Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Pope Guilty posted:

Lots of words about Status

Status was the bread and butter of the game I ran (also boons). We did the same thing with status; you had cards that you carried for your types of status, that stayed in your character folder with your stuff, and at least for our group of about 40 it worked well.

As far as the announcements, it's not too much of a big deal IMO. It's like pronouncing someone guilty or innocent. 'I am an Enforcer of this court, my weapons are permitted under Camarilla law' or 'As the Authority of the Camarilla in this domain...',. and such.

I get the YMMV part, but it's not bad in and of itself.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 10, 2019

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

That Old Tree posted:

That basically only just happened, so not yet.

They're not even going to sell the last two books at retail, that were ready to go to print. (But they will fulfill the preorders.)

The Cam and Anarch books that were ordered by retailers are being sent to the retailers, per Modiphius distribution email a couple of weeks ago when distro started.
At current there are no plans for a second print run, so what's printed is what's printed. They've also said the PDFs will still be sold in an email to a couple of members of the community.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Feb 14, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Nessus posted:

I think "selling" here is being parsed as "additional opportunities to purchase," as opposed to "delivering goods contracted and paid for." In other words, the interpretation is that these PDFs will go on DTRPG or something, as opposed to being sent to various backers

Modiphius' email stated that the PDFs will still be sold, assumably through their site.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Warthur posted:

Game mechanically I see a lot of people griping about the hunger system - specifically, the way it seems to obligate you to spend a substantial amount of game time on diversions paying attention to feeding and hunger management. The general feeling seems to be that in past editions the amount of attention you paid to the actual vampire-ing bit of being a vampire was a dial you could adjust depending on how much grotty street-level feeding action you wanted vs. how much high-stakes vampire politics with the feeding mostly offscreen you wanted, and people who take that approach to Vampire seem to think that the new system takes away their capacity to adjust that dial. Not sure how true that is, but that's the complaint I've seen.

Eh. Feeding is as intrusive or not as you want it. The feeding section in the book starts out with 'if you need it to be quick, roll these most common combos of stuff, slake hunger based on the chart based on how long you spend doing so, and go on'. I've been running V5 since September, and we have feeding every other session just about, and we do it as more of the 'PCs getting prepped for the evening,' and it doesn't take any extra time (and adds to the players' narrative, because they have aspects of their characters tied to herds or the way they feed). A lot of the people who bitch about it seem to be bitching about the concept of 'my hunger can effect my actions' because of Hunger dice and not realizing they have options to mitigate that, like the autosuccess/take half rule or willpower to reroll dice.

TheKingslayer posted:

I just started reading the V5 books and a few likes and dislikes.

I like the whole deal of trying to take the elder vampires less out of the game and leaving a power vacuum to an extent. Especially the little tidbit about finding lost hordes in estates left behind by those same elders.

I find the entire fate of the Tremere chantry in Austria to be dumb as poo poo. Drone strikes and special forces hit squads. The Tremere as I think about them would have taken some bad losses but for sure not been so thoroughly owned. On the other hand I don't dislike the changes to how the clan operates or their clan flaw.

I'm also into the Sabbat being more in the shadows instead of it's own very clear regional power.

There are implications in BJD and some text in the V5 core that it was an inside job, partially by Karl Schreckt, to take out the Worm!SauloTremere thing.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Max Wilco posted:

I don't know what it is exactly, but right now, GeekandSundry is doing a Vampire RP thing on their Twitch channel.

https://www.twitch.tv/geekandsundry

It took me a minute to realize that two of the actors are supposed to be Nines Rodriguez and Therese Voerrman from the Bloodlines game.

Jason Carl has been running a V5 game, LA by Night for... a while now, I think since last October? Four Anarchs in LA. WIth a bunch of different guest 'players/actors' for different parts, like a Werewolf at one point.

Different Bloodlines characters have shown up and such, since he considers Bloodlines heavily canon. The first season is up on youtube.

First episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyQtOghqwA&t=5s

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 16, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

TheKingslayer posted:

I've finished reading through the Core and Anarch books for V5 and I'm honestly enjoying it all as far the story goes. I really enjoy the turn with Theo Bell and Ventrue big wigs eating poo poo out of nowhere.

The Anarch book is especially fun because they explore a lot of things I didn't really expect them to and even have a vampire reporter still trying to do her thing.

I know it's been mentioned but there is a lead up lore book for all this, right?

Beckett's Jyhad Diary sets up some things (like the Tremere and the potential inside job of the prime chantry being bombed), but BJD is essentially the 'bridge,' setting up plot points here and there, particularly the Book of the Grave War.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Rand Brittain posted:

V5 basically threw Beckett out the window to do a lot of less interesting stuff, but you should read Beckett anyway because it's good, and I wish somebody would do an F&F who actually has enough WoD trivia knowledge to catch all the references.

