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JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Red posted:

When I was a little kid (in the 80s), Marvel would reprint 3 issues of a classic title into a mini-trade paperback. I got to read a ton of Romita/Lee Spidey this way, and the stories they put together are still fantastic today. I wish they'd bring those back.

Digests! I read the original Silvermane story this way, and it was great :) They'd throw in a bunch of other stuff, too, like Hembeck cartoons.

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JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Marvel seems to really want to connect Spider-Woman with the rest of the Spider titles right now, even though the characters only barely share a name.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
So the chat thread let me know about Axis, which is the next big Marvel event.

Goddamn.

Now, in addition to being BSS' biggest Slingers fan, I'm a Spider-Fan in general. Spidey was, is, and always will be my favourite of the Big Two's characters. He's also Marvel's flagship character. The FF might have kicked off the Marvel Age of Comics, but Spidey defined it.

When Bendis redefined the Avengers to be more of Marvel's version of the JLA, he had me hooked. His reasoning was that "if the Avengers were supposed to be a team made up of Marvel's biggest characters, then where the hell are Wolverine and Spider-Man? Why hasn't anyone done this before, except very briefly in event comics?" So he did it. He made Spidey an Avenger. While you can certainly be critical of the fact that over the course of that storyline Spidey's usual cast got shafted, the interactions between him and the other Avengers were absolutely wonderful. Add in the fact that Bendis and the other writers (even JMS) started treating Spidey as a Big Gun was great. Honestly, Spidey has teamed up with everyone. He's wicked intelligent, if not exactly in the same league as Banner, Stark, and Reed, he can understand what they're driving towards, and even contribute. He's Been everywhere in the Marvel U. And so the writers called on those experiences to make Spider-Man a fully realized and contributing character. Spider-Man matured in those stories, and took on more power and more responsibility. It was great, and everything I wanted from the character.

Of course, then everything went up poo poo creep=k with OMD and OMIT. Spidey had matured too much, someone decided, and the status quo needed to be reset. Reset all the way back to the 60's, because Geoff John's Disease is communicable and airborne, apparently. And so after that trainwreck Spidey was given to Slott, who had his own designs on the character that didn't involve him being an Avenger so much?

Some of this can probably be traced back to the movies, honestly. Well, not so much the movies as the movie rights. Marvel has become more of a movie company than a comic book company now - as well as a story-and-character-IP warehouse, which is why Disney gobbled them up. Marvel has full rights to the Avengers, which is making them a lot of money. Sony has the Spider-Man movie rights, which Marvel probably earns much fewer dollars from. Therefore, why would you want to cross-contaminate the franchise you make a hell of a lot off of with what amounts to a competitor's franchise? Better to remove Spidey from the Avengers and give him his own corner of the Marvel universe, where he can't get in the way of your own movie juggernauts.

(But not THE Juggernaut, because Fox has his rights for now.)

So, one Brand New Day, Big Time, and Dock Ock Mind Swap later, we find ourselves in the present day, and looking at Axis. Why has this pissed me off?

One of the great things about Spidey has always been his rogues gallery. When it comes to iconic enemies, only Batman's come second. (The Flash is third. I'll brook no arguments on this.) Spidey's villains are characters with character. This the problem. Marvel comic event writers want to start using them as Big Bads... but without doing more than just paying lip service to the hero they were created to fight.

Long time BSS readers know how pissed off Dark Reign/Siege made me. Norman Osborn is a Spider-Man villain. Full stop. If you have anybody else but Spider-Man take him down in your summer event comic... why use Norman in the first place? If you're showing off how cool Tony Stark is again, Why not have Obadiah Stane head up HAMMER, or - and I can't believe I only just thought of this right now - Justin Hammer himself? Come on, it's his last name, for crying out loud!

NOW we'll talk Axis. Two of Red Skull's lieutenants are Spider-villains: Carnage and GreenHobgoblin. (Yes, they wanted to use Norman again but had to change at the last minute because Slott screamed MINE!!!! and took his toys home.) We're in an era where Spidey isn't an Avenger anymore because of licensingDoctor Octopus, so he'll get a tie in at best.

In an AVENGERS/X-MEN event where a full third of the baddies are his own goddamn personal enemies. Peter's baddies are just too good to be wasted on Peter, I guess.

drat it, Marvel. I just want everybody to love Spider-Man again :(

Thank you for reading this stupidly long bit of opinion.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Edge & Christian posted:

