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Drone posted:You should absolutely skip Code of Honor though. Yea there's a few that it's worth just dropping and you won't lose anything but even bad ones like Angel One miss the chance to see "Send the pretty man to seduce the important woman" which is a rarity even in stuff now. And it's fun bad rather than "Turn this poo poo off" bad. Tsaedje posted:Saru is pretty ok, I like the portrayal of Pike, season 2 Michael is considerably better. The rest of the crew exist. I like Saru, I like Tilly. Pike is decent. But the stories are stupid. They already did the "might destroy the universe!!!" bit in season 1 and I feel like this one is doing the same. Being able to just teleport to the beta quadrant and find a bunch of humans or Saru evolving into some Post-Kelpian and all that just feels like too much and the show never has a time to break.
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Mar 16, 2019 21:10
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Pinterest Mom posted:just give them 20 episodes instead of scolding them Like....what's the point watching measure of a man if you don't even know who Data is? If you're grounded in sci-fi I guess it works but it's not going to be the same. That goes for so much of that list. Tsaedje posted:The stakes are too high, too soon and too constantly. Star Trek is best when it's not "the fate of the universe!!!" They've approached more of what I'd like to see with a few episodes but then they ruin it by forcing it to tie in with the fate of the universe shite and really lazy attempts at fanservice in the same bad ways the JJ films did. Yea. Like okay in the most recent orville two parter I was prettysure nothing horrible would happen. But it still can. When you're saying the universe will be destroyed it's absolutely 100% clear that's not happening.
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Mar 16, 2019 21:58
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Geekboy posted:I think it’s time to get some new writers. This material is getting really stale. It's the truth. "More women prison guards" doesn't make the system not poo poo, and DiS isn't very star trek at all. I'm glad there are more POC and women in it but it'd be better if that was the case with a show that was good.
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Mar 17, 2019 10:39
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ashpanash posted:The whole trial in TNG episode one (and its final episode) was about humanity continuing to grow, and overcome the mistakes they've made in the past and continued to make. I'm not arguing that season 1 Discovery wasn't hacky, but Star Trek is not the place I'd go to for subtlety in its portrayal of allegories about current events. Arguing that we'd revert to basically capitalist slavery after the world is united and we're in space seems a bit crazy though.
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Mar 17, 2019 13:44
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ashpanash posted:Why? I look around at a world more advanced and prosperous than ever and yet full of rampant problems rapidly approaching an ecological catastrophe. Capitalism has been eliminated in Star Trek. And Tasha's planet specifically wasn't in the federation although it wasn't ever really explained how human colonies outside the federation exist.
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Mar 17, 2019 14:18
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Phylodox posted:It really hasn’t. The society depicted in Star Trek is basically just post-scarcity capitalism. Even in Encounter at Farpoint, Crusher is buying fabric at the bazaar. No one starves or freezes or goes without, but there’s obviously still capital and trade. Season 1 of TNG is all over the place with that, but at the end of Season 1 they say it explicitly to the unfrozen people and in DS9 it's clear there's no capitalism any longer for the Federation. Even in TNG season 1 in episodes like Symbiosis and anything involving the Ferengi they're pretty disgusted by the pursuit of profit. Whalley posted:Capitalism has been 'eliminated' in the Federation, not in all of Star Trek. Human colonies outside the Federation are presumably just a bunch of chuds who said "well gently caress you i'm taking my ball and going to a new planet with blackjack and hookers and you can't stop me" There's the Marquis and presumably Tasha's people but we don't really know enough about the human colonies that specifically are deliberately outside the Federation.
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Mar 17, 2019 14:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s reasonable to assume the Federation provides some kind of generous UBI to citizens stationed offworld so that they can still engage in trade and have things that aren’t just replicator pattern #348-A. You can’t have them just replicate the local currency because then you’d had starships regularly loving up the local economy. Yea, definitely. Bashir and O'Brien have infinite resources to go to Quarks and use the holosuites, they're just not greedy enough to take it up constantly. Capitalism is ended in the federation, the show tells us that loads even if it's not 100% perfect at showing it.
