The Android Thread - He;pl - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > The Android Thread - He;pl

«‹›5 »

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Good rapid charter wall wart? gents?

# ¿ Feb 25, 2016 01:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 12, 2024 01:35

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

repiv posted:

For Quick Charge 2.0/3.0? Anything implementing that has to be approved by Qualcomm so it's hard to buy a bad one.

idk whichever one my bad to the bone + rear end nexus 6p supprts

# ¿ Feb 25, 2016 02:09

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

It is loving amazing to me that here we are, how many years after the iPhone, and then the Nexus program started and it became unbelievably apparent how loving fail the carriers and the bullshit schlock they foist upon their customers is. How garbage their phones are. How they and their OEM partners pile unremovable shovelware, nickle&dime fees, spyware, and vulnerabilities in all of their products. Years and years have gone by and every singe carrier/OEM phone has become unsupported trash within minutes of purchase. And yet, in every iteration of the Android thread we have some unbelievable loving idiots advocating buying literal garbage like the Z3C or whatever Droid TurboMax verizon is shilling. These handsets have been garbage from the outset. The simple fact is there are 2 phones you are allowed to buy every year: the newest and most murdered our iPhone, or the newest and most murdered out Nexus. Everything else will turn into buggy insecure toxic waste the minute it leaves the showroom.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 19:11

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

ijii posted:

The amount of vitriol against Samsung here is a bit over the top. I went from a flip phone to a Galaxy Note 2 on Tmobile. No matter how much crap Tmobile and Samsung put on their phones or how fast they drop support, it's still 100x better than my previous flip phone. I know the majority of people at work are in the same boat. I've seen many of my fellow poor coworkers from three years ago tell me "Wow, that's a big rear end phone," while they show me their flip phone, to... showing me their newer galaxy notes or Galaxy Ss over the years. I've never heard them complain about touchwiz or lack of updates.

I keep thinking of finally buying a note 6 this fall, but I don't really have a good reason to since my Note 2 still does plenty fine. I try to understand some of the hate here, but I just don't get it.

haha yea buddy. Last year I was pounding my balls into the pavement daily with an electrified jackhammer. That was P deece, but ultimately I'm really loving stoked to simply gargle this hydrochloric acid. Sure, you say, for the same price you can get your cock sucked and jizz on some titties but shucks some deadly acid in my ol' esophagus aint bad. Hell, It's loving awesome!

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 04:06

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

bull3964 posted:

Sorry, no. I OWN a Nexus but it is not my primary phone. There's still a feature gap there on Nexus devices that needs plugged. They aren't for everyone. I wouldn't be satisfied with a N6p or 5x as my daily driver the same way as my MXP.

They are good phones to be sure, but if I'd I would have wanted one, I would have bought one.

Your needs are incorrect, and your epic use of "daily driver" dbz instant transmissions you directly into the FuckTard gulag.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 04:07

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Captain Yossarian posted:

The Droid Turbo is a loving fantastic phone though? I mean yeah Verizon sucks, but Verizon isn't a phone

It gets software patches from the maximum fail combo of Verizon and Moto. It's outdated instantly. It's insecure and comes with a bad skin. It's junk.

CLAM DOWN posted:

I'm gonna get an S7 Edge and I hope it causes at least one person itt to combust

You're going to get a piece of junk with bad software an an unbelievably ugly OEM skin; and hopefully an rear end kicking.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 04:17

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Rastor posted:

Samsung did actually fix the ugly OEM skin issue though, by making the phone themeable. You can make it look almost like a stock Nexus or you can make it look like horrible ugly poo poo from the worst of the XDA modding community.

The notification pane isn't even close to good. Not only is it the most important part of the phone ui or whatever, but the pulldown quick links are the second most important. Here's how it is on a NExus phone:

Not even close in terms of quality.

Please excuse the wifi name, my bae named it.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 10:21

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Rastor posted:

I guess Samsung and LG style notification quick toggles don't drive me into a white hot rage. Sorry?

Not raged, they're just flatly inferior.

Desk Lamp posted:

My subjective preference is objectively better than your subjective preference okay?

It's not subjective.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 10:34

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Harveygod posted:

Ads aren't even strictly bad. No one complains about a Nestea banner on a webpage. But malware-injecting gross-out popups that float over content and drain data/battery are why people get adblockers.

This is extremely insightful. Wow!

