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Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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TEAM-MATE
You better vote for our bland song if you want to get any money from Schäuble. Better watch yourself, Greece!

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Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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lollontee posted:

Who shat on the floor?

Spain.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Sounds too good to be true. And even if those two wanted the right kind of changes, how do you convince the rest to go along with it?

At least the UK will be out soon, they would have blocked anything good.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Why exactly? I don't speak French.

He doesn't look bad for a politician, especially for a head of state/government. But Trudeau has him beat handsomely. Is it because of his wife and the 20 years she has on him?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Mikl posted:

Current polls: Democratic Party and Five Star Movement tied at 29,2%; Lega Nord at 13,1%; Forza Italia at 12,6%; Fratelli D'Italia (fascists, btw) at 4,6%; the rest is "others". Note that with the proposed electoral law :siren: there would be only four major parties in parliament, none holding an absolute majority :siren: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo:


Please. Someone. Austria, Switzerland, Germany. Someone. Conquer us. Help us get rid of these buffoons :cripes:

There hasn't been a party with an absolute majority of votes in Germany since the 1950's. Coalition governments are the norm here. I think it's difficult for countries to move from one electoral system where a majority is the rule to one where it's the exception. I hope it works out for you guys.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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As much as I think that Brexit is a mistake, I don't want the Brits to abandon it now. It will only inflame anti-EU views among the British populace, and will lead to governments even more hostile to the European project than they were before. The EU is such a neo-liberal institution in part because the UK governments were adamantly opposed to anything that they could denounce as socialist. I think the chance of good reforms coming out of Brussels will increase with the UK gone.

Greece will still be hosed either way :(

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Stay safe , Portugal goons. This really sucks. Is there hope of rain any time soon to put out the fires?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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GaussianCopula posted:

So why is Greece doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/29/europe/refugees-prostitution-teenagers-athens-greece/index.html

Maybe instead of giving gifts to pensioners the Greek state could actually provide for these people they are obliged to help under international treaties.

So why are we in Germany doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them?

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article163570954/Junge-Fluechtlinge-sehen-sich-zur-Prostitution-gezwungen.html

quote:

Junge Flüchtlinge sehen sich zur Prostitution gezwungen

In Berlin prostituieren sich laut Hilfsorganisationen immer mehr junge Flüchtlinge.

You get a ton of these articles just on the first google page if you search for "Flüchtlinge" "Prostitution" and "Deutschland".

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Squalid posted:

Sooo more or less a United States of Europe? With centralized control over both economic and military foreign relations, what sovereignty would be left to the constituent states?

It could be like in the USA. Keep the European Parliament, and make a Senate in which each country has one vote.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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MeLKoR posted:

It's not like we have a choice in eventually getting dragged into conflicts around us. The discussion on how/when to intervene is another matter and quite a pointless one if we are simply unable to do it effectively. If the only thing we can do is lob a couple of bombs and then run out of ammo failure is a forgone conclusion whatever we chose to do.

But that's misunderstanding what happened. Yes, Europeans ran out of bombs after a weeks long bombing campaign. But do you think Gaddafi would have been able to stand up to just France alone in a conventional invasion with boots on the ground? Of course not. And the Americans demonstrate very nicely the limits in just lobbing bombs at targets in the ME. Don't sell our militaries short.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:

The last time Greece was actually good was when they were ancient

The Byzantine Empire was great even in the medieval period.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Collusion to fix prices doesn't mean that cars suddenly suck, just that the companies are trying to gently caress you over financially.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Junior G-man posted:

Austrian government just fell. Good, gently caress those fascists.

Is there any reason to believe that the next government won't be ÖVP-FPÖ again? FPÖ losses weren't that big, and the ÖVP gained quite a bit (presumably ex-FPÖ voters), so they will probably still have a majority after the next elections?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Parliament should just reject everybody the member states nominate, with a pointed reminder each time that they will only ever vote for either Weber, Timmermans, or Vestager.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Is there any reason to believe von der Leyen will get approval of the EP? Is that already a foregone conclusion?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Tesseraction posted:

Was there an actually good alternative to her or is she the least crap?

She's probably the least realistic alternative, unless parliament found a spine and just voted down everyone until the EU heads nominate Weber or Timmermans or Vestager.

She's still crap though.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Apparently, Ursula received just enough votes to get the job.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Curious that austerity (which is horrible, of course) is the EU's fault, instead of the fault of all those member state governments which overwhelmingly agreed to force it on Greece and co.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Junior G-man posted:

The German austerity morons are back again. Right after the Corona crisis, it's time to start raising interest rates; what's recovery precious?


It's loving Trichet all over again - let's hope they're roundly ignored this time.

Article here but paywalled, if anyone has access to FAZ would be cool to read: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/ezb-nach-corona-krise-fuer-eine-neue-geldpolitik-16679542.html

Yes, these all should be fired into the sun, but I think (hope?) that they won't have any pull with the ECB. Do you think Lagarde will raise interest rates now? When everybody else is lowering theirs?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Then we can have a tiny hundred years war with the Brits, it all comes together wonderfully!

