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There's going to be wars in the stars, and below the stars. But not between stars because movies are a team effort and we don't have time for your ego, Mr. Ford
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Oct 25, 2015 01:08
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LinkesAuge posted:Such meta stuff is just annoying and not "funny" at all and even thinking anyone would actually write a story like this says a lot more about the people who are themselfs obsessed with other people obsessing... Actually it sounds great and I hope the movie is all about people trying to reenact the OT.
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Oct 28, 2015 14:46
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's kind of annoying when someone hates that thing that got that famous and rich. Why won't these people like what I like 
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Nov 29, 2015 00:23
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Groovelord Neato posted:lmao. you're defending obscenely rich people being crabs about what made them obscenely rich. This is actually just sadder. Of course they should like it, it made money for them. Money is how you know what to like.
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Nov 29, 2015 10:34
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Escobarbarian posted:There's nothing wrong with someone disliking the thing that made them rich. I think the thing people are complaining about are people acting like curmudgeonly-rear end bitches whenever they are asked about it or it is mentioned to them. They've been worshipped by a creepy cult of awkward assholes since before a lot of people here were born. And yet the problem is with them.
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Nov 29, 2015 12:28
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 17:45
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Zeris posted:How can anyone take that pastebin seriously holy gently caress Because it's beautiful "If you want to rescue her, I'm in. But... I'm going to need a ride."
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Apr 14, 2016 21:43
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The meta-twist that the mysteries are irrelevant is just an admission that there never could be an interesting answer. The answers fans (and CNN for some reason) were offering showed this pretty well: the answer to Rey's parentage could only ever be banal, and Snoke could only ever be a nobody because there's no way he was Mace Windu or Darth Plagueis. This is why the praise for the meta-twist rings so hollow - once you admit that there is no mystery, you've killed the (pseudo-)romance in Star Wars, and all you have is even more banal space adventure. An actual twist would require upending some basic, fundamental truth of the story. Darth Vader being Luke's heroic father completely tore the premise apart, because it was no longer clear who was good and who was evil. "[Character from previous movies] dies" in itself is not a twist - now Rey dying in the middle of the movie would be. Another real twist would be, for example, the Resistance turning out to the bad guys that audiences have been gormlessly cheering on, because it would upend the premise of the movies. It would also be a good twist, because it still builds on what's come before: we've never actually been given a reason why the Resistance is supposedly good. They represent Hope, but so did the Obama administration, and that got basically nowhere. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 02:15
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The obvious problem wiith that is that there are no heroes who inspire hope (for what?) in these movies. There are only bad guys, some of whom offer false democracy and some of whom offer authoritarianism.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:26
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Darth Walrus posted:Heroes are important, but only insofar as they create and preserve more heroes. You beat the bad guys by shrinking them into relative irrelevance, and for that, you need numbers. This is some of the most nihilistic stuff I've read.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:35
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You beat the bad guys by shrinking them into relative irrelevance, and for that, you need warm bodies.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:46
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:The First Order blew up six planets and killed presumably trillions of people? They kidnap children and train them to be mindless, obedient footsoldiers. And that's AFTER the Empire blew up one planet with billions and murdered and oppressed countless more. Your definition for bad guys is that they kill people and indoctrinate followers. This also describes the supposed "good guys". This was pointedly displayed in 1978 with the ironic ending of Star Wars. The goodies triumph over the fascist-style baddies by blowing up their planet and then celebrating in a ceremony that recalls Triumph of the Will. Then the prequels confirmed the suspicion that the Rebels aren't fighting for democracy, just for restoring the power and privileges they lost under the Emperor. Darth Walrus posted:How do you think democracy works? Political victories aren’t won by individual fates, but by convincing the public of the viability and righteousness of your cause. The entire purpose of the system is to diminish the damage any one bad actor can do by empowering and inspiring the many (and making their lives better in the process). Notice at no point do you actually make reference to what cause makes the the Rebels/Resistance righteous. They're just idiots chasing after a false pre-Imperial utopia. The reality is that it's "the system" that's the true evil, not the bad actors within it. Darth Walrus posted:On a semi-related note, one bit of the film’s collectivist attitude that really stood out to me was its depiction of the dark side. It’s undoubtedly powerful, but as philosophically deep as a puddle - it offers no insight into others, only endless reflections of yourself. This also describes the "light side". BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 07:43
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That's terrible characterization.
