Pycckuu posted:I never did such a thing. quote:People are lovely towards the gypsies because gypsies steal. If you want to change the way you are treated by others, stop stealing their poo poo.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:43
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Pycckuu posted:I don't understand what you are trying to say here. quote:Racism is undoubtedly bad, and I'm glad that American goons who only see minorities on TV and think Roma are mythical creatures similar to the elves are here to set the record straight and explain the real cause for these ethnic tensions in a region thousands of miles away. I sure am glad a proud anti-ziganist is talking about race.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:The exact same thing as Israel? No, not at all. They'd be doing the exact same thing as ISIS. Hmm, no, I don't think Hamas would be attempting to establish a neo-Caliphate if they had the resources of a developed nation, you loving idiot.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:55
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My Imaginary GF posted:Its not a what-if. You must bash the fash no matter how 'anti-colonialist' they claim to be. Agreed, Likud must be destroyed.
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Nov 19, 2014 00:10
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The Insect Court posted:Yeah, exactly. Hence our agreement as to how that's like the Agreed. Aileen Wuornos's trial was a homophobic hatchet job.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:44
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who howl about "reverse racism" and the "race card" in every discussion touching on the subject of racism
The Insect Court posted:What's going on here is what goes on in pretty much every I/P thread. For example, in the last big I/P thread I kind of clocked out when the discussion moved onto how young Jewish settlers in the West Bank could be before it was no longer morally permissible to kill them. To be fair there were a range of opinion, but there was a very vocal contingent who took the position that even the infants could be slaughtered by Palestinian freedom fighters and they'd still all have it coming. Now, could a hypothetical disinterested party possibly attempt make the case that such a position might in fact not be motivated wholly by high-minded objections to Israeli government policy? Without endorsing that analysis I would humbly submit that it should not be instantly met with shrieking about Zionist persecution and should at least be considered. Agreed. People calling the expulsion of the Sioux from the Black Hills wrong are in favor of white genocide.
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Nov 19, 2014 13:10
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Friendly Tumour posted:So what's the anti-israeli side's take on killing rabbis in synagogues with meat cleavers? Native Americans killed a number of people in retaliation for whites attacking them, or to try and drive whites away from settling in their land. Does that change that their land was stolen or the rest of the long, shameful history of America's relationship with the people who already lived in places we wanted?
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Nov 19, 2014 16:58
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CommieGIR posted:Slightly off topic, but from our good friends at Dry Bones comics: No. 03 would be "Reform Jews" and No. 04 would be "Beta Israelis", I presume.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:24
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Friendly Tumour posted:I don't think moral condemnations of one or the other side of this conflict provide us with any new insights or create interesting discussions. Are new insights possible, or interesting discussions?
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Nov 19, 2014 17:48
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Friendly Tumour posted:Well I don't know, but one surefire way to ensure that none arise is to keep banging the "Israeli is the baddie here" drum until the thread gets locked again Thing is, there aren't many moderates. If you aren't pro-Palestinian, you either don't care or are pro-Israeli 99% of the time, which limits discussion, because pro-Israel correlates strongly with believing Palestinians are plotting genocide. And the situation is basically static.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:00
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Friendly Tumour posted:All of this is definately true, but then what hope is there for a peaceful conclusion of this war? As for the onus being up the Israeli butt... Which side would you say made the most important acts during the struggle of Indian independence? Granted, it was a wholly different kind of conflict, albeit with atrocities of similar magnitude on both the side of the oppressor and the oppressed. And yet, the oppressors, the British, couldn't hold back against the tide of history or were unwilling or incapable of committing the level of brutality that holding on to the Indian Empire would have required. The two situations really aren't very comparable for a variety of reasons.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:16
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The idea that this tragedy was a tactical action aimed at liberating Palestine seems improbable, unless you think Palestine is a totalitarian state.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:45
