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Blue Nation posted:I recorded the people waiting for gasoline today, I apologize for the shakiness. Are those numbers right? Wouldn't that mean that they have the lowest average purchasing power of any nation in the world right now?
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May 23, 2019 14:28
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I still can't get past the claims from last page that people on the minimum wage can only afford 4 or 5 bags of rice and beans a month. That can't be possible. You'd have people rioting or starving all the time.
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May 24, 2019 13:25
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Saladman posted:Most workers in Venezuela make minimum wage; it’s closer to average income than equivalent to American minimum wage. Americans on minimum wage can go to a food bank or soup kitchen, Venezuelans on minimum wage have to hustle, get money from relatives abroad, literally dig through trash, or forage in the wilderness for mangos and whatever, in order to survive. Are you honestly telling me that in Venezuela poor people cant get food stamps like in the USA and can't go to a food bank if needed for help? If people were really only able to buy 5 or 6 bags of beans and rice a month, people would be dropping weight like mad.
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May 25, 2019 13:30
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Darth Walrus posted:They have - Caritas estimates the average Venezuelan has lost ten kilos. It's also a probable reason for the lack of organised civil unrest - starvation makes you lethargic and unmotivated. IIRC, a bunch of revolutions were triggered by a sudden increase in living standards, as people now had more energy, more time on their hands, and a bit of hope that life could be better. If things were really this bad, wouldnt we have seen giant marches of anti-maduro people, crowding the streets? Seems like a pretty loving big deal when you can't even get enough food to eat. Thats like the first step of a civilized country is enough food to go around.
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May 25, 2019 14:17
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Corky Romanovsky posted:I didn't see any sources cited in that link posted earlier about weight loss or whatever. So I decided to go looking. I can't claim what I found is more reliable of a source, but can't say it is worse either. Your evidence that there is or isn't a food crisis in a country is that there is google reviews of restaurants from last month?
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May 25, 2019 17:42
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I do really appreciate the narcissism in this thread that comfortable and rich white people in the developed world are telling actual Venezuelans about if the food crisis is real or the racial politics of the country. But but but my google reviews prove the country is doing A-OK!
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May 26, 2019 23:34
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Willie Tomg posted:US farmers have so much inventory of corn and soybeans they're going broke because it's barely worth the effort of harvesting. We could plant nothing for two years and still be coasting on inventory in time for the harvest three years from now. The United States could end the hunger in Venezuela next week. It will not because the famine is a desired product. I don't know if a mass of soybeans would solve the hunger in Venezuela but nothing Maduro has done has shown that he would accept aid in mass from the USA anyways.
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May 28, 2019 01:38
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mortons stork posted:I don't understand how if the government who is exacerbating the venezuelan refugee crisis has also endeavoured to make it harder for refugees to seek asylum there it should be considered the left's responsibility for some reason Do we even really know if there is a refugee crisis? Telesur has said there isnt. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Venezuela-Rejects-False-News-on-Humanitarian-Crisis-Migration-20180903-0006.html
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May 30, 2019 12:59
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Darth Walrus posted:Judging by his post history, I think he's having a dig at Telesur here. Obviously. But thats not to forget there are a ton of maduro apologists that post Telesur uncritically and say that its just the same as the NYT.
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May 30, 2019 14:07
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Noshtane posted:It must be absolutely WILD for the Venezuelan goons to read posts by well fed, well educated and generally well off Americans, explaining to them that the hardships they experienced, the starvation and oppression they suffered or are still suffering at the hands of Maduro and his cronies isn't that bad and that they should accept the current situation because any change might bring the big bad wolf to their door. Its pretty easy for well-fed, safe from violence white posters in north america and europe to talk about how 'everything is just fine" in VZ and "don't rock the boat". Based on everything I've read in this book about communism I'm sure everyone is doing A-OK!
