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So, here's my WW trip report and something I hope someone else here will take to heart: My wife, who is a smarty pants, stopped me from watching any of this show until the last episode was very very close. We binged most of it Saturday and finished the last 3 eps yesterday. I loved it, but what I found super interesting was what I saw when I checked into the place I usually go to for TV reviews: Onion AV... quote:There are probably people who were stunned by the reveal that William and the Man In Black were one and the same. Somewhere. Presumably these people don’t read the Internet, but even then, “The Bicameral Mind” makes the twist immediately obvious before taking its sweet time to finally deliver the reveal. I could blame Internet theorizing on the lack of surprise here, but honestly, there’s no reason in the world we had to wait this long for a reveal this shallow. Picking this show apart on the internet absolutely ruined it for this person....and I'm going to venture a guess that they aren't the only one. Maybe I'm dumb (I'd prefer to think I just don't put so much certainty on my own show-theorizing) but I am that person who didn't really see that William/MIB reveal coming (and probably a lot of the other reveals in the show), and I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the fact that I didn't flash on the "multiple timelines" reveal until very late. Which imo is the real king of twists for the show, especially because it plays on the feeling the Hosts have with confusion over perfect memory recall. But the reviewer assumes that the reader is in the exact same boat where they KNEW all of these twists were coming and it colors their entire feeling about the ending and the series. And that sucks. My point being, if you really like this show I suggest trying not posting about it for season 2. I was a big  fan and I really loved coming here and diving into theorizing and plot stuff, but now I'm really wondering whether I would have enjoyed it that much more if I had NOT done that and let a few twists and turns hit me in the way they were intended rather than "Whoa that one poster guy and me were right!".Binge-ing it probably also helped with a lot of the "wheel spinning" I see people complaining about and doing that probably helped keep me off my toes for theorizing and whatnot, but keeping myself out of this thread definitely did and I am absolutely sure that it contributed to me, personally, (AS IN THIS ISN'T FOR EVERYONE AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE WATCHING TV WRONG) enjoying it a whole lot more than I would have. So, y'know. Consider it next season or next time you start hearing about a narrative show you think you'll be really into ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Besides that here's some quick hits: - Fantastic first and last episodes. - I wasn't all-in on Maeve's story, partly because I thought it was implausible that Felix and Sylvester would live in this world and decide that they'd rather enable an emerging Ultron-type super villian rather than risk their jobs. I know Sylvester eventually did but even to let it get to that late stage was dumb as hell and if they wanted me to believe Felix was THAT sympathetic to the Hosts they needed to show me more of it. - I got a twinge of Evangelion Gendo Ikari/SEELE when the show would focus on the relationship between Ford and the Board of Directors and I was sad they didn't lean into that more. The mystery and politicking dance between the two in both shows was fun. - The set design and staging and mix of Western/Modern in the parts in the WW management/design/whatever office was loving incredible and I would have watched a whole season of an incredibly lovely show just to see more of it. - The SW reveal was an extremely good tease for an expansion of the show. It seems unlikely that there's an entire South/East/North when management and Ford spend so much time hanging out in the West...but it'd be cool and a great direction for the show to go in.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:28
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MeLKoR posted:This was the best hour and a half of TV in a long while. I think it's in the text 1) He made this decision a long time ago, when he talks about Oppenheimer and the "mistake" needing decades to be corrected. He realized he was wrong about the Hosts a long rear end time ago, which may or may not have been a full embrace of Robo Uber Alles. Either way he had a chance to let the park fold when Arnold died but he found someone to bankroll it because... 2) he said the thing that Arnold didn't realize that they needed in order to reach a full consciousness wasn't just suffering but a whole lot of it aka "time" and a long study of their enemies. Either that or he thought that full consciousness wasn't the be-all-end-all and he wanted to equip them to truly take over everything.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:40
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I also don't believe Ford's still alive just because that was clearly a Sean Ban GOT style role. I'd be shocked if it was anything more than him showing up in the finale of season 2 or something similiarly easy to shoot in a day or whatever. I'd also hate for that death to get cheapened in the way that Bernards does.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:45
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Dazerbeams posted:The people who don't believe Felix and Sylvester's story line must have perfect coworkers. I'm jealous, really. lol Yeah I suppose but I didn't feel like they were portrayed as either dumb enough or sympathetic to the hosts enough to actually go along with turning Maeve up to 11 just because she asks.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:48
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whatever7 posted:I actually think Ford's decision was pretty believable. Ford wanted to leave the world being remember as father of sentient robot. He even brusheed off Arnold's attempt and said he was doing it wrong, never mind Arnold's contribution was as important or more important to the robots. I don't even think it was that bad, Arnold was the father of consciousness but Ford's philosophy said "yeah...and?" because he didn't think consciousness was all that great on it's own....especially when humans were drat near guaranteed to respond to it badly. Not so much that Arnold was doing it wrong, but that he didn't take the whole thing to it's logical conclusion. Which Ford thought was "well this is a Neanderthal/Homo Sapien situation and one of them is gonna die....might as well be us because these new guys are the poo poo".
