Dragon Ballz megathread: French Goku

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Who is the man?? This poll is closed.
Goku	202	7.09%
Vegeta	279	9.79%
Krillin	208	7.30%
Piccolo or his nameks	212	7.44%
Gohan or Cool Gohan	135	4.74%
Yamcha	90	3.16%
Tien	120	4.21%
Muten Roshi	89	3.12%
Tao Pai Pai	71	2.49%
Frieza	69	2.42%
Cell or an android	86	3.02%
Buu	62	2.18%
Hercule "Mark" Satan	327	11.48%
Videl	90	3.16%
Bulma	104	3.65%
Yajirobe	99	3.47%
Ginyu or other Frieza squad guy	68	2.39%
King kai or another kai	53	1.86%
Chi-Chi	83	2.91%
Goten	43	1.51%
Trunks or Cool Trunks	112	3.93%
Bardock	48	1.68%
Other villain of DB,Z, or GT(please post about it!)	41	1.44%
Uub	42	1.47%
Oolong	90	3.16%
Zamasu	26	0.91%
Total:	1326 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Caros: May 14, 2008

IcePhoenix posted:

I thought we were all in agreement that the Manga was stupid earlier so I'm not sure why everyone's arguing about it.

The explanation for Freeza powering up while in hell was cool and this episode was a lot of fun, it was over real fast and I was sad about that.

Agreed. I love that Freeza basically just pulled a Piccolo and more or less meditated away his flaws.

TFRazorsaw posted:

well, the regeneration failed to ressurect his physical body, at least.

The part I edited before you quoted me still stands, I think.

He doesn't come back 'correctly' from Trunks slashing him in half here either.

Dias posted:

It's just a blatant way of making Goku be The Only One Who Matters, idgaf if it's an actual plothole or not.

Anyway, lol freeza is more of a liability than he is an ally, what the gently caress did you think was gonna happen, Goku? Seems like Freeza is aiming for that GoD position too. Also U9 is still garbage, they're getting wiped off first thing in the tournament. Kinda interesting that they actually hinted at that false leak's twist too, wonder if that was reactionary or just bad info from a source getting twisted around. Oh, this is a way better Ressurection of F than the movie, Freeza is a terrifying motherfucker.

Except that it quite explicitly doesn't matter. Goku falls on his rear end after his Trump card fails and by the end of the chapter it appears that Vegeta is the one knocking heads again.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:08

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:38

Caros: May 14, 2008

TFRazorsaw posted:

I meant the part about it being something you can imitate using other powers, and only failing because someone pulled a dirty trick. That still feels like it's taking the uniqueness out of it.

Ah, fair enough. I actually agree that it would be cooler if GoDs have something that sets them apart from all the critters running around with God Ki (which is now apparently everyone). If I were writing it I definitely wouldn't have Goku busting out an ability like that without some sort of foreshadowing, if ever.

I just get irked that people are surprised that Goku is doing a thing he has done at least a half dozen times since Dragonball, and claiming it is somehow impossible for him to have done so based on nothing more than their head canon of what they think Hakai, a heretofore completely unexplained ability, is.

I mean, you could literally have had this exact conversation about the Kamehameha, so it just seems silly to claim that it is impossible or that the manga is awful for including it.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:17

Caros: May 14, 2008

Serge Painsbourg posted:

This episode was worth it for this reaction alone.

Can't get a good screenshot on my phone, but Beerus' reaction to Goku and Freeza punching each other is also amazing.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:23

Caros: May 14, 2008

TFRazorsaw posted:

The kamehameha and Roshi are on a completely different level from the GoD powers, and it was relatively quickly disseminated throughout the entire cast. If everything special about a God of Destruction can be faked, then that's undermining Goku's attempts to reach and surpass Beerus.

But this all kind of falls apart when Goku shouldn't even know what "Hakai" even is. He's never seen Beerus use it, and him and Vegeta recognizing it with Goku able to make a bastardized version of it still undermines the integrity of it as a story. Even in the anime episode today he barely seems to recognize it, so I can't imagine this was in Toriyama's notes. It's an rear end pull because there's no prior set up for it.

My point in using the Kamehameha as an example is that Roshi was, at his introduction, on a completely different level from anything Goku could have mustered. Roshi spent decades mastering that attack and Goku copied it on sight. It should have been just as ridiculous to accept the idea of Goku copying Roshi's signature technique in an instant as it is for Goku to brute force his way into a facsimile of Beerus'. Goku literally learned to shoot lasers out of his hands, something completely foreign to him up until that point, by watching an old man do it once.

