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LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Kaebora posted:

Is there a mod that randomizes alchemy effects when starting a new game? When starting new games (a habit I do too often), I'd like to be able to have that sense of mystery when looking at ingredients, and not just go "Nirnroot + Luna Moth Wing - Invisibility, Blue Mountain Flower + Wheat = Fortify and Restore Health, Salmon Roe + Nordic Barnicle + Garlic = Super-Value potion", etc.

If not, would it even be possible to make a mod like this, or is there just an engine limitation issue or something that would prevent this from being made?

I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be possible with the in game scripting. A skyproc patcher could easily do it. You would have to rerun it each time you wanted to switch characters though since it would actually change the esp and wouldn't be stored in the save.

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LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

50 Foot Ant posted:

How do you get the dual weapons redux working with the ProcPatcher and MOD organizer?

http://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Mod_Organizer#tab=Third_Party_Programs has a section on skyproc patchers. You need to do everything else like sort load order and make bashed / merged patches before running skyproc patchers.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

50 Foot Ant posted:

Thanks. I missed the skyproc section. I just started using it yesterday, so I don't think I'm doing too bad since I can get over 75 mods working together.

About Wyrebash: I ran it, it only suggests 2 mods be merged. Since I don't know what I'm doing is it better to just leave poo poo alone till I figure it out better?

With TESVEdit I did the base files (Update, Dragonborn, Dawnguard, Hearthfire) and I've still got a shitload of mods to clean. Weirdly, one of the files, I think it's Dawnguard, stays red even after you clean it, so hopefully I didn't screw poo poo up.

loving ENB took me FOREVER to figure out how to get it to work. But very very worth it.

For previous games Wryebash bashed patches would basically combine non-conflicting changes to the same object from different mods so you get them both in game. Like if one mod changes Ulfric's armor and another changes his hair the way Skyrim works you would only get the change that's loaded last, either armor or hair. Wryebash would see that Ulfric was changed in two mods but they were different things about him and combine the changes into the bashed patch esp (which loads after both the mods) so they both show up in game. Unfortunately the main developers behind wryebash left before Skyrim came out and it took ages for new people to step up and they aren't as fantastic as the old people. So wryebash isn't so wonderful for skyrim and all the bashed patch can handle are leveled lists. Wryebash does other things too but mostly other programs do them better.

TesEdit is a low level editing tool intended for mod makers to do things the creation kit doesn't do. It does lots of things but you probably only care about two. First is cleaning mods which takes out garbage edits the creation kit loves to add. You should only have to clean mods that BOSS tells you are dirty. Second TesEdit can make merged patches. A merged patch is basically what a bashed patch should be. It takes some more effort to get going but it includes way more categories of changes it can combine than wryebash. I've been out of the mod scene for a while but a popular thing was to use wryebash for leveled lists and a merged patch for everything else.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Wryebash isn't hard to use, it just doesn't do much for Skyrim. Tesedit is the tricky one but if you have figured out cleaning mods making a merged patch isn't any harder. If you have more than about 1 mod making a bashed/merged patch gets pretty important. I never did much modding for new vegas but skyrim uses leveled lists for drat near everything. Also most mods don't include the unofficial patch fixes so they will undo them if they edit the same assets which a merged patch can fix.

I managed to forget to mention it in my last post but the reason it was popular to use both a bashed patch and a merged patch is that wryebash and tesedit use different methods for working out actual conflicts, like two mods that both edit the same leveled list in non-trivial ways, and a lot of people swore wryebash made better patches. Personally I found they were usually about the same and usually preferred tesedit if they weren't.

Since you completely finished vanilla get SPERG so you can instantly regret how much time you spent with the vanilla perks.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Psion posted:

There are other mods which just skip the Helgen thing, use one of those? I use one which dumps you in the cavern right before you exit, gives you a prompt of "Stormcloaks or Imperials?", spawns the correct NPC, fits you with an appropriate selection of gear, and then you're out the door and on your way.

No nonsense, works great. Can't remember the name right now but I can look it up later if you like.

That's probably Dimes Quickstart. I've heard it causes problems for some people but its always worked fine for me.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

I'm pretty sure textures won't crash you unless they make you run over the 3.2gb memory limit. Skyrim is really dumb about keeping poo poo it doesn't need in memory so even if it doesn't need them all at once they can still crash you. If you use a resource monitor and it doesn't show skyrim getting up around 3gb or memory before the crash its something else. Sadly crashes are really hard to pin down if they aren't repeatable and in the majority of cases skyrim's logs will end one action before what caused the crash.