V5 is expanding on all of that (surprise surprise!), since they stated the core book was meant to be more accessible to new people without having to know X from Y past books. It's ramping up the more stuff that's coming out. Give it time.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Rand Brittain posted:

The previous administration said something like that and I didn't believe them, since V5 made a whole lot of Beckett moot.

The current administration (whoever that actually is) may be more interested in following up on V20.

Not... really? LIterally V20 is done, and everything that's coming out is building on various material talked about in V5 core, such as the Hecata, blood cults, and such. BJD hasn't had a lot of its material touched on, but there are some things (and recall, BJD isn't just 'this is happening in the 14 years between Revised and V5, it's all over the place timeline wise). But in particular, things like the Sabbat/Gehenna Crusade has been touched on, the changes to the Setites as the Ministry are coming directly out of aspects of BJD's presentation, the conflict between the necromantic clans is literally spun out of that lead in from BJD, the Tremere conflict grew out of BJD (with attendant implications that Schreckt was involved in what happened to Fortschritt). Not everything has been touched on, but a number of things have. They do have more books they can write, after all.

Chicago has a weirdness because 'OH GOD WE HAVE TO USE THE METHUSELAHS!' but it even references things, with various NPC deaths, referencing heavily what the gently caress is going on in the Gehenna Crusade as the impetus for half the Lasombra to try to join the Camarilla, and talking about the Beckoning (like, Helena did a task and was released from the Beckoning, for example).

I get that people who hate V5 want to go back to V20, but it's not happening.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Feb 21, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Sion posted:

Quick question about V5: Is there anything anywhere about how the world squared the Gehenna circle or did the end of the world just not really happen?

To give you a better answer, V5 ignores the (already entirely optional) Gehenna scenarios as presented in the Gehenna novel and the Gehenna book. Everything up to the end of Revised still happened, and V5 then advances the timeline 14 years from 2004 through 2018 (mostly ignoring V20 as well). It posits a different take on Gehenna, in the vein of the cyclical Gehenna mentioned more in 1e and 2e, that the Antes rise, change happens and then thins continue rather than the world ending. But nothing is concrete yet, and everything is meant to be more build up at this point in time, metaplot wise. The Gehenna Crusade that the Sabbat is waging is a direct result of the Antediluvians rising and calling their Childer to them through the Beckoning.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Sion posted:

I didn't realise that V20 did stuff to the metaplot. I just thought it was a sort of greatest hits album.

V20 didn't add things to the metaplot per se, but there were setting developments that seem to have been ignored, or at least not mentioned in any meaningful way.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

nofather posted:

Technically yeah the v20 core book didn't, but the v20 supplements added stuff to the metaplot, and there's a whole bunch of those. The v20 Companion, Children of the Revolution, Hunters Hunted 2, Anarchs Unbound, Rites of Blood, Dread Names/Red List, Lore of the Clans, the Black Hand, Lore of the Bloodlines, Beckett's Jyhad Diary (which summarizes the biggest metaplot events). And they're still making more.

Looks like Victorian Mage 20th is going to be a thing, too.

Yeah, but all those added setting, not metaplot. BJD, which was officially the 'bridge' to V5, was the only one that actually touched on plots that had come up before and created new plots for the timeline. VtM's metaplot is more about the advancing timeline than setting elements, and V20 was (admittedly by OPP) meant to be metaplot agnostic, rather than 'this is set between book X7 and book Y4' type of deal.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Octavo posted:

If we might deviate from Beast-chat, has there been any word from Modiphius about the WoD properties they're managing? I heard rumors that they might be revising V5, but that's it.

Since I didn't see anyone answer you...

* Modiphius has stated in an email that they have no plans to rewrite the Cam and Anarch books. And nothing has been mentioned about doing any revising anything (which is highly unlikely).
* They are working on four pieces of material: Fall of London Chronicle, Second Inquisition, Player's Guide and V5 Starter set.
* They are working with their upper management to get the ability to actually sell the PDFs of Cam/Anarch since WW/Paradox mandated that they wouldn't be sold and all physical copies would be on sale until out of stock.

But the V5 haters will continue to think what they want and spread direct misinformation, so whatevs.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Rand Brittain posted:

I mean, if the correction is that they're doing their level best to convince their bosses that some of the most important books for the line shouldn't be sent down the memory hole, maybe the truth is still pretty bad?

