rebuild the driveshaft. i pulled it apart, and the ujoints look sorta ok

the bearings were still in good shape, plenty of grease, but the seals were getting lovely on some of them

the centering ball thing kind of looks like poo poo


and the body of the joint, uh

isn't there supposed to be a pin and spring there, or something?

maybe that's what all this stuff that fell out of the joint when i took it apart used to be


so, im pretty sure this shaft is going in the trash instead of being rebuilt. i doubt it's worth getting the end repaired, since it's all smashed up.

looking more closely at the output yoke of the TC, i noticed a couple shiny spots. top left first pic, bottom right second pic.

these seem an awful lot like witness marks from the joint trying to make up for too large of an angle. now granted, it could be that these appeared after breakage, when the joint wasn't aligned anymore. but since the CJ5 has a real short wheelbase, and it's got a fair amount of lift (spring over, 1.5" lift YJ springs, a bit extra in the shackles, comfortably fits 35s with plenty to spare) it could just be maxing out the joint. ill see how the clearance looks once i get a new shaft in there.

it seems likely ill be dropping the trans mount lower to try to lessen that angle a little bit, unless there are better solutions. i doubt i want to try to clearance anything on the yoke or joint; these are just 1310 joints after all.

anyway, i was under there to begin with because the first time i took the jeep out after getting it running and stopping, it ended up like this


the diff was making some bad noises, which turned out to be because of this


i thought at first maybe they weren't tightened so they backed out, but upon pulling one we discovered otherwise


looks like they've been rubbing for a while


anyway, i had to leave the jeep in impromptu storage for a month while we finished our trip and then went back with a trailer to rescue it. i had taped a cover over the open diff, in a hurry, but it didn't survive the elements. that led to the inside of the diff getting all loaded up with sand and crud that blew in there sometime over the month it was sitting out. this weekend i spent an hour or two scraping out the easy to reach stuff. it currently looks like this


i will need to clean it much more thoroughly before rebuilding. if it was just the empty housing, i would spray a bunch of purple power in there, hose it out, and blow it dry. but i dont want to get water in the pinion bearing, so i think i am going to have to stick to brake cleaner or mineral spirits.

i was originally going to post just to ask for advice on this, mainly whether this is a sane approach to cleaning out the diff. then i discovered how fuckered the driveshaft was, so that's now included for some bonus laffs.

i really want to avoid removing/reinstalling the pinion bearing, because getting the depth and preload set right are beyond my current comfort level. replacing the locker is just one set of shims, so i feel comfortable enough getting into that. i wonder how many cans of brakleen it will take to get all the mojave out.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

Wow that's loving rough. You can probably get that driveshaft rebuilt, all they'll need to do is cut the weld and press and weld a new CV head into it, then rebalance, but it's likely going to cost nearly what a new shaft will.

I hate to say it but you might need a new ring and pinion anyways given it was running with the carrier bolts loose. I hope not, but I won't be surprised if those gears are loud as hell if you run them again. Also, bear in mind you can definitely pull the pinion and put it back in, just make sure you save all the pinion preload shims when you pull it out, and use a new yoke seal and pinion nut going back together. Torque the new pinion nut to spec and the pinion depth should be back where it was. And that way you'll be able to actually hose that housing out properly.

they LOOK ok, at least the ring gear does. those bolts hold the two halves of the locker together, not ring to carrier, so the ring gear should have been accurately located the whole time. i commented that the screw heads looked like they had been rubbing a while, but it didn't make any noise until i tried to do a throttle-assisted u-turn in some loose gravel, i assume the locker locked as the tires lost traction, and then it started making the bad noises. it probably traveled like 100 feet like that before we pulled it apart.

the two halves of the locker case look kinda chewed up, and one of the spider gears has a freshly shorn tooth, but i don't see any evidence of pitting, gouging, or anything like that on the ring gear.

good point on the shims. as long as it has shims and not a crush sleeve thing, i should be able to take it out. i am just pretty gun-shy about diff stuff since i have never done one before. pinion nut is one-time use?

Cat Hatter posted:

Use kerosene, it's less likely to kill you.

ok, but whats the upside?

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

cursedshitbox posted:

A spark and jeep shopping.
Under torque and coast since those bolts are now out the carrier will not have the rigidity it once had. That'll wreck a gearset and bearings. Even if it didn't appear such, we do not know. This thing turns gear leveraged engine power ninety degrees.


With the double cardan bearing and all the locker shenanigans, throw a r&p and new bearings in there too. Sorry it all sucks but uh yeah. Doing it two or three times really sucks.