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My Imaginary GF posted:because there are no good solutions to the I/P conflict, so its a matter of promoting the least-worst policies and living with their results. There are good solutions, actually.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to American policy, and will be prevented by force when necessary. American policy is not eternal, and American interests and businesses are too diverse for the US to do anything without impeding on them in some way, so the correct answer is to go gently caress yourself.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:10
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What's interesting is that people are automatically disclaiming that Israel wants peace. Not universally, but nobody assumes that settlers attacking Palestinians are trying to make peace or talks about how this moves things away from peace. This only really makes sense if you believe that Israel is completely hostile to peace or the idea of it.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:17
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down with slavery posted:Yes, god forbid we allow genocide to happen. Instead, let's genocide the Palestinians until they can't genocide back. Surely this is a winning strategy. Doflamingo posted:Our government of the last several years has definitely done everything in its power to make sure that peace isn't an option. I don't think our generation will ever see peace here barring some freak, history changing occurrence. I'm talking more about a rhetorical shift. People are (not universally) abandoning the idea that Israel wants peace, which is probably not all that positive in the long run, more realistic though it be.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:20
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JeffersonClay posted:http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...d-hanged-382106 That doesn't say that they planned it, duder, and Hamas is pretty weak in the West Bank. But it's the Jerusalem Post, where the cartoons talk about how criticizing the government makes you a phony Jew.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:42
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JeffersonClay posted:You didn't ask whether Hamas planned it, you asked whether it was a tactical action designed to end the occupation. Hamas claims it was, and calls for more of the same. And jeez, you could have googled the quote and seen it in 50 other publications rather than just asserting it's Hasbara. No they didn't. That's a lie/gigantic misinterpretation, plain and simple. They are calling for people to fight back, but that's in line with their strategy of repeatedly provoking Israel into cracking down on Palestine and overextending themselves to the point of collapse, and their goal of discrediting Fatah. And I'm pretty sure that the Moonie Times prints actual news too, but they're still owned by a psychotic cultist.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:51
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JeffersonClay posted:1) This is a quote from a Hamas spokesman that was broadcast on Hamas' TV channel. Seriously, google the quote if you doubt its veracity. Hamas claims that this was done because people are mad about the occupation, and specifically because of the recent murder of a Palestinian. Not that this is a grand plan to drive the Israelis out. Not to mention that Hamas did not order the attack, and is not composed of telepaths, so this is their assertion. I said why Hamas calling for more attacks is in line with their stated strategy, and it's not because they believe these attacks will bring about peace. EDIT: In fact, this specific phrasing is traceable only to the Jerusalem Post, so either they're the only ones who bothered to use Hamas's statement, or they translated it specifically in line with their implicit claim that this was a planned attack. Effectronica fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 21:07
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The Insect Court posted:Yeah, why would anybody think that the usual suspects are justifying terrorist violence against Israeli civilians? Is collective punishment justified?
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Nov 19, 2014 21:35
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The Insect Court posted:I think I see. What you seem to be saying is that what's behind the hatred is the belief that instead of people holding a wide and diverse range of opinions on a variety of issues, Jewish Israelis are a sort of monolithic hivemind definitely exclusively by their persecution of the Palestinians? And that they all bear collective guilt for the crimes committed against Palestinians, and so all Jewish Israelis should be held "accountable" and the only question is what degree of accountability should be meted out(boycott, international court, rockets, hatchets, etc.) Was the recent occurrence in that synagogue in Jerusalem an example of accountability(even if a somewhat overzealous one)? I asked you a question, which you deliberately ignored. Were you too busy raping and dismembering a homeless man to bother?
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Nov 19, 2014 23:03
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I don't understand why everyone is assuming that the attackers did this out of some Machiavellian scheme rather than the same process which drives random outbursts of violence like workplace shootings. Most of the discussion revolves around this as a tactic, rather than as a spontaneous horror. Why are we accepting the Israeli framing so uncritically?
