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bhsman posted:Unless that art can be found elsewhere on a non-Wizards site, those are likely real. This is the conclusion that i've come to, as well. If that art isn't Aleksi Briclot's, it's a very good style parody, and that doesn't match any known art.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:31
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This isn't Oath of the Gatewatch, but it's even crazier: Keith Adams, The Misprint Guy, recently acquired of the documentation and playtest cards for a Magic set that never saw print, called Spectral Chaos from their original creator, Barry Reich. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaOh-EqNYvE It's a super interesting watch, and it's crazy to see something like this finally come to light 20 years later.
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Nov 18, 2015 08:57
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Ramos posted:I'd just like to see to a list of all of the cards. It'd be fun to see what it could have done to change a lot of Magic. He says he's going to get full scans / a full card list up eventually. There's also apparently going to be a full-length documentary on it, which i'd recommend checking out as well. Angry Grimace posted:The downside is that you would have to rewrite pretty much every single card to say "T: Add ♦ to your mana pool," but almost nothing would actually use ♦ outside of some stuff in Battle for Zendikar block. In that sense you create more ambiguity, not less, since new player might want to know what's up with this random symbol that never does anything. Well, there's no knowing this for sure, is there? I wouldn't be surprised if it wound up evergreen, just as a way to push cards for 1 and 2-color strategies. Niton fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 10:23
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Angry Grimace posted:The existence of the symbol might be evergreen, but I doubt you would see colorless mana mattering very often because colorless mana itself not actually mattering is what defines it outside of sets with Eldrazi in them. I think there's a decent amount of room, honestly. One obvious branch is hybrid Color/Colorless costs, but it's also just a nice design tool to make cards that are hard to cast specifically for 3 and 4 color decks. e: As it stands, we have one major recurring villain where Colorless definitely matters (Eldrazi), one where it easily could (Phyrexians), and a few plot lines where it could show up as either an allied or enemy aligned ability (Ugin, Nahiri, Garruk). I would be pretty surprised if we didn't see any of those within the next two blocks, and any new enviroments could similarly have reasons for Colorless to exist as a specific concept. Niton fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 11:22
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Chamale posted:What list would you build? I was thinking about this a bit last night, and what I came up with was something like this: //Lands 17 2 Evolving Wilds 7 Island 6 Forest 2 Swamp //Creatures 12 2 Armored Skaab 2 Selhoff Occultist 2 Dawntreader Elk 2 Deranged Assistant 2 Screeching Skaab 1 Falkenrath Noble 1 Tower Geist // Spells 11 2 Mulch 2 Silent Departure 2 Forbidden Alchemy 2 Gnaw to the Bone 1 Spider Spawning 1 Memory's Journey 1 Runic Repetition e: BFZ would actually be kind of insane, too. Niton fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 17:15
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Chamale posted:A Falkenrath Noble and a Tower Geist? These are actually really good ideas! I was fixating on commons looking for replacements, so I wasn't even thinking of uncommon options.
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Nov 19, 2015 17:27
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Skyl3lazer posted:I'm actually shocked they capped a constructed gp at 60$. Like I'm going and it's actually just the worst fun + worst value to play the main event. Bitcoin didn't rise of out the ashes of the Magic The Gathering Online eXchange because Magic players are good at risk assessment, you know.
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Nov 19, 2015 19:24
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Has Rogue Deck Building Gone Too Far?? (click for context)
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Nov 20, 2015 00:45
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The Lord of Hats posted:I think if you're setting out to tone down its explosiveness without outright killing the deck, Simian Spirit guide is a good target; that card is never going to do anything fair ever, and now you've cut off the turn one kill, and just generally slowed things down. Otherwise you could maybe target Hive Mind so it has to win through the red zone. Banning SSG also significantly hurts the Fair And Interactive combo deck Grishoalbrand, which does reasonable things like win on T1 or T2 through the aid of SSG.
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Nov 22, 2015 18:17
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mehall posted:Unban bloodbraid. BBE is a known quantity and I don't think Wizards particularly wants it back. Not because of power level reasons (though, BBE + KCommand  ), but because BBE warps the way you construct your deck in some pretty unhealthy ways.
