Ask me about Bartending - The Revenge - The Something Awful Forums

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Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

James Woods posted:

Two minutes into the interview and I begin to ask myself if I'm still drunk from the night before. I understand all the words that are coming out of the manager's mouth, there just exists a certain disjointedness about each sentence. A thought will begin and all of a sudden he changes the subject and goes off on some wild rear end tangent I can't follow. I try now to move to much. Not to cross and re-cross my legs, not to touch my face too much, to keep eye contact. Any of these things could give me away at any moment for the fraud I am. I'm so insecure about my behavior until I realize why this interview is so awkward. His shaking hands. His inability to focus on one thing. The reason he keeps taking off his Giants cap and runing hin hands through his grey thinning hair. He's the one who's drunk. I've got this.

This time two years ago I was sitting on the other side of the table. I was managing an up and coming bar in a trendy neighborhood in San Francisco. Each week I had a dozen bartenders (or would be bartenders) trying to suck my dick for a shift. In a down economy help is cheap. Good help is harder to find. The manager tells me that their Craigslist ad got over a hundred resumes and that mine is one of twenty interviews they're doing today. The bar is a massive spot attached to a music venue in a quaint little tourist town in Northern California. It has been under the same ownership and operation fo over forty years and has been operating as a saloon in this location for over a hundred. The manager tells me that the last time they hired a bartender was sixteen years ago.

* * *

Rob was a piece of work to say the least. Each day I rolled into my bar at 10am and five out of six of those days he was the first one in to order a gin martini and regail me with his bullshit. Rob was a drunk in the most literal sense. A true W.C. Fields, Kid Shelleen, type of drunk that made Nob Hill a more colorful place to live. If his retoric was to be believed, he'd once rubbed elbows with Andy Warhol, fought off a bear in Alaska, and at one point lost millions investing in Chineese currency. He also had a bad habit of drinking himself retarded and throwing up all over himself shortly before being 86'ed.

Rob was a headache, a nuissance, a pain in the rear end, and an endless source of ammusement in an otherwise hairpullingly stressful job. Running a bar is a lot like being the Captain of a ship. I can say this with authority because I was never in the military and haven't been able to tie a bowline hitch since I was in the Scouts. It's all about being able to manage chaos. Waitresses playing sexual mind games with your male staff, chefs refusing to work unless you subscind to some rediculous demand, liquor distributors trying at every opportunity to steal from you, ABC and the health department hounding you constantly, this is just a Tuesday.

One thing I have to hand to Rob is that he has style. For a guy in his mid fifties he dresses better and attracts the attention of more women than most of the twenty something date rapists that haunt my bar. He is capable of wearing Wayfarers and corduroy in a way that is neither ironic or trendy. This guy has been consistently hip for the last half century and at the same time has managed to accomplish nothing with his life. He is the one and only customer I have cut off, 86'ed, and banned for life on several occasions that I still welcome into my establishment. Why?

* * *

It isn't until several weeks later that I get that call from an unfamiliar area code. "Hello is this Dave?" the voice on the other end of the line says. Over a decade of dodging skip tracers and bill collectors has made me a combination of cautious and paranoid so I reply with the same thing I always do to an unfamiliar number. "May I ask who's speaking?" The man on the other end identifies himself as the manager of the bar I'd interviewed with ands since dismissed some weeks earlier. He says that he wants me to come back in for another interview. Dammnit.

You see, this is both a blessing and a curse. Two years ago I left the bar industry with the crazy idea that I could go back to college and reinvent myself. At this point I'd just completed a two year degree in automotive technology and was dead set on starting my own buisness building of all stupid things electric cars. I had abandoned the industry that had not only fed me for a decade and a half, but one in which I had slowly crawled my way to the apex only to cast it away. I had built my identity on this character, this super cool bartender man who in reality only existed in the hours that I was on the other side of the wood. I wanted to work with my hands. Do an honest mans living. Something other than being the filling station for peoples mistakes.

I show up for the second interview early in the morning and immediuately I can tell that the manager hasn't slept from the night before. He gives me a big rear end speach about how hard the hireing process was and regails a couple of stories about his experiences at the local casino the night before when he offers me the job. Again I feel drunk despite the fact that I haven't touched the sauce in weeks. We shake on it and he says my first shift is next week. Here we go again.

* * *

One late night at my bar in Nob Hill I'm doing the books in my office at 3am over a bottle of Jameson when I notice something strange. The owner of the bar, an unscrupluous Russian man who IU've had tentative relations with for the extent of my tenure, has been busting my rear end to cut costs despite the fact tht I've doubled profits in the year I've been managing the bar. While auditing the payroll I notice that we haven't been paying any overtime pay to any of our "undocumented" employees. This represents about 75% of our workforce over four restaurants.

