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Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

404GoonNotFound posted:

Wrong book. That doesn't happen until what, Proven Guilty?

Bracelet melting also happens a lot later than Summer Knight.

Its possible its just residual scars from his upbringing under Justin. We know he pelted things that hurt quite a bit while training Harry to use his shield, its possible he also did things like bind his wrists and made him escape with magic or the like.

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Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Hawkgirl posted:

In Turn Coat Harry even makes fun of Peabody for his lovely German in his book. It's before he reveals himself as a bad guy so it was much more entertaining to read the second time through.

Mostly a pisstake because so many people told Jim he hosed up the German after the fact.

It works so well as a character building scene though. :allears:

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
Well Harry now has two daughters he actually has to deal with which should be good. A little sad Lash is dead, but I'm interested to see what kind of relationship you can have with a spirit of intellect you birthed. Especially when you also have a human daughter you're building a relationship with.

Also Uncle Thomas, Great-Grandfather Ebenezzer... Gah, why is it going to be another year?

Also holy poo poo am I glad Sanya has some backup finally.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

keiran_helcyan posted:

Once the sacrifice was complete, the ghost of the sacrificed person still needed to throw the magic switch. So it needed to be someone who would 100% support you even after you murder them. And left them in Hades for all eternity. There was too much risk a random goon would just give Nic the spectral finger after he offed them.

Plus he was using Dresden. If a random redshirt, or multiple, had tagged along Harry would have thrown down and absolutely derailed the whole thing.

He's also absolutely terrified of something. He threw away a poo poo ton of assets on this mission to collect weapons to 'save the world' as Deidre put it. Considering gis later chat with her in the underworld, perhaps he knows or thinks Judgment day is coming and he's trying to get something to stop it.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Hand Row posted:

So bring a minion and kill him? If they don't do it then kill your daughter.

He knew he was bringing along Dresden for the gate of Ice, and Michael ended up coming to. Bringing a random mook would probably have tipped Harry and Michael off to what was really going on, and both of them have a tendency to say 'gently caress the consequences' if something like that happens.

Plus he's absolutely frightened of something and believes that Deirdre being stuck in Hades' domain will protect her from 'the Adversary'. Now if that's Nemesis, the White God or someone else we have no idea. But something spooked Nick hard and he put a ridiculous number of resources into play for this plan. I figure he's trying to prevent an apocalypse of some kind. And sacrificing his daughter was worth it for both of them.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Travic posted:

Maybe this has already been asked and if so I'm sorry, but why didn't Harry become a paraplegic again temporarily once he put the iron manacles on and lost the Mantle?


He doesn't lose the Mantle when exposed to Iron, it just really hurts him and cuts through his whole pain negation thing. He was stabbed by the little fairies in Cold Days and also didn't lose his ability to walk.

The only time he full out goes parapalegic is when he commits, or is about to commit, some act that fundamentally goes against Winter. He collapsed when he decided to violate the Unseelie Accords (which Mab set up and Winter has a vested interest in).

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Fried Chicken posted:

Supposedly Mother Summer has changed once when the previous one abdicated, but Mother Winter is the original.

Yeah, it seems the further down the totem pole you go the more turnover there is.

We know there have been at least two Queens per court, at least 3 Ladies (though odds are probably more than that since Maeve was only two hundred years old and Mab/Titania have been around for more than a thousand years if the Hastings comment is anything to go by) and then dozens or hundreds of knights.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

When Harry is pierced by iron in Skin Game, he doesn't become paralyzed, whereas when he said "gently caress Winter Law" in Cold Days, he did.

My guess is that saying "gently caress winter law" broke his bargain with Mab in some way and actually undid the prior healing (temporarily). Either way it seems like it's probably an important distinction.

He got stabbed by Lacuna with a nail in Cold Days and didn't get paralyzed then either. Even if it hurt a lot.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

WarLocke posted:

I haven't read any of these comics(?) but in the books his duster has always been brown hasn't it?

