Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

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Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Debating on picking this back up again. Do AP Slugs on Shotguns still suck?

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 22:47

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 14:51

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

chairface posted:

AP slugs allow a shotgun to be pressed into counter-sniping and anti-shield duty, but it still isn't particularly good at either. Explosive slugs on a sufficiently high accuracy shotgun would accomplish the same thing, and in either case a grenade launcher is a better choice all around. If you want to use a shotgun right now, the main use is 000 in something with decent capacity and fire rate used in conjunction with Overkill and/or Frenzerking. A Judge with HE rounds is still a good (if sub-optimal) concealable explosion-shooter.

Beyond all those though, on Overkill and below basically everything's viable, you do you and have fun however you have fun.

Figures. I've always hated how PD2 handles shotguns with the whole "all pellets deal full damage" thing and hoped that AP slugs would be good enough to be worth using so I wouldn't have to worry about it. I'm guessing literally every sniper rifle performs as well, if not better, than a slug shotgun.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 23:55

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Tempest_56 posted:

Sorta? Snipers have vastly greater accuracy and damage, but the shotgun's gonna fire faster and have a lot more ammo. That's a really weird comparison to focus on.

Last I heard, AP Shotguns still had the maximum range of normal shotgun pellets whereas Sniper Rifles... don't.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2017 00:20

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

payday 2 is coming to the nintendo switch

what is happening to my body

# ¿ Apr 12, 2017 23:28

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

also they're killing all DLC forever so get 'em while they're hot i guess

edit: misread the update. turns out all of the dlc is already dead forever, so too bad if you missed out

Kith fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jun 8, 2017

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 19:58

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Crabtree posted:

So the Ultimate Edition is almost nigh!

does this mean jules is getting fired

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 20:50

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Does anyone happen to have the "new" breakpoints on hand? All I've been able to find are the ones that were for before Jules hosed things up.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 04:33

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Tempest_56 posted:

I believe this guide is up to date still.

Okay, assuming this guide is accurate, I'mma ask a question.

Other than raw accuracy (which can be achieved by using a marksman kitted rifle), what is the actual point of Sniper Rifles? What advantages do they give that other weapons don't?

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 18:04

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Dr Cheeto posted:

Box Buddy

the what

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 18:30

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

So I've decided on a build that I enjoy (vomiting a ton of bullets from a light rifle that gets hella pickup ratios), but I cannot decide if I want to use the AMCAR or the Commando for it. Any wise advice from elder heisters that will help me choose between the two?

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 02:39

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Rougey posted:

Commando for sure... but have you heard about our bullet vomiting lord and savior, the KSP?

With the right build, the only time you'll need ammo from an ammo bag is when you want to take advantage of bulletstorm.

The only real drawback is the reload time, but with Bloodthirst and Lock 'n' Load you can cut that time down to next to nothing.

The KSP 58 is fine too, however it does have a longer reload to start with (again, not an issue so long as you stab a cop before relaoding)

I used to run the Buzzsaw and while I appreciate a good machine gun, I also appreciate my bullets going where I point them.

I also appreciate having a lot of concealment so I can go fast, and LMGs are not known for their concealment.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 14:30

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

watho posted:

There are many builds for using an LMG that still uses a suit. LMGs don't actually slow you down so running around in the speed of sound with a giant gently caress-off machine gun is a viable strat.

I should clarify - I also enjoy having the maximum Dodge chance to go with Anarchist's armor and Frenzy's damage reduction, and LMGs are very difficult to hide.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 15:01

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Tempest_56 posted:

I run my Anarchist+LBV+Dodge with a JP36, personally. With the quick-pull mag and Lock 'N Load/Bloodthirst, you've basically got infinite ammo and sub-1s reloads. (I went with suppressors over Frenzy, though.)

I gave building a JP36 a try, and this is what I came up with:

JP36 is equipped, Commando is selected.

Commando trades a wee bit of damage and accuracy for that 0.19 difference in reload speed. Dunno which I prefer more. I'll toy with the JP36 a bit, see how I like it.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 03:30

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Wastrel_ posted:

With BE, Accuracy is unimportant. Spray and pray.

My light rifle build is LBV Crook with Commando/JP36/Clarion/CAR-4 and Micro Uzi/MAC-10. Crits and BE ensure that everything dies fast on DW and below (not tried it on OD). Armour, dodge and first aid kits. Will probably work fine with Anarchist as well, but I prefer to use anarchist with fast-firing weapons that can kill bunches of cops at a time (eg Izhma). The one weakness this build has is shields, but I can usually flank them alright or use throwables to deal with them.