Random crashes could be drat near anything. If it happens while blacksmithing it might be something with blacksmithing, but it could also be an npc that just spawned with a bad item. Or it could be a script that had been waiting ages for an event to fire and it finally did and crashed you. If you have run boss and it doesn't tell you about any conflicts or mods in need of cleaning and none of your mods have known bugs you could be digging for a while.

Pastebin your load order and link it and someone might see something glaring.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

grrarg posted:

I copied and pasted my Skyrim folder to a backup before my last playthrough. Anyone know how to reinstall using that without having to redownload through Steam? I thought I could just paste it into steamapps/common and verify file integrity, but that option is greyed out even after restarting Steam.

That used to work but at some point steam started keeping track of installed games in a different way. I think you need to hang onto the appmanifest file that matches skyrim too, appmanifest_72850.acf for regular, not sure if legendary uses the same one. If you start downloading skyrim, pause, and then quit steam it should create the app manifest. You can edit it with notepad and fiddle with the settings to make steam know skyrim is installed and let you verify it.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Arcsquad12 posted:

Okay, I've decided to bite the bullet and start using Mod Organizer over the NMM. Now, is there any way to transfer my mods from NMM over to MO so that I never have to use that godawful downloader ever again?

Also, I've downloaded a few mods through MO already, but I can't see the names of any of the mods on the left tab. If I double click the mods, their descriptions show up, but no names in the actual list.

MO can import your mods from NMM. Its in the tools menu. MO can also install mods from archives so if that doesn't work but you still have the downloads you can just use those. I'm not sure what you mean by not see names. How do you click on them if you can't see them? Screenshot it?

Edit: Oh I think your MO just has the mod name column in the left panel shrunk too much. You expand it by dragging the title divider line things.

LtSmash fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Nov 3, 2013

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Arcsquad12 posted:

Okay, done. Now then, I've installed all the mods I've transferred from NMM. And to activate them I just check their box? How does the black magic come into play to make them all work nicely? And if I want to change certain settings in a mod, will I need to uninstall the mod, reinstall it and check the box again?

Yeah check the box on the left to make them active in MO which will add them to the list on the right. The esp has to also be checked on the right to be active in your load order. Once all your mods are active run BOSS and make patches (through MO) like you would normally. The black magic is that each mod is installed in its own folder instead of the data folder but skyrim only sees the files that you want it to and you can switch those without having to uninstall and reinstall mods.

For example if you had two mods that included a retexture for the iron sword as loose files. With any other mod manager first you would install one mod that would add the iron sword texture to the data/texture folder. Then you install the second mod which will replace the iron sword texture in /data/texture. The first mod's file is overwritten so skyrim only sees the second one. But if you decide you want the first one back you have to uninstall and reinstall it. With MO each mod goes in its own folder and MO tricks skyrim into thinking the one you want is in /data/texture. To switch between them you just reorder the mods in MO, no reinstalling.

If a mod is configured through its installer you will have to uninstall and reinstall it, but it won't mess with other mod's stuff. Continuing the example if the first mod had other options you wanted to change reinstalling would delete the second mod's iron sword. If you wanted to change the first mod's options but keep the second mod's iron sword you would have to uninstall both then run the first then the second. If you have 150 mods with multiple conflicts like that its a nightmare where one out of order install can mean dong a bunch over again. With MO its just drag and drop.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

lunatikfringe posted:

I am pretty sure the game currently does not load the entire open world persay. It loads the "cell" you are in and partially renders surrounding cells that you see in the distance. As you cross over, it fully renders the next cell in anticipation of your arrival.

What Skryrim loads is kinda wonky but that's the gist of it. How much around you it loads is actually changeable in the ini file with the uGridsToLoad=5 setting. But changing it will gently caress your game up because bethesda. This gif shows the same view at 5, 7, and 9. Cells that aren't loaded have LOD info loaded instead. This is the low detail version you see when its far away. In the gif you can see the LOD version of the fort looks like crap and as more cells are loaded the details show up. When you leave an area the reverse happens, the cell is unloaded and you just see the LOD stuff.

The cities are basically a miniature version of your idea. There is too much stuff in them to just have them be normal cells that load as you get near. When you use the gates it unloads the main world and loads the city world instead. You could do the same thing with each hold but it wouldn't really matter. Bethesda was careful to spread things out in the overworld so there is never too many things in the cells you have loaded no matter where you are.

Most of this is actually bethesda chopping the game down to run on consoles. With a beefy computer you run with uGridsToLoad=9 or higher without framerate issues. But quests and scripts end up getting hosed up because the engine expects you to only have 5 loaded. They chose 5 because that was what they could cram into the consoles. Same with cities. Even a middle of the road computer can actually handle having the cities as part of the overworld but there was no way in hell the 360 or ps3 could so we have to use the door.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Hell a patch that made it use more than 3.2gb of ram instead of crashing as soon as it hit the limit would be nice. The fact the release version of the game for pc was compiled without any optimizations enabled kinda says something about how they work.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Magmarashi posted:

Considering those Khajitt are in a rather cold environment wouldn't it be less immersive that they were wearing warm-weather outfits? I know they have fur but that only gets you so far, especially if they have higher body temps like cats do. /sperg

They are already covered in fur, they should be totally warm and snugly.