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Dec 5, 2016 19:02
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Hell no. I love spoilers and I know I'm not alone even though we're constantly drowned out by other viewers whining about needing to be surprised to appreciate a show. I didn't like the story concept of the two timeframes, but I appreciated the effort that went into that scripting and watching it while knowing the end result made it actually fascinating for me. I don't like to rewatch so saying, 'Humbug watch it again if you want to see how it works!' isn't my bag. I'm more into the technical production of a series; editing, music, cinematography; than characters and story most of the time. I can and do appreciate characters and story, but it isn't the thing that makes or breaks a movie or TV show for me to be honest. We're in agreement here. The true enemy are people who whine about wanting to be surprised while still thinking they have some sort of right to post on every page of these things. It's the exact same dorks who want to post endless theories about Game of Thrones and then cry about everyone else's because they might have book cooties. It's your own responsibility to stay off the internet, not everyone elses to make sure your internet experience is exactly as you like. I'd just like to re-assure those kind of people that self control does reward you with a better viewing experience when you're like that. Log off, motherfuckers. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:08
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Most of the ladybots use flash
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Dec 5, 2016 21:23
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I can buy that it's possible that after Maeve puts so many points into INT she can use that her CHR skill together even in a subconscious way to manipulate humans like Felix into completing whatever Ford narrative she's part of. She's probably like a chess computer working an insane amount of variables down to the most workable one and she's got Felix flagged as her best mark/path to it. Turning their own INT up all the way seems very Deus Ex Machina. I could see Ford needing a semi-conscious to do that to contain/work the management side of his scheme. Maybe doing that enables them to really work over humans in crazy efficient ways, but that explanation really begs the question of who could possibly stop them if they're THAT smart and powerful and observant etc. Edit: I think Teddy is going to be a dark horse for human sympathetic next season(s). He looked pretty horrified about his first and second encounters with Wyatt and I don't see him signing on fully with the plan no matter how down he is with Dolores. He might even be a safety switch in case Wyatt's plan goes somewhere Ford really doesn't want like Conscious hosts just picking up where humans left off and subjugating other hosts in a non-Maeve manner. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:30
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Blazing Ownager posted:If Felix wasn't a plant in the end, I'll eat my hat. But my feeling is why not reveal that now and why include that great little moment where he looks at himself like OH poo poo? I think the writers are probably self aware enough that they don't want the show to become a Battlestar Galactica style WHO IS A CYLON guessing game, which is way less fun than what they've done already. kaynorr posted:It works if the top of the scale isn't mega-genius but just not being dumbed down. In the context of hosts-as-park-props, it makes sense that some are more intelligent (broader vocabulary, demonstrate more initiative, think on their feet, etc. but please let's not get bogged down in a discussion of Intelligence As A Thing) than others. You don't necessarily want every host to be able to solve problems better than a guest, but some should appear smarter and provide better answers than others. But don't they mention that no one lets them go past whatever level Maeve is already at or close to? She's near the max allowed because she's a manager but there's like double the amount available for some reason. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:38
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Blazing Ownager posted:I don't think he's a host, but I think he's been working for SOME group, possibly one we've never met possibly one we have, the whole time. Well in that case they'd have to explain the sympathetic scenes we get of him alone and being berated by Sylvester without the trademark TV "I'll get you someday" sneer
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Dec 5, 2016 21:42
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NmareBfly posted:The more I think of it the more deliberate it feels that Ford being responsible for Maeve is never made explicit. They confirmed all sorts of other stuff. Why not that? I think it's pretty explicit in that she just happens to distract management in a big way at the same time he gives Dolores a chance to start the revolution. Edit: What's the explanation for the cold-storage army in the context of Dolores/Wyatt being given her own choice of whether or not to start poo poo up? Like if she decided against it were they all gonna sneak back underground at Ford's direction? Like they seem to be the writ-large "gun" that she has because they're there in case she decides "yes", but what the heck was gonna happen if she decided no? Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:43
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Yeah I think killing Arnold is one of those moments I don't think they'd want to cheap out on and make just another layer of lies because it's a fairly big deal and a major cog to that all-important first town story. It's also something that Dolores/Wyatt needs to move beyond (like Bernard and his son) in order to find her Bi-cameral mind. She has to come to grips with the fact that she was just a gun that Arnold used to kill himself rather than it being something she did out of her own ideas.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:57
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I really want to believe that Steven Ogg was cast in a subversive way because of his role as Trevor in GTAV (and Trevors oddity as one of a few GTA protagonists who actually have narrative license to be an NPC killing machine) but I also suspect he just looks hella good as an old-timey face and is just the right character actor level budget for that kind of role. I assume the threads already picked this over like crazy?