Eh. The books are fine, particularly now that the Chechnya section of Cam was removed and replaced with other cities and material. Paradox's mandate of 'don't sell these' is pretty weird in all honesty.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

That Old Tree posted:

Because of the sale going on, I'm thinking of getting a physical copy of Mage 20 for my friend for his birthday, and all my DTRPG physical purchases have been adequate at worst, but I'm still really dubious about how much life there might be in a 700-page bludgeon. Anyone gotten any of the various really gigantic PoD books that can chime in about their quality?

A buddy of mine has M20, the spine glue cracked away pretty quickly, like after a month or so from what we've seen.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

gourdcaptain posted:

...he's still writing on Vampire?

Bloodlines 2 has been in the works since before WW was mandated to not write any more books in house. What he's talking about would have been discussions and materials in the past two years. And what he's talking about 'designed the Thin Bloods' he's talking about the design of the Thin Bloods as even worse second-class citizens than they were for the V5 core. Chill.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Oberst posted:

Mage sucks and is boring. When does Chicago by night come out?

Scheduled for a November release, but may be sooner.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

NikkolasKing posted:

Aren't the Lasombra to the Sabbat what the Ventrue are to the Camarilla and the Sabbat is all about venerating Caine?


Also, sorry for a new topic/question but a few weeks ago in a different WoD thread elsewhere somebody said something to the effect of "sure oWoD had some problems in its worldbuilding but at least it HAD worldbuilding unlike nWoD." And presently there is a thread over on White Wolf's subreddit about why Requiem is less popular than Masquerade with most responses basically being "it's a toolbox." From what I can gather that means you just play it and make up whatever the hell you want. Perhaps you can compare it to the difference between Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate; both set in Forgoten Realms but you play the former just to play it and have fun while the latter is more story and character intensive.

But, judging from what I've read of the Covenants in VtR as well as the huge Mage debate that was going on and was primarily centered on nMage, I don't see how Chronicles of Darkness is lacking a metaplot or worldbuilding?

There's a difference between backstory/world building and metaplot which is what a lot of people tend to focus on for OWoD.

Metaplot is more represented by hard facts verified in the setting, and advancing plotlines through books. So Book A would be mentioned and built upon by Book B, and Book Z would then invalidate all that with the TRUE HISTORY of something, and characters (and many NPCs were) could be knowledgeable about the underpinnings of the setting. OWoD was designed with a lot of 'hard fact' history and advancement on that hard fact history, things interwoven in a complex web of connections. There was a lot of implied 'this is the one way that it is'.

NWoD, when it came out, gave you a backstory and history (some of which was more allusions and never 'And Joe Ventrue did X, and James Mekhet did Y' like OWoD often did), but never had that advancing metaplot. It set the story, and then gave you plenty of options and ways the ST can use that history to create their own options, but was never the above interwoven 'book Z tells the TRUE HISTORY of book B' setup.

A lot of people disliked this because it didn't explicitly detail out every aspect of the setting for NWoD in the same manner that OWoD did. Requiem 1e, for example, didn't have a flat 'this is how vampires came about' method, and had many various takes on it from various groups' world view, which is different than the almost universally-accepted Caine myth from OWoD and how much of vampire society accepts that.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

TheNamedSavior posted:

Excuse me, but what was the news about Vampire 5th Edition again? I remember they seemed to fire most of the stupid writers, and then they pulled the crappy Camarilla sourcebooks, and they were going to rewrite and release new stuff that hopefully isn't alt-right garbage?

I can't remember much else from that. Does anyone know what's coming next for the line? All I recall is the new Chicago By Night edition.

The Cam book had the offending section removed and replaced with additional city writeups and has been released since like January.

No one got fired either. WW is not writing anything in house (they moved up the timeline of that, and also mandated that WW wouldn't write the core books, which was the only thing they were going to do in house anyway); they're now wholly controlled within Paradox rather than function as an autonomous subsidiary, and they just handle the brand management, approval of pitches, etc. like that.

Dawkins has said the Fall of London book (which he's developing) will have both the chronicle and be a general London sourcebook.
Starter Kit is a kit with introductory rules, pregens, a scenario, maps, handouts, booklets, etc. in the vein of the D&D Starter Kit.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

NikkolasKing posted:

You sure about that? I could swear people were complaining about not getting their PDF's over on WW Subreddit mere days ago.

It's why I didn't get the book. Well, one reason.

The physical copy has been released and been shipping. I got my PDFs without issue after showing Modiphius my preorder proof, and have gotten my physical books a while ago. And many game stores have reported having them. Unlike CofD stuff, Modiphius and WW did a traditional print run on these books so it's not like it's just a PDF release.
Apparently after they started shipping WW started enforcing the 'don't sell the PDF' mandate. I couldn't say why they also stopped Modiphius from giving people the PDFs from their phsyical books.
Either way it doesn't matter at this point; they've stated that the PDFs will be available in the next couple of weeks in emails to multiple of us who have asked about them. Both sales of the PDFs and the the PDF redemptions. So at least they got WW to pull back ont he mandate.