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Nov 20, 2014 14:09
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emanresu tnuocca posted:For the same reason hate crimes are usually motivated by racist ideologies etc, for the same reason we consider the Abu Khdeir murder to be a hate crime with nationalist motivations. Workplace shootings almost always have a motivation too. Most 'random' violence is done for a reason. However, that doesn't mean that the attackers sat down and deliberated over how they could best support the liberation of Palestine before deciding on attacking a synagogue. That is where most of the discussion seems to be coming from, and it's eerily similar to the justifications Israel is making for collective punishment.
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Nov 20, 2014 15:37
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My Imaginary GF posted:Palestinians want Israeli territory. Most Israelis want Palestinian militants gone from their borders. For the Palestinians, the issue is about land. For Israelis, the issue is about people. The opposite reading is true. Absurd Alhazred posted:I guess "too many" is a subjective term, because it's clearly not the Arab League, Organization of Islamic State, or most of Europe, as all of them have been consistently for a Two-State solution, which includes a sovereign Israel. Oh goddamit now he's gonna ejaculate about the mighty Jordanian Army all over this thread.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:23
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Baloogan posted:No I just chose not to respond to name calling, you jerk. You actually believe that morality doesn't play a part in government policy? Have you ever met anybody who was elected to a statewide office, let alone a national one? There's a good reason why Kissinger never ran for any office and the sort of certified wheezy-voiced nerds who talk at length about political realism are confined to think tanks and eagerly wishing they were part of a think tank.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:02
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The Insect Court posted:I wasn't sure before, but you seem determined to convince us that your loathing of Israel is just a sort of Freudian projection. Accusing another poster of being a coward for pointing out your unwilling to confront Finnish complicity with Israel kind of seals it. I know harsh introspection can be painful D.C., but you need to come to terms with reality even if it means discarding the delusions you've built up to minimize cognitive dissonance. Is collective punishment justifiable or not, Mr. Zorin? Don't wait for the translation.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:14
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The Insect Court posted:Interesting. So you obviously don't support BDS, given your liberal stance on trade with Israel. Did you at least have the decency to pay for the hospital bills after you spread your wife's nose across her face and shattered her jawbone?
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Nov 21, 2014 03:15
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Xander77 posted:Just out of curiosity, would you smilie face at any other country your people hate? You have an actual reason to hate, let's say... Russia. Would that be a smilie face occasion? Just out of curiosity, why is it that people believe that hatred of Slavs is nonexistent today? Have you never heard a Polish joke, or seen people baying for Russian blood? Why doesn't saying Japan is "creepy" bring down tedious narcissists like The Insect Court? Only in the case of Israel does detesting a country's policies mean hatred of an entire ethno-religious group.
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Nov 21, 2014 14:03
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Xander77 posted:One of my hyphens is in fact "Russian", so... yeah. (To be honest, I have heard a great deal about Russophobia - from Putin-jugend types) It's not disingenuous. If someone writes or talks about how they hate ISIS (an avowedly Muslim state), nobody assumes they want to kill all Muslims. If someone writes that they wish the US had nuked Japan more, we mark them down as racist (outside of SomethingAwful, at least) but don't assume they go around murdering Japanese-Americans or burning crosses on their lawns. This is something that only happens with Israel, and it's transparent why. First of all, the Israeli right wants to guarantee that nobody will dare interfere with them, and making any dissension anti-Semitic is the best way to do so, along with Israel's nuclear arsenal. Secondarily, it also helps bury the simple fact that Israel only recognizes Orthodox Judaism as legitimate and denies full legitimacy to other religious traditions.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:27
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Xander77 posted:I'm going to agree with this one? This will almost certainly fall on deaf ears, but did you know that the American invasion of Iraq brought much more anger than the Russian invasion of Ukraine? People with liberal or left-wing values generally are much more offended by ostensibly liberal nations that engage in brutally illiberal behavior. Consider how this might apply to Israel, and consider why people would be angrier at a supposedly tolerant, modern liberal democracy bombarding hospitals with white phosphorus than a police state doing the same thing.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:32
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Xander77 posted:Go outside and talk to people? Be stupid enough to actually engage taxi/bus drivers in conversation? Hmm, I don't think I'm going to engage in the criminal practice of looking at post history, especially when you're doing the thing you're accusing me of. You also ignored the other response I made.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:52
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I honestly and truly believe those 47 Senators, from Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz to John "Bomb Iran" McCain follow MIGF's insanity of preferring a non-existent Iran to a nuclear Iran. You think Jeb "My last name is Bush" Bush or Scott "Tea Party Darling" Walker are gonna hold off on preemptively and heroically leading us into another quagmire if the American people get as stupid as they were in 2004? You think the Republicans learned anything since the Bush years? Of course they didn't! Why would they?! THEY'RE STILL IN POWER. AND SO IS NETANYAHU. Chill out.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:02
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hakimashou posted:Palestinians aren't subhumans, they don't have any less dignity than Israelis or Americans or anyone else. This is why Kuwait is the 19th province of Iraq.