I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't use BE, partially because I prefer to focus on milling Bullseye procs and partially because I don't have the points left over to get it. A combination of Berserker/Frenzy, Crits, and Headshots carry me well enough on higher difficulties.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 13:36

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

My tryhard friends who play OD regularly can't decide if my build is garbage or not. My armor is a Suit, Perk Deck is Anarchist, and I bring along a Commando and an HE Judge.

I'm seeking second opinions on if I'm a shitter or not. I play Payday 2 somewhat casually, so I can't really tell myself.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 17:57

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

I have decided to get back into Payday 2 because new content means new stoves to touch. I'm depressed that Jules continues to not understand why people don't use certain weapon types, though.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 04:37

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

FAUXTON posted:

Me, wondering why people use guns that aren't shotguns:

Shotguns make the game feel non-challenging to me, which is why I stopped using them. I mean, yeah, they're cop slaughter machines, but I honestly got tired of killing four to six guys per shot because it feels like a crutch. After switching to the Commando, I found that I kinda like having to aim. I just wish that AP Slugs were worth a poo poo so I could have shotguns and aiming, but unfortunately Jules doesn't understand that AP Slugs will never ever be worth it unless they give a damage bonus comparable to the ones that DMR kits give Assault Rifles.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 07:37

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

UnknownMercenary posted:

I don't know why you would want something buffed to the level of DMRs since Jules just demonstrated that he'd rather completely destroy those than make the other assault rifles worth using.

I haven't really kept up with anything that's been happening because I haven't been playing so I'm not sure what you mean about DMRs. The only thing I've heard about/read about was the Specialized Killing nerf (which hosed up my build a little bit but i just switched to extra magazine size courtesy of the Enforcer tree, so not a big deal).

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 18:14

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

maswastaken posted:

No matter what, guns using a DMR kit will only ever pick up exactly 1 ammo. This wouldn't be so bad if you didn't absolutely need Berserker to one-shot a heavy on Mayhem, there were any truth to the idea that one ammo box dropped is one ammo box picked up and specials didn't exist.

How does Jules still have a job?

quote:

That skill hasn't been removed from the game just yet.

I know, I have a habit of adjusting in anticipation of things. If I catch wind of something getting nerfed/removed, instead of abusing it as much as I can while it's still available I immediately move away from it to reduce reliance on it.

Not like it mattered - having Specialized Killing only helped me hit the old breakpoints, so all I've really "lost" is that particular build no longer being able to fit into Stealth runs.

Edit: Just tried the Brothers Grimm. Trip report: :stonklol:

Kith fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 24, 2018

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 23:00

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

maswastaken posted:

Welcome to the fold.

All of my complaints about Automatic Shotguns making the game too easy are doubled (or even tripled) with the Brothers. Y'just hold down the trigger in the general direction of "over there" and everything dies in a flash. It's absurd.

While I have decided to dust off the Nailgun Murdertube because I'm rusty after about a year of no cop clicking, I doubt I'm going to use the Brothers very much unless I'm struggling with a mission at a high difficulty.

Discendo Vox posted:

Jules is not in charge of PD3.

Oh good, it has a chance then.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 17:55

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

What is the Nailgun Murdertube?

Nailgun because it sounds like one when you shoot it, Murdertube because it kills everything in the general direction it's pointed at and because it looks like a pool noodle due to the silencer and the shroud.

Speaking of shotguns, I'm really surprised that everything got a pass except shotguns. I wonder when/if Jules will ever make AP Slugs worth a gently caress.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2018 19:54

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

why does graze turn your sniper rifle into a pseudo shotgun

what the gently caress is jules doing

# ¿ Feb 14, 2018 00:53

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

why not just buff base pistol damage and make trigger happy into something that isn't a point tax

# ¿ Feb 14, 2018 21:13

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Discendo Vox posted:

6. Minigun bulldozers have their health doubled. This is on top of all bulldozers having their health doubled. Minigun dozers now have 48,000 health. This is more than anything but a SWAT turret, including all bosses.

So are rocket launchers basically required now, or

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 23:32

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Vox, does your team have any plans for weapon balancing?