I mean, I liked Bendis's New Avengers too, but I still don't understand why this "Marvel's Version of the JLA" thing persists. That's never what the Avengers were, and it wasn't what they were when Bendis took over. Sure, he added Wolverine and Spider-Man who are two of Marvel's biggest properties. He also added Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Echo, Sentry, and a bunch of other characters who aren't very big at all. But okay, I'm with you so far, Spider-Man joined the Avengers and that's cool.
You're conflating the better part of a decade of comcis with a lot of moving parts into a MARVEL IS loving SPIDEY thesis. JMS had the reins on Spider-Man from 2001 to 2007, and pretty much ignored any established characters who weren't May or Mary Jane for the length of that. New Avengers didn't even launch until the summer of 2005, so I don't see how there can really be any correlation between "Spider-Man as an Avenger" and "Spider-Man's Supporting Cast Being Neglected".
Also I mean, most of what you're talking about happened before any of this was a concern.
Joe Quesada became editor-in-chief of Marvel in 2000, and wanted to "put the genie back in the bottle" w/r/t Spider-Man more or less from the start.
The first Spider-Man movie came out in 2000 too.
Marvel sued Sony over not being given proper compensation over Spider-Man movies in 2003.
Spider-Man joined the Avengers in 2005.
One More Day was 2007.
The first Marvel Studios movie was 2008.
Disney bought Marvel in 2009.
Spider-Man was "forced out" of the Avengers due to Superior Spider-Man in 2013.
Spider-Man is back on the Avengers as of 2014.

This is an oversimplification and correlation does not equal causation, but you don't even have correlation right now. Dan Slott, as dumb as his run is, is pretty constantly referencing the fact that Spider-Man is an Avenger and tight with the Fantastic Four and Wolverine and Thor and Captain America and Iron Man and all the female superheroes want to sleep with him and he's really pretty rad. In fact, half of the time Spider-Man's villains will punk out the Avengers and Spider-Man has to save the world. Amazingly, Siege is like the one time where Spider-Man needs help to defeat his super badass world-beating hardcore villains, most of the time it's Hulk and Iron Man crawling to Peter's door going "DOC OCK IS JUST TOO MUCH FOR US, SAVE US STUD"

I also don't really see why you're so proprietary over Spider-Man villains either. Did Frank Miller poaching Kingpin for Daredevil piss you off? Is there an Iron Man fan out there who can't believe that he got loving JOBBED OUT LIKE A JOBBER GEEK in Infinity Gauntlet even though he's an Iron Man villain? There are hundreds of issues of Punisher that don't even MENTION Spider-Man.

You're totally right. I wrote most of this right after waking up and learning about Axis for the first time, pre-coffee. I don't have any real supporting evidence for any of it... but dammit if it doesn't feel like I'm on to something. What I need to do is retire the rant until I can research my run-together decade better. That would take time and work, of course, and a much as I like Spidey... :effort:


E&C, why couldn't you let me continue thinking I was smart about comics? :(

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Professor Dog posted:

Is anyone else vaguely grossed out by a costume made out of webbing? Especially organic webbing. I mean, I only own two shirts that have buttons, so I can't really lecture anyone about fashion, but still. The Baxter Building is right around the corner. Get Reed Richards or any kid from the Future Foundation to whip up a proper costume between breakfast and nap-time. Or hit the gift shop even.

Do you ever wear silk shirts?

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Are they really still trying to shoehorn in Jessica Drew in with the Spider-family? It makes no sense!

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

WickedHate posted:

Ultimate Jessica Drew, who is Ultimate Peter's clone.

There's that one, but there's also this one:

quote:

SPIDER-WOMAN #1
DENNIS HOPELESS (W) • GREG LAND (A/C)
VARIANT Cover by MILO MANARA
VARIANT COVER BY SKOTTIE YOUNG
VARIANT COVER BY SIYA OYUM
ROCKET RACCOON & GROOT VARIANT BY TBA
Blank variant ALSO AVAILABLE
New Ongoing Series/Spider-Verse Tie-In! Jessica Drew has been an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., and agent of S.W.O.R.D., an Avenger and so much more. But nothing could prepare her for the multidimensional insanity that is Spider-Verse! A war is brewing, and every spider-character in the multiverse is a target! But being a target is something Jessica Drew just won’t abide. She’s a woman with a mission and with Silk, the newest spider-character on the block at her side, she’ll have to put all her training to the test if she wants to make it out of Spider-Verse alive!
SPIDER-VERSE KICKS OFF A NEW ONGOING SERIES!
• Dennis Hopeless (CABLE & X-FORCE, AVENGERS: ARENA) and Greg Land (UNCANNY X-MEN) bring you a universe spanning adventure starring Jessica Drew Spider-Woman and the newest spider-hero, SILK!
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Senor Candle posted:

Edge of Spider-Verse #2 this weeek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Starring Spider-Gwen!

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
The only Spider-Man to show up in Alex Ross' Secret Wars 2015 promo image is Miles Morales.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Skwirl posted:

Is Amalgam comics Spider-Boy going to be in this?

Funny as that would be, I think DC retained the rights to all the Amalgam characters.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

There better be a spider-verse team-up issue where every spider-prson with a mech team up and combine

"Form feet and legs and legs and legs and legs..."

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Castomira posted:

So does anybody know what the deal is with Noob Saibot on the cover of Team-Up #3?



That could be a Spidey who kept the Dusk costume, or it's a fakeout cover and they'll put the real character in when it actually prints.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Completely unrelated, but are we talking about Spider-Man and the X-Men in here, or in the X-thread?