I write an e-mail to our HR rep and send copies of the timesheets relizing that we are perhaps liable for tens of thousands of dollars in dammages. The next day i get a call early in the morning from HR telling me that I'm not allowed to go into my bar and that I've been transfereed to a taqueria two towns south that the owner also controlls. At this point I sick my Jew Lawyer wife on the boss and severence negotiations begin. They offer me a half year's salary to keep my mouth shut. The wife tells me it's a good deal.

So I get a big dirty pile of cash and at least two years of unemployment to do whatever the gently caress so I do. Two weeks later me and the wife are heading to dinner and decide to grab a cab on our way to the Marina. Shortly after piling into the back seat of a musty smelling Caprice, the bald thirtysomething cabbie looks back at me and says, "You're Dave right?". Normally I would have retorted with a tough guy phrase such as "who's asking" but I immediately regognized huim as Ken, on of Rob's old friends who had carried him out of my bar in several stages of drunkenness before.

I hate to have to break it to you man but Rob's dead." He says. He explains that Rob had drunk himself to death a week earlier and that his funeral was attended by a half dozen people, most of which his drinking buddies who happened to hear the news. We ducked out of the vab and I remember saying to myself, "that's it" "I'm done". Yet here I am.

* * *

I reach across the table to shake his hand and accept the manager's offer. The worst part of yourself is the part you can't escape. For better or worse, I'm good at this.

Welcome (back) to the Hotel California.

Having also done the "once a bar manager, now a lowly barman" thing, it's loving awesome. No responsibilities.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2012 15:13

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:33

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Hoops posted:

Yes, yes, oh my god, yes. I say some variation of this every single shift. I trust my bar staff, I don't trust my wait staff (with certain exceptions) to tie their loving show laces.

For some reason when someone is hired and turns out to be useless, they tend to be thrown onto the floor if a girl, and barback if a man. Unfortunately though floor is a step up from barback, so it's more obvious how useless they are. In my place there's a real feeling that the floor staff should all have turns doing the "easier" and "harder" jobs, handling a section or just floating or food running. While on the bar, the stars are always kept on the bar while the worst people barback, with the middle being on the bar but sent off to do errands if the barbacks are otherwise engaged, or doing dispense tickets, or whatever. This makes sense, and makes sure your best barmen are always customer facing. Yet on the floor I managed an extremely rare 100% report from a mystery diner, only to be food running on my next shift while someone who shouldn't really have been hired struggled to look after a section.

So I guess what I'm saying is that bar staff had a gentle gradation into the role, with a clear hierarchy making sure no-one is out of their depth. My place (and I guess some others too) don't take the same approach with the floor, instead trying to be "fair". This means you end up with serving staff out of their depths while others are wasted on an easy job.

Admittedly, when a good manager is doing the rota, I know I'm having a section unless I'm in a really bad mood for some reason and ask for an easy ride. It's when the bad managers choose who's where that it's a dice roll. But on the bar they can all just shift into their natural hierarchy whatever they are initially told, as they are all simply "bar" or "barback" with the gradated levels of barman being more naturally occurring systems, while on the floor if I'm told "Food runner" and someone else is told "Section 2" there's no way to make sure I'm handling the hard parts of the job while they have the easy parts. Because waste of talent or not, that food still needs to be run.

For my place in the list, I guess I'm:

Masonity - Waiter and occasional / former barman, Gastropub.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2012 03:50

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

navyjack posted:

Ok, and before Crawl for Cancer hits me in....7 hours. What should customers NOT do?

1) Don't do poo poo in my bar sober you wouldn't do in a McDonalds poo poo-faced?

2) Order a bottle of wine at "Last orders!" unless there are enough of them that they will finish it within 15 minutes.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2012 13:03

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Daric posted:

I'm off tomorrow so I'm going to try to collect all these bartenders in the thread and send the list to James Woods

And yeah, it was fairly slow today but almost every single person tipped me 20%

Except the people that come in right before we close. They sit there forever and never tip anything.

Collect us? And then what are you planning to do to us? :cry:

edit:
Dear Mr. Woods,

As you may know, I have collected your precious barmen. They are safe, for now...

Here is a list of my demands.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2012 08:51

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

I'm quite embarrassed. After 8 months at my current place I had my first tantrum. I could have avoided it if after the trigger I hadn't been asked by a manager "what's up, hot and tired with the weather?"

At that point I kinda had to tell him what was up, and now I think my new gm thinks I hate her and the managers seem to be on egg shells. I need to apologise somewhat on Monday. That said, I got my Friday night bar shift for the first time in ages and a promise that in future I can have more if I want. Which is only right, because the deputy gm knew me for a month as a bartender elsewhere before I had even tried being on the floor and thought I'd chose to make the shift. He even tried to poach me as a permanent employee when I was there even though id been hired to cover for him then open a new place. He then joined me here later.

