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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
One thing that CAH is really good for in parties where people aren't board game nerds is that it generates a lot of discussion really well (since each round is a turn of dirty jokes.) I wouldn't want to play something more involved or gamey than that when you're at a party to socialize and get drunk or high in your order of choice.

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Bigger numbers are fun, hth

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Plutonis posted:

I forgot the D&D movie starts with the narrator straight up saying Mages rule the world and people who can't do magic are treated as peasant scum

I mean when it's Jeremy Irons ruling things then yeah, we are all scum

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Speaking of minority representation Paizo lent their iconic Pathfinder characters to the Kingdom Death guys for use as characters in the new edition of KD. Including their three most prominent women. Wonderful.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Kwyndig posted:

Other than that, I've got no idea. Remember that this is a guy who built his business model around a favorable exchange rate, and when the Canadian dollar got too strong, it torpedoed his company.

This is how a lot of Canadian companies work. Nothing abnormal.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Cinnamon Bear posted:

I'm digging through Shadow of the Demon Lord and theres a lot of cool stuff but so far I've noticed:

-the author seems to have a scat fetish
-seriously poo poo is everywhere
-playing with poo poo
-asslicking
-artwork of a cigar smoking wizard in jorts riding a bubble through space

considering one of sotdl's big inspirations is a game infamous for its shitfarmer classes, I'm not sure what you expected

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

unseenlibrarian posted:

Even better in, the steam tunnels under the local college campu...wait, no.

Or you could do it in the projects and use the tenements as real life dungeons complete with unpeople as monsters!

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Xiahou Dun posted:

Edit :


I find it kind of darkly humorous that you posted this while I was writing mine so they're next to each other.

Yep :(

As a disclaimer, I'm not actually advocating that. It's a reference to Davis Chenault (one of the Castle & Crusades' guys) ban from rpg.net for unironically suggesting it, though. LARPing while you get your vigilante massacre on.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Plutonis posted:

You don't need LARPing as an excuse to get upper class to middle class people to set the homeless on fire

For once I unironically agree with Plutonis. Did the Gates of Hell just open?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Doodmons posted:

I give you: Violence, the RPG which has exactly that as a premise.

That's the Greg Costikyan game, right? At least he was doing it tongue firmly in cheek. Davis Chenault was pretty drat serious.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

Ah geez Arivia, I didn't get the reference - that was a bad joke, I'm sorry.

No worries, that's why I clarified. Trad Games has changed a bit from when we all kept up on the good bans over there. Also I thought it was an appropriate response to the concept, if a bit ghoulish in context yes.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

My Lovely Horse posted:

I'm eyeing the stuff I came up with for a Final Boss Fight and I'm getting the urge to grab my group's character sheets and play through the thing by myself just to see if I've made any glaring errors with the mechanics that would only reveal themselves during play. Is that as objectively insane as it feels? I have less than a 100% positive track record with custom stuff and the Final Boss Fight had better be good.

Nah, it's not unheard of, especially for heavy rules systems. Go for it.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Plutonis posted:

I don't want to sound callous or anything but as a citizen from a third world country that had a loving coup last year and whose economy, social order and welfare is disintegrating increasingly fast ever since, I'm playing a mollecular violin to US liberals who think they are in a lovely situation.

I'm playing no violin because I and 99% don't give a poo poo about you or your problems. You're a horrible person and you deserve whatever you get.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Bedlamdan posted:

Plutonis deserves to die because you think his posts are mean.

Have you heard of this cool new rpg called Beast: the Primordial?

No, I have zero sympathy for Plutonis after he threatened to stalk and kill me and Ettin. You should be banned for your bad posting and general stupidity, but I'd save you from a burning building.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

That Old Tree posted:

The only proper way to play TES tabletop is to precisely replicate the Daggerfall engine on paper. It already used dice notations for much of its random numbers, many of which are laid out plainly in giant tables in an old out of print third-party guide.