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Dec 5, 2016 22:07
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Meanwhile in Euro Westworld https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNx8YI9gAHs
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Dec 5, 2016 22:33
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The Glumslinger posted:Dammit, I made this joke last night I'm sorry lol I searched low and high for the part where a repair tech takes robo-scratchy's face off and it screams because I swear I posted it when the show started. That one is truly the show in a nutshell. 
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Dec 5, 2016 22:49
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KoRMaK posted:Wow ok so this got way more specific than I thought, this simpsons ep was inspired by WestWolrd the movie wasn't it? I'd say yes, but that episode also came out the year after Jurassic Park which muddies the water on the whole thing.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:45
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Cojawfee posted:I'm interested in seeing what Samurai World means. Delos wanted all the host IP smuggled out of the park for whatever plans they have. I figured that was just making hosts to do menial tasks but apparently it's another park? idk about that. Putting their prototypes in the same building as WW, complete with a new logo, seems like a bad idea if they're secret to the point of smuggling info out of WW for it....and the butcher tech guy already has knowledge about it so it can't be that secret. It's really weird because if there's really a whole other Park out there it seems weird that management and Ford would hang out in WW the whole time....but what else could it be? Maybe just some beta testing for an expansion? quote:Delos wanted all the host IP smuggled out of the park for whatever plans they have I don't think it'd be really necessary to hide the idea of a new park from Ford. It's totally possible he and everyone else already knew about plans/beta tests for a new theme, it's just not something they talked about on screen. The IP was getting smuggled out precisely because of what they said, they were afraid Ford could erase everything if he wanted to. What they plan to do with it is something else, but the plan for smuggling out a copy seemed pretty straightforward. They couldn't get rid of Ford without it. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:31
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Fellatio del Toro posted:///libs/private/W.Arnold/hidden.../DO NOT OPEN/NOT_PORN/ck.dat FW: FW: FW: FW: Lead this Host to full consciousness for a free cupholder!
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Dec 6, 2016 00:32
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Supercar Gautier posted:Revealing that none of the characters are human would invalidate a major dichotomy that the show is trying to explore. It would be an absolute waste. A grand twist for its own sake, at the expense of everything else. Yeah, Nolan and Joy seem very cognizant of the tropes of this kind of story and I think they're probably above doing a WHO ARE THE FINAL CYLONS?!!?! style story if they're capable of hitting a 1st season this hard while only doing it once.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:37
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I'm hoping they make good on the "we're better than you and we're here to replace you" and "we don't want to live with you" themes. The story of humans/hosts trying to live together is pretty well trod ground and I'd rather see a Matrix Second Rennaisaince City 01 style "We're just going to outdo you in every way" and an attempt to build a true Hosts only society in WW. Those specific bits were the most interesting parts of that animatrix thing.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:44
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Google Butt posted:Imagine being such a nerd that you analyze television shows so deeply and earnestly that it was actually bad all along UFC thread experience was the suffering that lead you to a higher truth.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:48
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Cojawfee posted:It just seems like if they already have Samurai World going, they would already have most of the host IP. The people working on the samurai would need as much access as Ford has unless he's seriously running both West World and the other park. So if both parks have the info, and assuming a company as large as Delos has proper data backups, there's no way for Ford to completely destroy everything. Ford already seems like he has too much access to every aspect of the park, there's no way they give him IT admin privileges. But he's not personally designing and writing every new person and story in WW either, there are middle managers who seem like they have enough autonomy to at least get a beta test of a new era going on their own. Either way ya'll got me convinced it's not a whole other wing of the park and that's a bummer.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:01
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He's just pretending there's a new narrative being written but he's spending time orchestrating Delores and maybe Maeve into consciousness. The thing he's digging up is Escalante town because Delores has to get there to finish the maze.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:56
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Also seemed like Arnold didnt think Ford had the technical expertise to make more consciousness capable bots, he says something to that effect and Bernard says there's a lot of their core that Ford doesn't understand. How he made Bernard then, idk, but he said it.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:45