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 19:11

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

go3 posted:

looks like I'll be rocking my HTC One M7 until the battery dies

"Rock" that steaming POS into the dumpster.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 19:11

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

LastInLine posted:

You should never disable Bluetooth, NFC, or GPS. Wifi maybe if you have some weird network topography you're exposed to like a lovely AP at work that you sometimes need to connect to but doesn't cover your area well but on the whole you should never disable that either. If you have working autobrightness then you don't need to adjust it and if you find you need to adjust it then you don't have working autobrightness.

As Grumpwagon accurately said, the fact that the toggles are there at all is encouragement to use them and the fact is you shouldn't be using them.

Epic thissery.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 20:10

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

*gets huge bullhorn out of back of pickup truck in best buy parking lot* PEOPLE OF ANDROID! STOP JANITORING YOUR PHONE! STOP TOLERATING OUTDATED AND BUGGY SOFTWARE! MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE AND DUMP THOSE WORTHLESS PILES OF SILICON INTO THE PURGING FIRES OF INDIAS RARE EARTH METAL RECLAMATION JUNK YARDS AND GET A PHONE THAT FOLLOWS OUR LORD SUNDAR'S VISION! HE KNOWS BEST! HE'S SMARTER, LEANER, AND BALDER THAN YOU! TRUST IN SUNDAR!
:worship:

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 20:14

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Grumpwagon posted:

I want to acknowledge that at least for me this is mostly true. The differences between, say, that picture of the G2's out of box notification screen is way different than say, this:

That's a big improvement, but as for "So what is there, really, to complain about in TouchWiz?" I think I mentioned in my first post at least 2 reasons.

1) Having Quick Toggles visible on the second most important screen of Android suggests to a user that they should be used. This is what leads people to toggle WiFi, NFC and Bluetooth. One of the most important principles of design is that you should subtly suggest to a user how a device should be used. Toggling stuff like that on and off is very much a thing normal Android users have been trained to do by having the settings so readily available (I'm basing this on people coming in to the thread who aren't regulars, and the user testing I've done at work). The notification screen space is among the most valuable resources on the phone now since you can perform actions on notifications. Having 1/4 of that taken up rather than 1/2 is a huge step forward, but less is still better.

My only point about all this is, after a long time of being in the woods on this, I believe Android finally understands good design. I think every change that Samsung makes to go away from good design (I'm sure there are changes they make that are just as well designed or better, I just can't think of any at the moment) are bad on their face, and they make it harder to update.

Which brings us to:

2) With monthly security updates being a thing now, updates should matter, even to normal users. I'm not suggesting normal users should know about and demand their monthly security updates, I'm suggesting vendors should care about user data and experience enough to make that a priority. Samsung clearly doesn't. You could argue that Google doesn't either, since they hoover in as much user data as possible, but I'd suggest that is wrong. They jealously secure their user data, since that's their real purpose behind the Android project.

I know that these two things are likely never coming up when normal people use Android. I completely acknowledge that noticing and valuing these things makes people in this thread spergy or turbo nerds or whatever. I reject on it's face the suggestion that these things don't matter to normal users, even if they don't consciously think about them ever. Security and good design are important on a device people use constantly and where they store their life, and should be called out when deficient.

Does this mean everyone who buys a Samsung device is a moron like some people in the thread say? No, life is full of tradeoffs. After writing two huge effort posts about this, I should disclose that my daily driver is an LG G2, and I like it. I bought it knowing the downsides (I won't go back into that whole decision, read back my history in this thread if you really care about it for some reason). However, does this mean that everyone who brings up problems with TouchWiz is a moron? No, of course not, for the reasons discussed above and others.

Pretty drat diplomatic but if I had my way I'd just post :thurman:

or:

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 20:18

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

His point is that Android should be designed such... that you don't know how to use your phone?

Anyone who says that quick toggles and autobrightness controls never have a use, ever, clearly never leave their basement.

The OS handles all of this for you. I work in theatre so I turn down the brightness when I'm backstage or in the booth, and use the slider - does that mean I want the slider clogging up 20% of the most valuable real estate on the phone 24/7? Of course not.

I don't janitor WiFi, location, BT, or any of that ever - Instead I trust on my (most up-to-date, fully patched) OS to manage that for me, and it does.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 20:21

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

When I'm in bed at night and reading my phone, I turn my brightness (and thus, adaptive brightness tolerance) down. When I'm in direct sunlight, I turn it up so I can see it better. If I'm out somewhere where I keep getting bombarded with lovely "connect to wifi " notifications when I will turn it off until I'm back home. If I'm not using NFC I'll turn NFC off because obviously. Quick toggles also contain the torch function, which is... like, useful and stuff to turn on and off? And you'd want to turn airplane mode on or off?