Niton fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 19:01
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Lets Pickle posted:Unban Bloodbraidf Elf and Green Sun's Zenith, then you have to choose which one to put in your green deck. Just play both and Dryad Arbors, clearly. Also Leonin Arbiter is kind of gross. e: jesus christ, there is no just world where you should be able to win off a topdeck like that. I can accept Scapeshift, Living End, etc topdecking in that sense, because they're all in on the combo.. but Splinter Twin definitely is not. Niton fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 21:20
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Angry Grimace posted:Someone of them seem impossible to template without making the text box look like Demonic Consultation. Not sure how you'd even template a card that makes basic lands produce enemy colors AND nonbasics produce produce colorless. It's a blatantly unprintable card to begin with (it's Blood Moon and a Blood Moon variant for basics at the same loving time). Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land for mana, it produces colorless mana instead of any other type.. If tapped for mana, Plains produce {R/B}, Islands produce {R/G}, Swamps produce {W/G}, Mountains produce {W/U}, and Forests produce {U/B} instead of any other types. vvv That's a better templating. Niton fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 19:58
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Ramos posted:Wait, Mangara's a dude? It's right in the name! He's not called Womangara, is he?
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Nov 24, 2015 23:00
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Elyv posted:it's the juxtaposition with the creature type I'm imagining a tiny pomeranian samurai that generates an EMP fiend with its fluffiness
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Nov 26, 2015 20:39
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BJPaskoff posted:I can't wait to see how they retcon werewolves back in. DFCs are definitely coming back. Half the reason we're going back to Innistrad so soon is that DFCs were so popular that they wanted to bring them back ASAP. The other half is that Innistrad's themes resonated with players very well, so they knew the set would sell amazingly. Wolfir who transform back into humans? e: or humans that can swap freely/peacefully
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Dec 2, 2015 21:15
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Cernunnos posted:If you want to talk about the complexity of poo poo in Time Spiral block why don't you actually post complex cards. Ichor Slick isn't actually that complex, either? Aside from the oddity of Madness exiling, Cycling and Madness interact exactly how you'd expect them to, and are actually a really cool combination of keywords. Knight of Sursi is some bullshit, though.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:09
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sarmhan posted:Yea, it's not that ichor slick is literally impossible to figure out (although it is complicated by the final casting mode not actually being spelled out on the card), it's that it comes up fairly often in a set full of headscratchers across all rarities. You can open up a pack of timespiral and have to read most of the cards in the pack to understand what they actually do. little munchkin posted:Processing the two abilities, the thing the card actually does, the 4 possible mana costs, and the different effect you get from each mode is a lot of mental energy to spend on a single card. After all that you still need to put it all together and evaluate whether the card is good or not. Doing that 14 times seems exhausting. I agree the design is great though. Yeah, that's fair - I grew up with both Madness and Cycling, so it really pops to me, but you definitely have to read it a couple of times to really "get" it if you've never seen it before. I still think Ichor Slick would be fine to reprint at common in the right set, though - it works exactly like you think it does, and that counts for a lot when dealing with complexity issues. Irony Be My Shield posted:I would also like to point out that there's an extra part to flanking no-one has mentioned yet but which could plausibly come up in games. It seems like a pretty bad mechanic to not reminder. Yeah, Flanking is absolutely nothing like Bushido, a similar-looking mechanic introduced two blocks earlier - Flanking only works while attacking, only works when the defending creature doesn't have flanking, and triggers once for each blocking creature. That's a really complex ability to not have reminder text. Niton fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 01:08
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Should we ban top? Why shouldn't we ban top? ban top and let players trade them in for boosters, then burn all tops destroyed this way
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Dec 4, 2015 23:39
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Sickening posted:I am pretty sure I saw him on camera in round 4. Are you sure he dropped? He definitely did not drop, as of round 5 he's 3-2.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:39
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Sickening posted:Remember the last guy that always won except on camera? He just won on camera, too! He made top 8 thanks to it. SCGDEN Standard Open Top 8: Logan Mize, Todd Anderson, Paul Bradford, Tom Ross, Lee Marino, Vikram Kudva, Joe Lossett, Zach Mandelblatt
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Dec 6, 2015 23:40
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Attorney at Funk posted:Have they ever made this kind of errata mid-block before? Does Shadowmoor count? Even then, this is a functional change on exactly zero cards - all cards which use generic mana will continue to use generic mana, and all cards which produce any amount of colorless mana will continue to produce exactly that amount of colorless mana.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:49
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Admiral posted:But I liked BfZ? If it makes you feel better: Most of the lands widely agreed on to be Magic's most powerful (Fetchlands, Original Duals and Shocks, as well as Battle Lands) do nothing to help you cast any cards with Colorless mana costs, so you will have to change the construction of your mana base to accommodate Colorless cards.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:24
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Angry Grimace posted:Most lands period don't let you do that. If ♦ cards are actually good there's a decent chance you could see mana bases scaled back from the current 4/5 color super-greed to run painlands. That's the point - if they're smart enough to keep {D} evergreen, they've found a way to permanently claw back against the power of 4C/5C manabases.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:42
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Chill la Chill posted:I'm just looking forward to the broken legacy card that uses <> in a format of wastelands and cities of traitors, forcing them to dial back the effects and taking away the nice things again. I don't think they give a poo poo, do they? Legacy isn't a consideration, and they'll just ban if they go overboard. If they cared about non-Standard formats at all, Delve would never have gotten the nod to return.
