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So Anduin seems to be living up to the norm of being ridiculously good at launch.
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Apr 30, 2019 17:26
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SKULL.GIF posted:Illidan is still straight busted in QM as there's barely any coordination to work against him. Just gotta ignore for a few minutes your team crying that you aren't joining teamfights with your earth-shattering 80 damage at level 3 as you build stacks and soak XP. Once you get The Hunt then you can just join every single fight, soak up a couple more damage stacks, and then go back to farming waves and camps. Illidan is one of those heroes where normally you'd adjust comp against him, or at least ensure that the team isn't composed entirely of basic attacks without stuns, but in QM you'll play against teams that are ludicrously vulnerable to him and he can run amok without reprisal. It's a bit like how Butcher and Varian are hyper common in QM but not nearly as potent in SL because the other team will just get blinds.
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May 9, 2019 21:35
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Ronnie posted:It almost feels like the designers didn't like the idea of the current Horde War-chief was just a non-participating lane pusher. like they changed her for the sake of changing her without much of an idea what they wanted her kit to be. I think the new design is basically to get rid of all lane pushers and make regular team fights the focus. Which might have come from a well-intentioned place but I think they did more harm than good since it eliminated so many parts of the game that were unique to HOTS.
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May 12, 2019 23:34
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Kith posted:They're not getting rid of lane-pushers explicitly, they're just trying to make them better at things that are not specifically lane pushing. There's just a lot of different effects that are working together to make the heroes much more homogeneous. They despecialized the specialists to focus them on the teamfights, while also weakening the creeps so that the games didn't take longer. This also meant that there was less single-laning overall, which reduced the value of a lot of the assassins and bruisers who then needed to be adjusted for the new design. Then some of the maps were adjusted as well, further focusing attention on teamfights. In the end a lot of the characters have lost their uniqueness, the few holdouts like Abathur and TLV struggle to maintain relevance, and the diversity of play has become reduced since hero selection doesn't really do much to adjust map strategies. It's not like it's unplayable or anything, but I do think it's difficult to justify this wholesale re-envisioning that has taken up so much of the dev focus over the last year. I assume there was a vocal population somewhere that was clamoring for team fights to be the single deciding factor in the game, but to my mind the game has become more sterile as a result. Kaal fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 01:21
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Paranoid Peanut posted:or claiming "gg" at two minutes in after losing the mindless initial mid-lane brawl To be fair, there are definitely games where the outcome is extremely clear nine minutes in, but you'll still have to drag it out for another 10.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:25
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Charles Bukowski posted:I see muted people every now and then. Perhaps at least harassment reports work sometimes? It's just really hard to tell how well reports work because as a player you don't get any feedback on it. You report a jerk, they're added to your queueing blacklist, and that's the end of it. But yeah you do see people who have been muted, so you have to assume there's some sort of system in place where enough complaints merit a punishment.
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Jun 16, 2019 22:14
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Right now it seems like the current state of the game puts all the competitive elements into the first 15 minutes or so. The compounding effects of knocking down a fort or two, as well as the typical outcomes of the team fights due to composition and player skill, get established and work to reinforce the winning team. After that it's typically a victory lap. By adopting the game elements of more popular MOBAs in the latest rebalancing, HOTS also incorporated their tendency to promote statistical snowballing and lopsided games.
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Jun 30, 2019 15:37
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Grimdude posted:Me and my lovely friends who play this keep getting wrecked by the new hero. Not sure I'd agree she's busted or anything, but her spinning around while invincible and stunning people is annoying. Besides her plentiful AOE damage and stuns and slows for days, she also has high levels of armor and a wide variety of utility options. She's good at every part of combat and has excellent range for both engaging and disengaging. It's not shocking that everyone wants to play as her, her kit is overwhelming and her talent trees are highly competitive. She's fun to play, but clearly needs to be toned down. Kaal fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 21:07
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One of my favorite beginning lines that I've read in chat was "Good luck, have fun until we start losing and yelling at each other."
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Sep 18, 2019 15:40
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It's funny because while I most enjoy playing exciting Assassins or Bruisers like Nova or Artanis, I've come to terms with the fact that I have a much better time playing heroes like Azmodan or Stitches where I have enough range or health to be independent enough to have fun regardless of how competent my team is.