"Never use quick toggles" is so stupid to me it boggles my loving mind

Remember, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

The OS will manage all those quick toggles for you, you don't need to manage them all day. This is literally what the phone OS is for.

Regarding your in-bed use - it takes literally .5 seconds to tab over to the deeper menu to get to the brightness slider. You're trading in like 20% of the notification pane for a slider that you use once per day, and is "buried" under a single tap. That's not a good trade.

Not a single word of my post was ironic or "shitposting." Sundar and the Android team have a vision for how their OS is to be used, and they literally know better than you about it. If you use the device as intended you will be cared for and your experience will be improved. Stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and find happiness in your life.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 20:28

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

The phone magically knows when I want the flashlight or airplane mode on or off? Cool beans. How is it, living in the year 2050 with sentient AI on your telephone?

I don't turn airplane mode on unless I'm on an airplane. Which isn't every day.

quote:

Two finger scroll down > gear icon > scroll to display > brightness level > keep doing this if I decide "eh, could be a little brighter/darker" up to five times or so

On a Nexus phone, the pane with the toggles is just a farther pull, or double-pull down on the shade. No clicking gears or whatever you need to do on whatever broken OEM skin you're accustomed to.

quote:

Oh gosh you're right how convenient that is! Except no, that's terrible, and I will gladly give up a tiny bit of screen real estate for the convenience of "two fingers, there it is". It's almost like people are different and like their phones to do different things but nah this is the Android thread and that's crazy.

Christ, why don't you all have iPhones?

I don't really understand what you're saying here. I have an Android phone because it's the best mobile operating system and I use all their web apps at home and at work.

quote:

"Tap icon to turn off GPS when I don't need it" is not "micromanaging every single sub system".

it is.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 20:51

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

Nexus phones have a gear icon and quick toggles as well.

quote:

Might as well, you clearly just want something that just werks instead of an actual useful tool that you can customize to your individual needs. "Our Lord Sundar's vision"? loving really?

Yes, it's good to have things that work. Especially something I literally rely on.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 21:25

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

I use a Moto G, which is the same stock Android. I know what I'm talking about.

You don't need to menu dive to get to the brightness slider. It's on a second pull down. The quick toggles are also there. I have no idea what you're getting at when you insinuate that it's an inconvenience to get to them. Certainly not buried so deep that it's preferable to clog up the main pane with "quick toggles" that are marginally (seriously marginally) "quicker" than just pulling it down twice.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 21:34

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

I'm saying it doesn't loving matter and that guy (and you, apparently) was all for removing them entirely, which is patently ridiculous.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 21:38

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

You're confused. I'm saying that notification panes that have this horse poo poo on them:

CLAM DOWN posted:

BeastOfExmoor posted:

is bad. It's useless, points users towards bad behavior, and is ugly.

There is no case for when what I posted above is better than bog-standard stock Android. The OEM adding this software makes the phone worse.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 21:43

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

You're confused again. There are 2 matters you're confused about :

1) Those toggles are behind a single swipe. Not "buried" or behind a "gear" or anything. A single swipe.

2) You should rarely be interacting with these in the first place. The OS will turn them on and off as needed without your intervention, and the phone will work better as a result.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 21:45

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

^ and my point is that that's what you'd have to do to change screen brightness if you had no quick toggles at all.

Looks fine to me. How does requiring another swipe (something very natural to do) "point users towards bad behavior" even less?

And I still say that it's certainly not 'bad behavior' to toggle poo poo you do and don't want. It's part of what makes Android so powerful and such a great mobile OS! The ability to customize and tell the phone to do what you want it to do, instead of having Steve Jobs tell you how to use your phone from beyond the grave! If somebody wants to turn off NFC or GPS, why do you care? Why is that bad?

It's not worse, or better, just different. It takes up no real extra screen estate, too, and if that quarter inch actually impacts you in a meaningful way then you have too many notifications. Clear those fuckers out.

Users obsessively janitoring stuff like WiFi and Location Settings results in them having a worse experience, which as an Android evangelist is bad to me. The OS silently uses all this stuff in concert to provide a best-in-class experience.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 21:56

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

Okay I cannot continue this discussion without saying some really rude things so I guess I'm bowing out. Later.