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Mar 17, 2019 14:58
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EimiYoshikawa posted:90% of Federation-descended space colonies are basically Space Libertarians building their versions of Space Rapture/Space Sea-Standing nonsense. Citation needed? They definitely make Tasha and the Marquis seem like exceptions rather than the rule. marktheando posted:I don't think the prison stuff in Discovery is too jarring. The Federation has the death penalty in TOS. Yea but TOS also has the "Star Fleet" invading Vulcan and all sorts of stuff.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:08
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Geekboy posted:Don’t worry. The season will be over soon and these threads will return to the same 4 people posting how much they dislike it every day. I dunno why you love Discovery so much. Like I say the representation is nice but it's such a boring vehicle for it. If I wanted Doctor Who I'd watch Doctor Who, I guess.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:15
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The colony may have been established before the Federation itself was founded, or it may have left the Federation. Why wouldn't they allow them to leave? Self-determination is a pretty important value to the Federation. "We'd like to leave so we can create a scarcity society" would have me there investigating it at least. Timby posted:He's an excellent ideas guy, generally. Pushing Daisies, Dead Like Me, Wonderfalls, Hannibal, they're all in the range of good to excellent. I really, really liked the idea of it being an Anthology show. And the first series definitely feels like that's what he wanted what with the whole Voq thing.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:40
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Timby posted:That's precisely what he originally pitched. I...know? That's what I'm saying. I liked the idea and you can see it really heavily in Voq.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:45
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Tighclops posted:who the gently caress is voq Clem Fandango?
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Mar 17, 2019 19:58
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Geekboy posted:Casting and every single other aspect of production makes a Trek anthology series basically impossible to finance unless you’re cool with cardboard sets. There's plenty of other anthologies that work fine, I don't think the casting part is true at all. Making new sets for a sci-fi anthology would be expensive as hell though. Nobody would care about the side characters in an anthology series because that's not really the idea. People are mad that Decker and etc aren't developed because it's supposed to be a proper series with them in it all the time, less of a bother if there's only 13 episodes or something.
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Mar 17, 2019 20:13
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Cythereal posted:The Klingons are a dead ringer for feudal Japan more than anything, ignore the Viking aesthetic. A civilization with a society built around 'honor' that's filled with intrigue, stabbing, and generally being nothing resembling honor even as everyone pays lip service to it. Yea, the first episode the "new" Klingons star in during TNG they come across very much like Samurai, particularly those characters. I'd absolutely agree that stopping discovery being a prequel would make it fit a lot better for me. And they'd have fewer stupid scenes like when Ash/Voq is telling them they've got a brand new Klingon ship design and it's just a bird of prey.
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Mar 18, 2019 12:37
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jeeves posted:The exact same people who have been making Discovery are making that show. It's written by Michael Chabon isn't it? So it's not really the same people
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Mar 18, 2019 20:09
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Brawnfire posted:A Reman scientist from the future makes a clone of Picard and Kirk perfectly blended to produce the ultimate Federation Captain. Picirk rises through the ranks of the Federation, being a backdoor for Reman influence. Meanwhile, Picard and B4 with arm phaser cannon take a cloaked Captain's Yacht to the future Reman time-ship which exists only inside an abandoned Borg transwarp tunnel. Discovering the truth about Picirk, they must ride the exploding time-ship through the collapsing transwarp tunnel in order to get to Earth just in time for Picard to fist-fight Picirk over the deep chasm in the heart of Starfleet HQ. In a bid to help Picard, Data uses a risky transporter maneuver, only to separate Picirk into Picard and Kirk, who both gang up on Picard. Looking deep inside himself, Picard activates a latent Borg implant, and becomes the powerful Good Locutus. The final showdown begins. Star Trek: The Anime - coming to cinemas in March 2020.
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Mar 18, 2019 20:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still wanna see Star Trek characters drawn as Pokemon trainers. You pay for stuff in Pokémon though!
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Mar 19, 2019 12:28
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Brawnfire posted:The gently caress? Sounds like the Mirror Universe. Is this like the main timeline except Terra Prime gained a foothold in the Starfleet government? It's the 70s so it's just TOS stuff, not that crazy to think it could exist in the universe of TOS!
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Mar 20, 2019 10:14
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Paradoxish posted:I doubt very much that it was intentional on the part of the writers, but I like how this incidentally fleshes the Cardassians out too. They're an evil fascist society, but they also have pragmatic diplomatic goals so they weren't going to commit an atrocity like that under the nose of the Federation. The Dominion didn't care so they just went for it. The cardassians didn't want another war with the Federation and as poo poo as the Marquis was that definitely would have been one.