I'm hammering out the quirks in Signature Weapons for skyrim and would like some chumps to do testing. Its Signature Weapons but with more stabbing. So far it mostly just changes weapon stats but its flexible enough to add other effects too so if anyone has ideas let me know. I should have a version to test tomorrow.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

futile posted:

Check to make sure that you don't have like 5,000 of some random type of key in your inventory. Seen people report this bug quite a few times.

Opening the console and entering player.showinventory will also tell you if you have thousands of non-playable items that are invisible in the normal menu. Mods sometimes use them as helper objects but if something is misbehaving it could be spewing them all over the place.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Berke Negri posted:

Could that be causing some NPC trading to cause crashing to the desktop? I get that every couple of hours, and when I reload my save trading works fine.

I don't think so. If its npcs with items from leveled lists one of the items they get might have broken data that crashes when you try and load it. You could try opening your entire load order in tesedit and using the check for errors command. If its like a follower I have.

Non-repeatable crashes are hard as gently caress to track down. Practically every system in the game can make it crash. You can't even use the logs because when skyrim crashes the logger closes before the error is written.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Differo Cathedra posted:

I'm not sure if it's technically possible but I'd love it if Bethesda's next game could figure out some way to tell you which mod/asset/script/etc. caused a crash. Most of the time now, I just say "screw it" and remove a bunch of unused mods and start a new game rather than hoping that I've gotten the culprit.

While tracking down a particular thing automatically would be a ton of work reasonable error handling that was kind enough to report at least something before burning down would be nice. The script VM is already pretty much isolated from the actual engine, making it dump papyrus stacks on a crash couldn't be that hard. Wrapping the whole engine in an error reporter that gave some vague notion of what was going on would probably let the community come up with the list of what fuckups lead to each one. The fact skyrim doesn't even give you a message before choking when your load order had missing master files is just dumb.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Berke Negri posted:

Speaking of which, I am very familiar with the memory limit that Skyrim/every bethesda game has/save bloat but how common is this with other games? Is it just because of the freedom of modding to push it further than it is supposed to? I know that the fallouts have a seriously terrible save system where no matter what you will corrupt your save on a long enough time line just because.

The memory limit is part of how the program is written. To the computer all your RAM is basically just a really long list of 1's and 0's. A program reads and stores stuff in memory by using an address of how far into that list their info is, usually in bytes. So if I want to keep track of your character level I would do something like declare the memory at byte 4096 to be your level and when I need your level I read byte 4096 and when I want to change it I put the new value there instead. How much memory a program can use is based on how big the address number can be. Old versions of windows only allowed memory addresses large enough to use 2gb of RAM. In like XP they added a feature to use up to 4gb of ram on 32bit processors. You may recall that when Skyrim came out it could only use 2gb of ram, its because they forgot to check the box telling windows to let it use more. The 3.2gb limit is probably because windows has special meanings for memory locations above that.

"But my computer was made after 2006 and has a 64bit processor, why can't Skyrim use all 8tb of ram I have" I hear you say. Well Skyrim was built out of the reanimated corpse of every previous beth game and those all are designed for 32bit processors. And the 360 and ps3 don't have that much ram so why bother updating the engine? Changing it would mean a lot of work for a small payoff (for them, when you crash you already paid them). tes6 will probably be designed for the xbone/ps4 so they will actually want to use more memory so pc users will get to too.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

I really doubt that they would ditch modding because it was a huge part of why the franchise took off. Skyrim is enough of a thing that tes6 will probably sell a boatload of copies even without mods but beth has to realize they get a ton of advertising and goodwill from the mod community.

The esm/esp system is not inherently bad or tied to gamebryo. Its actually a pretty straightforward way of allowing mods and multiple mods to work together. Beth really just needs basic error checking when loading like the community tools have. Ideally they would support a built in bashed/merged patch kind of thing or even just a data conflict reporter so users could know mods are overwriting each other and to make a patch themselves.

And skyrim is totally still using at least parts of the morrowwind code. Try opening the console in morrowwind and typing "crashme %n" and compare to what happens when you try "player.%n" in the skyrim console. In Skyrim that bug actually lets an esp execute arbitrary code on the player's computer if they don't have windows patched up or they turned off some security features. I was half tempted to make 'realistic' hardcore mode mod that reformatted your computer when you died.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

graynull posted:

Ugh, has anyone else encountered this constant CTD when approaching the door to Labyrinthian? A quick search seemed to suggest that is happens to a few people but no real solution was found.