EDIT 5/8/29: They're now on sale and up for redemption on Modiphius' site.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 23:45 on May 8, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

TheNamedSavior posted:

Really? I swore I read something about swedracula or whatever his loving dumb face was, getting fired. Did I misinterpret something?

You shouldn't believe everything you read. No one has been stated as being fired or let go from WW, they're just being overseen as a full subsidiary of Paradox (so contingent oversight) rather than autonomously working on Paradox's dime.

Dawgstar posted:

Since Ericsson's got some involvement in Bloodlines 2 and if it's a big hit I dread to think it might absolve his past sins. (Which he would them promptly commit again.)

His 'involvement' would have been during the period when BL2 was being pitched and developed side by side with V5 (so two years ago), since BL2 has been stated to be V5 lore compliant by working with WW. WW isn't actively doing anything other than brand management at this point. Stop freaking out.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 01:57 on May 10, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Omnicrom posted:

Anne Rice's vampire Jesus wept. Good lord that sounds like an utter clusterfuck.

What is the status of White Wolf now? Last I followed WoD was when Onyx Path shat out Beast which is its own kettle of fish, and I heard that Paradox eventually picked up the IP, but looking back I realize I've never 100% been sure the progression and differences between WW to OP. What does Paradox own of the World of Darkness IP? Is it just the oWoD stuff?

Paradox owns the entire World of Darkness IP, that includes both WoD and ChroD.
White Wolf is the brand management arm used to license that IP. They are wholly owned by Paradox now, and approve/veto plans and provide the bibles that the various writing has to be done in.
They currently are licensing to companies that pitch:
* Modiphius has what could be considered the 'primary license' for WoD tabletop, due to their distribution channels and ability to do full print runs. They're currently selling the V5 core, Cam and Anarch books (both in physical and PDF, as WW just lifted the mandate to not sell those books and has allowed the books to go back into print under Modiphius' control) and have 4 more books in development.
* Onyx Path Productions licenses both ChroD and WoD. They have 2 books in development for V5, and whatever they're developing for ChroD right now.
* Hardsuit Labs has licensed a video game to create Bloodlines 2.
* Big Bad Wolf has just licensed a Vampire 'narrative RPG' game that was just announced.
* A couple of other companies have licensed 2 different VtM boardgames

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Omnicrom posted:

Thank you, that clears up a lot.

You're welcome. I did forget to add:
* White Wolf was originally going to be writing only the core books in house to serve as 'bibles' for everything else, and license everything else. It looks like now they'll maintain the bibles separate from RPG books, and people can pitch for the various other core books.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Warthur posted:

That said, looking at the Monday Meeting Notes it looks like Onyx Path is working on a stack of V5 material, so it looks like Modiphius turned straight around and sublicenced OPP to get those books done. Whether that accounts for everything Modiphius intend to do or not is another question.

They have their own license, not working with/under Modiphius.

As far as 'stacks' of V5 material? The Chicago Folio/Dossier and Streets Run Red are all part of their Chicago by Night Kickstarter campaign, and Cults of the Blood Gods was announced.
So two books and some PDF materials to supplement one.
I wouldn't call that 'stacks' of V5 material in any stretch.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Rand Brittain posted:

It looks like the revised Camarilla and Anarch books went quietly back up on DTRPG, but I have yet to hear any summaries of how they changed except "very, very little."

Yeah, Modiphius hasn't done a 'changelog' of the changes, so it's been being followed by people on some of the V5 groups.

* The Cam book had the Chechnya pages removed and replaced with 8 cities, there have been other general cleanups for typos, and a portion of the Gehenna War article was tweaked.
* The Anarch book has had general cleanup, a couple of art edits (notably removal of the third eye on the beanie girl and addition of the Ministry's symbol), a chapter was replaced in the PDF with another chapter (feeding a baby vitae was replaced with Damsel talking about the Anarch Free States.

So, changed enough.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Digital Osmosis posted:

I'm still not sure I get the what. What war? Why are the Antediluvians doing in the middle east in the first place? Are the Antediluvians like a unified front now? What about the incoming elders, is there like a Cam / Sab truce going on? And why is it all so mysterious in 2019? We've been getting tweets about the block-by-block status of every major engagement in the Syrian civil war for half a decade now.

I suppose I see it's metaplot purpose, and if I didn't suspect it just promoted fan favorite characters instead of clearing the plate for PCs I'd applaud the move, but the whole thing seems like something out of Mummy and not Vampire.

