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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

So, like, is it me or is Pac-Man Championship Editon 2 kind of overly-bloated? I think i liked the first one more. The new one has more features but they feel kinda gimmicky rather than fun and the massive nerf to ghosts just feels weird.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Sakurazuka posted:

My only problem with CE2 is that I'm too old and slow to play it properly....

It's faster but I don't think it's faster in a good way. They made a lot of design decisions in favor of making everything turbo but instead it sort of leaves a lot of stuff without impact. Yeah, it's fast, but the fact that you can bump into ghosts multiple times before they even become able to hurt you, is silly. It actually feels less intense to me than CE1.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Wamdoodle posted:

Maybe it's just a symptom of a diseased mind (my own) but the Paper Mario Color Splash gif in the email Nintendo sent out is some body horror stuff:



I drink your toadshake!

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Palpek posted:

I'm back from vacation, did I miss some games?

You missed all the games, the greatest games, the hugest games.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

RE6 is a good core game tied to bad level design.

That is why mercenaries works because it's JUST the core gameplay without any of the rest.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Tenzarin posted:

Hey its cheaper than paying for Overwatch.

A friend of mine literally went from Overwatch to Paladins and I don't understand it.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Jay Rust posted:

What are some good recent Star Wars games? Last I played was like the Old Republic

e: I mean the Old Republic was my last Star Wars game, I don't remember if it was good or not

Star Wars has been in limbo for a long time during the Lucasarts crossover. Literally the only recent SW game beside OR was Battlefront which was eh.

EA has a whole shitload of Star Wars games in the wings but none of them are anywhere near show-ready.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Guy Mann posted:

I like roguelites with some degree of overarching progression (like Nuclear Throne's characters or Risk of Rain's items) but Rogue Legacy leaned way, way too hard on grinding out gold and blueprints/runes to power up your character. It's effectively impossible to beat the game without hours and hours of upgrades, especially since the collision detection and controls aren't nearly precise enough to get by entirely on skill.

If they rebalanced it to be shorter but less grindy it would be a much better experience.

I finished RL with 0 deaths back when it first came out. It's tedious but not really hard. It's not very fun to play it that way though.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Notch is proof that incredible success doesn't buy you mental health or happiness.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Lol

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Jay Rust posted:

If you had Notch's money, what would you do with it?

Live a shallow, hollow, unfulfilled life realizing that even when I have hit every possible metric of wild financial success I can do nothing about the gnawing emptiness inside of me and the forthcoming inevitability of my death.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

precision posted:

Haha, true, I meant the first part, not the "Cures Addictions" part. Then again, I've always been able to quit cigarettes any time I want and I've taken LSD so maybe myth busted?!?

"I've always been able to quit cigarettes any time I want" seems to imply you keep going back to cigarettes

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

mutata posted:

Ok! Games with fun, expressive, and/or creative crafting or building systems?

Depends on what you mean and for what systems. Are you looking for something more structured or something more freeform?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

mutata posted:

Any! Just looking for general call-outs for just the building or crafting systems. It doesn't even have to be a good game overall.


I assume you're already familiar with all the common Minecraft/Terraria/ect stuff.

Well, if you life crafting, looking into the Atelier games for the Vita/PS3. In particular Atelier Ayesha/Escha+Logy/Shallie are all about crafting poo poo and are pretty fun. There's also Atelier Sophie for the PS4 which has a great crafting system but is kinda bland otherwise.

Dragon Quest Builders comes out on PS4 next week and is pretty much like Minecraft + Actual Goals + Dragon Quest Spice.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Most people I notice going "i'm getting tired of video games" usually aren't tired of video games, they're just aging past the point they'll play almost anything that comes out and solidifying into a few games or genres they really enjoy. Which isn't a bad thing.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

tap my mountain posted:

Please don't wipe out the Yeerks, they're pretty harmless

Sorry, I already launched them all into space. They earned.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z is seriously one of the worst games I've ever played. It's not really buggy or anything just genuinely not a good game in any way. Yaiba is like DmC x 1000.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

smuh posted:

How does Inafune manage to be a producer/executive producer in so many good games yet half of his modern-ish stuff is really drat terrible. Guy has like two personalities, one of them just doesn't give a single poo poo about games anymore.

I think his last good game was Dead Rising 2? What the hell happened directly after that

Inafune had a strong production team behind him at Capcom. Comcept he's relying on outsourcing and hiring off the Capcom C-teams. If you look at the Comcept staff members he brings on they're mostly "worked on level design in Mega Man Star Force" stuff.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

chumbler posted:

I thought ReCore was supposed to be pretty decent and mostly hurt by technical issues that are presumably patchable.

ReCore has a strong basic gameplay but terrible level design and tons of unnecessary padding that sour the whole experience.