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Sep 19, 2019 02:34
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Aaod posted:I loved pre nerf Nova and to a lesser extent Stitches because I could heavily punish people who were out of position, but they kind of destroyed her. The hell is the point of a hero with less utility and escapes who does the same burst damage and worst sustain than other assassins? Stealth still doesn't work in high level play either but that is a whole other discussion. Oh yeah, the Stealth element is virtually useless. All it does is provide a minor shield against auto-target attacks. You can still set up ambushes and spec for a fairly decent burst-damage with armor-piercing rounds, but you really need the support of your team to do it without rolling the dice on whether you'll get discovered and destroyed.
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Sep 20, 2019 13:08
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appropriatemetaphor posted:You can just hold still for a second and be totally invis? Seems useful but I never play nova Oh for sure, but people know to look for that and use vision-granting or check bushes and the like. It works when it works, and gets you killed when it doesn't, so it's not super reliable.
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Sep 20, 2019 19:53
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Alternatively, when you have a Butcher on your team who has 30 meat 15 minutes in, and you realize that at this point the Murky is actively hunting him. Fun times!
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Sep 29, 2019 20:36
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There still hasn't been any equivalent of the shapechanging, support-magic-casting Druid class from Diablo II. I think it's the last of the heroes that hasn't been represented from the series (unless you want to draw distinctions between Sorceror, Sorceress and Wizard, or Rogue, Assassin and Demon Hunter, etc.). Diablo also offers the last Prime Evil, Baal Lord of Destruction, and the Lesser Evils Andariel, Duriel, and Belial. Finally there's supporting characters that could be promising, including Tal Rasha, Leah, Adria, Lazarus, Rakanishu and the Cow King. Kaal fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 21:18
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Charles Bukowski posted:What would he do? Blaze already makes bunkers. Anti air turret would only counter uhh Jimmy and Morales? Maybe it could he a half a hero like Murky and pair with Hammer? There's a few different ideas that have been floated before. Mining resources from killing creeps or attacking buildings. Repairing heroes or structures using those resources. Constructing and upgrading different buildings like Barracks (spawns creeps), Missile Turrets (places fort turrets), Refineries (provides XP or hero resources), or Bunkers (defends heroes). Heroic abilities might include Planetary Fortress upgrades for Forts/Keeps, or upgrading the SCV itself into a Warhound combat unit with anti-armor Haywire missiles. Basically making a character that treats HOTS like a strategy game rather than a MOBA. Some sort of cross between Abathur, Zagara, TLV, Gazlowe, and Probius. But the issue is largely that these sorts of specialist characters have been methodically reformed / made obsolete to bring them more in line with traditional MOBA gameplay. Holding the line and maintaining lane pressure just isn't that important any more, particularly since any character can just show up to collect XP when enemy creeps walk into a fort. It used to be that a good specialist could single-handedly push or defend a lane, but that's just no longer the case. An SCV hero would either represent a complete walk-back of those principles, or probably wouldn't seem like an SCV. Kaal fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 18:20
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I want an SCV hero that gets empowered every time an ally wanders off into mid on their own and gets eaten by Butch.
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Oct 7, 2019 03:59
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Aaod posted:To me the badly balanced heroes such as the Overwatch ones or how they keep dumpstering heroes I enjoyed such as Nova was only one part of why I stopped playing. The biggest thing was I realized certain game designs and blizzards player base causes issues in addition to the massive lack of players. The concept of everyone sharing exp and getting rid of the idea of carries were great on paper, but I eventually realized instead of what it is supposed to do which is help bad players and encourage teamwork it just punishes good players and the bad players still make the game worse to the point of people raging which is especially bad because blizzard aims at a more casual audience. The idea of carries is dumb, but the opposite scenario makes me feel like I am chained to 4 other people and if one of them is an idiot and dies 15 times or does stuff like refusing to contest objectives we are still going to lose and their is less I can do because I can't just carry the game myself as easily as I could in other MOBAs. In other words If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot. The idea of sharing xp and getting rid of carries is a solid one, because it promotes teamwork, but the focus should have been on eliminating statistical carries where the winner just powers up their character until any idiot could win with them. Individual players should be able to make an impact through excellent play, and that's where HOTS struggles. It often seems that games are decided early on because bad teammates create doomed strategic positions, and that's a frustrating place to be in. And the gameplay shift away from specialists and towards focusing on objective team fights with faster and more deadly heroes has only doubled-down on this issue. When a fight can be decided in seconds, and the losers have little option but simply withdrawing and regrouping, there's little that a single player can do. So much of HOTS just comes down to simple composition and positioning, which doesn't leave a whole lot of room for tactical play. Deepening the Talent Tree, empowering skill shots, and slowing and bulking out heroes would go a long ways towards improving the complexity of the game so that players could make an impact without having an endless snowball quest like Butcher. Kaal fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 06:40
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Deathwing is a stupid LOL ADC hero, of course he's fun to play. Everyone likes being the boss. He's no more vulnerable to percentage health dealers than anyone else, and has plenty of mobility and CC to deal with them. And anyone else gets stomped. The real question is why play anything else. The XP globes are a good idea but they're implemented really poorly because the collection range is like a quarter of what it was before, which has had all sorts of rebalancing effects hitting the already heavily nerfed ex-specialists.