It's not 100% spelled out why they're being summoned (because that is not a current focus aspect of the game, but will likely be covered when/if a Sabbat book is released, since the Gehenna War is their big plot focus), but assumably... those ancient places were where some of them were when they went to sleep eons ago. Or it may not even be Antediluvians. It's laid out in a 'this is a plot that's going on, and will be expanded upon', not laid out in 'and then X, then Y, then Z' minutiae.

Elders are being Beckoned, like Summoning on steroids (and it's something that was talked about as part and parcel of how things in the Jyhad work at times, elders answering mysterious summons or being mindwhammied from a great distance), leaving outright or setting their affairs in order and going; it's specifically mentioned that Elders of 800+ years and 7th Gen are lower are the most effected in the Cam book. And some elders have been able to stay, particularly by gorging themselves on Kindred blood (Helena ate a bunch of Ashirra and felt the call stop after she drank them all dry, for example) and a few other methods.

It's ostensibly to the Middle East, but it's really just ancient places in the world, and even sometimes modern places that grew up around ancient places. Things aren't happening 'on the ground' in places like Jerusalem or Damascus very often, it's happening in wilder, older places away from cities in general, from what has been said/teased (particularly in part of the CbN Lasombra writeup) and so there's no 'blow by blow' tweeting happening from, y'know, a tomb in the middle of the mountains in northern Turkey.

The specifics haven't been divulged yet. The Sabbat got wind of this and, deciding that it was the rise of the Antes and the start of Gehenna, followed the various Kindred going (so the Sabbat are finally getting to, y'know, do what they were formed to do) on a Gehenna Crusade. The 'war' is the Sabbat doing their thing, which sometimes spills over into other areas (a European city is mentioned in the core book as a Gehenna War location, for example). Ostensibly, the conflict is 'various elders are being called to be food/defend/something mysterious to Methuselahs and/or Antediluvians, and Sabbat are doing their diablerie thang while trying to get to do their goal'.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

crime fighting hog posted:

Thank you kindly!

This is what you want.



The fun parody of White Wolf itself, with games such as Zombie the Putrescence/Revenant the Ravishing, Lycanthrope the Curse, Deviant (no subtitle) and such fun workers as Jules Bruccatio FORSOOTH AND HEY NOONY NONNY MY SKYCLAD PAGANS!

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

A Renaissance Nerd posted:

I didn't see any rules about animals in the blood bonding section, but the famulus introduction mentions:

"When Blood Bonding an animal, the vampire can make it a famulus, forming a mental link with it and facilitating the use of other Animalism powers."

Which would seem to imply that you can blood bond animals without making them a famulus?


Whispers mentions:
"Persuading an animal to perform a service requires a Manipulation + Animalism roll; the Difficulty depends on the task required. Having a bird keep an eye out for anyone entering the park at night is Difficulty 3, while ordering any animal to defend a place with their lives is Difficulty 6."

So you can order an animal to do things up to fighting to the death for you. But then Animal Dominion says:
"Chose a type of animal and make a Charisma + Animalism roll with a Difficulty depending on the nature of the animals and the order given. Getting a flock of crows to disperse and look for a specific individual (given some means of identifying their target) is relatively easy (Difficulty 3), but getting a pack of dogs to give their lives in a suicidal attack on another vampire is more of a challenge (Difficulty 5)"

So both of them mention commanding animals, but I guess the difference is between Whispers doing it one at a time, whereas Dominion lets you do it en masse?

For as much as I like V5, the core book has some serious issues with unclear descriptions and layout of topics.

You can ghoul an animal, and it gains the same basic conceits as a Ghoul (one dot of your highest Discipline and a power you have, etc.) A famulus is just a ghoul plus.

A Renaissance Nerd posted:

So both of them mention commanding animals, but I guess the difference is between Whispers doing it one at a time, whereas Dominion lets you do it en masse?

LIterally yes, in the descriptive text. From pg. 247, the first paragraph of Animal Dominion's descriptive text.

The power the vampire holds over
beasts is now great enough to command flocks and packs as if they
were extensions of their own body

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jul 31, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Ferrinus posted:

Go on.

Also, seriously, does anyone know how, in V5, you're supposed to run these two combat scenarios?