# ¿ Jul 28, 2018 19:10

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

I managed to convince Vox that my brains are actually very cool and good, so now I'm on the Crackdown team doing all of the design/balance/math behind the upcoming weapons overhaul. If you're reading this, then that means I want to talk to YOU about guns you like and guns you hate and guns you want to be great. If you don't wanna post here, PM me if you've got Plat or track me down on the Co-Op Goons Discord.

Relevant to that particular declaration and also the recent discussion of LMGs, I recently belted out a proposal for what to do with them and I'm hungry for feedback.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2019 19:26

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

You must have a passion for self inflicted harm, yeesh.

I've actually been in a huge slump lately for life-related reasons and this is a nice warm-up to get me back into the swing of things. I'm very grateful to Vox and his team for letting me pitch in.

EorayMel posted:

For LMGs I'd be okay with the old flamethrower ammo pickup-tier and/or just making the base accuracy 10 or 15 outside the bipod so they're much better specialized for defensive scenarios/not moving around much and indirectly powers up ammo bags. More for human sentry gun purposes that can also suck poo poo against snipers without proper bipod surfaces or accurate secondary. I tried out the Buzzsaw and I got over 60 accuracy without any oppressor skills which seems a tad much given the overall power of LMGs.

The problem with that approach is that makes LMGs TOO niche. Like I get what direction you're aiming for but Payday 2 has too much running around chasing objectives for a player to be that static and there isn't nearly enough vertical/horizontal traverse to make something like that work because of how many defensible positions have flanking routes.

quote:

I think a bigger problem is poo poo like clearly inferior versions of guns(tommygun vs p90) and pistols in general(Except the 5/7 and maybe non-peacemaker revolvers.) need a lot of help, especially the half dozen gruber kurz clones™ that are practically identical. Much faster swaps/holsters and maybe faster reloads off the bat as well for finishing off a group of enemies when your primary is too slow to reload in the later half of a firefight might be a good step in the right direction.

But that's a whole separate issue/weapon class.

I feel like you're missing some context here. LMGs are not the only weapons that I will be touching - I've spent the past two weeks or so grinding Payday 2 so I could build fully kitted out versions of every gun in the game to use as a baseline reference for rebalancing them. LMGs are getting special attention because they require a design solution, not just a balance solution.

Kith fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jan 18, 2019

# ¿ Jan 18, 2019 20:21

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

This reminds how I hate that the 5/7 is inexplicably the only gun that has the ability to pierce shields. I would love to see Revolvers have that power and semi-auto pistols not, rather than a rando semi-auto having it and revolvers continue to be awful in every regard.

Yeah Revolvers are gonna be getting some love in that regard to make up for their lacking magazine sizes.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2019 20:24

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

EorayMel posted:

And in your opinion, what is the #1 gun that you think needs the most help/rebalancing the most? For me it's the peacemaker.

The Peacemaker is a good choice for #1 bad gun thanks to that nearly eight second full reload time. I had to check it three times to make sure I had it right because it made no loving sense. For me personally though, it'd have to be the Assault Kit Gewehr 3. It's got reasonable Medium AR stats except for the fact that it still has Heavy AR pickup, leaving it with 1 | 3.5 per box as opposed to every other Medium AR's 4.5 | 8.25. The Peacemaker's awful Full Reload can be worked around by just constantly doing partials, but the only way you're going to get any use out of the G3 Asskit is by bringing Ammo Bags.

Shooting Blanks posted:

Just make sure to include something that plays well with dodge, please. Good ammo pickups, decent reload speed, but maybe low damage at longer ranges? Not sure if that's possible in Payday 2.

I have plans for dodge, but they're not going public until later. Most weapons will be getting a Concealment boost and/or adjustment as part of the overhaul (especially Light ARs), so that should tide you over until then.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2019 04:40

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Shooting Blanks posted:

If you've played a lot of dodge, then awesome. If you haven't and you're running blind - hit me up on Discord (I'm on there) or on Steam and I'm happy to talk through some stuff. It's what I've done for the vast majority of my time in this game.

Before Grinder and Anarchist hit the scene, I was a Dodge Boy because I liked going fast. Once sustain decks entered the meta I switched tactics, but I remember the old days.

ArkInBlack posted:

Don't remove the Injector is basically my only thought on Perk Decks.

