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Looking forward to season 4, but after I'm done with this series. Really hated the direction George took after the 3rd book, and frankly not looking forward to Dumbass!Dany, Slutty!Cersei and Dipshit!Jon.
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Jan 18, 2014 14:41
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computer parts posted:2/3 of those have already been covered, and it sounds like you need to reread (either the series or the last two books). Which two? Professor Shark posted:I have faith in the writers and believe that they can take the arguably weaker books, trim the fat, and translate it into good TV. I don't. The problems that the later books have are intrinsic to their structure; a structure which the tv show is clinging to closely for the most part.
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Jan 18, 2014 15:19
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computer parts posted:Dany being a dumbass (Season/Book 2) and Jon being an idiot (pick a chapter/episode). I wouldn't say either have been dumb or idiotic so far, apart from Jon losing the Halfhand when trying to execute Ygritte. They were MUCH worse in ADwD.
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Jan 18, 2014 16:04
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Ungratek posted:Vinnie Jones was slid tackled a child in a pre-match warm up. I think he's hard enough Is that photoshopped?
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Mar 1, 2014 06:21
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People who think ADwD sucked don't think it sucked because of the wait between books; we think it sucked because we think it sucked. In my opinion, it should've been hacked through with a chainsaw. There are loads of examples of weasel words and pointless descriptions that do nothing but slow the story down and waste paper. Then there is the addition of the phrases "Nuncle" and "Must Needs", which George himself admits that his editor kept trying to remove but he repeatedly added in. Then there's the Asha sex scene, which has the distinction of being one of the worst sex scenes I've ever read in a book. I was genuinely surprised when it wasn't nominated for a Bad Sex Award by the Literary Review, although perhaps they don't do genre fiction. George's purple prose has always been a problem but it was harder to ignore in the most recent book because of how badly plotted and paced it was. Quentyn Martell shouldn't have had been a POV character; Jaime shouldn't have been in the book; neither should Cersei for that matter; Areo Hotah should've been cut as well as Melisandre; Tyrion's plot was an exercise in futility; Bran should've actually done something and finally there's Jon. Jon's storyline is loving terrible. It starts off well, with Jon having to navigate between keeping the Watch neutral and not pissing off a dangerous man; then it devolves into absurdity. It starts with it suddenly being revealed that Ned told Jon not to make friends with people which exists solely as an excuse to have Jon be isolated when the Sudden Yet Inevitable Betrayal(tm) occurs. Then it continues with literally every plan Jon makes failing. Are you honestly telling me that the rangers, who have been North of the Wall like a gajillion times are all going to die simply because this time Jon asks them to go? That's ignoring the expedition to Hardhome, which again, really? Jon knows that the previous LC was murdered yet he takes no precautions against meeting the same fate. Then he chains up his loving wolf? Why not just write JON SNOW IS GOING TO DIE in giant 14pt letters George? And those are just some of my problems with the plotting. See the biggest issue with Jon and to a lesser extent Dany and Tyrion is that there is absolutely no sense of urgency to their stories. We don't care about their internal conflicts because those conflicts are ones which have already been addressed in earlier books. Jon has dealt with Duty vs Honour and Duty vs Family; when Jon suffers we don't care because 1) it was telegraphed almost from the beginning of the book and 2) because George introduced prophecy we know that suffering will not be permanent. In other words, Jon's storyline builds up to a twist that has absolutely no effect on the reader because we are given every reason not to give a gently caress. A lot of readers have excused this by saying, oh, ADwD is a work of art, it has themes. Basically every single book, play, tv show, movie, picture, painting and tattoo ever written, drawn or performed with finger puppets has themes. Twilight has themes, 50 Shades of Grey has themes, but that doesn't make the work good, especially when the text shits all over its own themes like ADwD does. There are other issues as well, especially with a lot of the new characters. Look at Joe Abercrombie, whenever he introduces a new character that character might be evil and douche-y, or awkwardly honourable but they're always interesting to read about. George on the other hand introduces a bunch of characters who are boring as all hell. Somehow George managed to make Tyrion suck. There's the lame-rear end introduction of Young Griff, he makes Dany pointlessly indecisive solely so that he can drag the plot out; bad writing, bad pacing, bad plotting, reinforcing of elements that serve only to rip apart the themes the book is built on, utterly boring characters and a story that manages the difficult task of being both horribly padded out and having nothing happen. And, once again, the Asha Greyjoy sex scene.