Are you using the USKP after the false esm change but not the hotfix? In version 2.0.0 one of the nifs that I think is part of that area crashes the game depending on the weather.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

dkj posted:

Every time I try to mod this game I give up because the first mod I try won't work. I have never gotten SkyUI to work.

This time its telling me SKSE is not updated or I forgot to install the scripts or some poo poo.

I guess its possible I didn't active the script mod in MO since I have no clue how to do it. Is there more to just checking the mod?

You can't install SKSE through MO (or any other mod manager I think). The easiest way is just to copy everything inside the skse download into your Skyrim folder so the data folder in the zip gets merged with your skyrim data folder and the exe whatnot end up in the skyrim folder itself. SKSE won't have anything to enable in MO.

But if you are using MO the skyui installer won't be able to see the skse files and complain. You can continue installing it anyway. Then activate skyui in MO and start skyrim (through the skse launcher option in MO) and start/load a game. It will give an error if skse is actually not installed right.

Modding skyrim seems super hard but its really not that bad. SKSE needs special care because it has to go in your actual skyrim folder and is a program itself. Mod managers won't let you do that because its super dangerous security wise and no other mod needs to. The SkyUI complaint it because MO does special mod isolation so when installing they can't overwrite each other. When the game loads everything ends up in the right place but during the install every mod thinks its all alone.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

dkj posted:

Yeah. I meant I did what the dude on the tutorial did, archive the /data folder and load it through MO. It tells me its its a newer version than MO recognizes. I'll try the normal way and just paste it into the folder.

EDIT: I did install Skyrim into /program files. Not sure how to reinstall in another directory with Steam.

Moving a steam install is easy.

SKSE has two parts and you need both installed for it to work. First is the loader and dlls which go in SteamApps\common\skyrim\ second are the scripts which go in SteamApps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts merging the data folder in the skse zip with the one in your data folder will put the scripts in the right place. You can check by going to your SteamApps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts folder and checking if skse.pex is there.

To use skse you need to start skyrim through the skse loader, which MO will add to its programs list.


lunatikfringe posted:

Having a slightly outdated mod is better than having a mod completely deactivate after you have been using said mod this whole time. No matter, I am just venting since I am at work and don't feel like being productive :rant: :cheeky:

Its dumb steam disables the mods automatically but if they left an old skse up most people would think they were up to date and report things that had been fixed already. They should have done something like post the old version with a script that would pop up a message in game when you load that it was out of date and needed a non-workshop update.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Desideratus posted:

So I've finally gotten around to reinstalling/modding after getting a new GPU some months back, and I've gotten a look I'm happy with, but something is bugging me: Is there a mod like Feng Shui for FONV, that lets you manually place and then lock down objects? Because decorating my house in hoards of loot is really hard with the default controls, and keeping them there is really hard without lockdown (Especially if you wanna stack them or put them in weird positions, like leaning on the wall).

:spergin::hf::saddowns:

Grimy's Utilities by the author of the wonderful SkyTweak has a page for adjusting position and rotation of your currently grabbed object and can lock it in place (motion type = Keyframed).

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

The Mad Archivist posted:

Finally got back into Skyrim with Rebuild 3 and the Triad of Victory: Mod Organizer, ASIS, and BOSS. Add me to the raving legions of MO's fans - it's not only smarter than NMM, it's faster. The only irksome qualities it has is that I've yet to find a way to export or import ESP load orders, and the simple "lock" function doesn't seem to be what I need; when I run BOSS it likes to sort things in a certain way (like KTA Blade of Woe behind Unique Weapons) that is often not how I want, and MO doesn't seem to have the capacity to do simple imports/exports of load order like NMM does, and I don't think mod priority in the left pane necessarily fixes the issue (as it governs who comes out on top in Data folder fights, not ESP fights, iirc). Overall a trifling issue, though, as everything else is awesome.

You can find the loadorder and plugins txt files in your mod organizer/profiles/whatever folder. You should really use custom BOSS rules to sort your load order though, it will save having to mess around each time. Try BUM since doing it by hand sucks. Add it as an executable to MO and run it that way and it will see your current mods.

With the crashes I assume you are using a merged patch? If not that is probably your first step to cutting them down.

And gently caress the skyrim engine/papyrus. Items in inventories are like crazy nightmare versions of regular items that never work they way they should in scripts. Signature Weapons is just about ready but if you put your current one in something and then select a new one the old one becomes a glitchy placeholder weapon.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

futile posted:

Signature Weapons, like the New Vegas mod?