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
I still don't know why we're treating her as a Spider-Man character, either. She and Pete share a codename and that's about it.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

TwoPair posted:

Seeing that Spider-Punk page with V.E.N.O.M reminded me, does anybody else find it weird that there's not been one Venom/Spider-Man who kept the symbiote in this whole thing yet? I mean, I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of What Ifs, but I feel like there's gotta be at least a story where Peter keeps the symbiote, for better or for worse.
Wasn't there one that the Inheritors kinda passed off as "tainted food"? I want to say in the Edge Of- or Spider-Verse Team-Up books?

JohnnyCanuck fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jan 14, 2015

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

TheJoker138 posted:

I think it was taking place in like, that episode of Angel where luchadors are also actual superheroes in addition to being wrestlers.

El Diablo Robotico!

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Yvonmukluk posted:

Scarlet Spiders #3 Preview.

Looks like Ben came out on top in Dying Wish. Interesting. I mean I know they hinted he'd gone through some of the same stuff 616 Peter did since he took over with the stealth suit thing, but weird to get that much confirmation.

Between that and SpOck apparently the only Superior Spider-Man in the multiverse, does that mean every other Otto that tried that plan failed?

I fear he's not going to last long.

  • The Scarlet Spiders' adventure through SPIDER-VERSE reaches its epic conclusion!
  • With the fates of the Spiders from across the multiverse in their hands, can Kaine, Jessica Drew, and Ben Reilly stop Jennix and his machinations of destruction?!
  • One of the Scarlet Spiders will have to make the ultimate sacrifice!

Hahahaha Ben Reilly can't stay alive in any universe, can he?


:(

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
I just hope this means Spidey can be a Real Actual Avenger in the comics again.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Know who I'd love to have on Spider-Man?

Mike Wieringo :(

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Skwirl posted:

If there's any Tangled Web of Spider-Man grab that.

Agreed. It was an anthology series with some incredible stories in it.

And one absolute dud, I think.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
And hey, if you liked Last Hunt you should probably find The Soul of the Hunter OGN. I always thought it put Pete in a good place about all his trauma.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Codependent Poster posted:

Hopeless has some things that really annoy me. Like last issue when he had an actual female character say they weren't going to be fridged. It was a terrible line and he's super clumsy with his 4th wall poo poo. I wish he would avoid that and just write. I really enjoyed his X-Men Season One graphic novel.

I laughed at the line. It was clever.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Flameingblack posted:

If he didn't have a twitter account most people would just say he's a bad writer and move on, but most of the time he's actively trying to troll certain groups of fans and get a reaction out of them which is why people hate him so much.

So you're saying it's his fault because he's provocatively dressed?

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
In Tales From Spider-Verse, "our" Peter met another Spidey during a lull in the battle, where they tried to figure out where their universes diverged. Only at the end do we see that the one he'd been talking to had a wedding ring on.

That's the Spider-Man we're going to see in Renew Your Vows.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Dreqqus posted:

Best Spidey moment of the day is in Mighty Avengers. You should all read Mighty Avengers.

OH MY GOD

OH MY GOD

OH

MY

GOD

NEXTWAVE IS CANON

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Battle Beasts derail: I recognize the style of the two in the middle, but the ones on the ends... did they remake Battle Beasts and not tell me? Those are super detailed!

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
The last page of Spider-Man and the X-Men was wonderful. I'm sorry to see the book go, but they did end it at a really great point.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

JohnnyCanuck posted:

The last page of Spider-Man and the X-Men was wonderful.

Quoting myself, but can someone find me all the times Peter has gotten to say "Avengers Assemble!"?

Also all the times when it wasn't a joke? (I think there's only one of those)

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
I am enjoying the gangwar story in the Point Ones. It's nice that we're seeing real street-level stuff again.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Regent was going to be DC's Captain Atom, but too many people guessed it so they swapped in Kaine at the last minute and told readers the clues were always there.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Buncha outlets reporting that Miles will be THE ONLY SPIDER-MAN of the "new" Marvel U the past few days.

Somehow I doubt that.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
There's a Thing in Future Imperfect, too.

It's just not Ben.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Pureauthor posted:

Spider Man and the X-Men was sooooo goooood

So agreed. Pete also needs a series where he teaches at Avengers Academy.

...If that's still a thing.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Lurdiak posted:

Letting Aunt May find out was the best thing JMS ever did. I really wish they hadn't retconned that away.

Counterpoint: Aunt May's death during the initial part of the Clone Saga was the best thing they've ever done with the character, even up 'til today.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Please remember: these aren't clones. We're told over and over that they're not clones.

They are, in fact, a made up word that's a synonym for clones.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Lobok posted:

Petercloner!

You can do that with a kit ordered off the internet

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Please don't drag that character through the mud, Slott. I actually liked him, way back in the long ago.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
I'm not thrilled with the Poser-traced art in 2099. I know it makes it easier to crank out an issue, but drat it looks stiff.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Maybe you don't read the main Marvel thread but:

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JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Vince MechMahon posted:

Yeah he misread. I don't think they've revealed where Flash is yet. I do think Brock getting the symbiote back in its current state of being reformed would be interesting. Unlike the murderer who currently has it, Brock would probably listen to reason but still need guidance. It would be a cool new take on the Lethal Protector stuff.

It looks like they're undoing all the reformation the symbiote went through in this bridge series.

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