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Jun 8, 2019 17:55
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brugroffil posted:Yes, this is definitely a thing many people have said and continue to say. Yup, youve had a few people in the last few pages respond to actual Venezuelans and tell them either things arent really that bad or that they are assholes for wanting change.
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Jun 9, 2019 01:21
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Majorian posted:This is just flat-out wrong. The crisis didn't start with Hitler; he made it worse on several levels, but the seeds of the crisis were already planted when he came into power, and any negative effect he had was at least matched, if not eclipsed, by the negative effects of years of sanctions. If it wasn't for the stock market crash and the treaty of Versailles, he wouldn't have had to kill all those people. It doesnt count!
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Jul 5, 2019 12:19
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uninterrupted posted:It’s the exact same arguments that came up with Iran/Libya/Syria/etc. I don’t have to Bellingcat my way through a document refuting every claim when the recommendations include “make vaccines more accessible“ and not “end the sanctions literally preventing vaccines from being sent to Venezuela”, or even “don’t put Venezuelan refugees in concentration camps when they apply for asylum in the US”t. No evidence is good evidence if it contradicts how I feel about socialism and also the USA. I don't care if the UN says people are being killed and starved en masse. This is about principles goddamit. I shouldn't have to sell my che Guevara shirts and quit my college socialist club just because one lovely leader is killing thousands when it's not even here in North America and Europe.
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Jul 8, 2019 00:01
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Blue Nation posted:There was a blackout that affected 16 states. Electromagnetic attack, the goverment claims. What Maduro failed to mention is this electromagnetic attack isn't a CIA EMP device but just the servos and switches of 60s era electrical transformer tech failing due to lack of maintenance.
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Jul 25, 2019 20:52
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Lightning Knight posted:I don’t think the technology even exists to do this, does it? Cyber attacks can 100% do this in other countries. But I have a feeling with ancient tech they use in VZ would mean there is no internet access at all in the controller buildings anyways.
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Jul 25, 2019 23:06
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fnox posted:We've heard the exact same arguments being used in this thread. That Bachelet is a right winger and corrupt. That every expat is middle class or bougie, a claim that always comes from people living more comfortable than any Venezuelan émigré. How much of a strawmen are they? I've seen people in this thread run back to cry to C-SPAM, calling me a plantation owner, or something similar to that "agent of the empire" claim. The problem with the lovely argument that "only the rich have fled the country" is the fact we know 10 million have left and VZ never had anywhere close to that many rich people 10 years ago, let alone over the past 3 years.
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Jul 29, 2019 02:37
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Lol the youtube guy isn't allowed to film anymore in venezuela. I wonder why when obviously everything is fine ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTt-HzqzVYk
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Jul 30, 2019 17:53
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Volkerball posted:Speaking of bougie Remember when people in this thread said Blumenthal is a good independent journalist and not a paid shill of the government ? Ahahah He is literally sucking wide eyed on maduros golden sword.
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Jul 31, 2019 07:48
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Regarde Aduck posted:No one said everything is fine. How can it be fine when the most powerful country in the world is waging economic and espionage based war on it? Just a few months ago maduro literally said everything is fine. There isn't even a food crisis
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Aug 3, 2019 16:44
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How a poor area supermarket keeps their shelves stocked (hint : they dont) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZIevN7gp0&t=963s
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Aug 6, 2019 15:59
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thatfatkid posted:What are the literal death squads exactly? I'd like to read about it. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6711945/Masked-police-unit-accused-killing-200-President-Maduro-desperately-clings-power.html
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Aug 9, 2019 12:25
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uninterrupted posted:The elections weren’t fraudulent, that’s why the opposition specifically asked election observers not to come during the last few elections. If the elections weren't fraudulent, how does a leader with 21% approval rating get 68% of the vote?
