UKMT February 2017 - Welcome to Tiny Train World

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jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Namtab posted:

I'm glad we now agree that labour mps were not elected on a platform of opposing brexit

We'll see how many are left after they force it through.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 01:32

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 16:10

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

icantfindaname posted:

why does britain care so much about russia?

The secret is that most don't.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 10:28

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

I don't think she's had an impulse in her life. That's why she stayed as Home Sec for 6 years.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 10:29

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Pissflaps posted:

What did Corbyn ask about Brexit?

gently caress All, he talked about Trump instead.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 13:29

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

"Despite an economic meltdown rightwing populists failed to gain a foothold in [Spain]. Why?"

Because the meltdown was caused very directly by the right lol

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 16:32

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Private Speech posted:

Here's the article behind the paywall, it's quite an interesting read. Though they try to claim that the lack of benefits helped prevent the rise of the populist right, albeit without saying it's a good thing. Not sure how they square it with the case of the US which certainly doesn't have much in the way of welfare, but hey:

OK I completely disagree with most of the salient points this article lol

I mean you can say that there was no populist backlash but there was no government for nearly a whole year because no party had enough votes to form one, and all bets are off regarding coalitions, due to a massive scandal in PP's history, PSOE and Unidos Podemos being enemies, and the Spanish Liberals being a complete waste of time, which is also really a reaction against globalism (PSOE only recently ousted its own equivalent of Corbyn and abstained on Rajoy's investiture which allowed the formation of the government).

And as to the idea that Catalonia and the Basque region are vital to electoral success and a key check on nationalism - the two main parties, PSOE and PP, are both very much parties of national unity. Same as Labour and the Tories here. Unidos Podemos is the only national bloc that says their referenda should matter (they're always having referenda on independence). Even the Spanish Lib Dems aren't up for it! They're so postnational they're post-regional!

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 17:36

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Pochoclo posted:

Get ready for the pound to get pounded after the vote passes this evening without any loving significant amendments.

And in 2 years, better get ready to emigrate or something because gently caress.

You'll need a special passport for that, and doubters are off the list of potential claimants.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 18:31

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Pochoclo posted:

Forgive me if I am skeptical here, maybe I just don't know enough about the UK parliamentary system, but this was wayyyyyy too much of a "roll over and show my belly" act to believe that Labour will actually get hardline about amendments later if they didn't do poo poo until now.

Right.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 21:15

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

just one of those little missteps one makes that destroys a party.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 00:18

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

mfcrocker posted:

John McDonnell stated on Today that the most Labour will do to oppose this bill at third reading under any circumstances is abstain.

*hums 'Keep the red flag flying' while walking into the metaphorical no-man's-land of Brexit negotiations under badly-laid Tory artillery fire and a cloud of poisonous gas and MG fire by dickheads like Djisselbloem on the EU team*

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 11:21

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

feedmegin posted:

The first thing that happens if Labour builds a ton of council housing is that the Tories run on a platform of 'Right to Buy Two: Buy Harder' in the next election and win the election by flogging off all that housing, meanwhile blaming Labour for the tax rises needed to build all of said houses.

Who cares, the important thing is that houses are built.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 12:08

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Total Meatlove posted:

Add in restrictive covenants that don't allow for properties to be used for buy to let, or sold at more than 100% of the initial set price + inflation.

Alternatively, Just Build Some Houses instead of having local government pricks politick for months about covenants before they remember if they get taken to court by anyone over said cov's they are more or less statutorily forbidden from fighting back.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 12:34

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

WeAreTheRomans posted:

NI is already comparable to the KO. If NI is cut off from the mainland UK anymore, especially in economic terms, the majority will vote for reunification.

You think? Despite the relative lack of spending on public sector make-work in the Republic?

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 12:45

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

WeAreTheRomans posted:

As I see it, it hinges on (i) a new Scottish referendum galvanising public opinion, while Tories simultaneously cut funding to NI or otherwise impact the public sector. (ii) Enda Kenny's replacement (probably Leo Varadkar) being able to broker some sort of compromise arrangement with the EU, where we take on NI and avoid the border conflict in exchange for structural funding over a period of years to regenerate NI as a haven for fleeing British financial services. This could take the form of forgiveness of a certain proportion of ROI sovereign debt to the Troika

Yeah that right there is a series of events if there ever was one.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 13:20

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Pissflaps posted:

Has the EU ever before entered into such horse trading? It just doesn't seem to be something it does?