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Dec 16, 2017 11:01
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Like, the First Order are founded and commanded by Snoke, a guy who pretty much spends his entire screen time getting his kicks from humiliating those around him. These are the principles the First Order runs on. They are not a cold, calculating and efficient military, they're sadistic bastards who find true victory in breaking their opponent's will and terrifying them. Mr. Flunchy posted:And anyway, not that when Snoke's out of the picture the First Order tactics immediately change. They try and loving obliterate Luke the second they see him as they're now a tool of Kylo's rage rather than Snoke's sadism. Your definition of good characterisation is that the villains are violent. In truth the Empire and the First Order have always been very callow baddies. Their evil isn't based on ideology or class. There's no real weight or meaning to their actions, they simply commit atrocities to further the cause of.... a centralized state? A counter-example can be found in The Hidden Fortress. The occupying army is harsh and sadistic, but its evil actions are also utterly banal. This serves the story because the real moral conflict is within the heroes, while the good-and-evil struggle of the Sequel Trilogy is completely vapid. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 11:19
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Mr. Flunchy posted:If the Empire/First Order were merely violent they'd be terrible villains. The reason they work is because they're obsessed with projecting force to enact cruelty and inspire terrified awe in their opponents. I mean, you get that they're space Nazis right? Were the Nazis 'just' violent? Again, you're definition of good characterization is that the villains are violent. Both the heroes and villains of Star Wars "project [F]orce," "enact cruelty," and "inspire terrified awe in their opponents" - one side just does it more consciously. On the commentary track of Phantom Menace, George Lucas compares the Jedi fighting the Trade Federation to Godzilla crushing humans. Good characterisation might include some distinct ideology for the villains to represent, but as has been long established, both the heroes and villains of Star Wars are just two sides of the same coin. They both are the Republic, and the Republic is evil, as symbolized by its elected leader revealing his true face as a Satanic monster. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 11:31
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I also agree that it's a flaw in these movies that they never actually define the ideologies and endgoals of the opposing sides, but you can interpret them from the actions of the various characters so it's just fuzzy rather than ignored. Ah, what good characterization - never defining ideologies or goals of characters.
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Dec 16, 2017 11:40
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Yeah, it's a flaw. I agree with you. You're right. So the motiveless sadism is also a flaw?
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Dec 16, 2017 11:48
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Mr. Flunchy posted:No, the fact that the characters are sadistic informs their characterisation, but that characterisation is not limited to this aspect. Without any ideology or comprehensible political stance, their characterisation is in fact limited to sadism.
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Dec 16, 2017 11:58
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Mr. Flunchy posted:They're space Nazis. Fascism is their political stance. There's no indication that they're fascist, only generically authoritarian. They dress up similarly to Nazis, but the heroes of Star Wars also get medals in a ceremony recalling Triumph of the Wll. This would make them about as fascist as the villains. Empire Strikes Back revealed the horrible truth that there are no real heroes or villains in the universe.
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Dec 16, 2017 12:06
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that while the central conflict in TLJ is old versus new, it doesn’t take a side, instead pushing for reconciliation. I mean, Yoda’s speech lays it out pretty explicitly, and is backed up by no less than three intersecting plot lines where the main characters don’t shut the gently caress up and listen to people with actual experience until it’s too late, only to get their asses saved by someone they’d maligned, overlooked, and underestimated in one of the movie’s most spectacular moments of heroism. Those who inflexibly side with the old ways (the resort planet, Snoke) are maintaining a powerful but fragile order built on cruelty,and will have their asses wrecked by the new potential they’re suppressing without ever seeing it coming. Kylo’s throne room speech, on the other hand, drives to the heart of the callous, shortsighted solipsism of a new world with no regard for the old - only I matter, only my actions can shape the world, and only my pleasures and my glories are worth pursuing. 5 Reasons Why We Need To Watch Out For Millenials
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Dec 16, 2017 14:04
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Darth Walrus posted:That’s a pretty aggressive misreading of my post. Star Wars has always been about accepting people who can empathise and fighting people who can’t It hasn't. Star Wars has been always about slave-owners.
