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fade5 posted:So Libya's having elections, how are those going? This poo poo is like real life Game of Thrones. Nice people can't last long.
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Jun 27, 2014 03:48
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illrepute posted:Also, and this isn't minor, the junta's treatment of the Muslim brotherhood has made places like the Sinai incredibly dangerous hotbeds for extremism. Pushing them back underground was a pretty boneheaded move, all told. I'm sure turning your conservative Islamist party- one with significant support- into an outlaw organization when you share a border with Saudi Arabia is a great idea that nobody will ever regret. I am sure Israel and the US are happy the narrative of anti-terrorist campaign has turn into a full fledged Sunni-Shia brawl.
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Jun 27, 2014 03:58
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The Iraqi border was drawn out of the British colonial masters asses anyway. I say let it split into 3 counties (or at lease 3 very loose confederates) and let them mind their own business. IMO Iran is the least of the evils in the Islamic world.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:00
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Just The Facts posted:For what gain? Oil? America has tons of gas and oil reserve. The reason Washington wants to keep buying oil from middle east because they need to do that to keep the USD as the oil currency/world currency. But we should see the end of it pretty soon, maybe in 20-30 years if China keep on the economic pace and keep buying energy with multi-currency deals. And then we will see the House of Sand burn in front of our eyes. Maybe Spec Ops, The Lines too. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 10:32
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Namarrgon posted:How is humanity as a whole not panicking over global warming, overfishing, ocean pollution or any of the other half dozen inevitable disasters? Human nature, willful ignorance etc. Well temperature raising slowly will gently caress over the countries around the Equator its not so bad for the colder countries. So the power that be (US, China, Russia) have not moved off their asses yet. Plus, these large countries have vast geographic diversity to brace the incoming climate change. But yeah the smaller countries are hosed. BTW there is only one rich country around Tropic of Cancer, Taiwan.
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Jul 12, 2014 12:40
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Nintendo Kid posted:And also because if we can drain other people's reserves first that's a better long-term outcome for us. Or, its a pan-Judeo Christian conspiracy. 
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Jul 12, 2014 18:35
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Jesus. These guys are scary effective. Are there any news media reporting this to get some kind of narrative as to what happened? I think they are just very good at using the new internet media. I am not buying half of the things they claim on the 'net.
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Jul 13, 2014 02:13
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cheesetriangles posted:I can't help but think of this whole affair in terms of Paradox games and the title doesn't help. Why would any nation send in the troops, its US's mess. The only realistic resolution is pay the Persians and the Kurds to keep the order. Kuwaitis and the Saudis can't fight for poo poo.
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Jul 14, 2014 04:38
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Torpor posted:That is actually a good plan, we should give them tons of M1A1s and consume all of that oil they are currently selling for profit. Do you really think US can make the Iraqis pay for any hardware/equipment in Iraq? No future Iraqi government of any kind will pay for any of that. US can only use the military toys to influence how will the Iraqis use their oil.
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Jul 14, 2014 16:08
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Do you guys see the similarity between Maliki and Chiang Kai-shek (in 47, 48)? I think poo poo will hit the fans and it will end very badly for him.
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Jul 14, 2014 16:18
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Peel posted:None of those are an impediment to normal relations. The United States had normal relations with the USSR, and it has normal relations with Egypt and Saudi Arabia. In the wake of the fall of the Berlin Wall the United States sometimes feels like it has forgotten that being its geopolitical opponent does not in itself make a state evil, illegitimate and insane. Ahmadinejad was a reaction to the US after Bush putting Iran in the evil list. Both the previous 2 presidents were more progressive. Iranians blamed Ahmadinejad for the radical foreign policy and fail economic but he was picked by the clerics. Iran really is the most progressive country in the Middle East with a working political system and a progressive society. I don't see much different between Iran's political system and the China's. Thanks to Bush getting rip of two of Iran's main foes Saddan and Taliban the US can't keep Iran down that much longer.
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Jul 26, 2014 02:16
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:What's the latest news on Iran's recent nuclear talks? Have the threat of ISIS and the improved relations with the US had much of an impact? The Persian Empire shall rise again, harder and stronger, under the reign of Eva Green.
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Jul 29, 2014 01:41
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The Iron Rose posted:Absolutely and entirely agree. I think Iran is slowing down the nuclear talk since they will get more bargaining chips from Putin right now. Plus Iran has alot of anti-imperial street cre need to protect. But normalizing is inevitable. Maybe Obama can get rip of the pivot to Asia talk and refocus to Middle East and Europe before he leaves office?
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Aug 13, 2014 05:21
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The-Mole posted:If you believe the results of Iranian elections, I have a bridge to sell you. Only the 2009 election was rigged. In all the other elections, the popular choices actually won the presidential election. Iran's system basically force the liberal candidates to quit the campaign if he is too popular.