Depends if you see the troika as "The EU" or not since they play a pretty loose game.

jBrereton fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Feb 2, 2017

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 13:21

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Pissflaps posted:

I don't understand why the EU would be motivated to steep itself in British/Irish/Scottish politics to keep borders open or shut when it can just let the already complex process of Brexit unwind and.

It seems like pie in the sky thinking - especially so for Scotland where some nationalists seek to think the EU's prime concern is keeping them in the EU.

There is nothing more important to Jean-Claude Juncker than making sure the Europeans don't have to pay WTO tariffs on tunnocks teacakes you tory bastart

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 13:26

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Zephro posted:

How can the loving Northern Ireland Affairs Committee be so loving clueless about something that's utterly obvious to anyone with a brain cell and who's been paying attention to British history for the past few decades

Maybe they aren't clueless and they're making a big deal out of stupid poo poo like dog customs unions in a very weak attempt to pressure the UK government which at least under Tess de Villiers would not have any of it (James Brokenshire does come off like a thick oval office though).

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 13:51

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Zephro posted:

This isn't true. The government repeatedly interferes in the housing market by:

- Banning local authorities from borrowing to build council houses, with the borrowing secured against future rents. This is how council house-building was financed for decades but it's been illegal since the 1980s
- Failing to reform the planning system, which is a huge interferece in the housing market because it says there are large tracts of the country upon which you can't build houses no matter how severe the demand is
- Things like Help to Buy and LISAs and shared-ownership schemes, all of which literally and directly spend tax revenue to prop up house prices.

The trick is the government only inteferes if it will raise prices. It has no interest in lowering them, because homeowners vote.

The fuckin planning system is not a barrier to building houses, that is a MASSIVE lie the building firms love to perpetuate.

At the moment, if you want to build pretty much anything, you can do it, and if a local government says no, as soon as you threaten to take them to court expensively they pretty much have to cave unless it is provably in the best interests of tax payers to fight the case with an assumption the council will win (which is very seldom forthcoming).

Council planning offices take the loving piss when it comes to your average person wanting to put a conservatory up, but if you have the money to build 200 houses you can build your 200 houses.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 13:55

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

WeAreTheRomans posted:

Well, on first skimming of the document it's a load of meaningless arse-wash, as to be expected.

As pertains to the NI border issues (Section 4 and Appendix B), there's absolutely zero substantive information there, just a parroting of May's "seamless, frictionless" rubbish. NI is hosed.

Still don't really see why we won't just see a tightening of border controls out of Northern Ireland but maintain the lack of an internal border on the island.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 14:15

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

clear eyes full farts posted:

unionists would go mental if that happened, also it would still mean there would be in effect an open border with the eu

Things the UK government does not care about :

- Rocks getting chucked at PSNI on the Twelfth because Nigel fuckin Dodds wound people up about ID checks at ports and airports and how it's Impossible To Be Bridish Nowadays.

Things the UK government does care about :

- Not really wanting to erect a politically contentious and potentially embarrassing border given all the tax based tomfoolery that happens between the north and south already.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 14:31

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Sion posted:

Surprise, Liberal democrats are piss stain yellow.

Yes it's the Lib Dems who are the useless cowards here lol

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 14:36

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

A full two ninths of Lib Dems effectively backed the government by abstaining. Shocking.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 14:42

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

forkboy84 posted:

Well, there's no real need to restrict ourselves to just one party behaving shittly, and I think this thread has gone over the ground of how loving terrible Corbyn's handling of this has been.

Seeing as a fifth of Labour MPs defied a three line whip, 22% of the Lib Dems not voting seems pretty tame.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 14:56

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

forkboy84 posted:

Yes, but Labour aren't a one policy party. Liberals abstaining on Brexit would be like Nats abstaining on Scottish independence.