The trigger was I spent the lunch shift as "collecting glasses" on the briefing sheet. I managed to get a small outside area that's usually no service as a concession as long as I took care of glasses too, but that was it.

Evening shift I spot on the rota that I'm again glasses. This annoys me, but then it goes from annoying to making me want to walk out. I would t have, I would have done it then complained formally on Monday, but I felt like it up until I was asked "just hot and bothered?"

I was told I was barbacking.

I've made it clear now, I'll do that once a month. On a quiet shift. But I've missed two promotions already because I'm floor not bar, and I'm floor not bar because I'm "needed more on the floor" because it's our weak area.

When we started I had done no floor before. I was our strongest barman. But also our 2nd or 3rd strongest floor person. And miles ahead of those behind me even after 2 weeks training. Now ive won a bonus and a pub-wide staff party with a 100% mystery diner, something given to around 4% of businesses checked.

But what have I done since? Kitchen porter for the day due to short staff there. Because I wouldn't moan at doing the job. Food runner multiple times because half the staff are too scared of the head chef to communicate with him and run the pass. Floater. Glass collector. Quietest section multiple times.

So I had a moan and got moved on the bar. Where id bet I had the most revenue per hour.

And I've now made it clear that I was told I was on the floor because I was needed there, and if that's not true theyve wasted 8 months of my life doing a job that wasn't what I was hired to do, missing promotions throughout because of the switch I was pushed into to better round out the team.

But the deputy gm told me on the way home that the gm was upset that she might have misused me. This is her first week and im still head offices golden boy for my result. But I like her and think she's going to be a good manager. I'm more annoyed at the managers we've had since day 1 who have happily used me wherever there's a gap despite me being one of their biggest assets because they didnt think id moan.

So yeah. Bit of a rant but we all need one after a stressful Friday. And I don't know if I should be embarrassed and apologise on Monday or go in bullish and shamelessly and try to force my position.

One thing I know though is that if I'm on the pass or collecting glasses, I'll be asking for a meeting with the gm and deputy gm where I might be cornered by my own pride now this is out of the bag into making ultimatums I don't want to keep.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2012 02:18

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Sheep-Goats posted:

If they don't put you where you want to be after six months they're absolutely not going to. They've decided actively not to promote you for some reason or another (looks? being male?).

If you have some money saved up at the meeting I would ask "What am I going to be doing differently here in the next month that shows I'm going to move to the bar?" If they say "oh we need you on the floor" explain that you appreciate it can be hard to run a place, but they need to find someone else to do that, you want to be at the bar now.

You've more than paid your dues. Don't be surprised if they just let you go when you tell them this. If you don't have the money saved to take a risk like that it's time to just look for another job and quit when you find it. This is the most likely outcome in my mind, as they've done everything short of hanging a neon sign up in there that says "you're not going to bartend here."

To be perfectly clear, I think you're really misreading the situation. They don't value you or consider you an asset. They see you as someone who is good for low level fill in poo poo work. The words they use are just to keep you around.

Words are free.

The official line is that it was due to poor communication. I'm going to see how the next few weeks pan out before making any decisions. And if I'm not convinced they aren't taking me for a ride I'll look for a transfer to the pub I was at before.

We have a new gm who started this week anyway, so as long as shes willing to use me properly it's fine.

I'm in the uk so wages are the main factor and I'm paid above minimum already even if doing crap work, so it's more the principle than wanting those bar shifts for the money. If I'm on the floor with a big party on a busy night I'm happy. Or have a section in the day. I actually prefer the floor when we're quieter and the bar when in the reeds.

I was asked if I'd be happy doing one shift a month at most doing crap work and I said sure. I think I was just the hard worker who didn't complain so easiest to give the crap work to even though I should be #1.

As for the promotion, the person on the floor that was half promoted before me was better at the time. And the difference between me and the new supervisor was literally that he was poo poo on the floor so after a few weeks got all bar shifts while i was given more and more floor until it was all floor. Then a bar manager left leaving us with 3 floor based managers and 2 bar based managers, so I can believe its literally because he's bar and I'm floor that I missed out. I was (and will be if it's not fixed) just annoyed that I'm floor because I'm their best floor person, but I wasn't being used effectively.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2012 08:21

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

OmNom posted:

Through a connection I nailed a job as a fine dining server, the rub is that at the interview they asked "Do you have tending experience, sometimes servers need to tend when the place is busy, or our tender calls out." Seeing that I need this job I did as any job hunter would do and just say yes, with some caveat about mainly backing. I've done neither.