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Mar 14, 2014 18:00
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PittTheElder posted:Wait, what? Jaime in particular is pretty damned interesting, as is watching Cersei poo poo everything up. Why would you want to cut them? That was in AFFC, ADwD if I remember correctly had one chapter with Jaime where Brienne showed up and for the rest of it he was completely absent. Cersei making GBS threads everything up happened in AFFC, and while I admit I found her chapters interesting I feel like ADwD should've focused more on characters that hadn't had an entire book to themselves. Doltos posted:I respect that you don't like the book but man you're off base. Gonna answer this in pieces. I get all that you've said, but I disagree that he was betrayed because he was trying to balance the old ways with the new. He was betrayed because George had him stick his head in the sand. George had him stick his head in the sand so that he could have his lameass plot twist. George had his lameass plot twist so that he could fulfill his equally lameass prophecy. I can deal with him saying that changing an institution is difficult; my problem is that I don't find the way he chose to show this believable. I don't think it works given what we know about the characters, the world and the history. Not to mention that as I've already said, we feel absolutely nothing as readers when the betrayal happens because it was so blatantly choreographed. And I get that it was explained why he chained up ghost. It was also explained why he made a list of which characters were plotting against him and did nothing. Explanation doesn't make something good. Furthermore, purely from a writing perspective, it would've made much more sense if he'd had Jon fail and Dany succeed or visa versa. We don't need to be told the same thing a billion times over a thousand pages; especially all it amounts to is an insanely boring slog. quote:I agree with his sex scenes, those are usually uncomfortable at best. This I don't get. It is his story, he has the right to write it, I have the right to say it sucks. And yes, editors aren't always right, but in my view his editor was right about this one. quote:As said before, the reason why Tyrion and Dany chapters were slow paced was because he was timing their chapters with the development of the Westeros story lines. If he outpaced one the other would look even worse. I think they only seemed slow and non-urgent because the Westeros chapters are fast paced, sort of. Brienne's meandering journey storyline was way slower than either of theirs. This is just blatantly untrue. You don't need a thousand pages of fluff in order for the reader to think that things are happening at a similar time. You just write a shorter book. quote:And finally, no one is praising him because he has themes. Everyone knows that every story has a theme, that's why they exist. They're praising GRRM because he's sticking to his themes while not becoming overly bloated, a risk that any author takes as his story develops, becomes popular, and increases in word count. Gonna have to disagree with you here, he's making GBS threads on his themes, he is definitely becoming overly bloated. And I wasn't talking about this thread or board specifically, my statement on the themes was mainly directed at things I've read on asoiaf.westeros.org AStrangeDuelist fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 21:24
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Targaryen offspring don't always take the Targaryen silver hair trait, particularly not if they're not incest-born Targaryens. Which should be rather obvious. Some notable Targaryen or Targaryen bastards who weren't Targ-coloured: Aegor Rivers (Bittersteel), Princess Rhaela (she was brown haired and olive skinned like Elia). There's also a few mentioned in 'The Princess And The Queen'. Baelor Breakspear as well. KKKLIP ART posted:So if Jon Snow wargs out at the before he actually dies, and some poo poo brings him back later that outs him in his body again, has he fulfilled his oath to take the black until death and is free to be the true heir to the throne like people speculate he is? Good loving Lord I hope not.
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Mar 19, 2014 22:18
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Notsosubtle posted:Yea. And also, technically speaking, the ruling power can't 'start a rebellion' against its own power. So while Aerys may have overstepped into tyrannical lunacy, his vassals were still obliged to honor their vows. Whether or not their ambitions were 'pure' - whatever that means within feudalism - they still broke their vows and started a rebellion. Vassals are only obliged to honour their vows as far as the King honours his. The King isn't just the guy in charge, he's chief justice and protector of the realm. That means not breaking what little rule of law Westeros has; which he did when he executed Rickard and Brandon, and which he further pissed on when he demanded that Ned and Robert be executed as well.
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Mar 20, 2014 13:04
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pigdog posted:A Jaime/Cersei clip that was shown during some talk show interview. ... Is Cersei loving serious?
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Mar 21, 2014 14:10
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CapnAndy posted:Jesus Christ, GRRM can loving well write when he's on, can't he. Really? I thought it was dumb as gently caress.
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Mar 27, 2014 23:15
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Hra Mormo posted:A couple pages late but this got me thinking, is he really? Tywin I mean. Off the top of my head I don't recall him ever being shown as a particularly savvy military leader. In the rebellion his entire plan is to wait and see who wins. In the books he commands what, Blackwater which is irrelevant because of the input of the Tyrells and Tyrion's stratagem, and that one fight where he basically falls for Robb's ruse and would've lost Casterly Rock as a direct result if not for Theon's treason. A masterful politician is a given, but does he ultimately have any aptitude for warfare? You're underestimating how good of a move retreating to Harrenhall was. It allowed him to be within a few days ride of all the major players. He also sent out the Mountain that Rapes to burn and pillage the Riverlands, something which worked extremely well since it got Robb to disperse his forces which deprived him of several thousand troops (had he kept those forces it's entirely possible that he might've been able to besiege Casterly Rock and at the very least would've been at numbers parity with the Lannisters). He also started building up another army under the command of Ser Stafford for a pincer attack on Robb. His plan only failed because of Robb's warg magic, which since it hasn't been seen in Westeros in a few centuries isn't something he could account for. Now I'm not saying he's a great general. Robb is arguably a better tactician and Tywin's strategems generally aren't very unique, but he is solid and methodical.
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Apr 4, 2014 14:02
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Collateral posted:I think you need to reread it as ball of beasts. Consider it the first book in the second trilogy. ASOS was the climax of the first. It may also help if you skip the iron islands and mereen plot lines. The problem I have with that is that we shouldn't have to skip plotlines or read it a different way from how it was published to enjoy it. Agree with you about Wyman Manderly though.
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Apr 5, 2014 12:09
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