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drat If China is making a JapanWorld there's gonna be a whole ton of conscious Japanobots because the suffering there is gonna be off the chain
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Dec 6, 2016 02:53
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*the scene goes into ultra slow motion as the camera dives into Delores' code*code:
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Dec 6, 2016 03:01
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Pussy Quipped posted:We're caulking and floating this bitch. You have shot 2,868 lbs of board of directors meat but can only carry 200 back to the wagon
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Dec 6, 2016 03:10
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Mustached5thGrader posted:What made the robots in itchy and scratchy land attack people? It's not the camera flash because that's what they use to kill them Found it, see below Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 03:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReOO3xLCTGI
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Dec 6, 2016 03:42
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Tunicate posted:Westworld is a pretty lovely theme park IMO, everyone who goes there ends up wanting to die. You ever wait in a line at Disney?
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Dec 6, 2016 06:21
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Bernard going "and when you make it to the mainland... " and never mentioning it again was one of the only times I honestly rolled my eyes at this show.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:08
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Convergence posted:What, exactly, is Ford's masterstroke here? Because all I heard is some vague bullshit about how suffering makes one real. Literally no substance beyond that. His grand plan, after Arnold actually figured out how to make the hosts conscious, was to basically wait around for 30 years while the hosts suffer a bunch waiting for some completely undefined notion of "readiness"? Then why wipe Dolores over and over? Did he actually do anything, other than make Bernard kill himself for absolutely no reason? Well I mean the whole point was to let delores get there on her own and find the bicameral/inner voice/self determined purpose that none of the others really had. It took her that many loops and years of the maze narrative and to come to terms with William. He needed her to get to her inner Wyatt so she was properly equipped to lead the robo bandito uprising. He knows how to make them conscious but he says a few different times that he doesnt think that's enough. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 08:12
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For better or worse I bet he's gonna be a badass still, he spent 30 years practicing their way of fighting and he wasn't taking many hits on his last run.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:34
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grilldos posted:I guess I'll be the guy who brings up the Ed Harris Truman Show thematic connections with Westworld. There's nothing really to talk about there other than: Ed Harris in hats. Good morning! And in case I don't see you, I shall have such revenges on you, what they are yet I know not, but they shall be the terrors of the earth!
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Dec 6, 2016 18:06
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quote:Finally, “SW” stands for Samurai World, right? lol, bastards
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Dec 6, 2016 18:38
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MattLochNessMonster posted:So after everything in the Finale happens, was there really a need for Ford to kill Theresa? She wasn't a threat to him and his plans, because everything happened (presumably) to his timetable anyway. I assume letting the board know that he's printing unlicensed/unregistered Hosts in a secret bunker out in WW would have had the effect they were looking for with the Clementine demonstration. They could have halted his "new narrative" while pushing him out instead of letting him use the last of his influence to get it done.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:27
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Mulva posted:I'mma miss Jimmi Simpson, dude deserves to have serious work. He probably will, if he gets half the heat HBO-level actors from GOT end up with he's about to make a move upwards.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:27
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Gotta admit I spent half the william scenes either thinking or saying "FORKSTABBED!"
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Dec 6, 2016 19:52
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Vulture article posted:The topic came up during a discussion about recurring shots and filming techniques in the first season: As Nolan explained, Steadicam shots indicate that hosts are doing what they've been told to do, but handheld shots indicate that they're acting on their own. That's pretty boss Edit: A bit later they mention that it's first used with Delores when Teddy comes to save her....so confronting the whole truth about William was when that happened for her. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 20:05
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whatever7 posted:One of the things that doesn't make sense in the time line is that the Maeve's escape happened before Ford's "master narrative revealing." Not canon or anything but Ford seemed to have control over when and where people's phones worked in the park, like that QA guy and Elsie
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Dec 6, 2016 20:10
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