After a few behind the bar shifts I am getting into the rhythm but I want to be a better tender. We do mainly wines, some beers, and a full selection of cocktails. Since we are mainly a dining establishment with a bar, I have the slight luxury of time, though when tending I need to manage tables too.

How can I speed up my ability to make more drinks at once? I will be handling the server's wine and beers orders, my own, plus walk-ins. It's enjoyable, but I just want to do better?

Honestly you should either not have a section or only be doing your own drinks. You can't look after a section and walk in drinkers and other peoples drinks. It's just not feasible.

Why isn't everyone making their own drinks when you are tenderless? Or why aren't they just making you dedicated bar tender for the shift?

# ¿ Sep 10, 2012 20:11

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

OmNom posted:

I wouldn't say we are poorly managed, just running really lean. Our services correlate with show times, so we can sometimes serve 50-70 covers in a 3-4 hours shift. Then tender handles the bar walk-ins and any other non reservation customers. If we can't hang other servers can pick up the table.

As for making their own drinks, on really busy shift they can pour their own wine and beers, but most have even less bar experience than myself.

Feasible or not it's just how the place is run. I'm glad for the job, my trusty note pad keeps me organized, and luckily those at the bar order mostly food and a drink or two max. Plus we have runner/bussers who are loving military like in their duties and make sure customers are good on h20 and bread, and tend to be our second set of eyes.

How many staff do you have to serve those 50-70 covers?

With a dedicated barman doing dispense and 4 floor staff (3 waiters and a food runner) plus a manager or two seating people and maybe helping to run food we do around 80 tables at lunch. Plus another 30 or so upstairs with 2 floor staff who do their own tending. Even assuming we don't flip any tables (food led pub so we can't just kick them out for the next diners), and this is all between 12-1.30 really. We'll then usually serve another 40 or so people between 1.30-3ish.

If the bar area itself is busy, we can feasibly have to do all our own drinks too as the bartenders are all too busy to do dispense (which is a bad management issue) and we get by fine.

Admittedly I just described a busy shift, not todays lunch where we only had around 40-50 people downstairs maximum, with 30-40 of them between 12-1.30. And we'll occasionally have a floater or two helping out. Although at other times we'll have the 3 waiters and also have 20-30 covers sitting outside too to somehow deal with.

So if you have more than 1 busser, and more than 1 other server, you have enough physical staff to get the job done in a far more efficient manner. It's not hard to learn to pour a beer or a wine. They have to know their beers and wines to sell them anyway right? Or alternatively, have you just deal with the bar on those days, and have the other servers cover all the tables? Hell, even have them bus their own tables somewhat too to lessen the bussers load and have a busser learn to wait tables on the days when you have to step onto the bar.

I honestly can't see a single scenario where it makes sense to have one person doing all the dispense for everyone and bar tending walk ins and having their own section on top of that. Their section will be neglected massively.

50-70 covers isn't a huge amount

edit:

JawKnee posted:

I've been a bartender and server at almost every job I've worked, and while it's not the norm, I've occasionally had to take a section while I'm on bar.

Yeah. Emergencies happen and we have to take on more than we should at times. It sounds more like it's a thing for him rather than "Oh poo poo six people are sick today!"

# ¿ Sep 10, 2012 20:57

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Quote is not Edit.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2012 20:59

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

OmNom posted:

Cover doesn't equal tables, I'm a tired. On a busy night it looks like this: Open 5pm, seat until 6:45 pm, kick them out the door for the show by 7:20. We feed 150 plus people in that window an entire 3-4 course meal with wine pairings, or if lucky just a few entr�es. It can be a mad scramble hustle, and we'll have 2 bussers, a barman, and 3-5 servers.

On the flip side for a crappy show we'll just be dead.

I meant people, not tables, when talking about 110 during the "heavy" lunch period. So I guess we're dealing with slightly less people with a comparable number of staff than you are, and in a similar time frame as we have to kick people back to their offices by 1.30-2pm.

Honestly, if it works for you guys, fair enough. But regularly bar tending and doing dispense and running a section just makes me think people in your section will have bad service, or people at the bar will have bad service. It just makes sense to not have someone waiting on a table while doing another full time job at the same time. If there is a queue at the bar and a table in your section who want to order desert, what happens? Who gets the bad service?

Of course, as a worker all you can do is moan and bitch about it, then suck it up and do the best you can in the circumstances. I just think it'd run a lot smoother if you always had a dedicated bartender. It also makes sense to have all servers comfortable enough with pouring a beer or wine to grab their own if they ever need to.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2012 22:37

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Halloween Jack posted:

What kind of people drink Jager at bars, by the way? I mean, besides the obvious thing about how they have no taste.