And again, maybe wait until the actual chapter comes out before assuming something is a plot hole. If you just saw the 'Heals Goku' image from last month's chapter out of context that would have looked like an enormous plot hole, but was actually pretty cleverly foreshadowed.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:34

Caros: May 14, 2008

Shards of Fate posted:

I have a gut feeling by the time this arc is over Frieza will no longer exist.

Freeza will be nice and cool and my friend. :ssj:

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:35

Caros: May 14, 2008

Screw jiren, I want to see this guy fight:

TFRazorsaw posted:

In what way was it foreshadowed? It still feels like something totally random and I've read the chapter.

Not really a spoiler since it is from last month. I'll give you a quick list.

Kibito and Shin defuse - Not entirely foreshadowing, but it is part of the plot. Shin can't heal because he is no longer fused with Kibito (who could).

Trunks becomes the disciple - At the time this seems like a cute little nod to why Beerus is dead and how Trunks dealt with Majin Buu. The setup for this is like ten chapters back from where it matters.

Zamasu - Unlike super Black doesn't just randomly power up. He gets Zenkais from Zamasu healing him every time he gets his rear end kicked. The only reason he can do this is because Zamasu isn't a real Kaioshin.

Mai and Gowasu - Both characters appear to 'die' at the cliffhanger of a chapter. Trunks runs over to cradle their dead bodies, but low and behold, they somehow aren't dead even though they should be. Looks like an asspull at the time but it is actually very clever foreshadowing to show how Trunks has been unintentionally using his healing ability.

The Super manga has a lot of flaws, but that aspect of it was really, really clever.

quote:

so wait, Trunks gained this ability without being aware of it?

Yeah. Shin is an idiot in every timeline.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:47

Caros: May 14, 2008

TFRazorsaw posted:

I'm still annoyed it exists, because it's seemingly there to put Goku back in fighting strength so he can be the main character, but I guess that's a little less random than I initially thought.

I also don't think that's something Trunks should just be able to get without being aware of it. Yeah, I know the anime has him mimic the spirit bomb, but that has very different thematic implications.

I'm still crossing fingers that it is his way to bullshit into SSJIDGAF.

From the look of the manga, Goku is out Vegeta is probably about to get jobbed again so it wouldn't surprise me if they all wear each other down to the point Trunks busts out some Kaioshin-Apprentice version of SSJ Blue and puts the screws to Zamasu to the point he has to become sky god and get vaporized by Zeno. If that happens.

Honestly I doubt Goku is going to be the hero in the final lap of the manga version of the fight, particularly since he just failed his big drat hero moment, but we'll see.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 03:56

Caros: May 14, 2008

Manatee Cannon posted:

what does power scaling mean

is it like really aggressively climbing a wall

Can't tell if your serious.

It is how people talk about the overall growth curve of power in Dragonball. Super doesn't give even a single gently caress trying to keep an sort of sensical power curve, so it is throwing the power level crowd into a tizzy.

Basically "Goku as SSJ3 was the strongest there is (other than Gohan). Then he got SSJGod which multiplied his power by AT LEAST 50x, if not more. Then he trained for three years as a SSJB, so now in his base form he is so much stronger than even end of DBZ Goku was at his best. Then you throw on KaioKen x10 on top of that and Goku is now *begins bleeding from the nose*"

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 04:02

Caros: May 14, 2008

TFRazorsaw posted:

It's not a "spergy argument".

Nothing is.

Coming from someone with autism, stop saying things like that.

Girlfriend has autism. Have to catch myself every time I start to type a slur like that (because I was and still am an imperfect human being). So thanks for saying this.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 04:05

Caros: May 14, 2008

lezard_valeth posted:

Or other way to put it Hakai Ki =/= Hakai or otherwise there would be no reason for Freeza not to attempt to kill Beerus on the spot after finding out he can no sell the instakill move.

Other than the fact that even without Hakai Beerus could still probably body him with zero effort.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 05:20

Caros: May 14, 2008

Manatee Cannon posted:

where does the 3 years come from

Goku spends three years with Vegeta in the hypersonic lion tamer before the U6 tournament. Its where we got bearded Goku from.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 07:33

Caros: May 14, 2008

CharlestheHammer posted:

Lol someone is arguing power levels were ever consistent.