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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I didn't think I would ever see the EU act as forcefully as it does now. It's never been this united on an issue, either.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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So did von der Leyen really say the EU wants Ukraine as a member? How serious should we take that? They won't be admitted as long as there's still war raging in the country, and one condition of membership is resolving all outstanding territorial disputes, which I can't believe is possible for Ukraine even in the (for Russia) worst case. They have zero ability to push the Russians out of the separatist regions in the East, or ousting them from Crimea. And Ukraine will hardly agree to give up their claims to these areas.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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I wonder about the fine print on this. Also, every member state has a veto, iirc. But Zelenskyy is really good at guilting EU leaders to do much more for Ukraine than I ever thought they would be willing to, good on him.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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The EU banning RT and co. is bad from a free speech perspective. But this step shouldn't be a surprise to you, when certain EU member states like Poland were very close from voiding all TV licenses of TV stations that were not majority owned by EU corporations. They backed down (mostly because the biggest victim of that law would have been an US station), but still.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Is that normal PiS insanity, or are they afraid they will lose the next election so they fling baseless accusations against Tusk?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Guavanaut posted:

They could guarantee winning the next election if they gave away some of the places least likely to vote for them to someone else.



Wow, you can easily see the former German border in this map.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Tiny Kox, wtf.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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His Divine Shadow posted:

I did get wary of his preaching that the solution is to burn natural gas since that's not really a solution....

But his point on renewables failing lines up with what others are saying so on that point I am not at all convinced that all europe has got to worry about is this winter. The other twitter link is far more detailed on that.

There's likely enough LNG to fill the hole that the absence of Russian gas and oil left, it's just a matter of building the terminals and paying the premium above the cheap stuff from Russia.

It will be the poorer parts of the world that previously relied on LNG that will suffer :(

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Tesseraction posted:

I mean this is why we shouldn't be relying on fossil fuels from extremist dictatorships but here is Europe on the teat of Russia and the world on the teat of OPEC, king poo poo being Saudi-occupied Arabia.

EU officials are busy to not criticize Azerbaijan's "border incursions" into Armenia, because the Azeris have a ton of natural gas to sell. So I can see this is still going really well. :doh:

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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He was a longtime Hamburg politician, it's probably some corruption with getting some old pals sweet kickbacks or something like that. That said, the government limited the stake the Chinese can buy to 24.9% of the asset in question, meaning they cannot influence managerial decisions. So it's perhaps not a big deal? I'm not very knowledgeable in this matters, if somebody who's more of an expert could explain the significance of the sale to me, I would appreciate it.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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There is absolutely enough LNG available on the world market to solve Europe's heating issues, the problem is the lack of terminal capacity to "unload" it. This year's gas storages were filled with a lot of Russian gas still, which needs to be replaced next year. Whether there will be enough LNG terminals built to satisfy demand is the open question that will determine how difficult next year's winter will be. I'm relatively confident that enough capacity will be available in 2024 though. But Europe will still pay a premium on energy as compared to the time of cheap Russian gas, which will lower it's competitiveness somewhat, and overall will make Europe a bit poorer than if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine. But I don't think we're facing a decade of economic malaise that will leave Europe crippled in the 2030s.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Do we actually want the Brits back though? They blocked a lot of poo poo that would have improved the EU somewhat.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Anti-nuclear sentiment is sadly pretty widerspread in Germany, cutting across ideological lines.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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It's probably because Deutsche Mark also had 1 and 2 Mark coins.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Rappaport posted:

The brexit negotiations were a mess from what I understand, but that's not really an argument for the EU's stability. And it seems a bit rude to just go "nice economy there, would be a shame if something happened to it" :iit: (That second one isn't intended to be very serious, just to be clear)

The original discussion was more about the functioning of the EU, and I think I've argued in this thread before that it's an unfortunate stale-mate for several reasons. Is this better than Europe circa 1914? You betcha.

Of course it's rude to go "nice economy you have there...", but that's a reality every state in the EU must face. A lot of countries would have fared even worse than the UK if they were to leave. Continental economies are deeply integrated, and leaving the EU without at least staying in the EEA would crash most economies. And if a country has adopted the Euro, it would be even harder to leave.

It's telling that the Le Pens and Melonis are no longer speaking about a Frexit of Italexit. Seeing the UK's example, even majorities of nationalist far-righties understand that that's not a viable path.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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mortons stork posted:


It's lucky overall that Germany is unable to present an united front on the supposedly guiding issue for its Green-led government. Smart. Have to save up for the real political battles, and surely not over the thing that is driving us (heh) to extinction.

It's a surprise to learn that our government is Green-led. I thought Scholz was a social democrat...

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Small White Dragon posted:

I'm honestly sort of surprised that Georgia is given/considered for EU candidate status; I've never really considered it European.

Has the EU ever specified what it considers the borders of Europe?

Not exactly. But the dividing line between Europe and Asia is arbitrary in any case, and Georgia lies just on the other side of the most commonly accepted dividing line. Turkey is technically a valid candidate to join the EU due to their territory around Istanbul (although they won't get in any time soon, if ever). Iceland is also an edge case of whether it's in Europe or North America. Cyprus definitely is in Asia.

Generally, the EU has been willing to accept countries right on the edge of the generally accepted geographic borders of Europe as long as there's a cultural/historical connection. Georgia is a Christian Orthodox country, so that might be enough.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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MiddleOne posted:

Germany is an industrial world leader in a bunch of vehicle-components that are rendered worthless if EV:s dominate the planet.

Are you deliberately ignoring the fact that all most German car companies already announced that they will stop using ICEs before the deadline that the new EU law is going to set? There have been several posts about this thread, some even on this very page.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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Haramstufe Rot posted:

The dividing line is whether or not the country is Christian enough

Yes, that's pretty much it.

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Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

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The States also just got out of a war for independence, while the EU's founding members waged war against each other not even a decade before the founding of the European Coal and Steel Community.

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