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Dec 16, 2017 14:57
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The kids playing out the scene of the movie is just self-referential backpatting, telling us that the events of the movie are totally Cool and Important. As a whole the movie is just an Operation Margarine story, starting out by criticizing an institution and then defying those criticisms by underlining how great the institution is in spite of itself.. Sure the Jedi kind of suck when you think about it, but still, wouldn't it be nice to have telekinesis and fight bad guys? That's why the movie ends with the promise that any kid could get magic powers, moving towards a Harry Potter fantasy.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:08
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Luke had to die because the film is about individualism vs collectivism. His thematic arc is going from living in hiding on an isolated rock cut off from the Force to willingly becoming one with it. At the end, his Force projection hijinks make him understand that his physical actions are nothing compared with what he can do from within the collective flow of the Force. He reaches nirvana and transcends. The Force is an incredibly lame religion. It would have been better to remove all the magic power bullcrap.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:11
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Jedi-ism and Sith-ism are lame religions. The Force objectively exists. Your definition of the Force religion is using magic powers to achieve nirvana. It's a very insipid interpretation of religion, and one of the reasons Star Wars is crap.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:17
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I gotta ask, why did you go see the movie at all? That is how you find out what a movie is like.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:23
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Fair enough, but if you think the central (kinda) principle of the franchise is crap then maybe there's not much here for you? There are Star Wars movies that have handled the Force well. The Prequels showed that Force powers are just a weapon for aristocratic morons who got themselves destroyed. Rogue One had a man powered by religious conviction who managed to be surpass the Jedi without light-sabres or magic tricks, underlining how bad the Jedi are.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:31
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cargohills posted:“General Hux has no character and he’s treated like a fool!” I’ve got a bombshell here, lads: Hux’s character is the funny bits. He’s ambitious and frequently clowned on, just like Krennic, but when Hux gets clowned on the film’s doing it for a laugh. Hux has a character and you just don’t like it. It’s fine to admit that you don’t like something without acting like you’re objectively right about it. It's not very good characterisation.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:14
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cargohills posted:This doesn’t mean anything but “I don’t like it”. It's a basic and true observation actually. It's bad because the baddies are supposed to be both incompetent clowns and overwhelming force. This is the kind of doublethink Umberyo Eco identified as one of the basic ingredients of fascism, and Star Wars movies tend to be highly fascistic.
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Dec 17, 2017 15:21
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Nephthys posted:Donald Trump is the President of the United States and is one of the most bizarrely incompetent people alive. You seem to be fantasizing that the Republicans are the First Order.
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Dec 17, 2017 15:33
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Nephthys posted:But he still managed to bully his way into the most powerful position on Earth. You are fantasizing that a bunch of loathsome political activists are the equivalent of Nazi Germany and a massive authoritarian sci-fi space state.
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Dec 17, 2017 15:45
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From Botnik Studios:  just another posted:The message is to be motivated by love (ie. the light side) and not hate (ie. the dark side). This is not a "centrist" message. The light side that promotes love doesn't exist. The heroes of Star Wars have never fought for love. In almost every movie the heroes have been idiots who imagine that they're on a crusade against evil. Sometimes the diegetic universe of the movies agrees with this statement, more so in the sequel movies. With the Last Jedi, the conflict has become preserving Star Wars itself from people who would end it: Kylo Ren declares that he will destroy the Jedi, Sith, and the rest - in other words, stupid institutions of Star Wars. He's basically saying that he is going to end Star Wars itself so that something else can be born in its place. This is why hope is symbolized by a kid putting on the Official Star Wars Decoder Ring (Resistance Side). When Rose talks about saving what you love, she means saving a Star Wars hero - she's explicitly introduced as a fan. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 01:28
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just another posted:Okay but on the other hand, Rose's message is that you should be motivated by love and not hate. This is not a "centrist" message. It is worse than that - it's a corporate message.