Sounds strange, but I solved a similar issue by flagging my plugin as an ESM. Otherwise, yeah, getting Papyrus to do anything remotely related to the management of player inventory or equipped/worn items is awful. There are so many bugs.

That's the one. I had to do some dumb stuff to work around skyrim being skyrim. The main thing is it actually replaces whatever weapon you use with a decoy that then gets all the right stats and appearance and stuff. But if you put that decoy weapon in a barrel and then turn something else into a new signature weapon the old one hangs around because papyrus.

Also opinion time: how should I handle tempering for your signature weapon? Same as the item would normally take or something different?

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

futile posted:

What's the intended behavior of the weapon in the barrel? It's supposed to sit there and keep all of its mirrored changes, or revert/disable/delete?

If you're asking about the input required to temper, it should probably stay as the default for the item. Something similar for armors down the road would be cool too. Remember that sad feeling on release day when you realize the iron helmet showed in all of the promos and trailers is actually a lovely generic iron item, found right off the bat, and becomes obsolete in about 5 minutes? Oh man.

Ideally it would turn back into whatever it was before it was made signature. If that turns out to be impossible deleting itself would probably be ok. I've also got a function that returns it to you in case you get disarmed and it disappears because that sucks but that can just fail. I'm probably over-thinking poo poo because I'm trying to make it clean up any that get scattered too and not just what should exist normally.

Tempering means I have to fiddle with poo poo anyway since I can't change material keywords (the poo poo axe bleed perks will break too). I just wasn't sure if I should mess with tempering or just duplicate normal stuff. I also need to look into if player enchanting breaks poo poo (probably).

Armor should be pretty easy to do. Coming up with interesting things to upgrade armor with will probably be harder.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

That's basically what I'm doing, I was just trying to handle it inside the weapon's script so they would clean themselves if a stray one got spawned. I'll just do it for the one the player is supposed to have and blame the user if it goes wrong.

Don't horses and chickens report crimes? That could be what's making the guards know all about your murderous ways.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Signature Weapons for Skyrim seems to be in a good state and could use some testing if anyone is a cool enough dude. Please don't add it to a 300 hour save game and delete all your old files. I've left out tempering and enchanting for the moment as the skse guy is working on a much better way to handle them. It requires SKSE and skyui. Setup is through the skyui mcm.

Let me know about any bugs or ideas for new features.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

futile posted:

I'll turn it on to test it out at the same time I'm testing out the stuff that I'm working on.

For SKSE is there anywhere that keeps a succinct list of upcoming features, or is there a github or anything of current development? I keep hearing about things coming up in the next SKSE release but can't find any further info about it other than the Bethesda forum thread which is a pain in the rear end to go through. We're like 5? months since the last release so I've always wondered how optimistic it is to rely on using upcoming features, at least in a timely manner anyways.

There's not really anything but the posts from the skse team. This post has a dump from his build as of october 31. I think I've also seen one of them mention they are looking to get a new version out before too long but who knows what that actually means. If it doesn't look like anything is happening by the time I get bored I'll take a crack at the dumb hard way of doing tempering but working with enchants is not in the cards without new skse stuff.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

The Iron Rose posted:

Simple, stupid question. Is there a way I can manage the priority of individual esps in MO? I've been trying to switch over and organizing my esps is the last step I have yet to do. I know I can reorder the mods themselves but that's not quite the same thing and for some reason I can't get it to play nice with BOSS.

E: Okay, have to do it manually. That's annoying.

Add boss as an executable inside MO and run it that way. It'll only see active mods.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

The Iron Rose posted:

Oh, no, I did that, it's just that I couldn't edit the priority of the individual plugins on the right pane and the mods in the left pane seemed uneffected when I ran boss.


E: Still can't, ugh. How can I edit the load order of my plugins in MO?

Drag and drop isn't reordering them? Left pane is essentially what install order is without MO, so what textures conflicts and the like win, right pane is esm/esp load order. Boss only does load order. A mod can have different places in the left and right panes but you should be able to drag and drop up and down within a pane to change order.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

The Iron Rose posted:

For some reason it doesn't seem to work with crossbows, and doesn't play nice with already enchanted weapons. I tried with regular and mod added weapons. Regular worked just fine sans enchantment (I'll check with an enchantment), modded was a bit iffier. Seemed to work fine with mod added weapons if they're unenchanted. Enchanted either didn't work (weapon disappeared, I didn't get a new one, had to reload). Alternatively, it flagged it with a stolen flag and turned everyone hostile.

So uh, I'd recommend fine tuning. Seems super cool though, and it's worth noting I added this to a (new) playthrough with about 140 different mods.