One of the few things that Vox and I agree on is making the Perk Deck Throwables available outside of the Perk Decks. How that's going to work for things like the Hip Flask or the Injector is currently unclear, but that's mostly because I've been preoccupied with getting the Weapon adjustments outlined first.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2019 13:37

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

maswastaken posted:

Saws are supremely godawful and need something spectacular to be worth consideration as a weapon.

how do you feel about 50% damage reduction while sprinting with a saw

# ¿ Jan 19, 2019 16:50

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

EorayMel posted:

Make the saw expend no ammo when it's cutting enemies and you'll have yourself a quality gimmick weapon.

stop reading my design notes

# ¿ Jan 19, 2019 17:08

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

UnknownMercenary posted:

I don't feel at all like making the majority of weapon mods into cosmetic only upgrades is the right way to go; you would just be continuing down Jules' path of complete weapon homogenization.

Even if we slapped 100 Acc/100 Stab on every Assault Rifle, there's enough variance in Rate of Fire, Magazine Size, Reserve Ammo, Reload Speed, and hidden kick/spread values that each weapon in the category would still feel comparatively unique. Of course, we're not doing that, but the point still stands.

That said, the difference between what we're aiming for and what Jules did is that Jules' direction ensured that only a handful of weapon types truly stood out because he had a weird idea of what Payday 2 should play like (which iirc was insanely obvious if you ever watched him play on a stream). I plan on making every weapon type useful (and, ideally, tune each individual weapon to handle uniquely somewhere in there), even if they're not necessarily to my tastes.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2019 19:11

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

ClonedPickle posted:

If you do this, I'd recommend re-branding the 5-7 into a low-damage armor piercing gun. It's a gimmick gun with a useful gimmick, and I'd like to see it remain a unique sidearm. Also, in other pistolchat, please dear god buff the fire rate of every pistol, or at least every akimbo pistol. There's currently only a few usable pistols and I'm saying that entirely because their throttled fire rate is anti-fun and if it's not fun I'm not gonna use it! Also, throw the fire rate buff skill into the sun.

Sure, I can make the 5-7 into a low-damage AP for something unique. As for Fire Rate boosts though, Payday 2 can get really finicky about them. The best I can offer you is baking in the Fire Rate boost from Fugitive, because we know it's an effect the engine won't try to turn itself inside out over.

quote:

Don't. Movement penalties are inherently unfun. I'd understand if the miniguns got one (and would continue to not use them), but don't do it to LMGs.

agreed

quote:

Good. I don't know how this was thrown onto the pile of low-damage, high-ammo SMGs at a time when the only high-damage ones were the Krinkov and the CR-805b. Oh, hey, while you're at it, give the Valkyria the same treatment: turn it into a high-damage/low-ammo gun. Its low mag size sucks for the low-damage/high-ammo role.

Because Jules is a hellfucker. The Patchett is going to be rebranded into a high-damage, low fire-rate SMG.

quote:

This just sounds like it's going to end poorly. Sorry for the vote of no confidence, but tying top-end skills to perk decks sounds like a deathblow to build diversity. I'd rather see lovely skills and decks buffed to the point of being viable alternatives to the bog standard, but it's not my mod.

One of the main reasons why Payday 2's balance is such a loving mess is because current setup of Skill Trees/Perk Decks allows the player to access too many powerful abilities. My build is a great example: I have Overkill Aced, Iron Man basic, Sneaky Bastard basic (with full dodge chance because my concealment is low enough), Low Blow (also full crit chance), Berserker, Frenzy, Anarchist. I deal ~175% of my normal damage on normal shots because of Frenzerker, plus 80% after I kill something (which is always because the game is massively overcrowded), and I've got a 15% chance to deal whatever the order of the day is for the target enemy's headshot multiplier. Sometimes it's 2x so my ~255% becomes 510% of normal damage, sometimes it's 18x and I hit something with 4590% damage. And that's not counting if I get a headshot crit, which either doubles the multiplier or just multiplies the bonus again - I don't remember which and I don't think it matters because either way I'm either getting really close to 10,000% or bypassing it and either is a good indication that something is wrong. I also have over 200 armor in a suit, 25% damage reduction, a 15% dodge chance, and I rarely (if ever) drop below 80% of my Armor because Anarchist generates Armor like trees make air.

And I have enough points left over to pick up Drill Efficiency skills as an afterthought.

The worst part is I don't even have to go the Meme Machine Party Cannon build. I could very easily dip into something more flexible, like picking up Joker or Inspire, while continuing to maintain massive amounts of personal offensive and defensive strength. I stick with the Meme Machine Party Cannon because taking advantage of the rest of the system just doesn't seem fair.