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Dec 26, 2017 09:38
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Turtlicious posted:I really enjoyed the new star wars movie, I thought the over-arching theme was about how the older generations are near irredeemable poo poo heads, and you have to fight for what you personally believe in. There's nothing to indicate that the new generation also aren't irredeemable poo poo heads, like how Finn and Rose leave children into slavery so that they can go protect their facile resistance movement. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 11:29
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Turtlicious posted:Where would they take them? Into the active War Zone where people are dying by the dozens? Away all Goats posted:Yeah it would have been much better to bring them back to the resistance fleet so they can get blown up on one of the transports The true answer would be simply to free the slaves, and forget about the stupid Resistance. The actual injustice is happening on the casino planet, and it turns out the Resistance didn't even need Finn or Rose. Phantom Menace also featured the Jedi ignoring slavery, except when they could recruit someone into their bullshit. This is what happens in The Last Jedi: Finn and Rose don't really care about slavery, but create a sympathizer for their false cause.
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Dec 26, 2017 11:38
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Mullitt posted:I seriously can't believe people are nitpicking the coolest spaceship scene in a Star Wars movie. It's a question of aesthetic discontinuity. Physics have been introduced in the quasi-naval engagements of Star Wars, and this undermines them. The attack is even presented as a giant breach that tears the visuals apart. Also it's done by a purple-haired liberal socialite, which is a waste. It should have been Kylo Ren who ordered a kamikaze attack on the Resistance, because he's the character that wants to destroy old institutions.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:36
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Mullitt posted:This doesn't undermine anything. This wasn't an ideological kamikaze attack, it's a desperate move by a character who's watching everyone she knows get blown up. The character is a leader in a military uprising. It's by definition an ideological act. The reason it doesn't seem like that is because the character's ideology is vague establishment liberalism, so the attack is incongruous. Mullitt posted:In many ways it's a logical extension of the more physical, weighty spaceships we've seen in the new Star Wars films. This kinda stuff wasn't possible with the old film making technology in the OT and the prequels went a more cartoony direction with the space battle. You seem to have imagined a point where Star Wars was not cartoony in all respects.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:02
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just another posted:What does that even mean? The movie is basically about how people relate to Star Wars the franchise, for example when Luke Skywalker talks about himself as a fictional character. A disillusioned character talk about how terrible and insubstantial the pre-Disney movies are, while the hopeful admirer counters that they should go back to them. The idea of religion giving you power to move rocks is dismissed as shallow and stupid, but it turns out that using religion to move rocks is cool and good. The villain wants to get rid of all the stupid bullshit in the Star Wars franchise like the Jedi. When everyone keeps talking about how they're the spark that will set the fire of rebellion, it means that they will give birth to a more perfect fandom, symbolized by young new Star Wars fans playing with merchandise. Rose is in awe when she gets to meet Resistance hero Finn. When she says that she loves Finn, she means that she's a fan. She doesn't love child slaves, which is why they're left behind. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 21:44
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just another posted:This doesn't answer my question. You're reaching. I answered your question why it was a corporate message. What Rose loves is the franchise, so she saves part of it. It's a message to love Star WarsTM.
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Dec 26, 2017 22:07
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just another posted:
"...ignite interest... concrete action and bold leadership..." You do realize that you're writing in the language of marketing and corporate bureaucratese, right? You have been blinded by the power of Capitalism. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 10:22
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Vitamin P posted:The resistance are antifa so they are coded as being leftist, also they are good and cool and caring so also leftists. I don't know how you're getting that the child soldiers nazi no-aliens-allowed FO aren't fascist. The resistance are not actually cool and caring. They're idiots who leave children into slavery so that they can go back to protecting their military assets. The First Order are a propagandistic vision of revolutionary leftism, just like how the Empire was a propagandistic vision of the Soviet Union. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 11:39
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