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Aug 13, 2014 22:10
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Xandu posted:How's that going to work? Send a bunch of C-5s on round trips? I just don't see how taking the land route is more expensive than airlifting. American just want to do that Hollywood way.
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Aug 13, 2014 23:13
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Send in the Expendables, Rambo has been there before.
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Aug 13, 2014 23:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's a double-relevant discussion. The Mongols kinda wrecked the Middle East, and ISIS is being compared to them. That's pretty good for D&D. Thats not a fair statement. The Mongols only truly hosed the persia part of ME, killing 70% of population and so on. Right now Iran is the most normal part of ME, having undergone a revolution that brought decent representative to the government and much better distribution of wealth. IMO oil hosed ME. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 13:29
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Randarkman posted:I think you are misunderstanding me some here, I am not saying that the Mongols did not cause destruction where they conquered. It's just that a couple of the posts were all about how the Mongols were monsters who did nothing to advance humanity when in actuality the regimes they established in the conquered regions actually did quite a lot to patronize the culture of those regions, and rebuilt their economy and ensure that trade could be conducted safely. There is little merit to the claim that Iran was irrecoverably damaged by the Mongol invasions when they were up and running a pretty short whiel after that. IMO the Mongols conquests only accelerated the trade and technology/military exchange in the Eurasia zone. The Mongols themselves had very little added value to the civilizations they conquered. They practiced the local religions where ever they settled down and ruled as Khans, but truly they only worshiped their own power and Genghis Khan. This whole "Mongols are actually good for the advance of civilization" narrative only started in the last few decades, and personally I am not buying it. The only technologies needed for the next stage of civilization breakthrough was deep seafaring technologies. The European most likely will eventually gotten their hands on them anyway. Between Europe, ME and Chinese Ming Dynasty, Europe was sitting at a much better geographical position to discover American continents anyway. It didn't make any sense for the Ming emperors to send the Treasure Fleets eastward across the Pacific to the infinite unknown and beyond. Plus the Treasure Fleet diplomacy was a very costly operation, Ming dynasty soon had to diverted the money to build the defensive Ming Great Wall. Anyway, my point is, gently caress the Mongols.
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Aug 15, 2014 15:54
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Count Roland posted:I really wonder what is going on with the US regarding Saudi Arabia and Iran. Since last summer's gas attack in Syria and the lack of airstrikes, followed shortly after by a real opening in negotiations between Iran and the US (revealing they'd been talking in secret for some time), the Saudis have been pissed. Events in Iraq serve to drive the US and Iran closer together, to the further chagrin of the Saudis. Its time to let religious revolutionary fervor run over Saudi Arabia and over throw the middle ages family who name the country after them.
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Aug 20, 2014 22:47
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Openly threaten Putin like that? I am surprised Putin didn't umbrella-poison kill the Saudi guy on the spot.
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Aug 21, 2014 18:36
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IAMKOREA posted:Again: the brutal murder of a US journalist has caused many posters in this thread to call for stronger US military intervention. History has shown time and time again - from Bush's war in Iraq to the Vietnam war to the US war of aggression against Korea to the Invasion of Mexico that the US military is the greatest force of death, suffering, and misery. Period. The US military does not solve problems, it creates them. If American can't even send troops to the part of the world that has the worst war atrocity righ now, whats the point of spending godzillions of dollars on military budget. Obama's inactions in East Europe (sending 150 lol paratroopers on civilian bus to Poland amid Ukraine crisis) , Syria (Redline? What Redline. Assad gave up the chemical so its all cool) and South China Sea (you see our Japanese and Filipino friends won't be happy if we don't say "pivot to asia" and pretend we have a plan) theaters has shown him is a paper tiger. American's sidekick countries better embrace themselves for the next two years before a new US president take the office.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:32
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computer parts posted:The person you're talking to wants to return to isolationism. Isolationism is no longer an option if Ametica has moved beyond/no longer respect the Westphalian nation state principle and actively engage in regime change. Phlegmish posted:The person you're quoting is mad that Obama hasn't bombed enough people. Bombing people is only thing America good at externally anyway. Its not like america can help 3rd world countries build highways and railways like China do.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:33
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Ardennes posted:So what do you about the Sunni population there? Yeah, calling them all just a bunch of traitors seems like a pretty short-sighted conclusion. At this point, I think one can argue a federalized Iraq and "encouraged" migration to separate the Sunni and Shia will cause the lease amount of casualty. Think about it, If Iraq split up to 3 countries for real, the percentage of casualty could be close to the partition of India.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:03
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Negative Entropy posted:And if we consider partition of Iraq are we going to ignore the possibility of Kashmirs or Nagorno-Karabakhs popping up in the new borders? Nobody is going to eliminate IS in Syria. Hopefully IS is smart enough to change the name and cut down on the terrorist acts to make themselves easier to blend into the international community. On the subject of Iran. Iran is not going to pull up their sleeves and actually start doing their job until after the Nuclear talk is over. Obama should negotiate a sooner Nuclear talk deadline. Right now the new deadline is at the end of the year. The Persians are going to haggle like mad bazaar pedlars until the last minute.