I don't know if shifting all of the build power into Perk Decks specifically is the correct answer, but for the time being it's definitely the better option for build sanitation. I haven't taken the time to design any alternatives because I've been busy with weapons so maybe I'll come up with something drastically better in the meantime.

Edit: Like five minutes after posting this we had a big discussion about it. It's safe to assume that we're either holding off on switching the prominence of Skill Trees/Perk Decks or doing something else entirely.

quote:

I've spent a lot of time in the inventory theorycrafting gun loadouts for low concealment builds, so here's what I've found to be the best in my opinion:

Izhma / HE Judge ex-prez build - suit, shotgun skills. Izhma is crazy ammo efficient (I'm not saying nerf it, fyi) to make up for the Judge. Judge is utility for shields, dozer faces, Swan Song, or to break your armor in a safe corner to make ex-prez do its thing.

Funny you should mention these 'cause Izhma/HE Judge is the exact setup I use in my build.

quote:

Pistols - 5-7 is the only secondary pistol worth using in the game at the moment. Usable fire rate, favorable gimmick, high damage. Akimbo Bernettis, Akimbo Crosskill Guards, or Akimbo Stryks for the primary. I have a lot more pistol opinions but I've said enough for now.

Come talk to me on Discord and tell me your pistol opinions. I would love to hear them.

Kith fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jan 20, 2019

# ¿ Jan 20, 2019 01:37

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

I've been working on the Crackdown player-side overhaul for a little over a year and I'm ready to call the core of it done.

https://tinyurl.com/TotalCrackdown

I still need to finish the weapon updates and the melee overhaul, but if you want to know what the Total Crackdown changes to Deployables, Skill Trees, and Perk Decks will look like, it's all there.

Feedback would be deeply appreciated and questions are welcome.

Edit: The Greatest Hits/Shortened Version, as requested:

Skill Trees are now all about Offense or Utility, whereas Perk Decks are the sole driver of Defenses.
Jokers now require a Deployable instead of a Skill Point investment. Jokers have also gotten a whole bunch of nice things to compensate.
Sentries are now ignored by enemies and no longer require any kind of ammunition management. They also have a bunch of Firing Modes (Basic, AP, HE, Taser, Anti-Sniper Overwatch) and a Manual Aim mode (which can be combined with any of the ammo modifiers).
Trip Mines have multiple modes (explosive, fire, stun) and multiple trigger types (standard, special only, manual detonation).
Skill Trees have been overhauled:
Boss: Focused on adding functionalities to Hostages. Inspire�s new home.
Marksman: Focused on Pistols, DMRs, and Sniper Rifles and stacking bonuses for not missing.
Medic: Focused on Healing Deployables.
Chief: Focused on Jokers.
Enforcer: Focused on Shotguns. Body Expertise's new home.
Heavy: Focused on Large Weapons (like LMGs and Miniguns) and Ammo Bags. Overkill's new home.
Runner: Focused on going fast and doing things while going fast.
Gunner: Focused on Critical Hits for Rapid Fire weapons like Assault Rifles and SMGs.
Engineer: Focused on Sentry Guns.
Thief: Focused on stealing things and not getting caught.
Assassin: Focused on Silent Weapons and Poison.
Sapper: Focused on Drills and Breaching charges.
Dealer: Focused on Melee Weapons and Throwing Weapons.
Fixer: Focused on the OVE9000 Saw. Do you like hurting other people?
Demolitions: Focused on Explosives, Fire, and Trip Mines.
Perk Decks have been overhauled:
Crew Chief: �Jack Of All Trades� Team Deck that gives a variety of moderate defensive bonuses. Very referential.
Muscle: Massive Health and Health Regeneration. Flex eternal!
Armorer: Heavy Armor all day, every day.
Rogue: Provides Dodge Chance and comes with Special Dodges that are guaranteed to avoid certain attacks. Features a rebranded Sneaky Bastard.
Crook: Ballistic Vests and Dodge Chance. Features a rebranded Swan Song.
Hitman: Armor Recovery and nothing else. Features a rebranded Messiah.
Burglar: Stealth and the legacy of the Arkansas Toothpick. No, it�s not a typo.
Infiltrator: Provides a solid mixture of general and special defenses for melee users. Features rebranded versions of Counterstrike, Shockproof, and Resilience (Aced).
Sociopath: Focused on most closely replicating Hotline Miami while still being playable in the context of Payday 2.
Gambler: A Team Deck that provides healing from Ammo Pickups. Probably the most subject to rebalancing once testing begins.
Grinder: Sustain type changed to Life Steal, providing the same overall effect of healing while in combat but requiring a constant damage output to maintain it instead of being able to tag an enemy and hide.
Yakuza: Trades Health for Damage Resistance both in the short-term and long-term. Technically Frenzy�s successor.
Ex-President: Still stores health on kill, but now also features a slow consumption of that stored health so players don�t need to break their Armor to access their healing.
Maniac: A Team Deck that generates ablative Damage Resistance. Go crazy!
Anarchist: Trades Health for Armor and generates Armor on dealing damage.
Biker: A Team Deck that provides Armor and Restoration for the team.
Kingpin: An Item Deck that can redirect enemy attention and withstand heavy onslaughts.
Sicario: An Item Deck that can use a Smoke Bomb for defense and offense.
Stoic: An Item Deck that can stagger and negate damage taken.
Tag Team: An Item Deck that can directly heal allies. Features a rebranded Inspire and the worst memes of our generation.
Hacker: An Item Deck that stuns enemies in Loud and jams electronics in Stealth.
Re-imagined Shotgun Ammo balance (including turning Dragon's Breath into an actual Flamethrower round)
Re-imagined LMG/Minigun roles
DMR pickup adjustments
Complete/updated Weapon Rebalance and Melee Weapon Overhaul documents and spreadsheets Coming Soon�

Kith fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Dec 20, 2019

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 01:04

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

watho posted:

My only comment is that of all the bands to name anarchist cards after you chose the offspring, I love them but

Offspring holds a special place in my heart because I grew up on them - they were the only punk band that got imported to Sicily when I lived there. What band do you think would be more appropriate?

maswastaken posted:

I notice Tag Team is no longer the only source of the Inspire effect. I don't really have any remark to attach to that observation.

Inspire was always part of the Hostages Tree, so you may have just misread the Roadmap.

maswastaken posted:

For Sociopath, I'm trying to get an idea of how long 2 seconds is and how long I need to kill 3 dudes but with the radical changes, I'm really not sure. I'd say I'm concerned about the possibility of being outright invincible but what I've been doing with current Sociopath on Mayhem tells me that deep down, that's a huge lie and I'm more worried that I won't be.

The problem with Sociopath is that it's very much a gimmick deck and therefore I need to strike a careful balance between "a huge pain in the rear end" and "effective enough to be worth wanting" - and we won't know how close I got until we get it implemented and start testing. The best I can offer you is that I'll be keeping a very close eye on it and dictating adjustments as needed.

Discendo Vox posted:

It may be helpful to lay out some specific chunks here in the thread, Kith.

I'll share the Greatest Hits, then:

Skill Trees are now all about Offense or Utility, whereas Perk Decks are the sole driver of Defenses.
Jokers now require a Deployable instead of a Skill Point investment. Jokers have also gotten a whole bunch of nice things to compensate.
Sentries are now ignored by enemies and no longer require any kind of ammunition management. They also have a bunch of Firing Modes (Basic, AP, HE, Taser, Anti-Sniper Overwatch) and a Manual Aim mode (which can be combined with any of the ammo modifiers).
Trip Mines have multiple modes (explosive, fire, stun) and multiple trigger types (standard, special only, manual detonation).
Skill Trees have been overhauled:
Boss: Focused on adding functionalities to Hostages. Inspire�s new home.
Marksman: Focused on Pistols, DMRs, and Sniper Rifles and stacking bonuses for not missing.
Medic: Focused on Healing Deployables.
Chief: Focused on Jokers.
Enforcer: Focused on Shotguns. Body Expertise's new home.
Heavy: Focused on Large Weapons (like LMGs and Miniguns) and Ammo Bags. Overkill's new home.
Runner: Focused on going fast and doing things while going fast.
Gunner: Focused on Critical Hits for Rapid Fire weapons like Assault Rifles and SMGs.
Engineer: Focused on Sentry Guns.
Thief: Focused on stealing things and not getting caught.
Assassin: Focused on Silent Weapons and Poison.
Sapper: Focused on Drills and Breaching charges.
Dealer: Focused on Melee Weapons and Throwing Weapons.
Fixer: Focused on the OVE9000 Saw. Do you like hurting other people?
Demolitions: Focused on Explosives, Fire, and Trip Mines.
Perk Decks have been overhauled:
Crew Chief: �Jack Of All Trades� Team Deck that gives a variety of moderate defensive bonuses. Very referential.
Muscle: Massive Health and Health Regeneration. Flex eternal!
Armorer: Heavy Armor all day, every day.
Rogue: Provides Dodge Chance and comes with Special Dodges that are guaranteed to avoid certain attacks. Features a rebranded Sneaky Bastard.
Crook: Ballistic Vests and Dodge Chance. Features a rebranded Swan Song.
Hitman: Armor Recovery and nothing else. Features a rebranded Messiah.
Burglar: Stealth and the legacy of the Arkansas Toothpick. No, it�s not a typo.
Infiltrator: Provides a solid mixture of general and special defenses for melee users. Features rebranded versions of Counterstrike, Shockproof, and Resilience (Aced).
Sociopath: Focused on most closely replicating Hotline Miami while still being playable in the context of Payday 2.
Gambler: A Team Deck that provides healing from Ammo Pickups. Probably the most subject to rebalancing once testing begins.
Grinder: Sustain type changed to Life Steal, providing the same overall effect of healing while in combat but requiring a constant damage output to maintain it instead of being able to tag an enemy and hide.
Yakuza: Trades Health for Damage Resistance both in the short-term and long-term. Technically Frenzy�s successor.
Ex-President: Still stores health on kill, but now also features a slow consumption of that stored health so players don�t need to break their Armor to access their healing.
Maniac: A Team Deck that generates ablative Damage Resistance. Go crazy!
Anarchist: Trades Health for Armor and generates Armor on dealing damage.
Biker: A Team Deck that provides Armor and Restoration for the team.
Kingpin: An Item Deck that can redirect enemy attention and withstand heavy onslaughts.
Sicario: An Item Deck that can use a Smoke Bomb for defense and offense.
Stoic: An Item Deck that can stagger and negate damage taken.
Tag Team: An Item Deck that can directly heal allies. Features a rebranded Inspire and the worst memes of our generation.
Hacker: An Item Deck that stuns enemies in Loud and jams electronics in Stealth.
Re-imagined Shotgun Ammo balance (including turning Dragon's Breath into an actual Flamethrower round)
Re-imagined LMG/Minigun roles
DMR pickup adjustments
Complete/updated Weapon Rebalance and Melee Weapon Overhaul documents and spreadsheets Coming Soon�

Kith fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 20, 2019

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 17:44

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

EorayMel posted:

I want to see a gif of the friendship collared reservoir dogs cashier tackle a cloaker or maybe a minigun bulldozer

I'll see what I can do.

John Murdoch posted:

I did a quick read-through and it all looks .

Only thing that jumped out at me was, if enemies now ignore sentries then what's the purpose of the protective shield perk?

It's still possible for stray shots to hit Sentries (especially if the user places the Sentry near themselves) so it protects against that. You're right that it's unlikely to be something that anyone will ever need, which is why it's a T1 Aced effect - most of the T1 Ace skill effects are "nice to have, but hardly necessary" and are primarily there to allow players to skip T2 skills.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 18:56

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Drewjitsu posted:

You probably want to use an Anarchist band (at least that's what Wikipedia tells me ) like the Dead Kennedys or Minor Threat, or use the Sex Pistols, due to their song, "Anarchy in the UK".

Kinda blows my mind that Offspring isn't an Anarchist band. I've listened to Smash hundreds of times and I would've said that they were based on the content of that album.

Either way, today I learned that Dead Kennedys have a song called "Nazi Punks gently caress Off" and that's pretty much all I needed to know.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 20:22

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Drewjitsu posted:

History lesson: the punk rock spaces were incredible welcoming to all countercultures, which made them ripe for infiltration from literal neo-nazis (https://www.gq.com/story/punks-and-nazis-oral-history). For a while Punk had a nazi problem, until they kicked them all out, more or less. It's a great real world example of the Paradox of Tolerance .

Yeah I'm definitely sticking with Nazi Punks gently caress Off as the first card name. I'll figure out the other eight later, I'm taking a bit of a vacation on working on stuff until the holidays are over.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 20:43

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 14:51

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

spit on my clit posted:

just name the rest after the classic Clash songs.

edit: don't you dare use any green day songs, that's not punk, it's just bitch

If I'm doing song references for something, I tend towards sticking to a single artist.

Which is to say that all of the cards are going to be named after Dead Kennedy songs or albums.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 21:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

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