It genuinely feels like a $20 game that they were told to pad out to a full retail release, didn't quite manage it, and 'compromised' by making it $40 and neither short and sweet nor long and fleshed-out.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


Well, I guess it's time to get angry at Nintendo for removing that washing machine's vagina bones

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Sakurazuka posted:

Are top loading washing machines like that common in the US?

They're the vast majority of the ones I've seen, yes. I only ever see front-loaders at laundromats

Top-loaders are washers, front-loaders are dryers.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Phantasium posted:

Better than complaining about the same game for 3 years.

Man, complaining about the same game for 3 years is nothing. There are games on these forums people have been complaining about for nearly a decade.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Sakurazuka posted:

I can't think of a single JRPG that has auto-saves.

Bravely Default.

Fire Emblem.

Any Roguelike really.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Looper posted:

watching something with your buddies in dead silence when not in a movie theater is kinda weird

Yeah, the idea of sitting in a room with my friends never speaking or interacting just sounds weird and depressing.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

This has been such an excellent month I'm legit not sure what my GotM is. I've got at least three candidates which is nice.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I'd argue that The Last of Us is one of the better-written games to come out recently. It's manipulative but it's one of the few games I can think of that has actual coherent themes, arcs and execution of those and has enough depth that you can actually discuss character motivations without going (X) IS THE GOOD GUY.

That isn't high praise for writing in general but that still puts it above 90% of most games on the market. Video games through their very nature generally fail at most basic writing elements unless they are so scripted nothing can break (and usually they fail even there.) Even most of the really good story-driven games I can think of are good because they offer freedom and flexibility but in doing so they usually end up being empty and incoherent because they can't actually address anything or develop coherent arcs.

I'd be genuinely curious to hear what the better-written games are if TLOU is so terrible.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


I was honestly hoping for a real answer. You mentioned you're a dev and a freelance writer so I was wondering what your gold standard was. I wasn't looking for a "gotcha" thing, I just wondered where you were coming from.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Looper posted:

also when I say emotional manipulation, I'm mostly thinking of the introduction with Sarah and the end of the DLC when Riley and Ellie reconcile

I think emotional manipulation is necessary in games and honestly fairly overt emotional manipulation is necessary in an ideal game writing situation.

A major difference between a movie and a game is player action. Players don't just need to understand or sympathize with a character they, to some degree, need to want to support their actions. This doesn't mean they need to think the character is 'right' but they need to want to follow through on their actions for reasons besides "the game made me do it." A lot of the strongest moments in games are ones where the game plays with your emotions so significantly that, even if it's just for a moment, you're in the avatar's head. There's a lot of clever tricks for this and while not all of them work when they do work they're significant and amplify what would otherwise be simple moments into something more significant.

It's forceful but I think it has to be forceful because the game is demanding more from the player than a film would. It also inherently is going to fail for some people and I don't think that's a sign it failed unless the 'it fails' group becomes a significant number. (The ending of Prince of Persia 2006 is a good example here, where the extreme emotional manipulation was so out of tone with what the game earned it got a fairly big backlash.) Player choice is obviously a significant factor but I also think a well-written game is one where the player acts on a 'choice' (even a false choice) so readily that they don't even think about it.

If you look at it from the outside, yeah, it's pretty cheap but I don't think games stand up as well to being just looked at from the outside. It's an experience where the interaction is an integral part of the whole and not just in the "I can change how the plot goes" sort of way.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LoveBoatCaptain posted:

It doesn't really matter how good the writing is if the story you're trying to tell isn't good. The story is basically "Joel and Ellie go from A to B" with very little else going on in the overarching story.

That's a really disingenuous way of phrasing the story and a really bad way of looking at writing.

The story of The Last of Us is about Joel and Ellie's personal growth and development. The post-apocalyptic-zombie-cordycept setting is nothing more than an excuse for providing a thematically appropriate background for the game and that development. It was never about the zombies in the same way that very few zombie films are about the zombies. They are there to provide a setting. If you only look at stories to see the literal events (or god forbid to be 'surprised' ) you're never going to encounter a good story. Certainly not in games and especially not outside of games.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LoveBoatCaptain posted:

I mean, why not just make the game about regular zombies if the cause of the zombies wasn't going to have an impact on the story?

The cause of the zombies did have an impact on the story. Ellie's immunity is a plot point. It is, however, not relevant where it came from. The only relevant thing is that Ellie is immune and that sparks Joel to take an action he normally wouldn't which allows for their development to happen. They could have written this around regular zombies but why not do something a bit more original with it? It allows them more flexibility with interesting set pieces and monster designs.


LoveBoatCaptain posted:

I do think my other complaints still stand, though.

They're similarly sort of weird.

Like you straight-up say "this bad person is introduced, ergo that means this other person is the Good Guy" but that's pretty much a straight rejection of how a lot of fiction works. A bad character existing doesn't mean you're supposed to view another character as the Good Guy, especially someone like Joel. In particular that entire chapter was explicitly not about Joel and instead put you in control of Ellie for the vast majority of it. He's a 'worse person' than Joel but that isn't to emphasize that Joel is a better person.