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Aug 23, 2014 05:44
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I don't know why you people are so against partitioning. Its really important that the ethnic/sectarian majority has control of the state machine. Look at Islamic minority in India and Shia minority in Pakistan. When the majority has strong and commanding control, they have the confidence to give the minorities more space and freedom. Minority ruling over majority in a modern country is time bomb waiting to explode. I will give you three classic examples, Rwanda, Syria, Iraq. The only country I can think off that went through non violent transition is South Africa.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:01
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Count Roland posted:I don't know if India is the best example for why partitioning is a good thing. Millions died during the initial partition, thousands more in later wars and as Pakistan further broke up. India and Pakistan are regularly on the brink of war and are pointing nuclear weapons at some of the most populated places on the planet. Pakistan and Bangaldesh would have splitted eventually anyway. Geographically it made no sense. I argue the outcome of the India partition (no counting the civilian on civilian atrocity during the break up) is still the best outcome could have achieved in Iraq. First of all, where do you see Sunni and Shia living peacefully together in any Middle East country anyway? Its not going to happen. Once you split the country you can lower the civilian death. Money can be dispatched for the relocation cost. When India and Pakistan went to wars (with refub US weapons on both sides btw), they were soldiers killing soldiers. I don't have a problem with that. Once the state machines monopolize the use of violent, you can try to stop the war between two countries through international levers. Currently UN or the international community has pretty much no effective way to stop civil war. Thats how Putin cheat in his surrounding countries.
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Aug 23, 2014 17:13
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kustomkarkommando posted:This is an argument for popular rule though, not partition. The situation in Iraq is that the Kurds have had effective independence for too long. They will have if not their own country, at lease a highly autonomous region. Whatever you give to the kurds, you have to also give it to the Sunni. This is something I blame the US. You can not break the Westphalian system and start toppling regimes without presenting a plan most people in country are satisfy with. If in the future North Korea start crumbling down, South Korea and China have to be the players who take the initiative to rebuild the country, not the US.
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Aug 23, 2014 17:27
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computer parts posted:Relations are warming with Iran as well. But American didn't have to do anything to have a good relationship with Iran anyway. Iran was offering alot of help before the country was branded as "evil". If Iran had a semi decent relationship with tge US, that monkey looking Revolutionary Guard probably wouldn't be elected as president to begin with! *head hits wall* On the ground that we haven't had as many great movie out of the Iraq Wars as Vietnam, I declare it a worse war than Nam.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:22
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Torpor posted:I am still waiting for Three Kings 2 Three Kings 2 starring Jennifer Lawrence, Bradley Cooper and Robert Deniro. *scene of water boarding* "What's wrong with Kim Kardashian?!"
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Aug 25, 2014 17:53
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namesake posted:Diplomacy and a foreign policy not based around neo-colonialism, flat out imperialism or economic domination. There is no solution. The only solutions that can bring peace to ME involve: 1) withdraw all military bases from ME 2) stop forcing ME countries use USD as standard currency for oil 3) Make Israel follow UN resolutions I think every single poster in this thread will agree with me that the US will never do any of these in a million years. So just accept that the US is neo-crusader at heart and is here to stay to create turmoil.
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Aug 31, 2014 03:53
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Volkerball posted:When we withdraw the bases, do we just sell them to Qatar, KSA, and Russia, or make them build their own?