No. Its been black canvass and then two seperate black leather coats gifted from Susan and Molly.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Wade Wilson posted:

I just discovered that Jim Butcher apparently wrote a Spider-man novel called The Darkest Hour.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1416594760/iagonet

Has anybody read it?

I enjoyed it well enough. He writes Peter and Harry almost identically, and its a fairly standard Dresdenesque 'tons of poo poo going down at once.'

It also pulls really heavily on the Spider totem stuff and Dr. Strange is a big supporting character. Also the Rhino is an ally and Mary Jane is the real hero of the story.

Zore fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Jul 30, 2014

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
Ugggh, I really want to like the Peter Grant books but Foxglove Summer really didn't help.

The world in the books feels so... small and disjointed. There's all this poo poo going on that nobody has any clue about for decades until suddenly it all pops up. There's no sense of a greater whole or that they're part of a bigger world, every book just sort of jams a new supernatural community/cult in.

I don't know, the series just feels jarring.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
Well, the libriomancer book was weird.

Spoilers I don't know where the gently caress the series goes from here, this was a hell of a change to the status quo. Magic out in the open, Gutenberg dead and all the locks on books destroyed. The book was also disjointed and felt almost rushed or incomplete.

Also the stuff between chapters made the chronology confusing and weird, though I appreciated most of them. The letter Isaac's brother sent him was a great callout and gulping even if there is no reaction in the text. I honestly don't see how you follow up on any of this poo poo.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

effervescible posted:

That's really not much better.

Yeah, to put it in perspective,

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Mars4523 posted:

Harry never goes full on MRA. His chauvinism is more of the low key, insidious kind. That said, he does get proven wrong, and there are a bunch of female characters who are pretty great.

I've been talking about Dresden, Butcher, and the gender politics of the series a while now elsewhere, and I think that the worst thing about the series is that it's written from Harry's point of view. Murphy and Thomas are both points of view who are just as awesome while being less obnoxious as Harry can be.

Of course, that doesn't explain a certain loving Jedi...

Hahahaha, what.

I can see where you're coming from with Murphy, even if I think she'd be a poor viewpoint character for a lot of other reasons, but you think the literal incubus who feeds on women would make the books less obnoxious and better about gender politics. The guy who is supernaturally attractive and has women, against their better judgement, throw themselves at him.

Yeah, I'm sure that'd be great. Jesus, some people way the gently caress oversell Harry's flaws and minimize other people's. Harry is never the popular goon stereotype MRA. He's an idiot, damaged goods, and has some deeply ingrained attitudes that are annoying. But they're also a legitimate character flaw, one totally believable for someone in Harry's circumstances, and end up loving him over until he gets character growth and is forced to deal with them!

Flawed characters are a thing. Having flaws, and either conquering them, or being conquered by them, is basically the basis of dramatic storytelling.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Metal Loaf posted:

Is it? I can't completely remember myself! If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how I thought it went. :shobon:

No, she describes him as a giant, awkward dude who most people think is autistic. He refuses to make eye contact, looks at things that aren't there, is constantly mumbling to himself and pulling out crayons and poo poo to mark things. Oh and he wears a long leather overcoat regardless of weather.

She does mention some stuff about how he's terrifying when he lets loose, but throwing fire and force around with reckless abandon can count for some scary points.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Rumda posted:

Kemmler was WW1

Kemmler was also WW2. Remember, the Wardens took him out a bunch of times because he kept coming back to life.

The final time was definitely post WW2 when Justin took Bob from the ashes of his hideout.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Benny the Snake posted:

So I just finished "Foxglove Summer" and Daniel O'Malley's sequel to "The Rook"-"Stiletto"-isn't comming out for another month and only electronically :smith:

Where are you getting this? Amazon seems to have it releasing in January 2016.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Benny the Snake posted:

I asked my local Barnes and Noble a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, it looks like the release was recently pushed back another six months to next January. :(

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Nemesis Of Moles posted:

What's the dumbest outfit Dresden has ever worn in the books? I'm thinking of doing a HoboDresden cosplay, and outside of fighting in the nude, I remember there was one point in an early book where he's dressed in a terrible dumpy tee-shirt and a pair of raggy sweatpants.