Power Levels, as in the thing you get from scouters never were. In universe power scaling? It made sense within the rules given.

Pureauthor posted:

Goku trains for a year with King Kai: goes from Weaker-Than-RaditZ tier to Vegeta tier.

Goku trains for like a week in space: goes from Vegeta tier to 'clowning on entire Ginyu force tier'.

Goku gets beat up and healed once: Goes from 'clowning on Ginyu force' tier to 'matching 33% of Final Form Freeza' tier.

This is actually my point. Goku gets wrecked by Radditz, goes to train with someone new and comes back much stronger. Goku trains under extreme conditions (and abuses Zenkai) and gets very strong very fast and so forth. The specific numbers are stupid, but the internal logic is there. You know there is another level to reach, you devise some new method to reach it. Whether that is training in gravity, mastering super saiyan, ascending beyond, fusion, crazy ritual etc. Even Freeza gets substantially stronger, and we are given an in universe reason why that makes sense.

The only difference with Super is that it lacks a bunch of these, which leads to really, really weird interactions.

Goku fights Goku Black and clowns on him. Goku Black gets stronger for... reasons. Repeat for the entirety of the arc. Goku black is constantly powering up for reasons that are never adequately explained. He just is.

Goku gathers all of the various fighters, some of whom have drastically increased in strength in the course of an afternoon. Gohan went from being a chump to, apparently, being able to fight with SSJB Goku in the midst of an afternoon based on nothing more than Piccolo smacktalking him about how bad he sucked. Piccolo also somehow reached the ability to fight with a God Ki wielding character off screen. I guess. As did Tien, apparently.

Characters in dragonball have always increased their power by leaps and bounds in very short time periods. The difference with super is that in a lot of times they're not even bothering with the flimsy pretext. Whether that is good or bad is a different argument entirely.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 07:46

Caros: May 14, 2008

Shindragon posted:

Pretty good episode overall, it ends where you think it does.

So p much we are getting SSJ2 Gohan next ep probably

Most likely. I'm guessing that the next episode will probably take us to the end of the saga, judging by what they've done in the last two. A two or three parter that will tie everything up.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 01:10

Caros: May 14, 2008

sharktamer posted:

I've been nothing but honest

Like I said before, I like DBZ and for the most part I like talking about DBZ with most people in this thread. I like the humour in the show and even if I admit he's far from my favourite thing about the show, even Mr Satan can be really funny sometimes. Monaka was really funny too until certain people ruined him by applying the same loving boring cooker cutter joke to him too.

The "slice of life" episodes are good because they're rare and special and it's novel to see a complete decceleration of the usual premise of the show to see these planet destroyers do mundane tasks and completely fail because all they know how to do is punch each other. I don't agree with people who say they want Goku Vegeta and Frieza to become children and Beerus and Whis to have to babysit them for 100 loving episodes (like seriously what the gently caress?).

I find the comedy best when it's interspersed with the action though, the best thing about super is how there's all this action and these universe threatening threats but no one is taking anything the slightest bit seriously any more. It's what I like about this ridiculously childish show I watch.

I don't think it's a crazy notion to say that I like the actual show written by professional writers yet don't like these lame wannabe writer repetitive fan fiction elements. Everything is loving UNIRONICALLY slice of life fiction bullshit or constantly going on about Mr Satan or Monaka being the strongest and Yamcha being the weakest. Yet somehow I'm the repetitive one and the dishonest one.

DBZA sucks arse, I don't see how it can even count as an homage to the original show any more when most of the callbacks are no longer references to things that happened on the show but callbacks to their lovely self invented mythos (Mr Popo is the strongest, Kami smokes weed, Gohan hates his dad). That other weekly tube show does a far better job by not even pretending to be true to the show and even then it manages to do a better job of being an homage by accident. DBZA has become the smuggest self-important up its own arse rubbish.

I understand people like this humour and that's fine, but when any criticisms of the show are piled on, it's not really healthy for discussion. The last episode had a dude weed lmao joke and the one before had a reference to loving bare naked ladies for christs sake. Going back to dishonesty, a few people who like the show admitted that those were lame but then another people choose to convince themselves that it's the height of comedy because it's a REFERENCE or a CALLBACK or some bullshit. Once again, not a callback to DBZ itself but to their invented "funnier" versions of the characters from the show we're all actually fans of.

There's your actual response. That's all you're getting though, I'm gonna go back to just making GBS threads on everything you like (and pretend to like) though because most of you are awful.