Cool post.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 22:17

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

CLAM DOWN posted:

lmao right after the quick toggles shitstorm in this thread

I like the looks of the notification cards!

the buttons in that screenshot are infinitely better than the heap of ugly loving garbage seen

here:

BeastOfExmoor posted:

This is what my G4 looks like after about 30 seconds of configuring:

That said, at one point I managed to get it looking like this after I first had it, so the ability to ruin things does exist.

and here:

RVProfootballer posted:

lol come on, don't defend this garbage (though LG is worse than Samsung). This is what an LG G2 looked like when you turned it on:

Definitely only horrible for nerds with 20 notifications, not literally unable to display more than 2 notifications!

Also I thought Samsung was supposed to have made a bunch of progress in their aesthetic design, but here's an S5 vs. an S6 (randomly googled images, so no idea if this is old software versions [just kidding, of course they're on old software]):

lmao. look at that loving trash. it's ok if you like it, but it's insanely ugly and thats proof positive that you have literally no taste. not that thats a bad thing, but it is reality.

its actually good timing, as it further cements the fact that google does everything oems do, but better. the oems shovel poorly designed, ill conceived garbage onto an otherwise good as hell OS.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 00:34

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

it is incomprehensible to me, that there are, in this thread, living breathing humans who are aware of Android, the Nexus program, and UI/UX in general who still go out and pollute their lives with that low quality rubbish. a nice tortured metaphor would be like if you had the option to eat some p deece food or a bucket of poisoned lard, and you just chose the lard and then posted about how good it is.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 00:37

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Those OEM toggles are not only ugly, but they're bigger than Xbox and situated on prime ui real estate.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 02:33

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

What the hell kind of demonic Stockholm syndrome has pwned the denizens of this thread? Holy poo poo

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 02:34

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

SpelledBackwards posted:

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you?

I'm seriously asking.

Sent from my Blackberry

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 02:40

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

hahahaha

Newsflash: nobody cares

Google doesn't care

Real human beings with jobs and friends don't care

I think it's freaking amazing that you got so hostile and abusive as to insinuate that I can't find gainful employment nor have friends because I have the temerity to have a strong opinion contrary to yours about consumer electronics. You must be a really cool dude lol

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 06:05

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Rastor posted:

No you see, Nexus phones are the correct phones, if you purchase a Samsung phone it means you are "not be able to tell when things are ugly" and you deserve "an rear end kicking."

Sounds like you're coming around. There's hope for this place yet.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 19:12

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Daily Forecast posted:

You're the one talking about how people 'pollute their lives' as if anyone has ever legit suffered or had worse lives from buying a Samsung smartphone. I'm just calling you out on your stupid poo poo, is all.

That commercial is legit hilarious and I think it might have convinced me to get an S7.

It's not stupid to advocate for people to well designed, secure, and best in class hardware and software on a device they not only carry on them 24/7, but interact with hundreds if not thousands of times per day.

The only "stupid poo poo" is pushing people onto devices that suck and will ultimately detract from their quality of life.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 19:38

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Lblitzer posted:

95% of people don't give a poo poo about anything "well designed" in terms of Android. They only care that Snapchat and Facebook are able to be front and center on their home screen and that's about it.

Which is why we, the informed technocrats of the SA forums should do our best to point them in the right direction instead of sending them down Fail Road on the dilapidated OEM greyhound.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 19:58

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

CLAM DOWN posted:

Just give up dude

I'm going to turn this tepid little flame on its head and suggest that you give up, and accept the simple reality that all these OEM handsets aren't worth the rare earth metals we sucked out of the ground to make them.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 19:59

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Lblitzer posted:

Every single device has some sort of compromise so no matter what somebody gets there will be somebody else bitching about it. So, the end.

Compromise of an OEM phone: no patches, insecure, doesnt ever get updates, doesn't get cool new features added to android, comes with carrier and oem bloatware and ugly theming.

Nexus: Limited in software and hardware so that they work well with eachother. The Software is literally designed for this hardware, so there is some lack in diversity.

CLAM DOWN posted:

counterpoint: the S7 rules, mate

It's garbage with bad software that will be abandoned by an OEM that doesn't give a single poo poo about its users.

Daily Forecast posted:

Nexus devices have all sorts of hardware issues and compromises (no SD slot, battery is difficult to replace, 5X is a laggy piece of poo poo, 6P is too big) even though the software is good, and Samsung phones are the other way around. It's just a matter of priorities, and, again, who gives a poo poo

Tangent: if a phone is a bit slower to get security updates, uh, so? It's not like Russia is trying to steal your hacker secrets. You're way more vulnerable to actually physically losing your phone, which is an issue no matter what phone you have.

This laundry list of insanely IYG poo poo is meaningless if you use Android as intended with a quality handset. The SD slot is meaningless with Play Music and Photos spinning all your stuff to and from the cloud. The battery on a quality handset lasts years until the phone needs to be retired naturally. (e.g. my Nexus 4 battery lasted all day with normal use from when I bought it when it was released, until I retired it for a Nexus 6P years later). Regarding "who gives a poo poo": It's OK to give a poo poo about a device you use every day, many times a day. It's a nontrivial part of your life and some care and consideration are not out of order.

Regarding your tangent: Security is a top priority on any smartphone. It has all your accounts, personal data, and private details. Security and software vulnerabilities are not "shruggable"

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 21:10

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Folks, I am emboldened and empowered by the virtue of truth. I draw from the font of purity and shall never be dissuaded from my quest to correct the ills of this thread. I have defeated countless hordes of Android detractors in my home forum of YOSPOS and this thread is no different. The light shall shine upon you and your total conversion to my clean and righteous understanding will enrich your life and purify your eternal soul.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 21:14

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Desk Lamp posted:

Yes those poor souls suffering with their working Bluetooth and group mms. Never knowing the joys of banging their phone against the desk to fix a busted power button or scrounging ebay to fix their busted micro USB port yet again the way best in class hardware was meant to be experienced. They'll never know the premium software experience of having your phone reboot when you use the camera shortcut or feel that ultimate Nexus fluidity as the Nexus 6P chugs along on its throttled cores. It's up to you to make sure they get the correct phone.

No phone is perfect dude, your zealous insistence that Nexus phones somehow provide an objectively superior experience is ridiculous.

I use my phone as intended and don't have any of the problems above, nor have I ever.

On the scale of perfection, we have OEM/Carrier phones way, way down the slider.To frame it on a spectrum we understand, the autism spectrum, where more problems is more autistic, an OEM/Carrier phone would definitely be in Rainman territory.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 21:49

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

WattsvilleBlues posted:

So would this be a good microSD card for my Samsung Galaxy S7 when it arrives?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00Q4X8OTQ?colid=3O7E0029IPRNE&coliid=I3EATZZQ8LXSSO&psc=1&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

I know microSD cards don't perform the best but I'd like one that's not complete shite.

Act before it's too late. Return that POS and get a Nexus phone before it metastasizes!

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 22:33

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

TollTheHounds posted:

No one claimed the 5X was the best on the market, but everyone claims universally that "Nexus is the best". Look at all of the recent posts about "Nexus" - occasionally someone specifies "Nexus 6P" but it's always - "Nexus phones this" "Nexus line that", always in the context of "the nexus line being the best bet for a pure android experience/long term support". Right now, I can sum up my first "pure android experience" on my "Nexus line hardware" in one word: unstable. The fact that I can have a supported unstable device ( potentially ) for the next 18 months is really not much of a "bonus".

Whether that is some sort of inherent design flaw either with Marshmallow or with an app(s) designed for Lollipop bugging out with the 5X hardware ( maybe I wouldn't have this problem with a 6P but again - I don't have some crazy sideloaded apps running on here, it's all pretty basic poo poo ), I don't know. Maybe it's just bad luck.

Maybe, this is what I get for being an early adopter on the bleeding edge of the OS updates, maybe the "nexus experience" of paying to beta test an OS and hardware is not for me. Certainly if I had just waited until this time instead of being impatient, I wouldn't have bought a 5X ( or a 6P because I don't like the size, the 810, and the bending weak spot - trivial as those are ) and would be looking at something else.

I just think it's disingenuous to praise "the nexus line" as essentially infallible, when that doesn't appear to be the case.

Fair point.

The Nexus line of phones is epic, mostly flawless, and best-in-class. Look pal, if you're going to be bodyslamming your phone or suplexing it, or installing dangerous hacker software on your innocent phone then you accept all responsibility. Don't come crying to us when your perfect phone starts to buckle and break under the weight of your brutality.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 02:47

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

grack posted:

My G4 is awesome. It is awesomer because it has a removable battery, removable storage and grip tape, and I wouldn't trade it for either of the current Nexus devices.

Mods? Can we get rid of this loving troll?

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 03:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 12, 2024 01:35

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Valeyard posted:

One minute you are groping virtual titties, and then the snapdragon heater kicks in and blinds you

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 03:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > The Android Thread - He;pl

«‹›5 »