People who work there.

Whenever we're having a really busy night (under the old manager, still to be seen if the new one follows suit) the managers would crack out a round of Jagerbombs for the staff for every landmark we'd hit.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2012 16:06

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

OmNom posted:

Good news everyone! Our new dining room manager has a vision and some loving teeth. She persuaded our GM to bring in 2 dedicated bartenders and allocate more labor hours to make sure we aren't consistently short staffed. No more doing everyone's drinks and running a section! I can do one or the other!

Hooray for good leadership!

Nice one. Now you can either enjoy being a barman or a waiter on any given night.

Being the flexible guy should help you get the shifts too which is nice.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2012 00:57

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

leica posted:

I've had people insist we give them draft prices for can beers when we (temporarily) run out of draft. Or try to negotiate prices. Am I wearing a tie? This isn't a used car lot last time I checked.

I've had similar...

"Well, seeing as you are out of the house wine, you'll sell me [recommended, next cheapest wine] at house wine prices instead right?"

Nope.

"But that's not fair. You shouldn't run out."

# ¿ Oct 9, 2012 07:32

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

James Woods posted:

With the exception of clubs it's almost always young guys doing this poo poo. It's either them trying to look like a big shot ordering top shelf and drowning it with juice and sugar or they're ordering a drink for a girl who normally drinks well but orders top shelf vodka with cranberry when guys are buying them drinks. Nearly all the 30+ regulars at my bar tend to order well for drinks (excluding Martinis and Neats) and call for shots because they'll be parked at the wood for seven hours each evening after work and are already spending $500 a week in here. Hell even the manager who doesn't pay for drinks orders PBRs and shots of Cuervo for himself.

I think well drinks or shelf drinks even for something where you won't taste much of it depends on what's in the well. If your well drinks are typical off brand rubbish they might give a worse hangover than the very slightly more expensive upgrade. I'll always upgrade a house vodka up to at least Absolut or Smirnoff whatever I'm drowning it in because it won't cost much more but will make tomorrow more pleasant.

Thankfully in my current place Absolut, Beefeaters, Havana 3 and Famous Grouse are our well shots. Even then I prefer to upgrade a G&T to the more expensive local craft Gin we sell when I'm paying.

Of course, because we're in the financial district I always try the upsell to that brands gin or vodka whatever it's with. It does taste better in drinks where you taste the spirit, and they can afford it.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2012 12:08

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Sheep-Goats posted:

A bar where the people happily drink well is a real bar. A bar where the staff drinks well when they're of hours in the place drinking nearly for free is a good place to work.

Julia Child preferred Beefeater. Don't get fussy. Drink to be drunk.

With that said, in NYC a lot of places have pricing that goes something like "Crystal Palace gin 13, Hendrick's 15" so what's the point of getting well.

Oh I have nothing against Beefeater... If we're out of one specific Gin I love (Sipsmith) I'll happily drink it all night long. I just honestly don't think you can beat a properly made G&T with Sipsmith gin. The same thing with Beefeater is about 90% there, but for the extra 40p (without discount)...

# ¿ Oct 13, 2012 19:48

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

nrr posted:

gently caress that wheres my tartar mojito

Erm, it's for Jagerfishbombs...

You stir a teaspoon of tartar in tot he redbull before bombing the jager in. Delicious!

# ¿ Oct 15, 2012 08:31

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

nrr posted:

^ ^ ^ I remember making a post about credit cards on single drinks in the old thread that got shot down by a lot of people, and that was on a $40-$50 minimum. What the gently caress are you doing with a $10 min on credit cards? Do yourself a favor and raise that poo poo to $50 immediately. Point people to the nearest ATM if you have to, and if you work in a busy bar without an ATM then either convince you owners to invest in one, or save up with your other bartenders and buy one yourselves because not only do the things dispense money but they loving print it in high volume bars as well.

* this does of course entirely depend on how painfully archaic your credit card/till system is. My current job it's easier to run a card than it is to make change, it all depends on your system, but if it's tough to run a card, then make it a serious deterrent to do so and train your customers into the way that works best for you because that will result in th getting drinks faster in the long run

We don't have a minimum, which results in people using cards for a £1.90 half pint.

Thankfully it's not particularly slow unless its a busy night with 6-7 tenders and only 3-4 card machines.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2012 15:45

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

rikatix posted:

True. Like I said I wasn't too bummed out about it. That being said I started out their evening same as I do every guest, with a friendly greet and smiles all around. They just happened to be a special kind of awful.

It's clear you have a great product range. Do you have the product knowledge (edit: And confidence) to go along with it?