HALTHALTHALTHALT

Now that's gaming at the highest level of all.

Check out Reelism. It's an amazing arena survival mod for Doom that includes the Daggerfall guards and some of the class sprites as enemies. Nothing quite like turning the corner in Dead Simple and coming face to face with HALTHALTHALTHALTHALTHALTHALT. I lost my poo poo.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Grog. Grog never changes.

This is from Dragon #8, in July 1977.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Evil Mastermind posted:

That Wisdom calculation is the best thing I've read all week. The Charisma one is the second best.

The interesting gotcha there is that that's Brian Blume, who was running TSR while Gygax hosed around in Hollywood. Grogs decry the Blumes for not being real gamers and I guess that's proof since the guy only did an hour of D&D a week!

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
It's obviously sarcastic. Blume even said it took "minutes of exhaustive research." The grogs are the guys who were pestering TSR for accuracy even back then.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Kwyndig posted:

That reminds me, did that actually make it into the errata or was he, for once, poking fun?

It made it into the FAQ, which is what Bulmahn (the guy in question) was referring to. Paizo takes errata in its strictest sense, to mean changes to physical books, therefore only producing it for the next printing of a book. This can make tracking online rulings about stuff a giant pain for their stuff. It did indeed make it into the errata for that book on its second printing last year.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Yawgmoth posted:

Look at this shameful GM not wearing a matching GMing cape.

Please tell me he's wearing his Gary Jackson approved HM codpiece. He doesn't want to lose his license right?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

It's kind of incredible how much of a gently caress up PFO was. The game is tailor made for the staid, procedural interpretation of a computer game.

Like, wasn't there someone that made a roguelike based on the OGL?

Yes, there's a 3e roguelike and another 3e based game. However, the OGL actually prohibits using it to make computer games, so PFO is based off of Pathfinder's not OGL creative property, not the rules.

Edit: also it should be noted that DDO is a very faithful translation of 3e. It's impenetrable to new users because it requires builds and all the usual 3e stuff.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Darth Various posted:

Incursion. There's even an update on the site about how the license is unsuitable for the game.
Also I played this years ago and it doesn' seem to have updated much since.

Well see there's deciding you need to rewrite the game to fix your old bad coding. Not great, but understandable. Then there's deciding you need to write new libraries. Ehhhh. Then there's deciding you need to write a new language to code it all in.

I think there might be a fan fork but not sure.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Serf posted:

I wonder if this was made before or after he was punched in the side of the head and ran off crying

Before. Those knockoff Magic cards have been around for awhile.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
I don't hate the people playing 5e. I do hate Mearls, Zak S, and the rest of them, and you know why. Don't pretend 5e is a neutral topic on these forums, something to despairingly cluck our teeth at like Palladium or bad World of Darkness books.

Beyond that, it's not very groggy to talk about how the latest edition of the most popular, best-known roleplaying game is horrible and bad from a creative and design standpoint. It's not just preference. 5e is objectively a bad game, one we've mocked since its introduction on these forums, and it's not stopping. It could be very little like 4e and that would be fine if it was good, which it isn't.

And yeah, it sucks that such a terrible game is the gateway to the hobby. That's also why there's so much conflict in the thread. Tons of new people who haven't played anything other than 5e, who haven't posted here before and don't know TG culture. They just want a peaceful place to talk about the game with other players, but they don't know why this forum doesn't like 5e at all. They want enworld and we're not that, but since it's popular there's a critical mass to make it something they try to enforce.

Arivia fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 12, 2017

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

nelson posted:

What you don't realize (or maybe you do) is you keep making GBS threads up all discussions of 5e when other people want to discuss it in a grown up manner. Just stay out of all 5e threads and it would be much better for everyone involved, including yourself.

I'm happy to discuss it in an adult manner. You just don't like what I have to say.

@Sion: Sure, RPGs can be pretty insular and breaking that down is great. But you don't do that with a game made by guys who harass, stalk, and doxx marginalized people. No matter how prominent that game might be.