Sir, this is a mcdonalds drive thru.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2017 16:32

Caros: May 14, 2008

Maple Leaf posted:

I thought it was because they knew they were writing themselves into a corner if they used Buu. He's incredibly overpowered - one of the strongest warriors in the universe; invulnerable to pain; invincible short of destroying his every last atom all at once; a master mimic, capable of learning any technique once he's seen it; can heal anyone from any injury provided they survive it; really, think of any bullshit power you can and Buu probably has it or can learn it, and all of those examples aren't including techniques that murder people, such as turning people into candy by the thousands or absorbing his foes with chunks of his body. The only reason he didn't immediately curbstomp the dogman is because he thought he was playing a game until Mr. Satan's injury properly motivated him.

Frieza is the better option for the drama and intrigue, but if the writers wanted Universe 7 to win, Buu would have allowed them to win virtually unchallenged, which wouldn't have made for an exciting story.

While I agree that Buu is fairly bullshit in a deathmatch, I think you are kind of overestimating how successful he'd be in the tournament. Buu suffers the same problem the U6 mooks did, he's easy to ring out if you are more powerful than him, and lots of people are more powerful than, or smarter than Buu. Yardrat guy dumps buu over the edge. Any of the strong Pride team members curbstomp him and roll him off the side while he is regenerating and so forth.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 05:27

Caros: May 14, 2008

Darko posted:

I laughed when half the team went off to do their own thing because they found the plan boring.

Best tournament would be if someone grabbing Goku and jumping off the ring with him at the beginning worked and he had to sit and watch the whole time.

Super Saiyan Blue (balls).

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 04:07

Caros: May 14, 2008

khwarezm posted:

Reddit, Youtube, various places, look at some of the top voted comments on this video for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANk4YWiOEgc
"hope they smack caulifa in the tournament and gogeta drops kale lmao"
"caulifla need to respect her elders"
"I want that Caulifla person to see Goku and Vegeta fighting serious and at full strength so she gets nervous and scared. I'm sick of how she thinks she's better than everyone. I hope it hits her hard that there are 2 other saiyans in front of her that outclass her completely."
"Lol Caulifla talking a lotta poo poo. Bitch, you JUST became a Super Saiyan a few hours ago. You in no position to talk poo poo. Goku and Vegeta will eat you alive."
"Goku goes SSB
Caulifla: Still wanna be friends?
Goku: No Punches Caulifla in the face"
"gently caress caulifla she a bitch"
"Caulifla is begging to get her rear end kicked"
"caulifa is hella disrespectful to my man goku. She needs to be put in her place"

etc.
I think some Dragonball fans might have a few issues.

Yes, because YouTube comments are famously indicative of a community, and not just generally a cesspit of the worst the world has to offer. I'm fairly certain you'd find people being lovely misogynists in Martha Stewart videos, and those aren't exactly aimed at teenagers who are notoriously lovely human beings.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2017 02:09

Caros: May 14, 2008

khwarezm posted:

Man, you have hundreds of people tripping over themselves to thumb up comments on how Caulifla should learn her place, and comparatively pretty much nobody is saying she's a cool badass or anything. I see the same to a lesser extent on Reddit, what else do I need to do to prove that there may be a slight bias against some of the ladies in the series among a lot of fans?

Address the fact that there is comparatively no one in this thread that is acting that way for starters? I presume everyone on this thread is a dragonball fan, yet no one is making lovely misogynistic comments about her. Its almost like reddit and youtube comments have a pretty lovely history of misogynistic and crappy comments regardless of subject matter.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2017 04:01

Caros: May 14, 2008

khwarezm posted:

Oh my god, sorry for questioning the integrity of the venerated Dragonball fandom my goon sir. I didn't say anything about Something Awful, but its a pretty loving small part of the dragonball 'Community' compared to somewhere like Reddit or Youtube you know and I have no interest in digging any further into this whole thing.

I'm just trying to understand how you managed to grow into a full fledged adult without realizing that Youtube comments are almost universally toxic as all poo poo, and that making sweeping statements about how every fan of a show is a misogynistic trash person because of what some idiots post on reddit is not indicative of the overall opinion of anyone other than those particular assholes.

