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Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CNN posted:

A passenger flight carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing is missing and would likely have run out of fuel, Malaysia Airlines said Saturday.

"At the moment we have no idea where this aircraft is right now," Malaysia Airlines Vice President of Operations Control Fuad Sharuji said on CNN's "AC360."

Subang Air Traffic Control lost contact with Flight MH370 at about 2:40 a.m. local time (1:40 p.m. ET Friday), Sharuji said.
Quest: Odd to lose contact while cruising Plane loses contact with airline

"We tried to call this aircraft through various means," he said.

The Boeing 777-200 departed Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 12:41 a.m. and was expected to land in Beijing at 6:30 a.m., a 2,300-mile (3,700 kilometer) trip. It was carrying 227 passengers, two of them infants, and 12 crew members, the airline said.
The passengers are of 13 nationalities, the airline said.

At the time of its disappearance, the plane was carrying about 7.5 hours of fuel, Sharuji said.

"Malaysia Airlines is currently working with the authorities who have activated their Search and Rescue team to locate the aircraft," the statement said. The public can call +603 7884 1234 for further information.

Efforts to contact the plane were fruitless.

"We deeply regret that we have lost all contacts" with the jet, said CEO Ahmad Juahari Yahya in a statement.

The airline said in a statement that its representatives were contacting the relatives of those aboard. "Focus of the airline is to work with the emergency responders and authorities and mobilize its full support," it said.

"We're closely monitoring reports on Malaysia flight MH370," Boeing said in a tweet. "Our thoughts are with everyone on board."

"It doesn't sound very good," retired American Airlines Capt. Jim Tilmon told CNN's "AC360." He noted that the route is mostly overland, which means that there would be plenty of antennae, radar and radios to contact the plane.

"I've been trying to come up with every scenario that I could just to explain this away, but I haven't been very successful."

He said the plane is "about as sophisticated as any commercial airplane could possibly be," with an excellent safety record.

There is one recent blemish: An Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 carrying 291 passengers struck a seawall at San Francisco International Airport in July 2013, killing three people and wounding dozens more.

China's state-run Xinhua News Agency reported that Chinese aviation authorities had confirmed that 160 Chinese nationals were aboard the plane, which was lost from radar in airspace controlled by Vietnam.

China's embassy in Malaysia has formed an emergency team headed by the Chinese ambassador to deal with the incident, it said.
Malaysia Airlines operates in Southeast Asia, East Asia, South Asia, the Middle East and on the route between Europe and Australasia.

It has 15 of the Boeing 777-200 planes in its fleet, CNN's Richard Quest reported.

How do you misplace a 777 traveling around the China Sea? Or a 777 in general? I mean the Air France thing was kind of explainable although I was kind of surprised it didn't have better GPS/Sat communication but I would figure China would totally be on that poo poo.



China is now saying they lost radar contact over Vietnam but come on, have we been giving their military way too much credit for years?

Three Olives fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Mar 8, 2014

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Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:911: 4 Americans including 1 infant :911:

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Corkscrew posted:

Air France flight was an Airbus A330 not a 777 hth

Yeah but that was in the middle of nowhere in the ocean out of contact from ground radar, this was over land/the China sea.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gnarlyhotep posted:

somebody turned their drat cellphone on and bam, crash

Probably WiFi on a Kindle.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Taint Reaper posted:

Yeah I'm having trouble finding genuine news stories on this, every one I read has a perspective that's rather slanted.

Aviation/Meth expert Richard Quest is on CNN International right now keeping you updated. Al Jazeera, regular CNN and MSNBC got bored.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gnarlyhotep posted:

take a parachute

Dude you just have to jump right before the plane hits the ground.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:siren: Lost over the China Sea :siren: according to Malaysian Airlines. Come on, get on the game China, I thought you were on your military game.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unhinged Vulcan posted:

Their first aircraft carrier("built" like 2 years ago) was a used hull from an old russian aircraft carrier. They tacked some wooden plants on it, and then painted it. So yeah...