Thanks for testing it. Crossbows will need a dawnguard compatibility patch since I didn't want to add the requirement to the base mod. Should be really easy to do, just slipped my mind.

I realize I commented out all the enchantment stuff since player enchants weren't working. You should have gotten an unenchanted version though. Was it only mod weapons that disappeared or vanilla too? I'll look into what was going on there. The stolen flag is even weirder. Can you give any details about what/where that happened? Was the weapon originally stolen, was it mod added, and was it something that happened repeatedly? If you can tell me what mods had issues I can do some tests with them too.

I've been rewriting how it tracks the weapon because skyrim has a huge bug where ObjectReferences will sometimes break items forever and I used a pretty ugly workaround. The skse guy did a little digging and suggested a much nicer solution so hopefully that will fix some things anyway.


I really wish a better mod hosting site would come along and replace the nexus.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

futile posted:

I think a new mod site has huge potential for success but would need to sprout up right before the next TES or FO game. It's too late to take over for Skyrim/etc.

Otherwise I don't think the nexus is a bad site in general but the style, layout, navigation, forums, and stability seem to be something out of 2002 and it could drat sure use a complete relaunch and they NEED to segregate the adult modeling/animation content. Sure, I want to allow myself to see adult content, but I don't want to be forced to see porn mods at every turn.

I do think letting mod authors moderate their own threads to some degree is decent. The whole posts not being deleted but hidden for real mod review is a good plan that will be completely pointless because :nexus:. Banning users is dumb, especially from seeing the mod page at all. Being able to probate from the comments for a day or something would be decent. It would stop people making GBS threads up a thread until a real mod got to check in. Again it wouldn't matter because :nexus: but on another site it could be good.

I'm pretty sure the nexus checks for alt accounts by IP and mac address and stuff and routinely bans them all as having multiple accounts is against the rules.

I think a new site would have to be building some steam before a new game otherwise the default will still be the nexus. What's somewhat strange is there are a couple other sites that do mods but they are either super broad like moddb or like invite only hosts for big projects. TES Alliance is the only place that seems to actually be somewhat in the same game as the nexus but is more focused on forums and their files section is awful.

Myself and a few other goons tried to get a goon wiki for mods going but both myself and Gaist had stuff come up and it died. I'm thinking of starting one for FO4 at launch so hopefully it will be a real resource for mods. Not as good as a real nexus replacement but better than trying to dig through hundreds of pages of a thread to figure out if its Dragons Diversified or Deadly Dragons that will gently caress your game.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

The Shortest Path posted:

I just spent three hours trying to figure out why Mod Organizer wasn't actually installing my mods into Skyrim, only to eventually find that I needed to run it in administrator mode. gently caress Win7 forever and ever.

I'm testing out a few of the graphics mods and then SPERG and Morrowloot and some of the other minor ones from the OP. Given that I've never done this before, is that a good starting point? What else should I look into?

Is your skyrim folder in program files? That's a good way to make lots of mod stuff not work right.

I'm guessing you have the unofficial patches and skyUI already. One of the soul gem fixes is a good idea too. Immersive Armors from the OP adds a bunch of nice armors that aren't stupid and out of place. The similarly named Immersive Weapons does just the opposite. Crafting 300 - Armory of Tamriel is a fantastic weapon overhaul, it splits materials and styles so you can get a steel orcish-style sword or an orichalcum (orc metal) sword in the regular steel style. The Guard Dialogue Overhaul, also from the OP, is very nice. Bethesda hosed up the triggers for a ton of dialogues so they are almost impossible to encounter in game. GDO fixes them which lets the guards say more than the 3 lines you always hear and rebalances when they start commenting on your skills. Immersive Patrols adds more people wandering around which makes the world more lively. Static Mesh Improvement Mod makes all kinds of hideous things look much nicer. Skyrim actually has really nice textures but tons of objects are set to use them incorrectly so they look like blurry poo poo the generic rock for example. Comes with an installer that lets you select quality levels and stuff so its good even on old machines.

Improved Armor Formula fixes armor to not be retarded. In vanilla you can cap your defense with steel or elven armor but beyond that armor is a flat % reduction to damage. When you are near the cap you get more than 5x more survivability out of a point of armor. IAF makes every point of armor increase your survivability the same amount and always makes having a higher armor value better, removing the cap. He links my own IAF for NPCs but its kinda broken and doesn't work nearly as well since npcs never really get high AR, just tons of hp. I've been mulling how to fix it but haven't come up with anything yet.

Tooting my own horn Two Rings will increase your bling and Lootification will get mod added stuff enchanted and added to the world. Its got a learning curve though.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

BlueInkAlchemist posted:

Awesome, thank you.