@Covok: If people want to grow the community that's fine. They can start by playing better games not designed by human pieces of poo poo.

It's not threadshitting to be critical of 5e and the people who made it like we have been on this subforum for years. If people want a no-criticism 5e zone there are plenty of other places on the Internet for that.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Sion posted:

You don't get to decide that.

Are you kidding me? No, that's a choice we make as ethical people, unless you post on r/the_donald or worse. Grow the gently caress up.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Yawgmoth posted:

This has never been true about any topic nor do I expect it ever will be.

:ironicat:

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

I actually checked about this. They literally had very little to no impact. They checked with a bunch of notable people related to the hobby and had them play with it a bit. They were no more important then the other other 50ish people who tested the game.

So no the game was not designed by human garbage. Like all games it was likely at one point played by garbage.

This is incorrect. Mearls was pretty well embedded in the OSR community before 5e, and did nothing when presented with the information about what Zak and Pundit had done. Mearls even linked and supported some of Zak's attacks at various points, and Pundit kept running his mouth about what he was doing. They were very much involved.

@Nehru: You see a nazi, you punch the nazi. Doesn't matter if it's a game or Breitbart as their mouthpieces.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Ash Rose posted:

There are a lot of really important fronts for fighting fascism in this age, but honestly I don't think being obstinate in this way is doing anything for the cause, probably the best way to combat this sort of thing in the hobby is supporting game lines that are generally being cool and confronting lovely behavior when you see folks engage in it.

Like, I am all for punching nazis, but fighting folks for posting anything positive about a game that has vague ties to lovely people doing lovely things is a far cry from that.

And 5e is an uncool game and the game and the people behind it lead to a lot of lovely behaviour themselves.

I know they seem like vague ties, but I was here for that stuff, and it's far more than that.

And yes, i'm a trans woman myself, which is why i'm not standing for this poo poo.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Nuns with Guns posted:

They were still connected at the time 5e was being developed and when the consultants were tapped, so I imagine whatever rapport they had then was a factor in why Zak was invited to playtest. That said, I doubt anyone tapped just to consult had any impact on the game itself. Like I said before, it was a PR play to get endorsements for the game.

That said, I'm not going to hold anyone personally responsible for buying the 5e rule books, since it's not like the entire blowup is public or even notable outside of a few forums. It doesn't help that most TG drama happens in private Google+ circles (of all places???).

That's the thing of it, really. I can't blame people for being surprised SA is so virulently against 5e, but it happened and there's plenty of justifiable reasons for it, and people need to realize that this is never going to be a peaceable forum to talk about 5e in, with all the poo poo that went down here about it.

And fyi I try to stick to my guns about these things. I mentioned it in this thread before, but I'm no longer buying Paizo products after that poo poo with Kingdom Death, despite all the other good they've done. And you all know how much I like Pathfinder. If someone came up to me and asked if I'd recommend Pathfinder at this point I'd say no because of that poo poo, and tell them why.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

No it just kind of seems like you are really stubborn. Because I don't get the poo poo that went down about it.

From my and a bunch of other peoples largely uniformed point of view. A lot of you guys seem to just want to hate something because of a grudge against someone that has nothing to do with the product other then his name being in a book. And as a result try to ruin it for everyone else.

From looking at your posts, you don't seem to get a lot of things. If you've not understood it from this page, then you need to get new glasses. The product itself is really, completely bad. It is a retrograde piece of poo poo that isn't fit as a replacement for what came before it, and it has very little to nothing redeeming about it. And then, it was designed and worked on by three people who collectively harassed, doxxed, and stalked marginalized people, including one of our friends. Ethically, you don't buy products from bad people because that endorses them and their views. The people involved with 5e are bad. Don't buy it for that reason.