Okay, so. The example in the book is terrible. Some of the people on the WoD5 Discord spoke with Karim on Facebook to get further clarification, based on how the text reads separate from the example. Their FAQ is here, with more tidbits from Karim: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hmck6JnWhYZCkhcwphL5sUIoAvrpi9_wlsm0u3OIDJU/edit

Basically, combat resolves as follows:
Characters can either try to damage each other, or the defender can attempt to dodge the attack(s) or do both things. All attacks happen at the same time, not 'I attack on my initiative and James attempts to hurt me back, then James attacks me on his initiative and I attempt to hurt him back'. You do your contest of your combat pool vs. someone else's combat pool, and that's the combat action for you and that person.
- In a 1v1, you roll your attack vs. their attack (or your attack vs. their dodge, or the reverse if they're attacking you), no splitting. Winner does their margin + weapon damage in damage; on a tie, both do a margin of 1 + weapon damage.
- In a Xv1, you have three options:
-- Attack back against everyone attacking you/declare against multiple targets (this is implied, not spelled out, and is further spelled out by the Arms of Ahriman rules in CbN), at which point you split your pool. So for three guys attacking you, or you attacking three guys, you would divide your pool 3 ways if you wanted to try to hit them all back, and they all roll with their full pools vs your split. (IE: Each enemy has a pool of 6, and you have a pool of 9; you divide your pool to have 3 dice against each). Splitting isn't an optimal attack method unless you're up against low end 'mooks' with low pools, like when the ST would use the Simple Antagonists rules.
-- Dodge all of them. You roll your dodge pool against their attack pool, with a deprecating defense penalty. (IE: You roll defense vs. full attack, defense -1 vs. full attack, defense -2 against full attack).
-- Attack one person back, then dodge. So you do option A (attack vs. attack) against one, then dodge -1/dodge -2/etc. as per option B.

To illustrate:
** DETAILED COMBAT EXAMPLES USING SIMPLE COMBAT AS CONFIRMED ACCURATE BY KARIM**

Scenario A: T is attacked by A, B and C. T wants to try to damage them all back.
T has an attack pool of 8.
T chooses to split 2/3/3 against A/B/C.
A, B and C all use their full attack pool.
The person with the highest margin does damage, or on a tie it's a margin of 1 + any weapon damage.

Scenario B: T wants to dodge A, B and C.
T has a dodge pool of 6.
A rolls attack against T's dodge pool with no penalty.
B rolls attack against T's dodge pool -1 (5 dice)
C rolls attack against T's dodge pool -2 (4 dice)

Scenario C: T is attacked by A, B and C. T wants to damage C (as the weakest link) and dodge A and B. Karim clarified that you DO switch pools when you do this, despite the example not showing that.
T has an attack pool of 8 and a dodge pool of 6.
T and C roll their attacks against each other per Scenario A.
A rolls attack against T's dodge pool -1 (5 dice) per Scenario B
B rolls attack against T's dodge pool -2 (4 dice) per Scenario B

For Ranged combat, it's a little different:
If two targets are shooting at each other, they both roll a contested ATTR+Firearms to do damage to each other, as there is cover assumed (think of it like the movies where guy leans out from behind something, lets off some shots and leans back in).
If a target is actively dodging, it's ATTR+Firearms vs Dex+Athletics, with modifications for cover as described on pg. 125
If a target has no access to cover at all, and isn't trying to dodge, then it's a roll vs. Difficulty 2 (2 successes needed), with the margin damage done as normal.
You'd apply any of the above to Ranged combat when it's appropriate (three guys firing at one guy, for example).

Does that illustrate it a bit better for you? If not, let me know and I can post some more detailed examples. In theory, it still looks like a lot of rolls, but it's not as slow as you'd think, even if you're doing something like dodging against multiple opponents, with the removal of 'roll to soak, roll for damage'. I can get through an entire combat with four PCs and up to about five or six NPCs in about 45 minutes if everyone is on the ball (and that's rolling out the whole conflict, not even using 'three and out' or other ways to use the narrative and combat in concert) versus needing much more time in Revised (or much LESS time if someone had a high Celerity and just busted every enemy with an extra action).

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Aug 1, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Ferrinus posted:

Cool, that helps a lot. My other big complaint about V5 was with the combat system, but I guess I now know that it's with the explanation of the combat system - what you're describing looks good. A couple more questions:

1. It says that the general order of resolution is already-close combat, firearms attacks, and people entering close combat. Does that mean that something wonky happens if my character is charging yours and yours has a gun, but mine hasn't actually closed with yours as the round begins? Or do we just roll my Brawl vs. your Firearms?

2. There's that Celerity power that lets you attack so quickly no defense is possible. What happens if I use it to attack you, and you attack me normally back? Is it like, I deal damage to you as though you'd rolled no successes, and you deal damage to me based on your margin vs. my successes?