Just one more question: Those of you who purchased the game on Steam and now use MO, do you ignore Steam entirely and launch through MO, or use MO and launch through Steam?

For MO to do its thing you have to launch everything through it, that means skse/skyrim, tesedit, wryebash, skyproc stuff, or the CK. It has a button that will make shortcuts that start MO and then launch skyrim so you don't have to click through if you want.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

futile posted:

I might be wrong on what this does but what about changing the fArmorRatingBase so NPCs get a higher minimum armor scaling per skill level? Also I always thought really bad looking things like those rocks were from bad low def textures. Didn't realize it was a mesh issue. That's atrocious.

That might work. The real problem is npcs are sponges because they have huge hp pools while the player is uses armor instead. Really fixing things would mean adjusting the npc hp levels too. Most have pretty crummy skills anyway.

And most of the skyrim textures are very nice. If you have the hd pack pretty much everything is super nice. When things look like poo poo its almost always because the model has a hosed up map and is mangling some artists hard work.

Hothtrooper44 posted:

The Nexus does not want passerby's bashing on the content provided for good reasons. It's free, and it's not required. I believe this is a positive. If anyone thinks that allowing typically artistically inept users to freely critic the work of authors will see positive results, they have not put any thought into the subject.

Many authors of mods leave the scene because they get sick of entitled users expecting this or that added or removed. They spend countless hours working on something and all they hear is how it could have been so great if x or y was added. They have jobs and lives usually. Eventually they get fed up and remove all their content and never mod again. It is a last stand of proving that those entitled users do not own them.

Well first we probably shouldn't listen to movie critics because how many of them have made great films? The ability to create anything and the ability to judge a thing are not the same. I couldn't make that AvP game but I sure can call it poo poo. Similarly if I check out a mod I may or may not be able to make it but I can still have a valid opinion on it. I'm not saying users should endlessly poo poo up a thread but being able to disagree with the author is needed. If I liked how a custom sword looked but thought maybe it doing 500 damage was unbalanced would saying it get me banned? What if it doing 500 damage was the author's vision and they got really upset?

People being entitled jerks sucks but a decent moderating policy could solve that without it being a hugbox. Beyond that you just have to ignore it eventually. People should mod for fun not so they can get compliments. If you post something people are free to dislike it, that's life. When you make something public you have to expect the bad as well as the good. If the requests from users are too onerous why not stop reading/responding to them instead of taking down the mod?

There's also the whole ownership and territory thing that the nexus reinforces. I'm sure you've seen Wrye's cathedral vs parlor post. Arthmoor and GateGate are a great example of what's wrong with the modding scene, and the nexus directly feeds that.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

LumberingTroll posted:

So, I have a pretty heavily modded install right now, the ONLY problem I am having is that some times when opening inventory or the magic screen, the game will crash, I also occasionally see some kind of weird artifacting int he scaleform icons. I am using the latest version of SkyUI.

If anyone has any ideas that would be great.

Cat Mattress posted:

In case the issue crops up again, you might try Safety Load.

schlangster posted:

Are you using the Safety Load mod?
The other day I saw a screenshot that looked like this, which apparently was caused by said mod: http://s7.postimg.org/ovv46nzor/Untitled.jpg
So Safety Load might not be the best thing. 1.2 adds an enable only on loading screen option which might help.

I don't know if this is common knowledge but I found a cool mod Forge Menu Overhaul that puts all item sets into their own fake submenus in the forge menu. It makes the crafting menu way less cluttered.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Tarq posted:

Does Forge Menu Overhaul play nice with Immersive Armors?

It should. Its a tes5edit script you run that will generate a patch for your whole load order.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

QuantumButler posted:

I've been wondering, is there a Skyrim equivalent of the "FengShui" mods from Fallout 3 and New Vegas? They allowed you to accurately place items for spergy decoration purposes and lock them into place, that'd be real helpful in Skyrim, it'd be nice to keep things from flying fifty feet away when Lydia inevitably decides to walk past your carefully arranged mound of cheese.

SkyTweak has spergy item placing controls. Once its in place change its animation to keyframed and it will stay until you pick it up. Build a fort of cheese and fear nothing!

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Inverness posted:

SKSE should have made that possible. I believe I remember reading about one for Oblivion that let you put an item in one container and transfer the enchantment on it to the item in the other container.

Player made enchants are not currently possible, but are slated for the next SKSE release. If its a pre-enchanted item that's doable, but only for base items at the moment. You could give every greybeard robe the mage robe enchant but not restrict it to only the copy of the robe you currently have. I think the next SKSE will change that too but I'm less certain.

If you are happy with changing the base item's enchantment I could whip that up in like 15 minutes tomorrow. Alternately its easy to make a new mod with a duplicate armor with the new enchant using the ck/tesEdit.