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Mar 24, 2019 18:33
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Pixeltendo posted:-I thought worst episode was probably star child (the one where Troi gives birth to a space kid) something about it just didn't sit right with me. I've just re-watched The Child. It's a script recycled from The Original Series - they were going to bring the show back and that script was written for it, they used it because there was a writer's strike. It just kinda...goes nowhere. The Child turns up, emits a weird radiation and just leaves with no proper reason. What in theory is the main story just completely ends and nothing is changed because of it. Such a strange episode, even worse to me than Code of Honour or Justice because at least they've got a point and use that point.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:35
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'd say the show loved to get really weird about Troi's vagina but then again I think the candle gently caress ghost episode was Crusher? When it comes to it TNG is really loving poo poo about women. Of course there are worse shows for being sexist but TNG is definitely all in with it.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:30
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I did think the way Mama Burnham fell out of the suit was pretty cool. It was less like she exited it like an Iron Man suit and more like she kind of phased through/out of it. Thanks for the absolutely enormous spoiler I guess.
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Mar 26, 2019 20:09
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Burning_Monk posted:The funniest Trek Irish related story is how Colm Meaney (O'Brien) would take Alex Siddig (Bashir) out to Irish pubs and watch him almost get beaten up (for being English). Man I'm English and I've been in shitloads of irish pubs all over the ROI and Northern Ireland, what the gently caress?
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Apr 3, 2019 20:41
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Agnosticnixie posted:I actually do find the idea of not knowing about Stockholm syndrome perfectly plausible considering we have like actual situations where psychs are uncertain whether some psychological disorders exist because they're only encountered in some cultures (e.g. DID seems to be an entirely american phenomenon) *crosses arms*
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Apr 4, 2019 10:30
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Pick posted:It's a culture finding its footing after being curbstomped, but also only the oldest people still alive really remember how it was "before". They're clinging to a history and a culture that has lost huge pieces of itself, and the character of which has been compromised along with the millions of lives lost. Some want a return, some want reform, and their position is still vulnerable. Joining the Federation means accepting a new authority and some people aren't ready for that; refusing to join puts them at risk of falling under a different authority whether they like it or not. During this time of upheaval, their most respected leader decides to chill out on murder planet moon, leaving a vacuum for nurse ratchet and Barbie's boyfriend I'm a fan of the bajoran politics too and I think that when I learned the reason they'd left the Kai on that planet it blew my mind, it felt like the writers didn't actually care about the overarching story and what we ended up with was a fluke, a lucky fluke. Here's a character that's mega important to Bajor and to the religion that they're talking about, a huge thing. Then she just stays on a random planet in the gamma quadrant and everyone's totally okay with that, then you find out they did it because they wanted to kill a character and she was the only major-but-not-major character who they could do it to.
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Apr 4, 2019 20:03
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Nodosaur posted:Seriously, the Romulan neutral zone? More like the Romulan gently caress Off Zone. The Romulans don’t exactly live here but they enforce it so they can fly up and tell people to gently caress off before they can get somewhere important. The neutral zone was an area designated "not ours and not theirs" though, it's not something specifically the romulans are enforcing. It's just a slightly fatter border. The big thing that I think star trek is silly with geography wise is something I always think of when I play stellaris - who the gently caress is on the other side of the romulans and Klingons and why don't they expand that way instead?
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Apr 6, 2019 02:33
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I'm re-watching TNG and we've just done The Royale. In the trivia it says Tracy Torme effectively left the show altogether because of the rewrites of his script and being super pissed off at everyone. Does anyone (say from the 50 year mission stuff) know what the original story was like? I quite like the episode because it reminds me so much of loads of Galaxy Magazine from the 1950s that I've read but the idea of it being more surreal is proper interesting to me. happyhippy posted:Odo could only do Pakled facial features. I still can't believe that Pakled is Starscream.
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Apr 6, 2019 23:57
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Nodosaur posted:The episode was going to have the astronaut "alive" as one of the images in the fantasy, and the episode was going to end with an away team member who'd died being restored and remaining in the fantasy to keep him company. I think there's more to it than that, because that stuff is mentioned in the Memory Alpha article and doesn't sound like a particularly huge rewrite? skasion posted:Royale just kind of runs out of interesting stuff to do. I like the concept but I don't think it's the best structured story. The end also doesn't really make a lot of sense. Surely the foreign investors are there as part of the story already like everyone else is.
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Apr 7, 2019 00:35
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Nodosaur posted:I'm sure there is. But I can't find anything else than that. Yea well that's why I said maybe in 50 year mission, I can read memory alpha and referenced it in the post. Agnosticnixie posted:That said Riker's concluding report to Picard is also literally that none of this poo poo made the slightest bit of sense so I'm pretty sure they were self aware enough. True. I wonder if the astronaut ever did a groundhog day sort of thing, going absolutely mad, getting to know specific characters in it. The aliens must have given them decent backstories because I bet Mr Lubbock Texas didn't tell anyone what car he had in the novel. Maybe the original script had the crew talk to random extras who couldn't say anything back.