1. It's dependent on the situation, really. If you're charging and you can't close the distance, you wouldn't get a brawl/melee attack (like, let's say the guy is 50 meters away; that's well within gun range but you're not charging 50 meters in one round of 'average' combat). So you'd end up mainly needing to dodge the firearms attack in 'firearms attacks' phase until you closed range, at which point you'd be in 'newly engaged phase', and probably want to use the rules for brawl vs firearms close combat from pg. 302 (we're working on a big example that shoves everything together and will show using basic and advanced conflict options together, to give a full picture) if they tried to shoot you in close range. Either that or, depending on the scenario/narrative, you might force them to match you in like, str + brawl vs. str + brawl. I don't ever use initiative as written, as it breaks some other things (like split attack pools).

2. That's one that hasn't been answered yet, it was on the list before WW was absorbed and Karim stopped answering questions. Myself, I would maybe rule it as one of the few 'exceptions to the rule' above that all attacks happen at once. As it says on Unerring Aim/Lightning Strike that they can't defend, it's essentially you getting a 'free' attack because of your speed, and then they would be able to attack you back as normal during their turn (and so you could dodge or attack back), but that MIGHT be overpowered (as at that point, you could damage them twice, which is significant). I'd have to do some testing on it, as noone in the game I'm running has Disciplines above 3 right now.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Aug 1, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Ferrinus posted:

I actually think it's pretty good.


I don't mean the optional initiative rules, I mean the sidebar on page 125 that tells you what rolls in a physical conflict to resolve first. Specifically, I'm imagining a situation in which the close combatant can reach the shooter on this turn (they're just across a room or something), but doesn't start engaged.

In your scenario there, you'd act during newly-engaged combat phase (since you reached them during the turn, but didn't start the turn engaged), and would use the proper pools (as noted, the pg. 302 str + firearms vs str + brawl pool is the most likely candidate). It's abstracted in a cinematic manner, but it doesn't mean that 'a guy with a gun out is always going to go before anyone that reaches him in that turn'. The way it's written implies (and the way at least LAbN runs it, which backs up the interpretation) that movement and such works out during the declarations of PC and NPC actions, then dice rolls happen based on the phases on pg. 125, if you're not using the optional initiative rules.

So all movement would happen during declaration. Once that's all done...
Anyone already stabbing or punching each other is resolved.
Anyone already shooting (either at another shooter or as firearms vs. brawl or at a target that can only dodge) is resolved.
Anyone just getting to their combatants is resolved.

You'd have to make an ST Fiat decision on when something like, say, you reaching a gunman that is already firing on someone else, based on the scenarios above for split attacks and deprecating dodging. Personally I'd just have a split attack (so you charge a dude firing on another dude, and the gunman fires on both you and the original target, thus splitting his pool) in the most convenient phase (so for me, I'd resolve all of that in the ranged combat phase, since it's not going to break anything there). This is another one where Karim was asked, but kinda disappeared before we could get an answer on his intent.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Aug 1, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Gobbeldygook posted:

That V5's basic combat mechanics require a developer Q&A and has open questions is an incredible red flag.

also re: linear char gen/geometric advancement discussion, another way to resolve it is to cut out the middleman and just directly award dots to the players. You could do so equally and arbitrarily("Background dot for everyone!"), randomly ("I roll the dice and...Chart says everyone gets a skill dot"), on a pattern ("Everyone got a background dot last time, so this time everyone gets a skill dot, and next time we advanced everyone will get a supernatural power dot"), or a bidding system ("There is a background dot, two skill dots, and a supernatural power dot up for auction").

Eh. Outside of the lovely example, everything else is pretty straightforward, and a lot of the vagueness is intentional to allow some ST wiggle room. A lot of the questions that were posed to the dev were due to...
1. The mad rush for the first run of the corebook to hit Gencon that did leave some things unfinished and requiring errata.
2. The book not repeating rules, so people not taking the book as a 'whole' product and thinking that because, for example, that you can't spend WP on a tracker roll wasn't repeated when it talked about tracker rolls for, say, diablerie, that it needed clarification.
and
3. WoD rules lawyers who, rather than understand that it's left somewhat open for the ST to do what fits their narrative, like most things in the game, they have to have everything spelled out for them.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

juggalo baby coffin posted:

this is an interesting idea i missed earlier. maybe it's like when the ghoul heals lethal damage it's your jacked up flesh trying to fix the damage, so it ends up becoming deformed. using your chestbursting attack would damage the ghoul, which would accelerate the progress.

I dunno how to track it though. I'm worried about adding too much book keeping to the bloodline which is vetoing a lot of the ideas i've been having myself.

I'm going to learn how to do nice PDFs so I can put these bloodlines together in an easily shareable format. if we came up with a few more we could have our own Bloodlines - The Awful supplement, if other people want their bloodlines to go in there too.