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Aug 31, 2014 04:02
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My Imaginary GF posted:Which withdrawal or troop draw down are you referring to? U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay. They want tge US back now due to China lol. Mans posted:So we leave Egypt and the Arabian extremist dictatorships untouched and hope for the best? That turned out well for the Persians so why not. This is what the Middle East want. Although in the case of Egypt it will never get rip of stronge foreign intervention thanks to the canal. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 11:07
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suboptimal posted:Egypt will also never get rid of "foreign intervention" because they're ruled by kleptocrat generals who will take money from anyone. The amount of money that KSA, UAE etc has poured into Egypt over the past 14 months dwarfs what the US has done in recent years. Some body is going to bring money and weapon to the fraction of army that is willing to kill. I don't even blame the west that much in Egypt's case. Canals are like diamonds and oil, it will bring turmoil to a small country. Egypt isn't even that small and it can't handle the canal. quote:Explain to me how any of this has any influence or even relevance to what's going on in Syria or Iraq right now. Iraq is easy. The current state of Iraq is the direct result of US intervention, which is an extreme form of US military base. As for future prospect. Why doesn't the US let the Kurds declare independence? because Turkey wouldn't like it. Why do Americans care about Turkey's feeling so much? because the US need Turkey on their side to ensure the USD/oil world order. As for Syria. You just have to let them fight it out. I don't have a better solution. If the US no longer act as the regional police, nobody will hold Saudi back. Saudi and Iran will skip the client war part and send in their troops to fight it for real. Its going to be like the India-Pakistan wars or the Iran-Iraq war. You just have to let them fight it until their ammunition and resources are exhausted. Hopefully Syria border will be redrawn according to ethnic and sectarian lines. Saudi probably will have a (religious) revolution break out under stress. Saudi badly need a modern social structure to redistribute their wealth, and a new name. It's better for the long term prospect of the region. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 16:44
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computer parts posted:Turkey doesn't care about an Iraqi Kurdistan as long as it is formed only of Iraqi territory. The US wants a unified Iraq because otherwise the nation building rhetoric fails. The middle east countries don't care about Israel, they just care about the US overtly protecting and siding on Israel's side. Its basically a honor/respect issue. I didn't say that Israel is vital to ME's peace anyway.
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Aug 31, 2014 17:27
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suboptimal posted:What do you mean by "can't handle the canal?" I really don't think the canal has driven instability in Egypt in any way whatsoever. In fact, I think it's one of the least controversial aspects of Egypt's foreign policy. On the contrary. I think the canal is the original source of Egypt's misery. Look at the disproportional amount of aid fund US give to Egypt every year. All this money flowing to Egypt not because the US is Mr. Nice Guy. Its there to ensure the US has strategic control of the canal and make Egypt rely on the US. The money in term has discouraged timely social and political reform thats beneficial to the population of Egypt. Plus the US knows money has little control over radicalized Sunni government (ala Pakinstan), so there was alot of outside force to support the military coup. The current state of Egypt is a quite similar to Shah's Iran when you think about it. quote:I agree that the US bears responsibility for the destabilization of Iraq vis-a-vis the invasion and its mismanagement of the insurgency from 2003-2006, but honestly, the revival of IS is more of the Iraqi government under al-Maliki's fault. The US had more or less defeated IS by the time of the pull-out, but Maliki's sectarian policies helped reinvigorate them. quote:I think you're missing quite a few links in the chain of escalation here. I can't see a scenario in how Saudi Arabia or Iran would directly and overtly intervene with conventional forces in Syria. A hot war to decide the supremacy of ME between Saudi and Iran is over due. I think Saudi is one of the most oppressive government in ME. poo poo will hit the fans if no US naval fleet stay there to keep the fire down. I am not just talking about the Shia minority. I was checking out a Saudi chick novel today. The female author couldn't get her chick novel published inside saudi arabia and she couldn't live up to her dream as an author despite the novels popularity. She had to go back to her train profession of being a physician. The whole country is oppressive as gently caress with no place for release. Thats why Saudi export so many extremist fighters.
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Aug 31, 2014 18:22
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Iran should get their unannounced bomb. Israel has one.
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Apr 3, 2015 02:10
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Kaal posted:D&D's recipe for peace in the Middle East: Nukes for everyone. Final Solution to Mad Max-pocalypse
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Apr 3, 2015 02:43
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karl fungus posted:Pakistan has nukes, but aren't they unstable as hell? Having a nuke is kind of a stability factor. Whenever the Pakistan military government come to the verge of falling either US or China will throw money at them until another strong man show up and take control.
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Apr 3, 2015 05:21
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Kaal posted:It's a stability factor, but in the same way that having a drunk at the wheel of a car will ensure all the passengers will be extremely aware of the road conditions. It doesn't guarantee that they'll be able to grab the wheel in time. And when other nations consider you a potentially nuclear-armed actor, they are all going to naturally amplify the magnitude of their responses. This might mean adopting a cautious attitude and sending over money, or it might mean massive air strikes and an invasion force to prohibit a rogue group from gaining control of the weapons. The range of potential scenarios introduced by nuclear weapons is perhaps the most destabilizing aspect of the weapons. Didn't Pakistan and India stop going to hot war after both of them processed nuclear bomb? I say nuclear bomb is a tested stability factor both in global theater and regional theater.
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Apr 3, 2015 05:54
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Schizotek posted:Oh the agreement is fine. The bizarre political kabuki that led to it being necessary, and still gets discussed by people who know its pointless theater in this thread, makes me think humanity is probably doomed. Just tell your mum the Persians are the good Muslins.
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Apr 3, 2015 15:43
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