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Dec 7, 2015 05:28
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Elyv posted:To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with colorless mana being diamond mana and actually think it's a good idea, but that statement was just not true. Many, then! I was thinking of it in the sense of Fetches, Duals and Shocks being 30 total lands, and those 30 lands are a pretty huge chunk of Legacy's land base right now. e: of Legacy's 50 most played lands right now, 11 are capable of tapping for colorless mana and 19 are either fetches or duals. Of the top 15 nonbasics, only Wasteland can tap for colorless mana (though quite a few more are in the top 25). Niton fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 08:15
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Eikre posted:lol no it won't A more reasonable counter-argument: The best reason to use Colorless mana as an evergreen mechanic is to make it more difficult to cast certain spells using a mana base consisting of Fetches (which cannot fetch a colorless-producing land) alongside Basics and Duals/Shocks (which do not have the ability to produce colorless mana). Allowing all basics to produce colorless mana turns them into de facto dual lands for players trying to cast a spell that costs {C}{U}{U} in their Blue/Black deck, an (almost certainly) unwanted net gain in the power of Fetchlands.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:16
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Lancelot posted:Is Ken Nagle literally the most consistently bad designer of ever? I really don't like Ken Nagle, but I think we tend to hear a lot more about his successes than his failures because his failures are so outlandish.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:46
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:Yes, it does. A green creature taps for G, and a colourless creature taps for ◇, and you can use either of those to pay the 1 in a cost. You can only use G to pay G, and you can only use ◇ to pay ◇. Colorless is not a color. Colorless is the absence of color. This is up there with "Wastes is real, but other basics should tap for ◇ as well as their colors too, to make it easier for new players!" as far as misunderstandings go. odiv posted:As written you just can't pay ◇ with convoke, right? And that's fine and seems pretty apparent to me, but whatever. Yeah, as written, Convoke produces a Colored Mana or a Generic Mana. It's probably fixable, but I don't know if it's actually worth fixing.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:57
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:So, do Wastes only tap for DIAMOND mana? They doesn't tap for what we call "colorless" (2)BB right? For that you still need BB and 2 of any land except Wastes? Generic Mana is mana of any color or colorless mana. All colorless mana generators will continue to produce colorless mana as they currently do - there is no mana source which produces Generic Mana.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:16
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End of Life Guy posted:Let's say I exile a new Kozilek with Daxos, of Meletis. Do you think I could cast it with only green mana? I don't think you would be able to - one of Daxos' rulings is: quote:9/15/2013: You must pay all costs to cast the exiled card. You may pay alternative or additional costs. If the card has any mandatory additional costs, you must pay those. Daxos allows you to spend all mana as White, Blue, Black, Red or Green mana, but doesn't allow you to ignore any other mana costs that might be associated with the card, which (assumedly) Colorless mana counts as.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:22
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Are we assuming that the Wastes also produce generic mana? If so, then do when what is their point at all? There is no actual gameplay mechanic called Generic Mana. Nothing can tap for Generic Mana, nor can Generic Mana be added to your mana pool through a card's effect. Generic Mana is a simply a rules term which means Mana from any mana-producing source which can legally be used to pay for this spell or ability.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:25
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Gensuki posted:So casting Kozilek would cost 8 mana of any color, and then two colorless, if cast with Daxos? I believe so - Kozilek's mana cost says "two mana must be colorless", so I think it would be similar to how you can only use basic lands to cast Imperiosaur off of Daxos. Lieutenant Centaur posted:
Wastes are a basic source of Colorless mana - this allows them to be fetched by cards like Evolving Wilds, Cultivate, or Pilgrim's Eye, and it allows you to have any number of them in a constructed deck. This is important because it allows you to treat Colorless as a pseudo-color for balance reasons, rather than a curiosity - it would be very difficult to construct (for example) a Colorless/Green deck if you had to rely entirely on nonbasic lands for fixing. Niton fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 22:32
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:The more I understand it seems like a stupid mechanic to cater to the EDH crowd so they can have a true colorless manabase so they don't have to use dumb poo poo like Desert, Quickstand etc etc. They can just run 35 Wastes and be done with it. Colorless can never be balanced in Limited without some method of fixing for it. Having a Colorless equivalent to fetch off of Evolving Wilds is an important part of making it interesting in limited. cheetah7071 posted:If colorless costs stick around for more than a set, or are good enough to see significant play, it'll be interesting that all of a sudden a whole bunch of old dual lands are now trilands. And, importantly, the ones which are now trilands are (aside from Grove of the Burnwillows and Twilight Mire) not really anyone's first choice currently.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:39
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:It's starting to become clear now. So you can use 10 Wastes if you desire to cast New Kozy. Yeah, a Wastes is fundamentally identical to any other basic, except it taps for ◇ instead of W, U, B, R, or G, because it lacks the land types to do any of those things.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:54
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Sigma-X posted:I think it's really stupid because it's a backdoor 6th color for bullshit reasons and fucks with templating with zero actual designspace gain that isn't a parasitic 6th color, and furthermore their marquee 6th color card is something that historically has not been a 6th color thing and that was the whole point of them. How does it feel to be the old man that hates all change? The upside is pretty obvious - it allows them to print cards which work better in 2 or 3 color strategies than in 4c/5c ones, rather than just being assimilated into the Omnideck. A card that costs (for example) ◇BG is effectively a triple-color-cost card, without actually being three colors.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:02
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Kalli posted:I wonder if they'll actually print a spreading seas equivalent of wastes. Waste Land confirmed.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:11
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stinkles1112 posted:Oh yeah I forgot what thread I was reading The unicode for it is & #9671; If you remove the space, you get ◇
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Dec 8, 2015 23:25
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Sigma-X posted:♦BG is not cost-wise different than WBG, which is why I'm calling it a backdoor 6th color. It's exactly the same functionality as another color, and it's being done for bad reasons (supporting their bad colorless flavor for eldrazi this go around). The WBG card can be cast off of a mana base consisting of Fetches and Shocklands, with a couple of basics of each type. The ♦BG card cannot. The fact that ♦ cannot be produced by fetchable duals is a very significant point, and not one that I expect to change at any time in the near future. Yes, the design space is obviously that of a sixth color, but a "sixth color" that doesn't use Fetchlands as part of its gameplan is a good thing for Magic.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:40
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JerryLee posted:The Oblivion Ring trick was also very much a feature and not a bug, at least in the analogous edge cases, and they still dumpstered it--though that was by templating things differently and not by changing the way the underlying rules worked. For what it's worth, i'm pretty sure O-Ring getting dumpstered is entirely the work of Luis Scott-Vargas. Weird as it was, there wasn't really a reason to get rid of it until LSV managed to hard-lock MODO with it.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:15
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Keeping LSV from doing things, to the game, for value only requires the "an opponent controls" clause. The rewording so that you can't get rid of your Oblivion Ring replacement before its etb resolves to perma-exile something has nothing to do with what LSV did. No, you're correct, I forgot they changed two things from O-Ring to the current wording. Sigma-X posted:Everyone's excitement seems to be based entirely on the notion that WotC will go full retard on this, and I think that would be the worst thing they can do. I assume that people are excited by them going full retard because Kozilek's implementation is dumb as poo poo. I'm excited by the prospect of cards being printed which don't neatly fit into their "colored" 3C and 4C decks.
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Dec 9, 2015 01:02
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