For the PDFs, you could do worse than sign up for STV just to steal the templates they use. They have both inDesign and Word templates for Requiem books, so you could extract just the 'bloodlines' writeups (or equivalent) and use that template.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

juggalo baby coffin posted:

i'm stupid, what's STV?

Storyteller's Vault, WW's official 'publish your own fan content' program. They have templates for all the various game lines that are released for publishing, including Requiem (and I think there's even differences between 1e and 2e templates).

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Mors Rattus posted:

As someone who actually likes magical girl anime: Princess is loving awful and has no understanding of any magical girl show except, possibly, Madoka.

Sorry.

I agree with you, but that's pretty much the point. Madoka was the first (really) 'dark genre' magical girl anime, and it was pretty much the sole inspiration for Princess.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Mors Rattus posted:

ahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha you summer child you know literally nothing

Lemme talk some time about Nurse Angel Ririka, Princess Tutu, Utena, Kaitou Jeanne...honestly, though, even stuff like Cardcaptor Sakura got loving dark in places (hey did you know the fail state of Sakura's mission is the world goes on, but, explicitly, is altered so that no one truly loves you and you know this), to say nothing of Sailor Moon's AND THEN EVERYONE loving DIED moments.

Madoka is nowhere even near the first, it just got really big and was written by a misogynist. e: and spawned legions of lovely imitations, of course

Well, when I say 'dark' I mean dark in the way Madoka went. I wouldn't consider Princess Tutu or Jeanne to have quite went there in the same way, same with Sailormoon's 'and everyone died' wasn't quite the same. Utena's about the only one that's really close, and Princess just 'reads' like someone who modeled Madoka and hadn't really seen much others. Madoka just seems to have been that 'catalyst' for a lot of people on the 'dark' scale (or maybe 'edgy' scale). I didn't realize Princess was being written prior to Madoka airing though (I could've sworn Madoka aired first, but I'll totes admit to being wrong).

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Sep 8, 2019

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Shrecknet posted:

They lose presence and gain "can send out raven/rat spies" in the R->M switch

Eh? You mean they lose Nightmare (supernatural fear) from Requiem, and have Animalism in Masquerade. Nosferatu don't have Presence in Requiem.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Shrecknet posted:

I also checked and found out I have the available Merit dots and XP to add Oracular Ability to my character and shot off a quick email to the STs to see if they wanted to go down that path, because I think it would be loving hilarious if my shitposting turned into an honest-to-god plot device players cared about.

I wish more players in LARP did this type of stuff, rather than just hoarding dots and +1s and go off to throw chops.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

How do people find LARPs these days? One World By Night and Mind's Eye Theater are their own separate game networks now, yeah? What are the big boffer groups out in New England? Do any of the "find an independant game" newsgroups still run.

One World by Night and the Camarilla/Mind's Eye Society have always been separate game networks. Mind's Eye Theatre is just the name for the LARP version of the game that they both have used. There is also Underground Theatre (though that seems to be running on life support) and there are a couple of others like Winding Path Initiative (which has literally 5 games in their chronicle) which are essentially splinter groups.

OWbN still uses the old Laws of <stuff> books, with 20 years of house rules, custom content, ongoing plots including crossover plots, and 20 year old PCs in some instances. I most recently attempted to play a Sabbat LARP with them and, beyond the schizophrenic nature of how the Sabbat is presented, playing a new 30 XP PC in a game where the external conflicts were designed for characters with 1000 XP is... daunting, to say the least. Through some of their Facebook contacts there have also been some very hefty complaints about some of the most recent plots, such as a Changing Breeds/Changeling crossover global plot of some sort (this seems to be a common occurrence, crossover plots).

Mind's Eye Society uses a variety of systems; their Masquerade chronicle uses the By Night Studios books with a few house rules, and significant world building materials and requirements for approvals. Their NWoD/ChronD games are based around 'all the splats in SPACE!' or 'all the splats vs the God Machine'. But hey, they allow Beast in their mixed genre games, so... The Mind's Eye Society can be fun but that depends on a lot of factors. MES is about to reset next summer to do an 'all new, all different' Masquerade chronicle that probably won't be anything 'all new, all different' like most of their chronicles. Not sure if they have an Apocalypse chronicle using the new Apoc book, and the MES is planning for (SURPRISE!) a Dreaming chronicle when that book comes out and a Dark Ages chronicle (so it'll be lots of people in t-shirts with nametags saying Plate Mail [Crafts 5] instead of the same with Armani Suit [Crafts 5] and a few costumers). Hard pass.

UT and WPI seem to use By Night Studios only but I don't know anyone playing any of those groups.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Sep 29, 2019

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply