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Brannock posted:Looks like there's a science penalty now for techs to going wide, similar to how there's a culture penalty now for policies if you went wide. According to Mad Djinn's stream a few days ago, it's not that major of a penalty, it only really deeply impacts super wide empires that are nothing but size 2-3 cities. Which has always been a play style Firaxis has been trying to discourage. Also related: They did reduce the culture penalty from cities. edit: How many natural wonders have new bonuses like the Kilimanjaro one? That sounds like a neat idea, even if the bonus itself could be a bit overpowered. I'd like to see more benefits from trying to incorporate natural wonders than their often lackluster yields. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 9, 2013 |
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Jul 9, 2013 18:32
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You know what interface addition I would like to see, especially with the new tech mechanics? A preview of what your tech and culture costs will turn into when you found a new city. Like, maybe make a tooltip when hovering over a settler in the build menu that says "A new city built now would increase your current tech costs by x beakers and social policy costs by y culture." Because having to do the math manually is lame as hell.
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Jul 9, 2013 19:17
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Those kinds of issues can usually be attributed to odd driver/hardware related issues. Try updating your graphics card drivers.
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Jul 9, 2013 19:44
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Speedball posted:Looks like Exploration unlocking will be pretty important for a cultural victory, even though it's entirely sea-based. Because it unlocks the the Louvre wonder, and that has many slots for sticking stuff into. If you are going for a culture victory, you will never run out of great works slots to fill. The slots themselves are not the bottleneck, rather the great person/artifact production is.
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Jul 9, 2013 21:50
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Sojenus posted:I've tried a culture win twice now, both times getting complete religion/ideology/whatever dominance, but the first time I get one rear end in a top hat who blows away in culture production to the point I may as well go for a diplomacy victory, and the second time one jerk who refuses to give me open borders to let my multiple 5k+ great musicians in to get the victory within a reasonable time frame. I mean I could go to war but ugh gently caress moving all those units around it's such a hassle I'd rather just claim I won the moral victory and start a new game. Can you do concert tours at cities from civs you're at war against? I can just imagine your military having its sole purpose be escorting all these bands around to enemy cities in order to conduct unauthorized concerts.
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Jul 9, 2013 22:06
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khy posted:QUESTION. If they get unhappy enough, their cities will defect to the closest influential Civ, I believe.
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Jul 9, 2013 22:08
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I see the AI still has really basic fundamental issues like not improving all of its resources. I know AI programming is hard and all, but there is something terribly wrong if the capital city I capture 100 turns in has both of its marble tiles completely unimproved. There is just no excuse for that. Venice also has two pearl tiles adjacent to its city from the start. 100 turns in, they still haven't built fishing boats and improved them. The game would be so much better if the opponents you played against actually had the basic fundamentals of the game down. The higher difficulties would be much more interesting if they didn't have to lean on bonuses so much and the AI was more competent than a chieftain-level newbie.
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Jul 10, 2013 22:52
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Brazil seems really strong for cultural victories. Especially if you take GA enhancing policies/wonders and set things up for an eternal end-game Carnival. I was just bumbling around not knowing how to effectively do anything and I managed to win before the information era even.
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Jul 11, 2013 07:16
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thehumandignity posted:Is my understanding of the East India Company correct? Does it only provide benefits if other civilizations create trade routes to the city it's built in? My capital is very centrally located, right in the middle of four other capitals, surrounded by flood plains, gold, and a few plantations, plus I'm Morocco and I've built Petra on top of all of that, so naturally they should all be knocking on my door there, right? No, the only, solitary external trade route anyone's set up is from Mecca to a tiny 2 population city on the opposite side of my empire from him with no buildings and no improvements. So I'm a little cynical about the AI's ability to conduct trade and, thus, the usefulness of an East India Company. That's supposed to be how it works, yeah. It could be that your capital is just an unappealing trade target. I'd be surprised if the AI did anything other than pick the highest value trade target available, so maybe there's another city within their range that is giving them more money.
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Jul 11, 2013 08:00
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Did they set up the route before you got your EIC built? I forget how long trade routes last for, but they have to actually expire before you can change them. It could also be that the AI doesn't only look at gold like I assumed and he was trying to do something strange like spread religion.
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Jul 11, 2013 08:42
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Fargo Fukes posted:With the Steam sale coming up I'm looking for advice whether I should buy Civ 5 or not. Can anyone help me out? Some background info: I will say that Civ 4's demand for micro-management was probably just an illusion. As in, it just looked like it did but it really didn't. I've seen people win on deity making heavy use of citizen and worker automation. On lower difficulties, that stuff was even less important. That said, Civ V is a lot more streamlined and easier to get in to, I'd say. Civ 5 still has some fairly long stages in infrastructure building but that all amounts to your play style. You could play as Zulu and Attila every game on Pangaea maps and be a constant warmonger if the peace game is too boring for you.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:15
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Beamed posted:I would be surprised if it's intended, but I guess it's possible. Each great work has a unique name, artwork, and the books have quotes. There is naturally only a limited number of these made by Firaxis and in 22 civ games, you're going to run into that relatively quickly. It may not be balanced for high civ counts particularly well, but it's definitely intended for there to be a limit.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:59
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Alkydere posted:You can win culture earlier than that if you know what you're doing but it's true the culture does skyrocket late game. Especially when you finally get Hotels. In my Assyrian Culture Domination last night I won just as I hit modern age due to hotels, Freedom, and control of the world congress. Having hotels when your territory is dotted with Landmarks generating 12-13 culture mixed with +34% tourism from radio towers generates lots of suitcases. And if hotels aren't enough, once you get to airports it should really be enough. And if that somehow isn't enough, there's the International games. And the National Visitor's Center. And if you're somehow still not winning by that point, you can rush The Internet. And if you're Brazil, you have a +100% modifier on demand. You're banking an Artist, right? The fact that most of those bonuses aren't necessary is probably indicative of tourism being a little bit overpowered. Maybe they should dial down tourism production a little.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:34
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ManOfTheYear posted:Yeah, I understand that games are games and that's a good thing, I just remember my reaction when I invented Buddishm in a couple of turns: "Dude, you CANNOT research and invent religion like that!" What's wrong with Jared Diamond though? I thought that book was a classic. This post is a contradiction. I'm not going to question your tastes, PI's games are definitely on the more complex side of the spectrum, but if you want actual simulated realism then you're going to get a game that's at least as or more complex than anything PI has on offer. And if that's too much for you, then the realism you want isn't actually going to be appealing to you. You can't have a simple and inviting game that also represents history in the way you want. That said, religion is represented slightly more realistically in Civilization 5. In that it has an impact and you do more than "invent" it, you generate faith points which can add up into a great prophet who can found/enhance religions. Religions also actually do things. I said "slightly" because it's not like that's how history went, either.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:33
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ManOfTheYear posted:I guess that's a bit of shame, then. A lot of games are easy to grasp but become super complicated if you dwell deep enough into them, like Street Fighter or World of Warcraft. Sure they're not a strategy games, but you get the idea. Maybe different kinda packaging would help: a lot of screenshots from PI games are basically map of Europe with stock market info in it. That's a little intimidating, but maybe I'll give a shot for them in the near future. Street Fighter doesn't ever get too complicated. You're confusing complexity with game depth and are making assumptions about the nature of complexity in games based on simple yet deep games. The Street Fighter games are relatively simple and approachable yet a lot of depth can arise from those simple rulesets. That's not the same as complexity. This isn't just semantics, I point this out because if you want to have a realistic representation of history, it just absolutely cannot be simple. SF and Civilization are not equivalent at all. There are a lot of ways you can mitigate the ease of use problems inherent in complex games, but that ultimately only goes so far and the more realistic a historical strategy game gets, the more complex the game mechanics are going to have to be in order to represent that, and the harder to learn it will be by its nature. Civilization 5 tries to avoid being overly complex by simplifying the rules, and this has the unavoidable side effect of being heavily unrealistic. But I'd argue that there's still an interesting amount of complexity in there, especially with the additions the expansions make, and it can get pretty deep the more you get into it. It has that same "relatively easy to grasp but gets real deep as you get better" quality that you attribute to Street Fighter. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 23:35
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Verviticus posted:Are tenets supposed to be a loving mystery? There's no way to tell what they are until you are able to take them, unless I'm missing something. You can use the in-game Civilopedia. But otherwise yeah, that aspect of the interface is unfortunately really lacking. They really should give you more indication about what can be unlocked as you go further down the page rather than having to close out of the window, and look stuff up in the civilopedia.
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Jul 12, 2013 05:36
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You have to manually browse through the Civilopedia into the Social Policies section and then the ideology of your choice. It then lists the Tenets alphabetically and you have to click each one to find out what their tier is and their bonus. Yeah... there are some pretty massive interface flaws still, it's kind of shocking just how awful the civilopedia is, which gets real noticeable when the other parts of the interface become lacking. I just ended up making those decisions with this page open in another window scrolled down to the tenet section. It's better then using the information the game provides you with.
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Jul 12, 2013 05:52
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But once you select ideology, you can no longer see that list anywhere but in the civilopedia, which is an inadequate resource. It makes planning out your tenet choices needlessly frustrating as you either have to memorize the entire tenet tree or deal with the lovely civilopedia.
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Jul 12, 2013 06:34
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Platystemon posted:I thought that was just for the victory condition. The Public Opinion formula isn’t explained well in‐game. Public opinion is basically based on the amount of influence opposing ideologies have vs the influence your own ideology has (tourism from same-ideology civs). If you let lots of other-ideology civs get influential with you, you will start to get unhappiness effects. Influence is basically their tourism vs your culture, so the best defense is beefing up your culture. You don't need to focus on it, but if you neglect it completely you will end up pretty screwed in the late game. One thing you could do is try to capture cities that have great works in them in order to deny them from your opponents and to take them for yourself, boosting your own culture. Make sure you target the right cities, try to pick ones with lots of wonders. Also, hope a cultural civ adopts your own ideology, that helps a lot in counter-acting enemy culture. You can close your borders which will remove a +25% modifier. Trade routes also give a +25% modifier, so you can either declare war or get the world congress to embargo. Tourism overall is probably overpowered. There just aren't enough practical counters. Culture victories are now really easy, and it's really drat difficult to outpace cultural influence. Seems like taking out anyone pushing tourism is the only real counter to tourism. It would be nice if there were more ways to control who can trade with you, for a starter. I want to be able to pull a North Korea. Lyrai posted:Civ 5 has Steam Cards now. 8 of them, with four of them being the advisers. The other four are Bismark, Elizabeth, Washington, and Catherine. It's not seen as an aggressive action so there is no penalty for the most part. The only problem you'll run into is that it's still seen as an expansion, I believe. And if it's right on their territory, they'll see it as aggressively expanding towards them. I think. I've played Austria all of once and I seem to remember the AI getting pissed at me for being too ballsy with my diplomatic marriages. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 09:56
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I think I'll still go back and play Civ IV BTS because that's just such an incredibly good strategy experience that still hasn't been topped. But BNW is really good in its own right. I just hope that Firaxis can issue out a balance patch or two in order to work out some issues. But knowing Firaxis' history with patching, I won't hold my breath. It's still really good as-is, thankfully. I think if they finally fixed some bone headed AI issues, and did some balancing touches, it would end up surpassing BTS in my eyes. But there's a lot of little stupid things holding Civ V back.
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Jul 12, 2013 13:19
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sauer kraut posted:What happened to the awesome resource management? You can still get super tiles, it just generally takes more effort. Not gonna lie, I think I prefer Civ 4's tile yields, just because it was so much fun to find a city with like 4 gems or gold, mine the poo poo out of them, and make ridiculous amounts of money just from the tile yields. But in 5, they really want you to find those resources elsewhere. Trade routes, buildings, wonders, etc. Cities by default are pretty weak and you really have to boost them through various means. The exceptions to this are edge cases, like a mountainous Incan Petra city that just has crazy good tile yields. There's still a lot of actual resource management, especially when it comes to strategic. Trying to trade/land grab important sources of iron or coal or whatever have you. The transformation of those into limited use resources was a really smart move.
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Jul 12, 2013 19:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:You can get some crazy good food tile yields on sea resources with god of the sea, lighthouse, harbors, etc. Of course you'll also have a number of bad tiles from the open ocean, but a fishing boat or two can boost a starting island city up to the 5-10 range really fast. Civ IV was a whole different breed of crazy where all you had to do to get an 8 commerce tile was build a mine on some gems. Of course, it was balanced with that in mind, I just like seeing lots of big numbers everywhere.  Tulip posted:Agh goddammit i just got up and thus missed the summer sale. Like getting wonder sniped in real life It's bound to be a daily deal. Don't worry.
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Jul 12, 2013 19:57
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ChikoDemono posted:The Huns declared war on me pretty early. They only had a battering ram and crossbowman for range and a some spearmen for melee. Not sure what they were thinking. Rushed out a few catapults and went to work. Puppeted the capital and second city. Unhappiness shot up to 10 and I couldn't do enough damage to take the third so I peaced out. He went to neutral and wanted to exchange embassies. He couldn't care less that I took two of his cities. I'm sure we'll be bros again the next era. I'm starting to think that the reports about smarter military AI were just false positives. They're still braindead stupid when it comes to military matters. I think the passivity has to do with there being a lot more non-military stuff to produce, so the AI spends a lot less time building military units. Their weaker military leads to them declaring war less often, and when they do declare war they end up with lackluster armies.
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Jul 12, 2013 21:40
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Is there a higher diplomacy hit for razing cities than simply capturing and keeping them? The AI seems really unhappy with me right now. But these god damned assholes settled cities on my island!  Considering my relatively modest army is #1 in the world I have a feeling that my world is populated entirely by peace loving hippies. So I guess that means it's time to change up strategies and go Honor + Autocracy.
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Jul 12, 2013 22:15
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Dongattack posted:What does it mean when a social policy says it unlocks a wonder? I can still build it without having the right policy and can still be beaten to it if i do. What's the deal? Unlocking the policy trees themselves unlocks the wonder, not any specific policy. Opening up Aesthetics unlocks Uffizi for example. You shouldn't be able to begin building them without doing that first.
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Jul 12, 2013 22:17
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Yeah, with the addition of a free trade route, Petra is pretty good even if the city it's in doesn't have much desert.Dongattack posted:Is there a neat page that lists the changes from G&K? Very sad about rivertiles being boring now, wondering what else there is to consider. I missed this earlier, but: http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_bravenewworld.html
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Jul 12, 2013 22:46
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Niwrad posted:I almost always trade with city-states late in the game. Don't want to give the other Civs the extra science or gold. Sometimes I will with a civ that isn't a threat, but never with one that is. I also find that trading with a city-state that is close in proximity is less likely to have issues during a war or from barbarians. Sometimes you can get lucky with quests, otherwise the ones with a ton of allies goes Patronage and Commerce and makes a crapload of money from trade routes to spend on the city states. The downside to trading with only the city states is that you make less money to buy influence with. It also helps to spread your religion to them, which reduces decay. That, combined with Patronage can go a long way. Late game, Freedom and Order have influence affecting tenets that really help a lot. Gunboat Diplomacy and Treaty Organization can keep you allied without spending any money and Arsenal of Democracy lets you replace monetary gifts with units, basically. Some people will go patronage and get the 20 influence resting point bonus and then pledge to protect a lot of city states for an additional influence resting point bonus and be perma-friended with cheap alliances, but that can be risky and bad for your overall world diplomacy if there are aggressive civs on the map. It synergies nicely with Freedom's Treaty Organization though. Niwrad posted:How does the domino effect work? I guess I'm confused at what gives you influence besides the quests and money. Or maybe that's it? It feels like I'll work my butt off helping one and when I get them to ally I look up and another Civ has the other 7 on the continent. I guess I don't understand how they manage to do this. A city state will request resources be hooked up to your trade network. You find another city state that offers that resource, buy them out, and end up getting two CS allies for the price of one. If that city state then offers another resource that another city state wants, the chain continues, but I find those kinds of opportunities rare. To put it simply, the other civs are probably just making a lot more money than you are and have gone Patronage. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 23:03
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Most likely that city state does not actually have Industrialization.
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Jul 12, 2013 23:43
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JayMax posted:Yeah, did you try improving the resource for them? (it's one of the gift options) If the city state does not have the required tech access, the option will be red. They can have a mine on the resource but if they can't see it, they can't give it to you.
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Jul 12, 2013 23:49
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I managed to rush through Industrial into Modern in like 10 turns my last game using free techs, basically going Scientific Theory -> Electricity -> Radio. It got me to Ideologies really fast without having to build factories (thank goodness for that too, I had no coal) and it was a culture game so rushing radio was pretty good for me. And if you're going culture, you should end up with most of the pre-reqs for Scientific Theory anyways, so this is probably going to be my preferred culture tech route.
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Jul 13, 2013 00:03
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Nope, stables can only be made if you have a source of improved sheep, cows, or horses nearby. It's just part of the weird gaminess of civilization. One thing I would like to see is a further emphasis on city specialization. It seemed like they de-emphasized that aspect going from civ 4 to civ 5, but with the new unit/combat systems I would have liked them to go further in the other direction. Like, remove the mounted unit build bonus from stables and make it so only cities with improved horses gets a (bigger?) bonus. I'd also like to see some type of specialization for melee units, archers, siege, etc. I haven't tried it yet, but I believe the civil war scenario does something vaguely like this but gone even further, where only certain cities can produce certain units. But eh, to accommodate that kind of stuff you'd probably want to redesign the production model to make it so you could have more viable production cities without being unbalanced and this is turning into too much work. I dunno, it just seems like the cities in Civ V don't have much character to them. Your production cities all seem equally good at everything, your trade cities are all mostly the same, etc. Maybe they can find a way to improve this in Civ VI. One of the weird things about Civ V is that you get the impression the maintenance system was done in order to try to make players specialize cities to certain roles but in practice you make so much money that almost all buildings are worth the cost for almost all cities. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 09:09
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And lastly, you can buy up a couple militaristic city states (you get their units) and burn the tech leader's cities to the ground. 
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Jul 13, 2013 11:29
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Snow Job posted:My successful France game never had this happen, despite 'Dominant' influence over a few of the smaller factions and Revolutionary Waves hitting two of the larger ones. Their overall happiness has to be at -20 or worse. Sometimes Revolutionary Wave isn't enough and you have to encourage it further by banning resources or doing whatever else you can to make them unhappy. Platystemon posted:Speaking of Treaty Organization, I’ve heard that it’s gives influence for trade routes, but I’m playing a game now where its description is “Gain 4 more influence per turn (at Standard speed) with City‐States you have pledged to protect.” Erm, I'm pretty sure that's what Treaty Organization is supposed to do. That's what it's listed as at Well of Souls, and in my Civilopedia. I'm a PC user, my coal is unveiled at Bronze Working, so I'm pretty sure it's like that for everyone. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 18:15
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DrManiac posted:Does civ 5 have any crazy total conversion mods like Fall from Heaven yet? Nope. The mod tools aren't really powerful enough to make such an effort easy enough or worthwhile. Is it even possible to alter core mechanics or create entirely new ones?
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Jul 13, 2013 18:48
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Corvinus posted:Desert hill with Kasbah plus Petra equals a 2f/4p/1c tile. It's a disgustingly good combination. Also means that an oasis is potentially worse than a plain desert tile. That is a decent combination but you're going to have to lean on caravan trade routes to make the city grow in the mid to late game, eating into trade route income. There doesn't seem to be enough 3+ food tiles. To be honest, as Morocco, I'd rather have a decent coastal start than that start. It doesn't strike me as particularly good because growth will be slow and you won't be able to leverage a lot of your trade benefits.