He wore the cheesy dracula costume to Bianca's party.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Benny the Snake posted:

Dead Beat was the point where I stopped reading actually. It was where Harry refused to hit Kumori with his staff, despite the fact that she practically had a fireball ready to chuck at his face, because "she's a girl and I don't hit girls":
Harry's politics towards women, sexual and romantic, is straight-up congnative dissonance. Women are girls to him, yet he has no problem leering at them and he has no more than two gorgeous supernatural entities who want him. He infantalizes women and objectifies them at the same time and that's rather repugnant. But what's worse is that there's no sense of judgement, either--Harry's our hero, and any sort of unfortunate implications or legitimate grievances that may arise from all this is all forgiven because he's the hero, the chosen one, and thus blameless. Philup Marlowe was an rear end in a top hat and Raymond Chandler made no excuses--Harry Dresden is a giant Manchild and Jim Butcher celebrates him. I had a lot of problems with this series, but it was here where I reached my breaking point. I finished this book, but I have yet to pick up another Dresden book. I understand that The Dresden Files is escapist fantasy, but it's the urban fantasy equivilant of Love Hina, and Harry's our Keitaro. Yeah, I said it. :colbert:

Yeah, you can stop reading wherever you like and no one's gonna blame you for it. Some of that stuff is pretty cringeworthy and hard to read. But Harry's issues with women aren't excused as the series goes on, and there is a good portion where he gets his soul flayed for it.

I see where you're coming from, Harry's got some hosed up issues, but I don't agree that the text is supporting him. While he ends fine in Dead Beat, the central conflict and issue of two previous books (Fool Moon and Grave Peril) entirely revolves around his character flaw of infantalizing women. Its how he gets his part-time apprentice killed, Susan vampirized and leads to a ton of people dying to a werewolf and vampires.

Like, Harry gets hosed over by his thing with women a lot until he's forced to actually confront it and deal with it. Its one of the reasons the Turn Coat/Changes/Ghost Story trilogy is great because every aspect of Harry's life gets absolutely shattered, and it happens because of his flaws and hubris. And then he's stuck, dead, trying to figure out how to change

Zore fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 24, 2015

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

bowmore posted:

I meant for new readers

Because that would still take a pretty inordinate amount of time and would probably make about zero dollars. And it would push back his work on all the new books he's writing since he is back to two series.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
It'll be interesting to see if Harry's position as Winter Knight will lead to him being able to use tech more easily. And freak him out.

I could totally see Butcher using that as a source of angst and a way to let Harry actually interact more with the modern world.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Azuth0667 posted:

Is captain Grimm basically supposed to be Harry if he had a flying pirate ship?

He doesn't have anywhere near the problems with authority. Or women.

Grimm is pretty cool tbh.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
I am okay with the lightsaber? I think it works honestly.

He probably will reforge the sword though. And since Butters isn't a katana guy maybe this time it gets turned into a rapier so he can still pretend to have a lightsaber when it glows.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
Or Papa Raith was raping enough women that just playing the odds meant he'd have some kids; and we know he made sure they were physically cared for while they were pregnant at least. Which fits with him being a meglomaniac who wants to control a whole thriving family of Whampires. He is still nigh- immortal and having one or two kids a decade fits with that info and what we see of Inari/ etc.

Thomas probably just thought since he's been with Justine for more than a decade and she never got pregnant she never would. And since he spent a lot of time actively avoiding feeding on people he might just have assumed he was completely infertile. Or that he'd have to try with many women to actually get someone pregnant. It's not the dumbest assumption we've seen characters make in the series.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Scorchy posted:

Stiletto was good, though unevenly paced. I think if he had trimmed out some of Myfanwy's bits and a good chunk of the third act, it would have been a much better package. The new characters are good though, Felicity's awesome and Odette grew on me.