The Lib Dems aren't a one policy party either. Brexit is very important to them but then so is stuff like PR or surveillance.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 15:00

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Sion posted:

Too afraid of voting against it because it would impact their chances in an election. Too afraid to show up and vote because maybe the taxi driver on the way in would have been mean to them. Just because there were bigger collectives of useless cowards doesn't mean that there's isn't shame enough to go around

Yeah OK lol. The two guys who didn't vote to stop Brexit (note that neither voted for it) tarnished the party forever in a way that the leader of a party of 229 MPs whipping in favour of an amendment-free resolution to leave the EU could never hope to emulate.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 15:03

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Dabir posted:

The vote wasn't on PR or surveillance so what's their excuse?

Maybe they were unwell.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 15:03

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Fake Booze.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 16:18

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

UKMT, the thread where it is you who is the one with the headstaggers when you post a fairly innocuous tweet about MPs being at the pub without considering if it's all a ploy by the extreme right to discredit them when they don't turn up to vote for Brexit the day after.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 16:28

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Solicitor for Iraqis gets struck off, govt. predictably chipper.

quote:

A human rights lawyer who brought abuse claims against UK troops after the Iraq War has been struck off for misconduct.

Phil Shiner, from the now-defunct law firm Public Interest Lawyers, had 12 charges of misconduct proved against him by a panel of the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal.
He had admitted acting recklessly by publicly claiming UK troops unlawfully killed, tortured and mistreated Iraqis.

The defence secretary said Mr Shiner had "made soldiers' lives a misery".

Sir Michael Fallon told the BBC he was "delighted" that Mr Shiner had been "exposed".

"The decent thing for him to do now would be to apologise," he said.

etc. etc.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 16:53

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Clive Lewis is the last best hope for the party as has been properly established by two Guardian articles.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 17:03

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Alertrelic posted:

I'm not in the Labour party, Pissflaps. It's not my problem to fix.

In any case, the point isn't that David Milliband is still relevant, it's that people still think his politics is.

name some of those people

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 17:27

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

OwlFancier posted:

Which is a bit daft tbh, that assertion is a stupid one and not something I think should be clung to.

Same but replace "assertion" with "party leader".

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 20:05

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

kustomkarkommando posted:

Behold all the tabled amendments

OK so it's like half a dozen people pushing for all the important stuff and then there's effectively what are spoiler clauses by the SNP that will get tanked.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 23:45

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

El Grillo posted:

Can't find anything on this: the travel ban on Israeli citizens by Arab nations, is this something that has been in place effectively from Israel's inception?

Yes.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2017 00:47

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

An all-day brexit is an all-day brexit.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2017 00:52

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Private Speech posted:

Interestingly half of UKIP thinks that May is going badly about implementing Brexit, which is significantly more than tories (~14%)

I wonder what they want. Some sort of super-hard Brexit?

It isn't being done by Our Nige'.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2017 17:02

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Jippa posted:

You know you when you read some thing and you can just tell they aren't trolling.

He had a meltdown over a sixer - Sad!

# ¿ Feb 3, 2017 17:10

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Prince John posted:

it was seen as the only way to defend the constituencies where Labour are 'hanging on by their fingernails' to UKIP.

You Cannot Beat UKIP By Playing Their Game

# ¿ Feb 4, 2017 00:11

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Prince John posted:

Given Clive said the argument was made to him that breaking the whip would be letting Paul Nuttall in to Westminster, I'd say that's not a view shared at the top of the Labour party.

UKIP have the leader of Labour and one of the crucial shadow cabinet ministers Diane Abbott (who also totally loving bottled the Leave vote) on tape saying that immigration is totally sustainable. Some fuckin nobody councillor they bussed in for Newcastle-under-Lyme who was very against Brexit on twitter is not going to make the people who voted Leave there sympathetic to the Labour cause, and nor should the election of any 1 specific MP jeopardise the future of the Labour movement in all the places the people didn't vote for Brexit for gently caress's sakes.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2017 00:28

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 16:10

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Darth Walrus posted:

I did once find a pretty good effortpost on a pretty unlikely discussion forum that summarises why the SNP is awful and best avoided fairly well.

The SWP is indeed awful. The SNP is aggressively middlin.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2017 01:01

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