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Jul 13, 2013 18:51
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^^^^ Edit: That, essentially. It's just good gameplay to force the player to make tradeoffs and focus on specific things, especially in the early game where you're setting the tone for the entire rest of the game. Do you focus on religion? Do you do an early conquest instead? Or go for early wonders? Or maybe you spend your time building settlers and attempt to rapid expand. Doing any of those things means not doing the others. That's the entire foundation of strategy gaming and creating those situations is good game design.Ervin K posted:Can somebody explain to me the logic of having only a limited number of religions? It makes the game so much more frustrating. It creates a race to found the religions before you run out of world religion slots which means you can't be lazy about faith in the early game, introducing competition into that aspect. It also just makes for a cleaner map. If there were an unlimited number of religions, literally everyone would have one at some point and it would just be a mess. Also, the limit is a practical one based on the belief system, there is naturally a limited number of beliefs so you couldn't go higher than that limited number would allow. I honestly don't find it frustrating at all. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 19:41
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Inspector_71 posted:Given the new types of cultural and ideological competition in BNW, I think I would make sense/be kind of cool to have a jillion religions all battling with each other for domination. The belief limitation kills the idea of unlimited religion, though. I think that would be overwhelming and a nightmare to manage. Imagine trying to spread religion in a game where every single civ has a holy city and they'll always pump out their own missionaries/prophets.
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Jul 13, 2013 19:47
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Gothy McAngstydie posted:Holy cow I am bad at this game. It is superfun and neat to play, I picked it up on sale and have played Venice a couple times since. I literally do not know what I am doing at all with any other civilization. I tried Theodora for the religion bonus but there are so many options I didn't know what to do with New Orthodoxy and I floundered until I got out-expanded by nearby China and England. I had like 3 cities and a settler for my fourth building until China snapped up the real estate. I guess I shouldn't have been so afraid of war? Just one? Focus and specialize. That means coming up with specific goals and putting your entire empire to work achieving them and not straying from that. If, for example, your current goal is to take over your entire continent, then don't waste time building wonders. The Colossus is nice, but you could build a couple catapults instead. If your goal is to build the dominant religion, build shrines before granaries, ignore the great library completely, etc. I make this point because the easiest trap you can fall into, and the thing I see new players get wrong more than anything else, is to generalize your empire, and to try to do everything. They also tend to just aimlessly fart around until the mid to late game without any idea of how they will win. Don't build every building in every city, don't try to do everything, and by turn 15 or 20, have a general plan for how you want to win the game and come up with periodic short and mid term goals to accomplish that. Plans can also change and that's fine, just don't be aimless. TheGame posted:I got pretty freaked out when 4 of the Huns' cities decided to flip to my team in the span of 10 turns. I wish there were a warning for crap like that, or at least a better way to mitigate happiness losses when that happens. I went from ~40 happiness with the luxury happiness policy to ~-10 in basically no time at all. At least the cities came with 3 free wonders and a bunch of art! You have to keep an eye on the culture victory screen. The one that tells you your influence level with everyone, their happiness level, and whether or not they're content. If someone is in the midst of a revolutionary wave and their empire happiness is worse than -20, cities are going to start flipping, so be ready for that. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 04:30
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Ainsley McTree posted:Yeah, I had a game with a renaissance artifact once, so I know at least that exists. Classical isn't at all uncommon either, you just have to keep excavating and trying. In my current game, I actually found an Industrial era artifact. It was a pendant or something. 
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Jul 14, 2013 05:11
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Inspector_71 posted:Will the AI ever vote for anybody not themselves when it comes to WC host? Even friendly civs that I am influential over just throw all their delegates at voting for themselves. I really wish you had a few turns to send diplomats and try to buy favor for the host votes. There are no politics at all, it's literally "Who has the most city state allies?" The AIs will never vote for anyone else, even when they know they have no chance to win and that their bitter enemy has the most delegates. It would be nice if you could form coalitions or something. edit: Maybe all WC voting should be done with Instant Runoff voting instead of first past the post. That could solve the "Everyone votes for themselves" problem. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 05:16
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