That said, I thought you were actually the idiot who said this:

quote:

a vast majority of the fans loving hate women and jerk off to Videl being beaten up and would loathe to see a single one of them fight and hold their own against Power Levels

same poo poo different shonen

When you are merely the idiot who defended it. So you're not all bad, I guess.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2017 07:34

Caros: May 14, 2008

khwarezm posted:

If anyone's curious, some spoilers for upcoming episodes were released and I suspect Krillin might accidentally kill somebody! Also an odd twist with Caulifla that might annoy power level aficionados even more than her transformation to Super Saiyan 2.

Momomo posted:

The dub is only just barely getting into Goku and Frieza fighting, so while they're almost out of recap hell, they're still really far behind.

Gonna have to cough this up, I'm interested.

Supposedly Goku teaches Caulifla SSB in the middle of the fight after wasting all of U9, Krillin Kienzan's someone to death and gets DQed and Kale gets mooked by Jiren after losing her mind over Goku training Caulifla.

Personally I don't think it someone has to be a power level nerd to get annoyed that Dragonball Super seems to hand out new power ups like candy without effort or emotion on behalf of the characters getting them. But that is just me.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 17:30

Caros: May 14, 2008

khwarezm posted:

I have to admit its pretty funny that the one time he actually kills someone with the Destructo Disk is also the one time he really, really needs to not kill someone with it.

Gotta wonder why he leads with it though. Dude, that is the one skill you know will gently caress someone up. Why are you using it?!

Bonus points if he uses solar flare first.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 17:46

Caros: May 14, 2008

Burkion posted:

Also you want to see a good example of the bullshit we were talking about regarding Cauli?

Check out the comments.

Or don't because it's Reddit.

Do people somehow not know that Reddit is a cesspool of misogyny or something? They used to have /r/Jailbait for fucksake, is anyone really shocked that commenters on reddit say lovely things about women?

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 19:14

Caros: May 14, 2008

IcePhoenix posted:

aaaaa those spoilers I need these episodes to come out now

Also I hope Frieza has a suitably dickish response to Krillin straight up ending a dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXXTMcYvKoE&t=38s

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 20:42

Caros: May 14, 2008

Rutibex posted:

I like that the anime is making GBS threads all over the manga. According to the manga just transforming into the blue form eats up a huge chunk of stamina, which is why Vegita lost to Hit. But they seem to be doing it on and off for short bursts now lol

The anime and manga are doing two completely different things with their transformations. Not really one making GBS threads on the other.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2017 06:58

Caros: May 14, 2008

Ammat The Ankh posted:

Wait if Rou and Sidra really were dead/erased wouldn't the u9 angel "deactivate" or whatever? Plus what Zeno did didn't look like when Beerus uses Destruction. I'm calling shenanigans.

Babidi's minions are such jobbers, they might as well fight King Chappa again or whoever

It looked similar to whatever Zeno did to erase Trunks' universe. And they are 'inactive' which could be as simple as sitting around drinking tea and told not to interfere. It was made clear that the angels would be fine even if their universe was erased.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2017 08:46

Caros: May 14, 2008

lezard_valeth posted:

This is Toei's opportunity to make the whole thing go full circle and reveal that getting erased actually sends you to Another Dimension.

The next. Come on.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2017 09:15

Caros: May 14, 2008

Ocatamai posted:

and it'll be ok because we still have Gohan. Gohan will save everything.

Gohan is the strongest in the universe but still doesn't do crap.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2017 16:06

Caros: May 14, 2008

Nessus posted:

The Pride Troopers wouldn't necessarily be able to survive in space, nor would they have Instant Transmission, so Zamasu could probably planet-gank pretty effectively.

Yeah, this is probably the go to. Killing each individual mortal doesn't seem like it'd be particularly efficient. He probably has some sort of Buu style genocide attack, and if he senses a strong power he just blows the planet the hell up.

That or the authors didn't think it through. Either or.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2017 07:09

Caros: May 14, 2008

lezard_valeth posted:

I really hope Toyotaro remembers his "Trunks is a medic" bullshit come the Tournament of Power arc, cause by his own asspull Gohan is also a medic now making U7 unstoppable.

No he isn't. The manga is actually really explicit that the process to becoming the disciple of a supreme kai involves a stupid three hour dance similar to, but distinct from, the unlocking potential dance the Grand Kai uses on Gohan.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2017 01:46

Caros: May 14, 2008

TrilliontonNixon posted:

The most ridiculous part of that is how once someone advances past being a disciple they actually lose that power. Like what? How does that make any sense?