People asking for a glass of red, a glass of white and a beer would be a) almost certainly mystery shoppers, and b) the ideal customers. It'd give me a chance to recommend a beer, red wine and white wine. Even here in the tipless badlands of the UK those customers sound like they would have been greasing my palm by the end of the night.

"Sure guys. What sort of red do you like, something powerful or more subtle? Oh great, we have a really nice ____, want a large glass? Should I get you a dry white or something more rounded like a chardonnay? Oh great. It's a bit unusual, but we have a ____ that's really nice, I think you'd like it. Also large? What sort of beer are you after, a lager or an ale? A lager? my favorite is the _____."

Sounds like it would have been quicker than "Yeah, but what wine? Come on guys, tell me a red name and a white name? Beer? We do lots of beer. Look. Ask me for one in specific... No listen to me you swine, order a beer by name or you get nothing. Nothing, I tell you!"

Merlot and Pinot Gricio sounds like they went with the first names they could think of when pressured with the wine. Ditto Heineken with the beer once you refused to "choose for them".

You are a bartender or a waiter. Your job is to know your beers and wines better than the customer, and guide them towards the right choices. You should be shifting "A glass of house red" into "okay I'll have that better red you recommended", not insisting they order exactly what they want.

And the food, you clearly know it's a local thing. You made that clear. So when they ordered it, why not say "So that's three steaks, black on the outside, still red in the middle, right?"

And regardless, meat sent back to be cooked more isn't an issue. Undercooked is easy, overcooked is wasted meat.

Even if I was in the USA visiting (if/when I do get my rear end over there I intend to tip like a local) I wouldn't have left you a cent. Or I might have even added a 1 cent tip just to be even more insulting. It sounds like you was less their bartender and waiter, and more like you was their automon 2000 food and drink ordering robot. "Sorry sir, 'A beer' does not compute. Please enter your choice of beverage by saying the whole name after the beep."

edit: I don't get it. The plate thing... When you rely on tips to live, how do you have the "calling them sir" thing down to a tee, even using it when it's clearly not appropriate, yet don't have the "apologize and fix it even if it isn't broken" bit down? Switching the food onto a hot plate (and even heating one if it's not usually a thing there) is a lot easier than antagonizing a customer. And won't cost a penny.

Masonity fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Nov 11, 2012

# ¿ Nov 11, 2012 20:19

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

rikatix posted:

I've been at this for a long time, I am the go to guy in my restaurant as I know how every item is prepared, I have been formally trained to pair all of our bottles and glasses with every dish on the menu.

I don't want to argue this, and know that I never began to argue with them until they got out of hand.

Ordering your steak "Pittsburgh" and being shocked when it's not what you had in mind, even when the meat came out perfect is the same as ordering a fried chicken sandwich and being amazed when it hits the table only to find that the kitchen didn't grill it. The nerve.

At a point there was no saving the table and my manager was involved the entire time.

This was just one of those tables that was doomed from the start.

Perhaps I'm painting the wrong story, when I say they ordered "a glass of red". It was "I'll take a glass of the red", hands me a dinner menu as if they are done ordering for the evening and then resumes their conversation with the rest of the table. They weren't looking for any input from me.

Guess what then? You have been formally trained. The customer hasn't. You could have just brought them the red, white and beer that goes best with a pittsburg. And on the whole pitsburg thing, I know a fried chicken sandwich is fried, not grilled. I don't, however, know what "pitsburg style" is. And they probably didn't either. IF in doubt, make sure the customer is aware.

There are multiple paths you could have taken. You chose "be a stuck up prick and antagonise the customer". If you lacked product knowledge it would have been somewhat excusable. As it stands? Honestly it just sounds like you aren't cut out for this. Not every customer is the perfect customer. But guess what? Taking a tough customer, giving them a great night and getting a decent tip out of them at the end is one of the most rewarding things in this job. If you only want customers who are trained in your particular restaurant's etiquette, find somewhere that screens the clientele.

Or you could go down the old "You weren't there I didn't say how bad they were, these guys were literally eating babies when they came in, and one ejaculated in my managers eye" route to try to justify it to us after you didn't get the "Oh god, they didn't tip? Dirty Irish Bastards!" response you was looking for.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2012 21:11

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

danquixotic posted:

I'd also like to point out that us dirty Irish mongrels, dogs that we are, have a practically nonexistent tipping culture. When it comes to pouring drinks in most situations there is no expectation of it, and even when I was working weddings here which would usually be a tip-heavy kind of event I probably averaged 10-15 euro in 12 hours. Sucks but thats the way it goes.