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Inverness posted:

It isn't a problem for player-made enchantments since you could just make the enchantment yourself again on the new item. Also, changing the base isn't cool either, so I'm not interested in that.

I'd prefer a way to only deal with the enchantment on particular instances of an item. Though I believe Oblivion solved this problem by creating a clone of the item base for your save and then messing with the enchantment on that so it wouldn't affect other things. Is this working with SKSE?

No. For some reason Beth deleted basically all the code that let that actually work from Skyrim. The TempClone function was readded by SKSE but for practically everything it either returns garbage or crashes the game. They are working on making it work for armor for the next version though. But despite baking tons of things into saves skyrim also deleted the old serialization code so forms can't be added to saves. So tempClones (and all changes to existing forms) vanish after the current play session. This can be worked around with maintenance scripts that recreate them so long as you can keep track of where they are. Papyrus doesn't support dynamically allocated memory so you are limited to a specific number of items that can be tracked based on whatever the mod author decides to support.

It might be a moot point anyway since SKSE will be adding some new ObjectReference functions which might allow for directly changing a specific copy of an item.

Creating a custom patch is easy though and doesn't involve waiting for skse to update.

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LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Kilroy posted:

Where is a good place to learn more about all this? Any good docs? From the sound of it this is the source of a lot of annoying poo poo in the game, like soul gems losing their charge, and certain actions performed in Papyrus either wiping out or fully restoring charge on weapons, items suddenly become "stolen" for no reason, Soul Siphon basically not working, etc.

I hadn't been playing Skyrim for long before I figured out there was something very wrong with the way the executable writes out save files. Too much stuff will change after a save-reload. Some of it they've fixed in patches, but a lot of it is still there.

Are the SKSE team working on this stuff? Is that what the extra save file generated by SKSE is for? If they do end up fixing some of this I don't think 'SKSE' will be the proper nomenclature at that point - it would be a code patch.

I've mostly picked it up from the running into it while making mods. The CK wiki has a lot of info in it but a lot is in odd places. The skse threads talk about a lot of it but mostly in bits and pieces as relevant. Other threads in the beth forum sometimes have very informative bits too. TesEdit and wrye bash threads have some really knowledgeable people in em and the skyproc guy knows a lot of the inner workings too.

I think most of the bugs you mentioned are a related issue and not the form serialization thing. Forms are the base objects, like the generic Iron Sword, ObjectReferences are the actual items in the game world like a specific iron sword on the ground. If you change the base form all items will change, if you change an objectreference only that one will change. But a ref doesn't hold all the details like damage and model its only the stuff specific to that particular sword like its position and tempering level. So you can't actually change its damage since it doesn't actually have a space for that since the engine knows its an iron sword and all iron swords have the same base damage.

The problem is that an ObjectReference only exists while the item is in the game world. When it goes into a container (and character inventories are just gussied up containers) its no longer in the game world. The engine deletes the ref and marks the container as having one of the base form in it. So an inventory is just a list of base forms and how many of them there are. To keep track of stuff like tempering a container has a list of 'extra data' and what base form and it goes with. But there isn't really any object for the tempered sword since the ref was deleted, its just some data in a list. If you drop the sword it will actually make a new one and apply the data to it so it looks like it is the same item.

While an item is in your inventory there is basically no way for the scripts to really work with it. The ref is gone (or broken due to a bug) and the container's extra data list is hidden from the script system. Some commands kinda work and some look like they do but actually don't. Soul Gems are the actually don't part. The soul trap script tries to change the stored soul value on one when you trap a soul, but since the gem has to be in your inventory its commands don't work right (since it only kinda exists in game). It looks like it does but when you drop it the game gets confused and then you get the bug we all know and love. Papyrus and item charge is the same kind of thing.

The save system is its own buggy mess. The morrowwind thread has a good discussion about it a page or two back. Its basically lazy as hell (plus the ObjectReference mess) and Skyrim compounds it with the new script engine. Loading a save in game actually doesn't fully reset the script engine. Its possible to save the game, start a script, load the save, and then have the script finish its stuff.

SKSE hasn't really tried to fix engine bugs as far as I know. It has some features to bypass scripting bugs but they are pretty wary of messing with the inner workings. The cosave just holds some skse papyrus specific things right now like the custom event handler details. They are contemplating putting more in it but are pretty careful about things that could mess up stuff. A big concern is that skyrim will poo poo the bed if they mess too much with its guts and then someone tries to load an skse save without skse installed. Also all the extra save info is lost if someone does that and then saves again.

The skse dll plugin system is probably what they are hoping will solve the engine bug stuff. It lets plugin authors mess with the guts of the game which is what SafeLoad is.

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