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Aug 11, 2019 23:45
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GoluboiOgon posted:turnout was much lower than usual (46%) due to some of the opposition parties boycotting the election. 68% of the vote was only 31% of the eligable voters in venezuela. Even including the fact that half the country didn't want to show up for a sham election, maduro's support when from 21% to atleast 31%. He increased his electability by 50% overnight? It was a sham election.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:44
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sexpig by night posted:do you think that's how those numbers work You aren't getting my point. It obviously wasn't a fair election or representative of Venezuela as a whole because of what happened with the opposition being banned. Maduro doesn't have overwhelming support in his country like a few people are claiming on here. He isn't a 40-60% approval guy. He is a 20% guy. Thats why you had millions of people protesting for months. I am not going to accept this weirdo revisionist history that the massive protests of 2018 and 2019 didn't happen and the bullshit lie that most Venezuelan people support Maduro. They don't. The OVERWHELMING majority of the country is anti-maduro.
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Aug 12, 2019 01:35
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Randarkman posted:He used to live in Venezuela. Guess why he doesn't anymore. Probably the same reason 4,000,000 other Venezuelans fled a dying country? Condiv posted:i think the leftists are against 10s of millions of civilians being starved to death m.discordia. dunno why you seem to think that's a good price to pay for regime change Maduro has been causing his own people to starve for a lot longer than just the past few months of 2019. People have been eating out of garbage for years now. If you think the food crisis is a post 2018 problem you are woefully ignorant about what has been going on in Venezuela for the past few years.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:32
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Condiv posted:so the food crisis is bad up until it's massively worsened intentionally by the opposition in order to foster regime change? Lets end the sanctions. That sounds great, who the gently caress is even against that? Maybe even get Maduro to accept more aid in 2017 and 2018 while his people were dying and emmigrating en masse too. We can't pretend things only got bad in 2019 after the latest encompassing round of sanctions. This has been going back years.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:58
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Truga posted:Maduro, incompetently: look at this poo poo guys, my people are so hungry they're migrating to other countries in war refugee numbers Some people in this thread have argued the food crisis isn't real or is exaggerated. That somehow google reviews (lmbo) mean no one is starving or that a full supermarket in a rich area doesn't mean the poor are malnourished. Some people are even saying death squads are coming when they've had death squads from maduro for years.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:19
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:How could they stop it? If sanctions were dropped and unambiguous aide was given to help stabilize the situation, and Maduro directly opposed it, do you think the crowds would come out and back him on that front? Just doing it would break the narrative that is keeping him in power. The military could try to hold on but without the popular support underneath that it could not stand. There would be calls for new elections very rapidly. It would not be bloodless but magnitudes less destructive than a direct US intervention and a great deal more helpful to Venezuelans than US sanctions designed to make the crisis hurt more. Didn't Maduro refuse to receive international aid for years, even from non-western sources, because he was still pretending "there is no crisis" ? Would he even distribute USA or western aid even if it came no strings attached through a third party?
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Aug 12, 2019 19:38
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:Mm if you say so. That's not what I remember seeing. Different sources maybe. Some real revisionist history. The anti-government protests were literal road crowding massive. The anti-gov protests were multitudes of people bigger than the pro-maduro ones, especially when you consider half the pro-maduro supporters were the military in uniform. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai9e5i6fPDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ111tNKeCs 536 fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 01:42
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Condiv posted:I’m not sure what to believe wrt the food crises. Wait, aren't you the guy that isn't even sure if there is a food crisis going on? Have you been able to figure that out over the past year or are you trying to decipher if people actually are hungry still?
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Aug 13, 2019 13:55
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Condiv posted:you might try reading the post you quoted. it's very clear that I am not questioning if there's an ongoing food crisis. Are the people of Venezuela hungry today and have they been since at least 2018?
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Aug 13, 2019 14:05
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Condiv posted:
You should maybe even do the most basic job of educating yourself if you still can't figure out if their was a food crisis pre 2019. Do you also believe Kim Jong Il got 4 hole in ones the first time he went golfing?