But it is the mighty fearsome Chinese army that is going to attack the US!

CNN's resident meth expert confirming that if it crashed on land we are looking for the plane on land but if it crashed in the water we have to look in the water.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arzakon posted:

And now my wife is freaking out a little because 4 of us (including 1 infant) are flying on a 777 to KL in May. ITS REVERSE US FROM THE FUTURE.

Sorry to tell you this but it was you and your death trapped you in a time warp.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boner Medicine posted:

Some guy on Fox News says it's probably pilot suicide

That seems like a really unfair conclusion to jump to given what terrible drivers Asians are.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gnarlyhotep posted:

shhh he's attempting edgy humor, we need to encourage that

It was a Fox News joke.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Powershift posted:

Why don't planes travel in packs like geese?

like if there are 10 planes going to europe within 20 minutes, why don't they get into a big V, and alternate who leads so they all save fuel and stuff, then when something goes wrong, they can immediately radio in "plane 6 just hosed off into the ocean, better send a boat".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

One of the most horrific plane crashes in history for the passengers. The horizontal stabilizer got hosed and the plane when into a dive and the pilot managed to fly it upside down for around 10 minutes before the stabilizer totally broke and it nose dived into the ocean while other pilots watched.

quote:

At this time, pilots from aircraft flying in the same area reported in, with one SkyWest Airlines pilot saying, "and he's just hit the water," meaning the plane had crashed into the ocean. Another reported, "Yeah sir, he, uh, he, uh, hit the water, he's, uh, down." Everyone on board died when the plane struck the water, and the aircraft was destroyed upon impact.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Vietnam media quote Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat saying military radar recorded #MH370 crashing into sea 153 miles south of Phu Quoc island"

11 hours to confirm a big rear end jet crashed into the ocean from the military?

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JakeP posted:

Three Olives is gay

Yeah but airplanes turn me on too.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So we are approaching day two and they still know absolutely nothing according the the news conference going on right now. They are saying they have yet to find a single piece of debris and the oil slicks are still unconfirmed to be from the plane.

What the gently caress is going on there? Can't they at least easily check to see if it was jet fuel, wouldn't that at least be a little progress?

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hugh Malone posted:

you gonna grab a beer w/ no.6?

I don't believe in meeting creepy people from the internet so it only seems fair not to subject other people to it.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shithouse Dave posted:

I have never see a plane toilet with a seatbelt.

There is such a thing as a belted toilet, they are actually pretty common...

in small private jets. It's kind of like a regular seat but it lifts up and has small chemical toilet underneath for emergencies. And seriously, emergencies, there is at best a small privacy divider.



Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They just wrapped up the latest press conference, first there were two stolen passports, now there are at least 4 and they are reviewing the entire manifest.

All indications point to some sort of catastrophic failure at cruising altitude since there were not even automated messages from the plane so there isn't looking good terrorism wise.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scooter_McCabe posted:

Terrorism is scarier than "3rd world country with 3rd world safety standards suffers its semi-annual airplane disaster" and so why wouldn't a 24 hour news cycle run on speculation lead with the most fear inducing headline?

Malaysia isn't a "3rd world" country, it's a relatively wealthy country and the flight was going from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, two major world economic centers and as had been mentioned a few times in media reports Beijing passport control is extremely strict, it would be incredibly dumb to fly into Beijing on a stolen passport with any intention of getting in, you would probably have better odds getting in the US.

Three Olives fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Mar 9, 2014

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arakan posted:

This is not even close to accurate. First you apply for an entry visa in the country you're coming from at the Chinese embassy. Then your visa is checked by the airline before you board the plane. If you make it into the plane with a valid visa there's no chance you will be rejected in Beijing, unless you're like not the same race as the person whose visa you stole.

sorry for the serious post

I've been to Beijing, save for say Cairo and places like Zimbabwe which basically required a bribe in US dollars it was the biggest pain in the rear end places that I have ever traveled.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AP posted:

Vietnamese authorities searching waters for the missing Boeing 777 jetliner spotted an object Sunday that they suspected was one of the plane's doors, as international intelligence agencies joined the investigation into two passengers who boarded the aircraft with stolen passports.