I understand being cheap or on a budget, unless you're really good at reading bearing or gear surface wear.... don't.

dammit, this is quickly spiraling from "slap it back together", which is where i want to be, to "learn an actual skill and do it the hard way" which is absolutely not. beats taking it to a shop, but every additional thing is going to add months to its recovery.

IOwnCalculus posted:

Enhance!



Is it just me or are those splines twisted on the driver's side axle?

ive been successfully ignoring that so far, thank you very much :mad:

e: while it does look like that in person as well, maybe it's just more shiny in the areas that were meshing with the spider gears. could just be an optical illusion? guess ill measure it when i pull it for cleaning

Raluek fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 8, 2023

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kastein posted:

That's definitely twisted but not really that bad. I've seen em last years like that.

Honestly at this point you are going to be doing everything about a gear job except for pinion depth anyways, since you likely need to replace that locker. That means resetting carrier side to side offset with carrier bearing shims. That looks to be a Dana pinion gear given the sequence number and/or recommended pinion depth setting hand etched into the head, so doing gears shouldn't be too bad. From what I've seen the recommendation is generally to start with the same pinion depth shim pack that came out and work from there, as there's more variation in the housing machining than the gear hobbing. If you don't wanna buy a few hundred in specialized bearing pullers, buy an extra inner pinion race and 2 extra carrier bearings of the same manufacturer and ideally lot as the ones you'll be using for final assembly and make setup bearings out of them by honing them out till they're slip fit instead of press fit. It's really not bad other than that, I'm sure you can do it. You'll want a mic for measuring shim thickness (vernier type, not slide caliper) and the usual assortment of torque wrenches plus a dial indicator. People recommend an inch pound torque wrench of the dial or flex beam type for measuring pinion bearing preload running torque but I've been happier with a fish scale, a piece of string, and a 8in wooden disc drilled for pinion yoke strap bolts, I read the scale while pulling slowly and evenly and then multiply by 4 to get inch pounds.

Harbor freight is fine for the dial indicator and mic. At least imo, and none of my setups have failed yet. I use their older "digital" (it used one of those old style odometer gear counters :lol:) mic but I'm sure their actual digital mic is just as good if you don't want to read a vernier, just remember to take the batteries out when you're not using it for more than a couple days.

The splines there are definitely more shiny where it's been touching but don't worry about that, that's very normal.

You could get away with slapping bolts in the locker but don't count on it. You may also get away with just replacing the locker, but don't be surprised if you don't or the gears are super noisy after.

oh yeah the locker is for sure being replaced. we pulled the original on the side of the road because we were originally thinking on those same lines -- what if we just get the broken bolts extracted, then throw new hardware in it, and hit the road? but the more we looked at it, the more damage to the locker (from the two halves sliding against each other, looks like) we found, then the final nail was the broken spider. plus they're left hand thread bolts, good luck finding those in barstow probably anywhere, honestly.

an ox locker finally showed up yesterday. this was an adventure unto itself. i did a bunch of research into what locker system i wanted, decided on ox, then placed an order like two months ago. i bought it through morris 4x4, they seemed pretty reputable, and had a bit of a discount. well, the locker went from in stock to back-ordered, then the backorder was extended, then they refunded my money. i sent an email asking wtf, then eventually found out that that distributor had just gone out of business. i guess i can choose 'em. so this time i bought straight from ox, which was fairly painless.

anyway, i have been somewhat reluctant to touch the pinion because that turns the setup into a 2D problem. if i left the pinion alone and just replaced the locker, i only have to deal with one dimension until the pattern looks good. i was going to measure the bearing-to-ring-seat distance on the old and new locker, adjust the shims as needed, send it, then measure the pattern. i figured i would give myself two chances (i.e. original attempt plus one redo) before sacrificing a set of bearings into a setup set. although now that i think about it, i could use the original ones off of the old locker for that, and not have to buy another set just to grind em out.

i have two main motivations for not wanting to change the gearset. the dumb one is that it feels bad to replace good parts if i dont have to, the old r&p look fine. the slightly more defensible one (but still probably dumb) is project scope creep. i would love to get this back together in time to get at least a little late summer wheeling in, and i am very intimidated by axle gears too. probably second only to automatic transmissions.

that said, i am not completely bull-headed. if i did re-use them, and that did end up causing a problem, is it likely to just be noisy and wear the gears quickly? or is it likely to lead to a breakage and wiping out a bunch of other parts? if it's a matter of potentially doing the job twice, that might not be so bad. if i have to scrap everything and start over with all new parts cause i tried to cut a corner, that's something else, and i am more willing to take my time on this to avoid that fate, if it's somewhat likely.

Evil SpongeBob posted:

Can a non mechanically inclined lurker who does nothing but oil changes ask a really dumb question? What's the cost to rebuild that mess yourself versus getting something new/rebuilt already? Is it scarcity of parts?

fyi, ive spent about $1500 on the locker parts and driveshaft rebuild parts so far. since the driveshaft might be a lost cause, ill probably spend another $200 on a used shaft which i may or may not rebuild depending on how it looks and feels. if i end up doing the gears too, thats another $500ish. there might be a couple hundred bucks of new tools involved, but that doesn't count. i figure, having a shop fix all this would be about another grand on top. like IOC said, if i was going to source another axle, it would be about $1k for the base axle because D44s are desirable, and then it wouldn't have the gears to match my front axle or the locker i want, so i would then have to spend the same money setting it up. but don't think i didn't consider it, lol. plus, probably whatever they came out of wouldn't have the right perches so there'd be some project happening there too. although if a set of waggy d44s came my way i wouldn't exactly complain, they're a few inches wider and i could ditch the front 30.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

Hah, I had a gut reaction of "that looks like barstow" when I scrolled by this pic and saw the traincars + Mojave sky. You have a place out there? My friends and I have often driven through there and made bold predictions/threats to buy real estate on the merits of it being the next Joshua Tree for LA hipsters.

King Bolt Co. in Covina is a bit of a drive from there, but keep it in your notes for future reference. It's a cool store.

nah, i'm out in the bay area. we were just out that way to run the mojave trail with some friends who hadn't done it before. i say that like ive done it more than once before this year, lol. technically not my first rodeo!

good call on the fastener place. if we were going to pause the trip an extra day or two to try to get it back together, that looks like an ideal resource. lol at their website though

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

Lol yes, that's how you know they're good. Strong Hank Hill vibes.

If you enjoy the Mojave trail and ever get out a bit further southeast, check out Camino del Diablo in AZ. Drove it last year and it was really cool.

yeah exactly. i don't trust companies whose websites are too good, their priorities are wrong.

nice, will add to the list. we've done mojave the last two years, so next year we're going to do somewhere else in the southwest deserts.

gotta fix my jeep first tho lol

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
welp. pulled the ring gear off the old locker bits for cleaning, and the carrier bearing just... fell off? isn't that supposed to be pressed on there?


maybe someone forgot to swap out their setup bearings for real ones. looks like the bearing spun on the carrier and trashed the shims.

i figured i might as well pull the pinion, since you're right ken i can just put it back in the same way it came out and im no worse off than i started. at least that was the plan when i started pulling it apart. im glad i did, cause there's chunks (of shim?) in this bearing too.


so at this point, the gears look fine, but theres so much else wrong that i basically can't trust anything was done right. while it looks like everything self destructed except the gears, i will be replacing everything else so might as well just do it all new.

whats the go-to gear mfg these days? ive heard that yukon has been enshittified in the past couple decades. the stuff that's in there now is dana/spicer, i think, and they made the axle in the first place.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
yeah the housing still looks good, as far as i can tell. looks like it has its stock machining on it. still covered in mojave, but it doesnt look or feel hosed up.



i do have new wheel bearings and stuff, so yeah good call on pulling the races out so there are no corners for shavings to hide. i am considering pulling the axle off the jeep completely, so i can flip it upside down and de-gunk that pocket between the inner and outer pinion bearing. i found a piece of spider gear in there yesterday, so it must have gone up and over via those vent slots.

guess im learning how to do all this the hard way! :shepface:

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
cleaned up the housing bearing caps today just to make sure they've survived. the machined surfaces look fine i think.

driver side (this is the side with the spun bearing)


those little marks don't catch a finger nail. as far as i can tell, they're just visual. looks like the factory machining to me, an idiot.


passenger side


passenger again


the one thing slightly hosed up with this one is that the locker bolts, after they broke off and backed out, were starting to machine the side of this cap a little bit. it's not deep, but it's slightly mushroomed over the edge.


i think i can fix this with a file so it's flat again while being careful not to change the "deck height" of this surface. tell me if im dreaming.


mainly just posting this as a sanity check, since i am about to order the next batch of parts this week.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
ah good idea, i have a diamond stone i use for sharpening that would work well for that. might take all day, but that's better than going hog wild with something too coarse.

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

McDeth posted:

So on a whim, I went and bought an IR camera and...yikes.

2013 Jeep JK


For comparison, my 2017 Ram EcoDiesel


Since I'm dumb and like spending extra cash, I'm dropping it off at a shop that specializes in electrical issues.

quoting to see the images

e: uhhh is that a junction block or something? yeah das no good

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Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.
your winch isn't one of those warn evo10 units with the wireless remote that was recalled a couple years ago, is it?

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