It's not as good as the Rook but the signature farcical bureaucracy and ridiculous violence are still there. I really don't understand how anyone in the Checquy manages to survive past the age of 35.

Yeah, I think the book suffered a lot by making Myfanwy mostly a secondary character but still giving her a good chunk of being the viewpoint character. It sort of carried through some plot threads from The Rook really half-assedly (her encounter with her brother, Checquy interpersonal relations, etc.) but didnt really develop them beyond saying 'yeah this stuff is still going on I guess'.

I feel like there needed to be a cleaner break and just focus on Felicity/Odette with Myfanwy in the background or actually make Myfanwy the main character again and focus on her personal and professional struggles. It just tried to juggle too many things I think.

Still very enjoyable even if I thought it was stupid how hard it went on Grafter super-science and how it was totally real not like the fake magic powers of the Checquy :rolleyes:

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Magres posted:

Butters uses Bob as a power source. They talk about it briefly in Skin Game.

It annoys me that Dresden has largely stopped using potions because, as best I can tell, you can use potions to do drat near anything a spell can (the way I'm reading the wiki page on them they're essentially a spell in a bottle) and after a over a decade of having his otherwise mostly uneventful life punctuated by sweeping catastrophes, you'd think Dresden would learn to have a rainy day fund of a whole shitload of "just in case" potions.

Half the time he's griping about having no cases and being bored when a book starts. Get your rear end down in your lab and make some potions for when Mab shows up for the favors you owe her you nincompoop! Consumable items you can just manufacture are ludicrously powerful because you can more or less siphon off your excess magic into little bottles and save them for when you need them.

Yeah, that's exactly why he no longer uses potions. And also why the bear belt that gave him a full-night sleep never showed up again.

They were part of the ridiculously formularic part of early Dresden (Here, let me go down to my lab and make exactly two potions that I will use in really fitting circumstance) and robbed a lot of narrative tension. I'm pretty sure Butcher's said on the record if he could re-write the early books he'd leave out the potion-making entirely.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

A. Beaverhausen posted:

About that, *late Skin Games spoilers* I really hated how Lasch was demoted to just a villian. With how we last saw her before Skin Games we had a Denarian that actually did something really cool. I understand it was because she was in Harry's head for so long, I just wish Jim had done something else with her.

Well... Lash and Lasciel were very different entities by the end. Lash had been changed and is dead, having her sacrifice rendered meaningless would undermine a huge theme of the books. Plus we saw the result of her legacy in her daughter.

Lasciel was always a villain and is behaving exactly how I would expect her to considering Harry ultimately rid himself of her shadow. She didn't get the character development, her dead twin did.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

anilEhilated posted:

I'm not sure. I always felt that the most important point Dracula was making was something about the virtues of Victorian morality.
The UF definition is problematic as well - I mean, if all you go for is "it takes place in the current era and has supernatural elements", you're among other things including just about every bit of horror written in the last 200 years.

I mean, UF is basically a supernatural horror offshoot. And most of them have horror and horror tropes deeply ingrained in their very fabric.

The biggest difference is that the protagonist has the ability to win when they fight the supernatural.

In that sense, Dracula would count but something like Frankenstein would not.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

ImpAtom posted:

If you managed to block the goddamn Earth Pokemon making people horny thing out of your memory than more power to you.

That wasn't really part of any of the romances though?

Like that was a weird detail, but it didn't really play into any of them and mostly seemed to be a 'clever' way to foreshadow Tavi's strategy at the end of the book.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Blasphemeral posted:

One of the big ones from when I was on there is that Mab is actually (and has been all along) Molly after time travel shenanigans. As in, not just that sentence, but an entire dissertation-level essay write-up.

I don't know what new poo poo they're injecting into their arteries these days, I never look back.

I liked it back before White Night when the big theory was that Cowl and Kumori were future Harry and Molly. Or that the Gatekeeper was future-Harry. Or the Merlin was future-Harry. Or Mac was future-Harry. They had a thing for basically everyone being future-Harry time travelling. It was kinda fun.