It has not been confirmed that the plane attempted to turn back.

I thought this was kind of interesting...

AP posted:

A telephone operator on a China-based KLM hotline on Sunday confirmed that "Maraldi" and "Kozel" were both booked to leave Beijing on a KLM flight to Amsterdam on March 8. Maraldi was then to fly to Copenhagen, Denmark, on KLM on March 8, and Kozel to Frankfurt, Germany, on March 8.

She said since the pair booked the tickets through China Southern Airlines, she had no information on where they bought them.

Having onward reservations to Europe from Beijing would have meant the pair, as holders of EU passports, would not have needed visas for China.

Apparently traveling together on stolen passports with two different destinations in the EU.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So this is why the US says the plane flew for 4 more hours and Malaysia was refuting it:

AP posted:

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — A Malaysia Airlines plane sent signals to a satellite for four hours after the aircraft went missing, an indication that it was still flying for hundreds of miles or more, a U.S. official briefed on the search said Thursday.

Six days after the plane with 239 people aboard disappeared, Malaysian authorities expanded their search westward toward India, saying the aircraft may have flown for several hours after its last contact with the ground shortly after takeoff from Kuala Lumpur for Beijing.

A string of previous clues about Flight MH370 have led nowhere.

"MH370 went completely silent over the open ocean," said Malaysia's acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein. "This is a crisis situation. It is a very complex operation, and it is not obviously easy. We are devoting all our energies to the task at hand."

The U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the situation by name, said the Boeing 777-200 wasn't transmitting data to the satellite, but was instead sending out a signal to establish contact.

Boeing offers a satellite service that can receive a stream of data during flight on how the aircraft is functioning and relay the information to the plane's home base. The idea is to provide information before the plane lands on whether maintenance work or repairs are needed.

Malaysia Airlines didn't subscribe to that service, but the plane still had the capability to connect with the satellite and was automatically sending pings, the official said.

"It's like when your cellphone is off but it still sends out a little 'I'm here' message to the cellphone network," the official said. "That's how sometimes they can triangulate your position even though you're not calling because the phone every so often sends out a little bleep. That's sort of what this thing was doing."

The plane had enough fuel to fly about four more hours, the U.S. official said.

Boeing did not comment.

This keeps on getting weirder and weirder.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bobfather posted:

The source seems wrong. I believe that the automated engine reports come in via HF radio, not via satellite. At least, they do for Airbus planes.

This is a Boeing specific service, I assume it's somewhat like car telematics where it comes with the car and even if you aren't subscribed to the service it's still checking in every so often to see if you subscribed.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bobfather posted:

Until there's a real source for that, I have a hard time believing it. If only because the HF radio transmissions themselves are capable of reaching Boeing just fine, and in fact they did right up until they didn't anymore.

The '4 hour' rumor first started as "Boeing got 4 hours of ACARS data after contact was lost", was almost immediately declared false by Boeing, and now has morphed into "no ACARS data received, but we got some satellite pings for 4 hours", but We can't source our source.

When the AP or other major credible US news service says something like this "The U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the situation by name" it is code for this was intentionally leaked by the US government through a credible known high level US source. "authorized by name", that is just the US diplomatically putting their two cents in without getting an official or department involved in a complicated international incident.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bobfather posted:

So 1) why would Boeing lie twice about this? And 2) why would any US official other than someone at Boeing (which is a private, not governmental organization) have anything to say about ACARS data relayed directly to Boeing?

Is this the same Boeing that is the second largest US defense contractor that is routinely involved in highly classified government projects that finds itself in the middle of an international incident involving China and several other major Asian countries?