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Apr 7, 2019 00:55
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Epicurius posted:I didn't find it in 50 year mission, but Torme describes his original script here: Thank you! It always annoys me when they put things like "I didn't even understand the new version". The new version makes perfect sense. It might be a bit poo poo, but it's not confusing.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:30
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galenanorth posted:The Void (VOY S07E15) is the best episode of Season 7. It re-uses the plot of a TAS episode, wherein Kirk works with a Klingon captain to pool their ships' resources to escape from a void, but with a longer run-time length, more species, and a bigger budget. Starting a new Federation from nothing in a state of anarchy in one episode makes me glad that Janeway gets promoted after the series ends, as opposed to all the TOS/TNG/DS9 admirals who are repeatedly brought in to introduce the conflict of a superior with dubious moral values There's maybe one good VOY episode per season (and I only watched Voyager on the original airings) and the Void actually sticks with me as one I really enjoyed full stop. Another example of "the whole show should be like this"
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Apr 8, 2019 11:02
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Re-watching the earliest TNG series it's funny to see Quark turn up as two Ferengi, to see Alaimo be a few aliens and even to see Gowron as a human. I know DS9 brought people back because they liked them as actors but some parts (especially the Gowron one) are really short and I don't see how they'd have time to warm up to them! TNG memory alpha gives you so much less information about episodes than the DS9 rundowns do.
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Apr 17, 2019 11:49
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Angry Salami posted:The guys who play Quark and Rom play a lot of Ferengi on TNG - I assume it was because they'd shown they could act in the makeup, and they could probably reuse some of the prosthetics that had been molded for their faces, so it was easier to keep rehiring them than find another short actor who could play the part. Max isn't until a lot later, Armin's right in there with big characters straight off the bat. I'm just saying it's a shame that Memory Alpha doesn't give much info about why they keep getting picked where as in DS9 it goes all in with why J.G is used a load.
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Apr 17, 2019 12:57
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MorgaineDax posted:They definitely did that with other actors. The funny thing with that guy is that he's basically playing the same character the second time. There's even a "you all look the same" joke from Wesley, kinda. Easily the weirdest double use of the same actor. It's nice he's directing both of the star trek series, Picard and Orville. Never heard of Discovery though.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:46
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davidspackage posted:I liked that character, too. He had a fun plot where he had to learn to open his mouth when something weird happens. Two appearances. Not only that - they were one after the other! On my rewatch of TNG any of the side characters like that have been the thing I'd forgotten about. There's quite a lot - not just the random chief engineer people - and I don't know why only Chief O'Brien manages to stick about. I liked her because a sort of...dorky woman in the 80s was a lot rarer as a character and even after reading the memory alpha stuff I'm still not quite sure why they dropped her.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:03
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Automatic Slim posted:So..., Star Trek: Andromeda , then? Spoilers for the end of Discovery. (which I haven't seen) Andromeda isn't like that at all, I actually thought you'd be going for the Mass Effect one! I mean the federation has been destroyed and etc in Andromeda, within living memory almost. It's a different type of story than just 'it's the future'.
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Apr 20, 2019 09:19
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Windows 98 posted:I have arrived at Yar Dies To Black Goo in my TNG rewatch and it’s too soon. I notice that really Worf doesn't do anything in season 2 as "head of security", his only storylines are about being a Klingon. It makes me feel less like they didn't know what to do with Yar and more that they just didn't know what to do with a head of security when you're in a society that's not meant to have conflict.
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Apr 21, 2019 22:21
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Yar you beautiful strong security person who has not actually done anything but I still love anyway
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Orv posted:Even when Worf starts getting things to do as Head of Security it's basically either just looming at that weeks guest star before it's decided they're not a threat or, again, getting completely chumped and ignored. Yep. It's a good job they made him an alien so he could fill the "weird alien niche" that Spock had before.
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Apr 22, 2019 07:58
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Kibayasu posted:That’s not true. Series 2 of Orville is a whole new show and you're absolutely missing out on new Star Trek by not watching it. And I really don't like Seth, but I still look foward to the Orville every week. To carry on something said earlier I also find it really hard to watch the Star Wars cartoons because the animation feels so lovely to me. Even Resistance - which I was hoping might look a bit more old fashioned - is horrible CGI characters with bad faces. I've nothing against CGI, they've just done it in a way I don't like.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:58
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Thom12255 posted:Clone wars in the last few seasons is movie-tier animation though. The 2003 one is amazing. The 2008 one is the start of the lovely animation I mean.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:07
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