I uh, stopped reading when that one person poo poo up everything after Changes because Harry and Murphy kissed and it torpedoed their Harry/Molly hardcore shipping.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

docbeard posted:

He's also the kind of dude who could be talked into understanding that he's not up to this particular challenge, especially if it's veteran parents Michael and Charity Carpenter doing the talking.

Though yeah, I'd bet the ink isn't exactly dry on the school's charter. It being something organized by the Paranet/whatever's left of the Fellowship of St. Giles/etc. would make a certain amount of sense.

Yeah, and we've seen a ton of young adult supernaturals running around in the series. Changelings, Vampires, the various flavors of werewolves, paranetters... starting a fairly 'normal' school that caters to that community wouldn't really be out of the question. Especially since everyone's freaking out about the Formor picking people off, I can see them wanting to pool their children under mutual protection.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

I can't think of a scenario where any form of critter would want their child anywhere near Harry Dresden, or his kid. Can you imagine how many fire drills they'd have every year? I hope Jim's next Dresden universe book series isn't some YA stuff, or White Court, or something like that.

Finished up Skin Game. One thing that kind of made me wonder was when Michael commented that a Hecate statue had a face that looked like Molly's. Did it always look like her, or did it change when she did? It is a shame that the book didn't have a better payoff on the heist elements or the finale, because it had a fair share of fun moments and dialogue.

Its definitely implied to have changed when Molly took the Mantle. Harry notices it first and kinda freaks out a little internally and tries to distract Michael from it

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Azuth0667 posted:

I dont think they have the same creepy rape vibe the white court does.

Re-read the early books, they were really rapey with people getting hooked on their drug-saliva and prostituting themselves for it.

Red was basically just as bad as the White court, they just got people physically addicted to being their slaves instead of mentally doing it.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Aerdan posted:

Remember that Harry's talked about the importance of names several times early on in the series, most prominently when he's calling on supernatural critters.

Yeah, let's not forget summoning Mother Winter. He actually hurt her, and he was mostly guessing some of her names.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Wizchine posted:

I don't recall that kind of thing going on in the Codex Alera series, but I could be wrong.

It doesn't happen as much in Alera (though it does happen quite a bit), and Cinder Spires is better as well.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Dienes posted:

I absolutely loved The Rook and just started Stiletto. It looks like the sequel follows Felicity and Odette pretty much exclusively. Will we get any chapters from Myf's perspective?

Yeah, there are a few from her perspective though she's mostly a supporting character with a larger than average subplot.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
I just feel like the world in the Rivers of London books is incredibly disjointed. Like the world feels super tiny and it feels really artificial as the series went on and he just kept adding ridiculous numbers of hidden things Nightengale just... ignored for 60 years I guess?

Like I get he was traumatized, but jesus christ you think he might have noticed all the goddamn magicians running around before Peter showed up.

I dunno why, but it just bugs the crap out of me.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's weird to me that people don't like Peter Grant. He's an absent minded nerd trying to make good, who's finally found something he's good at. He's not a jerk, he's not particularly obnoxious, he's a bit goony sometimes but to nowhere near the extent that Dresden is.

He's okay, but the magical world around him feels like it crumples under any degree of scrutiny while the actual London parts are very real. Which makes it unfortunate the books largely deal with the magical stuff tbh.

Sort of a reverse Dresden in that sense :v:

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Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

Seems like there's a short list of cities for UF. London, New York, and Chicago. Sometimes Paris, sometimes Vegas. I'd kind of like to read some UF set somewhere different, like Moscow, or Beijing, or something, by someone that knew the culture and the cities.

I'm surprised more UF authors don't just make a city up. It seems like a lot of work to research a city and you'll still probably gently caress it up unless you've lived there or know someone that has.

A lot of them do, its just usually lumped in with standard fantasy instead of UF in yhat case. Like if we extend the definition to include non-real world settings you could probably add a bunch of stuff like Mistborn, Pedido St. Station etc.

Adding fictional cities to earth has also largely fallen out of vogue.

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