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Mar 28, 2015 16:54
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hakimashou posted:Kuwait had powerful allies, the Arabs who fought israel didn't. France had more powerful allies than Germany in ww2. Just happens to be how things work. Kuwait lost a war with Iraq. The strong ate the weak. Then the rest of the world decided to go against the natural order, and spewed a bunch of bullshit about how invasions and annexations are wrong. As a consequence, the USA has bled itself over and over again in the Middle East for its sins against nature.
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Mar 28, 2015 16:59
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hakimashou posted:Martyring their children deliberately so that their powerless sympathizers sympathize with them more is not, in my view, a good outcome. It's a big reason I dislike Hamas so much. Those dastardly civil rights activists, putting their children in the way of dogs and fire hoses and bombs.
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Mar 28, 2015 17:05
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hakimashou posted:The natural order isn't countries in a vacuum. It's me and my friends vs you and your friends. If the US didn't want its "friend" in Kuwait to get gobbled up, it should have defended Kuwait instead of wringing its hands and crying after the fact and leading a teary invasion of Iraq in response.
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Mar 28, 2015 17:10
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hakimashou posted:Maybe so, but instead it was the other way. The US defied the natural order of things, again and again, by not annexing Iraq both times that we have invaded it. As a consequence, until we fully commit ourselves to world conquest and an orgy of bloodshed, we will continue to suffer and die around the world.
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Mar 28, 2015 17:21
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Kim Jong Il posted:It is why Transnistra, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Crimea are de facto part of Russia. It's a good thing I didn't say any kind of absolute about how the world worked, then.
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Mar 28, 2015 18:14
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DarkCrawler posted:How many of those countries exclude part of Germans, or part of Spanish, etc? Jews are not the only native people to Israel, which renders this excuse moot. Multi-ethnic immigrant countries don't have just sanguinis ethnic immigration laws, hence when it happens with places like South Africa, Australia...or Israel, its apartheid. When a random Russian Jew has greater immigration rights then an Arab refugee who was actually born in Israel and can trace their descent back to several millennia, you can't hand-wave that by naming countries with single dominant ethnicity that also accepts several other ethnicities under their umbrella. I could get to Germany and become a German citizen, and a German national. There is no Israeli nationality because Israel is an apartheid state which by its own laws reserves nationality only for Jews. Arab Israelis are poo poo out of luck Jus sanguinis only applies to citizens, not ethnicities. Somali immigrants to Ireland that gain Irish citizenship have equal participation in the jus sanguinis law. So it doesn't apply for completely different reasons.
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Apr 8, 2015 05:35
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No nation with the capacity for bombing has bothered to consider the moral impropriety of murdering civilians with collateral damage. The only real restrictions are the possibility of hypocritical enforcement of the laws and customs of war, and pragmatic concerns.
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May 1, 2015 04:20
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