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rocks posted:

still can't believe they have ships and planes looking for this thing. don't they have HD satellites looking at every expanse of the Earth now? There's literally no way both US and China don't have that technology, why wouldn't they deploy it? Seems like it would use a lot less resources.

I'm still skeptical it crashed, they for sure would've found it by now

The imaging capabilities of US spy satellites are highly classified and it doesn't make it any less of a needle in haystack search.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AP posted:

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — A Malaysian government official says investigators have concluded that one of the pilots or someone else with flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet.

The official, who is involved in the investigation, says no motive has been established, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.
The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive.”

The Boeing 777’s communication with the ground was severed under one hour into a flight March 8 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Malaysian officials have said radar data suggest it may have turned back and crossed back over the Malaysian peninsula westward, after setting out toward the Chinese capital.

"Conclusive" is a mighty strong word when you have no idea when you admit you have no idea where the plane is.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ENSENDA CURES MAIL posted:

press conference about to start stream

Oddly it seems CNN International isn't carrying this live.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looking at the desk, it's been a week, has Malaysia not figured out pool microphones yet? It looks ridiculous.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Al Borland posted:

What a surprise CNN isn't carrying something relatively important. Instead they'd rather talk about dresses.

CNN International is run independently from CNN and is slightly less poo poo as they are a true 24/7 international network.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hofnar posted:

That works just as well at 35,000 or even high 20's for that matter.

I heard an "expert" mention the 45k feet number and I was really amazed, I don't know much about aviation but I know that hypoxia starts well below cruising altitude of commercial jets, any aviation "expert" should have this basic grasp of aviation seeing as if the cabin depressurized they would have to declare and emergency and immediately drastically lower their altitude before the limited supply of emergency oxygen ran out.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pawn 17 posted:

There has been some speculation about the cargo manifest. I'm wondering if there was unlisted cargo worth stealing in midair.

It was apparently carrying a bunch of lithium ion batteries, within the legal limit but more than various authorities believe should be the legal limit.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SteveVizsla posted:

Yep. They kept emphasizing the "all night" part, then slipped in the "ends at 11pm" part. CNN doesn't stay up late on saturday nights. They're also 100% convinced that a pilot is involved.

E: The word absconded is being heavily used

The stupid thing is CNN has a mostly independent network that runs 24/7 programming worldwide from their own studios in Atlanta, New York, London, Abu Dhabi and Hong Kong yet US CNN rarely, rarely cuts to it even in dead hours, only occasionally for major breaking international news until they can get some US anchor on the air that has no clue what is going on. That and it is only barely available in the US, pretty much only in major international business centers despite being almost ubiquitous worldwide.

Three Olives fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Mar 16, 2014

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AP posted:

There are three pieces of evidence that aviation safety experts say make it clear the missing Malaysia Airlines jet was taken over by someone who was knowledgeable about how the plane worked.

"experts"

AP posted:

Thus, the ACARS transmitter continued to send out blips that were recorded by the Inmarsat satellite once an hour for four to five hours after the transponder was turned off. The blips don't contain any messages or data, but the satellite can tell in a very broad way what region the blips are coming from and adjusts the angle of its antenna to be ready to receive message in case the ACARS sends them.

Apparently when someone is an "expert" that means that you don't need to bother fact checking anything they say. Yes, a major geostationary telecommunications satellite serving tens of thousands of clients at a time adjusts the angle of it's antenna to serve a single airplane because it receives a routine ping. And I have a feeling I am majorly low balling tens of thousands, it's probably serving a massive number of low bandwidth intermittent devices from everything between sea buoys and individual cargo containers to ships and airplanes.

Three Olives fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Mar 16, 2014

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

angerbeet posted:

Airplane themed restaurant.

It would be a significant upgrade.


Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You love me .

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005
I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gnarlyhotep posted:

I'm a 3O, not sure if that's bottom or top

Depends on the guy, vers bottom that prefers a vers top but I'm open minded. Ideal is flipping but a good power bottom is fun on occasion.

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