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Dec 4, 2019 15:56
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Grimdude posted:I've played a few games against him and they were rear end beatings. I played frog nazeebo and got all 5 frogs to hit him almost every time. All this means is that you can build against him by picking the handful of heroes whose abilities aren't rendered impotent by him. QM is filled with Nazeebo right now for exactly that reason. That's just dumb balancing.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:45
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I played a Brawl today where we had three Deathwings and someone still decided to be Anduin, does that count?
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Dec 6, 2019 15:04
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I think the fundamental problem with Deathwing isn't so much the hero itself, though it's certainly pretty absurd, but how it has a massive effect on QM composition. If DW is up against a bunch of percent-damage dealers then it's pretty nullified and doesn't contribute much. But if it's against a team of low-damage CC types then it can single-handedly carry a lot of games. The already swingy QM gameplay has become hugely reliant on auto-matching protocols that players have no control over - leading to a lot of stomps. Either you participate in the meta that has rendered dozens of heroes obsolete, or you run the risk of simply losing because you're on the wrong end of a dragon that your team can't do anything about. Brawl has this element a bit, having some AOE heroes like Kael'thas or Kel'Thuzad that can intrinsically dominate the mode, but at least there's enough randomization that you're not likely to see one every game. As it is, QM is rolling the dice during comp as to whether a match will be at all competitive. Obviously you can avoid this issue entirely with parties and Storm League, but the vast majority of players aren't using those features.
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Jan 13, 2020 05:12
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Aaod posted:That is just another example of the Genji problem where if you have no hard CC on your team you just auto lose if the enemy Genji is competent which shows either QM is a mode that shouldn't be supported, people need to be better at drafting, and or that rock paper scissors heroes don't work very well. Genji, like you said, requires competence to play well. Deathwing definitely doesn't. And he shuts down a swathe of heroes in a way that Genji never has. If this is the new meta then QM is unplayable since every game is just up to the comp gods. And all that is before getting to the actual experience of playing against him, which is mostly just frustrating bullshit. Even without considering the massive health, healing, AOE damage, and burst - it's effortless to prevent a team from capping an objective just by lobbing fireballs or laying down a carpet of fire. And if you're playing a hero that isn't designed to counter him, then there's very little you can do about it other than wait for a new game. Like the xp balls, the devs have been feeling fairly willing to enact changes with or without public support for them. Since from all accounts the developers seem pretty happy with playing DW, and don't seem that concerned about the effect the hero is having on QM mode, it probably isn't going to change at all so this is just the new game. Kaal fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jan 13, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 08:21
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Kith posted:I've been saying for years that extreme designs and hard-counter heroes were going to gently caress things up and part of me is happy that Deathwing is showing how true that is. Since the devs seem pretty happy with Deathwing, perhaps they should round out the nonsense counters by offering up an anti-mage bruiser that is healed by ability damage. Sorry Li-Ming, time to try out an AA build! Then finish the set with a tank boasting an aura that slows enemy attack speeds by 100%. Practice your stutter-stepping Illidan! Kaal fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jan 13, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 14:25
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Yeah the timed element is pretty critical there, not to mention that it's a Level 20 talent rather than a Level 0 trait. It's the difference between adding a wrinkle and completely shutting down an entire type of hero.