And that's a valid reason, no matter how small your world might be and how little sense that might make to you. For a larger example, go look up why people don't buy SodaStreams or something. You don't buy bad products, you don't recommend them, and you speak up when other people endorse them. It's only "ruining it" in the nerd sense where you are what products you buy, and that's just thirteen levels of hosed itself.

edit: Oh, and 5e's lip service to trans people is just that. Go look at what Paizo's been doing if you want someone who can actually be said to be doing work to diversify and push for positive representation in their products in the past. It's 2017. You can do better than single paragraphs of "trans people exist" and loving Transparent.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Most of the 3e problems are gone from my experience.

You think 5e's intellect devourer is acceptable and balanced. You are really bad at looking at that game fairly, and are not a good advocate in any way, shape, or form.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Ash Rose posted:

To be fair I think Monster Envy's "nothing special" comment meant 'not too outside the norm of this hobby' and not 'not worth caring about'.

Not that the former is a good thing either, mind.

Nah. He's been using that kind of language to dismiss everything for years now. You want to find the idiot troll, look at him.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Though once the thread is back up I do hope they stop harassing the people there. As the thread was greatly improving from how toxic it was for a while.

Disagreeing with people about the game being good isn't harassing them. It doesn't ruin the thread or make it unusable. You might not like it, but it's a fine thing to talk about.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Wow. I'm both impressed and a little saddened that happened for something you seemed to enjoy a lot. It's not something I really think about not being directly involved, but it must be pretty disappointing.

Yeah, it's frustrating in a lot of different ways. It hurts because I really respected the work Paizo was doing to involve more marginalized people and improve representation in pretty much every way they could. And then they sold off their most prominent women (including the lesbian couple) to the forced impregnation/tentacle rape/milking game. It was disappointing because I'd sold other people on Paizo and Pathfinder as a company that gets it, that is really working to make sure they're creating games for everyone.

The most personally frustrating point about not buying new products is that I wasn't able to find a copy of the new digest-sized softcover Core Rulebook before all this went down. I was really looking forward to having one of those for actually running the game, but I'm not paying for one now.

edit: Because let's be honest, between all the poo poo there is for Pathfinder and my old 3e stuff, there's nothing I don't already have covered. Bestiary 6 would have been cool, but I already have 11 books of monsters before I go looking at anything third-party or from books that aren't just new monsters cover to cover.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

P.d0t posted:

Do you want to whine about the itch to run 13th Age, or whine about running 13th Age, or whine about 13th Age in general?

What is this, Encarta 95?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

Are you loving kidding me with this poo poo, WOTC. A vardo is the literal word used to describe the wagons used by the Romani! That's not even being subtle about it!

That was probably the same word used by Tracy and Laura Hickman in the original module and therefore cannot be changed ever at all. Even if it's racist now and the world has moved on THIS CANNOT BE CHANGED. Never mind two Mormons maybe being wrong about a different racial group.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Plutonis posted:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/565410/

Why did Paradox even bought the license for

Ew Zak S wrote one of those.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

That Old Tree posted:

Ahahaha gently caress Paradox forever.

Pretty much.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

That got me thinking:

1. Are there any games that allow or expect you to play more than one character at a time?

2. Has anyone ever tried to deliberately play a game where a player controlled more than one character at a time, even for a game that didn't specifically support it?

3.5/Pathfinder's treatment of the Leadership feat fits number 1 above. By 3.5 it had degenerated straight up into "have a second character with some mild pretenses."

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Drone posted:

There's an apparently quite popular campaign supplement for old WEG d6 Star Wars that had the players not only playing multiple characters concurrently over the course of the campaign, but (IIRC) they also had to play specific characters and not player-generated ones.

I can't for the life of me remember what it was called but I vaguely remember some goon running it in an FFG Star Wars conversion as a Skype game a couple years ago.

The DarkStryder Campaign is what you're meaning I think.

@Gradenko: Not really, and for all the aforementioned reasons. It might be manageable as an exotic mount or something but otherwise I wouldn't touch that at all.

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