Likewise I can't disagree strongly enough with your division of "movie writing" and game writing. It seems more like what you're doing is placing emphasis on world building above all else. Which makes sense in that world building is one of the things games do strongly but it can't be all they do. If you only do world building and never anything else you end up with an extremely limited and narrowly-focused set of storytelling opportunities. Every game shouldn't be "cleanup the mess" and every protagonist shouldn't be a nobody. Not only does that strongly limit design choices but it ignores the way games can cleverly influence the player to make them feel certain ways.

LIke for example here: God of War 3 is by no means a well-written game but it does a very clever thing. The final boss fight against Zeus is the climax of three games of utter bullshit against an arrogant poo poo. When you finally get him down to the end of his life you're prompted to do a QTE involving mashing O to smash his head in. What the game doesn't do is tell you that this goes on as long as you mash O, and a lot of people who play the game will smash for a long time before gradually realizing the trick once the adrenaline wears off. It's a smart gameplay trick which briefly puts the player into the same "smash smash smash... ah, it's over" sort of mindset as the character.

There's a lot of small things games do which people never really think about but which serve the goal of using existing characterization and gameplay mechanics to enhance a story in a way that you couldn't do in a movie. To use The Last of Us as an example again there's a tragic scene where a character gets turned into a zombie. Prior to that there's a sniper sequence where you had to protect that character. Logically you probably know that the story is immutable and unchanging but a good chunk of people have admitted they worried they screwed up there and it was there fault the bad thing happened. It's an illusion but game writing thrives on illusions. That is something that a movie couldn't do. Someone watching a movie won't ever get the feeling "poo poo, could I have stopped this?" which games thrive on. This is also why it's kind of a flaw to look at a game and go "Well, nothing REALLY changes." That's true. It doesn't more often than not. However where a game succeeds is in if it provides you, even for a moment, the idea of guilt, frustration, anger, excitement or other emotions born from the interactive elements. It is why something like Until Dawn can succeed despite being almost unchanging if you look at it from the outside. In the heat of the moment it can provide an illusion and succeed..

(I'm also not trying to pile on you or anything, I just think it's an interesting subject to discuss.)

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Wait, you mean to tell me the video footage of multiple people cheerfully dancing around an unreleased game system may, in fact, not actually be accurate? I am shocked!

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

In Training posted:

as i was playing through Dream Land 1 I came across this:


I wonder if original plans were for there to be a bunch of Kirbys

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Lizard Wizard posted:

hmm

do i want to buy civ 6 or xcom 2????

XCOM 2. It's cheaper by now and you're not going to be stucking getting in during the early days of bugs and patches.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Lizard Wizard posted:

Did it launch at more than $60?

No but I can't imagine it would be hard to find it somewhere less than full price and it's gone on sale a few times for crazy cheap.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

oddium posted:

buy it on ps4 and tell me of it's worth getting

It's worth getting if it is the only version of XCOM 2 you can play but if there's even a remote chance your PC can run XCOM 2 you shouldn't bother.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Snak posted:

If I only have a ps4, what Yakuza titles are available to me? I feel like it's a franchise I should check out.

Yakuza 0 is coming out in January. That's the first PS4 one unless they are on PSNow

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

PantsBandit posted:

The new DBZ game came out today and it looks loving boss. Unfortunately I'm not in the financial situation I was when the first one came out so I can't blow $60 on it (especially with Dishonored 2 around the corner) but goddamn I want some gokus in my life.

I know it honestly probably doesn't make it better but the current launch version doesn't really contain too much content over the first one. You're better off waiting down the line for when you can get the game + the inevitable DBSuper DLC Season Pass stuff for cheaper so you'll get the best of all worlds. Most of the new stuff right now is balance changes and improvements to the general interface more than new stuff.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

In Training posted:

The new doom has bad level design and creating a FPS around invincible instakill animations is fundamentally bunk.

The funny thing is that almost nothing you've said here is correct (including the 'invincible install animations" part.)

... also the new Titanfall has monster arenas, melee animations and everything else you've complained about while also being significantly slower than Doom 2016.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

In Training posted:

If you just pulled the first levels from each Titanfall would be way better in every capacity.

... no?

The first level in Titanfall kind of sucks a lot actually. You don't have access to most of the stuff in the game, it barely even gives you the jump pack. The best Titanfall 2 level is the time travel one midway through the game.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

In Training posted:

Ive never seen a melee takedown because you don't have to do them, that's the whole point. You can just run past every encounter except bosses, which is what I've been doing.

Okay? Except TItanfall has multiple areas where you're locked in and forced to fight enemies so this also isn't true? I mean there are parts you can run through and that's cool but there's plenty of monster arenas and poo poo too.

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