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Aug 13, 2019 18:50
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Condiv posted:no, the best solution is to not make a determination when I don't have enough information to do so, and enough trustworthy information doesn't exist. you can go ahead and jump to conclusions like "maduro burned food aid!" if you'd like, but I'd rather wait for a clearer picture so I can say "oh wait, it was the people throwing molotovs near the caravan who did that". You are thinking the hunger crisis of the past few years is a grey issue and could be propagandize either way. Its not. You are sounding like a global warming truther, ignoring all the major studies and the global consensus of professionals. People are starving, thats a fact. How many is up for argument but every major NGO that has studied it has described it as a crisis. So stop with the bullshit of "we can't know for certain". Thats like saying we can't know for certain if people were being held as political prisoners in China or people were starving in North Korea. Also you are being super creepy with fnox now with the whole accusing him of lying about being poor in Sweden. 536 fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 20:50
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Rent-A-Cop posted:This is a real creepy derail you got going here Condiv 'ol buddy. Seriously creepy derail to try and see how "refugee"y Fnox really is or not. Nothing is going to satisfy condiv anyways.
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Aug 13, 2019 21:49
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Slanderer posted:
What stake do you have in all of this? You are calling him a worm and saying he wants bloodshed when he actually has extended family and friends that still live in VZ. Its not just a game of arguing side online for e-points for him. He went through food shortages. People are struggling and are at risk from dying from the current government, or even from other actors if the situation becomes worse. Its a bit disingenuous calling him a worm when you lived a privileged life and you are accusing him of not knowing what sacrifices are worth it or not. 536 fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Aug 15, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 02:08
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:stupid stuff about how the hypothetical opposition might be worse because they might do what the current government already has been doing en masse for years maduro argues that no one is hungry and they need no aid "Venezuela won't allow the spectacle of fake humanitarian aid because we're no one's beggars," Maduro, Venezuela's acting president, said, despite evidence that many in Venezuela are going hungry due to widespread food shortages. People across the country have even begun to refer to their lack of food as the "Maduro diet," and have confronted him about it in public. The nation is "not suffering the humanitarian crisis fabricated by Washington over the last four years to justify intervening in our country," Maduro added. maduro has already sold hundreds of millions of VZ's industry to china and russia maduro has been using death squads for years and has killed thousands Your worst case scenario for the opposition is the current scenario for the past few years by the corrupt and incompetent government.
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Aug 16, 2019 23:11
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BigFactory posted:Scouts honor. These guys coming in to troll seem to be (barely) skirting around real support for this dude. They seem to know it’s totally gross to actually come out and support Maduro but it’s right under the surface. But what do I know? I'm pretty sure Maduro is a goon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM4vtQRKLxw
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Aug 16, 2019 23:15
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Truga posted:i can't tell you exactly how much each is though, because both sides have a thick, opaque layer of propaganda going on. if you believe the western mass media, maduro literally eats babies for breakfast and kicks hungry pregnant ladies on the street while eating empanadas, meanwhile usa doing the same is very noble because maduro is a nasty dictator. Do you follow the same rules of "oh my god we can't figure out if anything is wrong or not because the media" with North Korea too? There is no way to be certain there is a hunger crisis and mass state killings because there is a chance some of it is propaganda. No way to know. We just have to take the leader at their word that they are a saviour and its just the west that is hurting people,right?
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Aug 17, 2019 12:48
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Truga posted:Yes, a lot of the bullshit you read in the media about NK is bullshit too, is that somehow a shocker? Is there a hunger crisis in NK? How about labour camps? Yes or no.
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Aug 17, 2019 13:18
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Truga posted:Yes? What are you trying to achieve here? I'm trying to expand on the argument "we can't know for certain if things in VZ have been bad because of propaganda". I'm saying yes, we can. We can know when things are terrible in countries even if they have corrupt authoritarian regimes and even if its clouded with propaganda on both sides. We can be certain people were starving in VZ far before 2018. Just like we could know the same about dire conditions in NK.
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Aug 17, 2019 19:18
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