I'm in London, so your UK exports might differ from both the home stock and American exports, but I've always known Irishmen to be decent tippers for a sit down meal, and great for the old "And one for yourself!" at the bar. The "one for yourself"s soon add up to either a nicely drunk barman or ma nicely filled tip jar. The ~~best~~ ~~worst~~ ~~best~~ ~~worst~~ ~~best~~ ~~worst~~ ~~best~~ ~~worst~~ best kind are the ones that insist you take it as a drink, there and then, and drink it with them.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2012 23:11

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

I've had the opposite in the UK... Americans who see coins as worthless so hand me all their coins as well as a fiver as a tip. Rare, but it happens.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2012 09:55

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

We have a hybrid system at work, and it's awesome. The soda guns don't do still water, only soda, coke, lemonade, diet coke and tonic. We have these amazing "water guns" though positioned under our bar. You can both fill a glass with them really fast (they have great pressure), or turn a lever the other way and use it to get hot water for cleaning. We call them taps, and I strongly recommend you invest in some!

# ¿ Nov 13, 2012 17:36

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

nrr posted:

I think we were all pretty firm in our solidarity that we would never ever try and undertake something so awesome ever again.

There. Fixed that for you.

As much as it sounds like a gently caress-ton of work, and fiddly as hell, it also sounds like one of the coolest nights ever.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2012 13:34

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

MC Eating Disorder posted:

Also tonight we solved a really pressing ontological problem. Is there a mispour so bad a bar-back wont drink it? Yes, apparently.

What was it? I'm asking both to avoid myself and possibly use for evil inflicting it on colleagues. You know, for those times that Tabasco in their beer just won't cut it.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2012 16:57

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Maybe a cheap red wine to really mess with both the appearance and the taste?

# ¿ Dec 1, 2012 01:43

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Coohoolin posted:

L got the sack for getting drunk on the job. Never EVER hire your regulars.

I hope that by drunk you mean absolutely smashed? I would have assumed that north of the border, being at least slightly buzzing would be a requirement?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2012 10:38

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Verr posted:

So, the Apocalypse is happening next Friday. I volunteered for the shift.

I want to run a special. What should the shot/mixed drink/whatevs be? I was thinking a Solar Eclipse (Well tequila + Jag) and a Sacrifice (Well tequila + Tomato Juice + Tabasco)

Mayans drunk fermented chocolate.

Chilli and chocolate are awesome together.

So what about half Baileys, half milk with either some Tabasco (remember the milk will neutralise most of the heat) or even fresh chilli sticks?

Or a chilli vodka (absolut pepper at worst) layered with baileys for both a hot peppery hit and chocolate? Ideally you want the vodka first but I don't have any baileys at home to see which way it layers.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2012 17:30

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

tentish klown posted:

Since when was baileys chocolate?

Since always?

http://www.baileys.com/product-and-company-information/

Seeing as Cocoa is one of the main ingredients, I think it's fair to call it an alcoholic chocolate drink. Here in the UK it's the first thing we think of when we think "chocolate alcohol"...

Something similar with Creme de cacao could work too, but I've never used it so I have no idea what it mixes with or how it tastes. I've never seen any type of chocolate flavoured alcohol in a bar that isn't either Baileys or some awful shooter brand with 58 flavours.

edit:

http://www.baileys.com/our-story/

Go through the story, and once you have "make cream" and "make whiskey", you get to "add chocolate" which is the flavouring page.

Masonity fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Dec 15, 2012

# ¿ Dec 15, 2012 20:33

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Sheep-Goats posted:

Godiva makes good chocolate liqueurs that are fairly easy to find on the US.

Yeah but in Baileys you have the USA's best selling alcohol brand in December. It's America's Christmas Drink.

The world ends a few days before Christmas. So everyone is after a Baileys fix. Throw in a cool story of it being similar to what the Mayans actually drunk, tart it up a little, and you have yourself the perfect end of the world cocktail.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2012 20:39

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Kial posted:

On that note did anyone have a good staff Xmas party? I don't think I've ever been so drunk over the course of a whole day in my life. Wild stuff, including a female co-owner making out with two staff members despite being engaged.

A Christmas party in December? Are you crazy?

Ours will be in mid January when the trade drops off.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2012 11:21

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Shooting Blanks posted:

Pour coffee. Apply whiskey. Consume. Isn't the whole point of Irish coffee to be a simple way to catch an alcohol buzz and a caffeine buzz at the same time?

Proper Irish coffee has hand whipped until almost whipped cream in it too.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2013 00:03

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

I'm taking it from the "American protocols" part that you aren't in the USA?

In which case all fired is probably illegal. Cleaning house then rehiring in the UK would be a pretty obvious breach of employment law. Go talk to citizens advice if you are on these shores.

Beyond that, if the old guy is being promoted and the place runs well, cleaning house would be dumb as hell.

When my new GM took over last summer it reset any chances of promotion and she said people had a clean slate and all that, but the poorer staff were slowly pushed out after being given several chances and written and verbal warnings about what they were doing wrong and still offered a transfer to a less busy part of the chain if they wanted. And the good staff just carried on kicking names and taking rear end.

If you are one of the good workers your new boss will need you to train the Barbies and Kens who come in, and to keep the standards up. What's more likely is a shift in hiring practices where only the Barbies and kens get a look in when hiring new staff and the godawful wastes of space every team gets every now and then get pushed out slowly. The good but non-pretty people there now will become the veteran core that holds up barbieville.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2013 14:38

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Yeah if he's just using it as a way of saying "There's a clean slate, if you've been a slacker in the past I don't care, all I care about is now onwards" then it's fine. Otherwise, red flags all over, speak to your local equivalent of citizens advice to find out your legal position.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2013 17:07

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

FaceEater posted:

And if on any given particular night that person were to walk in, without an ID, but we all knew he/she were of age (could be a centenarian), and a sting were to go down, and that person couldn't produce an ID to the cops when they asked, the bar would be footing the bill

That's a ridiculous law. Here in the UK someone looking in their mid 20s is an excuse for serving them. Stings always use kids that look too young so the police can't be accused of setting them up, and even the strictest places use "challenge 25" where anyone who looks under 25 is IDd. Most are challenge 21.

# ¿ May 5, 2013 13:05

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Biscotti baileys with orange liqueur? Maybe i'm being a little unambitious here though.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2013 20:20

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Sheep-Goats posted:

Look what you made me order online thread. Just look at it.

First impression: Wow, England has lovely trailerpark style baked good as well

"McVITIE'S JAFFA CAKES: / THE ORIGINAL BLEND / OF DARK CRACKLY / CHOCOLATE, LIGHT SPONGE / & THE SMASHING / ORANGEY BIT"

Why you gotta turn adjectives in adverbs England -- why you leavin' out nouns

Take that back. The Jaffa cake is not only a cultural icon, but forms an important part of British Tax Law.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vfoodmanual/vfood6260.htm

# ¿ Jul 4, 2013 01:31

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

PittTheElder posted:

Is this a thing that actually happens? I'm certainly familiar with "I'll have a Coke/Pepsi", followed by "we only have the other one", but I've never seen anyone care enough to change to something else.

Pepsi from a gun actually gives me the shits. From a bottle is fine (unless I'm in Norway, then ditto on the shits), and coke from a bag or a bottle is fine.

So yeah. I'm a "pepsi? Nah I'll have water" customer myself.

edit: Okay, maybe not water, but certainly not Pepsi.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2013 06:15

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Animal-Mother posted:

My brother wants to become a bartender and he's convinced you have to go to school. There's a certification you have to get in my state (WA) but you don't have to get it prior to getting a barback gig. You have two months to get it. How can I show him he's probably being taken for some money?

Doing a course for the certification itself certainly can't hurt, as long as the rates are competitive. He'll have to pay it eventually anyway, and I personally wouldn't hire anyone without it despite any 2 month leeway if such a certification existed here. Why take the risk?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2013 06:20

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

idiotsavant posted:

Most people are aware of it, so it really isn't a problem. And it's a pretty unique situation - we're a non-profit, and making too much money is actually an issue. The place is pretty old and we need to do some major upkeep (new foundations, roof work, etc), but we bring in enough to cover it. We've actually reduced our hours pretty significantly this year just because we've been so busy. Like I said, everything's run off of volunteer labor, and it's more important to keep our volunteers happy as long as we make enough to cover operating costs & capital improvements.

I've talked about it with local bartenders before, and it's pretty funny because everyone has had a similar reaction as you - the place is basically a license to print money as fast as you possibly can, so why the hell wouldn't you do so? I don't even want to think about revenue if you ran it as a business and you were open every weekend. Tradition is pretty strong, though, and the history goes way back so it's a totally different mentality.

The thing is though...

Say you install an ATM and hire professional bartenders to work every weekend. And it makes tons of cash...

You could then use that to have very cheap subsidized drinks for members. And fix the place up properly. And then invest in other cool poo poo for members. Eventually, you could just have even cheaper still food and drink for members, really great quality stuff, while "outsiders" fund it with their drinking.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 20:25

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:33

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

It just reenforces the idea that robots instead of barmen are great as a gimmick but terrible as an actual business plan. If you opened a robot bar everyone in town would come once, for a drink. Then they'd go somewhere with cool, efficient, knowledgeable staff and shoot poo poo with them about that cool new robot place down the road while getting properly smashed.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2013 00:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about Bartending - The Revenge

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