Considering the gods are intelligently designed, it could be as simple as something intended to limit their power. Same reason Kaioshin get access to Kai Kai teleport while Beerus has to take the slow road FTL.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2017 02:07

Caros: May 14, 2008

Blaze Dragon posted:

No it isn't. It literally just says that Trunks went through a long-rear end dance to get that power. It's pretty blatantly meant to make you think of the same Gohan underwent, because Toyotaro for all his flaws has near-perfect memory of everything that happened in the series (much unlike Toriyama himself). If that genuinely doesn't pay off and Gohan doesn't show healing powers I'll be really disappointed, because it means Toyotaro can't even make his asspulls consistent.

Except that with his encyclopedic knowledge he'd probably also known that Shin is an idiot who doesn't have the slightest idea how to unlock potential, as evidenced by the fact that he freaked the hell out when Elder Kai said he could do it. And he'd probably also have the same knowledge that shows that the end result of Unlock Potential, is, ya know, unlocked potential. Trunks didn't show off any mystic form or anything else. Its way more likely that the Kaio-shin do things via ceremonial dances than that Trunks got the same powerup as gohan yet struggled against frickin Dabura.

quote:

Though considering Gowasu and Shin are bad at their job, it could be that Kaioshin are supposed to be able to heal and they're just too donkey brained to know how.

Also entirely true. Shin does suggest it is a power he lost when he became Supreme Kai however, and Gowasu seems reasonably on the ball about his own power set, at least.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2017 04:29

Caros: May 14, 2008

Shindragon posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEoYVMybtI

skip to 2:37

I love the Super Dub

New freeza is so bad.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2017 01:44

Caros: May 14, 2008

TrilliontonNixon posted:

Online Anime Community: Still Garbage

Someone claims that people dislike Caulifla based on gender, and people respond with multiple variations of "No, we dislike her because the way she is gaining power boosts to put her on par with the main cast is lazy and cheapens their accomplishments"

I'm sure you could find actual examples of people being misogynistic as gently caress because, you know, reddit. But I'm not sure what exactly you thought you were proving here.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2017 05:27

Caros: May 14, 2008

TrilliontonNixon posted:

What do power levels even measure? How much you can lift? How fast you are? And what about skill? Can a more experienced fighter have a higher PL than a less experienced one, even if they're not as physically strong? I mean Freeza wasn't as skilled as Goku, but his PL was way higher. So is it just how much ki you can produce?

Ki. It goes up and down as fighters raise and lower their Ki. A fighter with a higher Ki will have stronger attacks, move faster and so on and so forth, even if there are variances between different people (Burter being the fastest man in the universe, for example). Skill doesn't seem to play any role in it, though to be honest overall skill at fighting was a very tenuous concept at best in early dragonball, and a totally ignored one in Z.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 22:22

Caros: May 14, 2008

TrilliontonNixon posted:

Isn't ki just life force? Seems pretty weird to be able to measure something like that. "Your soul has 9001 strength points."

It is clearly more than just life force though. You can compress it into an energy beam that can vaporize mountains. Seems like that is the sort of thing that you could probably measure.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 22:36

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:38

Caros: May 14, 2008

a cartoon duck posted:

A large part of power levels mattering is also because of antagonists becoming increasingly resilient more than anything. Freeza's deal initially was just being leagues ahead in terms of power but he shrugged off being cut in half like it's no thing. Then we got androids who never tire so you either win in the first thirty seconds or lose a war of attrition, Cell who can survive as long as a speck of him is left and Buu being able to shrug off anything short of complete and total annihilation. Zamasu arguably is taking this to its logical conclusion of just being so impervious to anything that just getting even huger power levels isn't going to change things so all that's left in is bringing a baby to toss him out instead.

Obviously power levels are a thing, but they're not the most important thing so long as your opponents can shrug off the planet exploding. Hell if we know what Hit's power level is but there's a case to be made it's lower than Vegeta Blue's but since Vegeta is just a normal flesh-and-blood person Hit can just punch him in the heart until he drops, while that woudn't work as well on, say, Buu.

It also kinda goes the other way with opponents like Botamo and Magetta who have the resilience of DBZ villains but not the fire power, so they wouldn't be universe-ending threats but could beat Vegeta anyway.

What I'm saying is the invincible Bota Magetta will win this tournament and save the day.

I really hope the end result of that fight is Vegeta pantomiming insults at Magetta.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2017 01:16

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Dragon Ballz megathread: French Goku

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