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Jan 15, 2020 23:10
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Shadowlyger posted:You can absolutely still multi-soak with Abathur, you just have to be way more aggressive with your positioning and proactively use your symbiote to pick up orbs that would have otherwise been missed. Using your symbiote is absolutely the way to go. Just pop it for a second to grab the globes at the right track one. The Abathurs that get in trouble try to forward position and get rocked.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:17
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Shadowlyger posted:Not if you're Fan, apparently. Hahaha wow that's amazing.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:16
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appropriatemetaphor posted:i don't even kow what hon is so gonna say that's tik tok Heroes of Newerth is ten years old and stopped getting content updates last year, so perhaps it's more like Myspace or cable television.
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Feb 11, 2020 18:53
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WITCHCRAFT posted:I miss old abathur, not just before XP orbs but before his rework. I had a match with near 75% siege damage and 50% team xp back then. By far my most ludicrous score screen on any hero. Not possible anymore. Yeah I think that the specialist reworks generally have been unsuccessful. While heroes like Abathur / Azmodan / TLV can still have moments to shine given the right comp, they're generally inconsistent and unimpactful. And it's totally messing up QM balancing, because a team of ex-specialist lane pushers are not the same as assassins / supports and are going to get rocked if they don't have actual team fighters. As for Aba talent picks specifically, I generally just have two approaches: a generalist build emphasizing the Locusts, and a Symbiote support build to create a melee assassin hat carry. I've tried the Carapace and Toxic Nest builds, but they just don't really work for the current game. Kaal fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 08:42
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Kith posted:Xul rework out of nowhere, for ?????? reasons. I like how it makes him even more unstoppably powerful when there aren't any counters fielded against him. The new Xul: We heard you liked effortless bullshit so here's some more.
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Mar 12, 2020 14:37
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Mostly Xul seems to be constantly shedding skeletons that pump out plenty of area damage, and has excellent shielding plus fairly hard CC and a buffed AOE poison blast. I'm regularly seeing him put out 100K siege and 50K hero damage in a game. And it's not like it's difficult - every ability is basically automatic. He can rotate around knocking down forts singlehandedly, or derail counterpushes, and does just fine in team fights. He's not game-breaking the way Deathwing was (and still is in many ways), but it certainly seems like a classic overtune.
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Mar 12, 2020 20:23
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Cuntellectual posted:I played a game for the first time in about 2 years and Deathwing is 15,000 gold? Didn't he come out like, 4 months ago? Initially he was 20,000 gold. I believe they intended that he be the first Epic tier hero, though I think they backed off on actually doing that.
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Mar 19, 2020 01:48
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Look just because a new hero is really expensive and also gamebreakingly good when introduced, and kept that way for months .... nah I got nothing, it was stupid.
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Mar 19, 2020 02:34
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I literally just unlocked my last hero (Deathwing) this week. Very timely! But really, good for them. It's a token offer, but gestures matter.
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Mar 21, 2020 05:24
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On the other hand, it just worsened HOTS' tendency of releasing massively buffed heroes, since now every single game is just Xul and Deathwing versus munchkins. These heroes shouldn't be out of PTR and it really shows when every single player has access to them.
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Mar 25, 2020 17:16
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Shockeh posted:Make Abathur Monstrosity count as a Hero for effects, you cowards. Personally I'm a firm believer that making Deathwing count as both a Hero and a Monster would go a long ways towards balancing him. Also speaking of cowards: They should bring back Haunted Mines. Balance is clearly unimportant, and it was a fun and different map. Kaal fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 03:16
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After the repeated nerfs, Deathwing can be fine in league where you're likely to build a composition against him, but he still wrecks Quick Match which is where most people actually play. He has a very narrow talent list, and he's the definition of a hero that can win the game at comp. There needs to be more ways for other heroes to engage with him mechanically.
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Mar 29, 2020 12:34
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Epsilon Plus posted:Didn't Gazlowe get a rework semrecently? Or did he just get new talents/buffs? He hasn't been touched since early last year, and that was only a slight change. He's been benefiting from the experience globes though.
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Mar 30, 2020 18:01
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Ignite Memories posted:Don't worry guys, i've been diligently emailing and campaigning on the blizzard forums for the changes we need as a community Dorkard Cain sounds amazing, can't wait for this critical update.
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Apr 3, 2020 00:09
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, maybe. I'd like to see them get a talent rework that doesn't dramatically change the playstyle or purpose of the hero, and based on previous ex-Specialist reworks, I have a feeling a TLV rework from Blizzard right now would be a lot more sweeping than that. Yeah same. All the way around Blizzard has basically given up on their original idea of forcing teams to balance team fights with laning - the contemporary game is overwhelmingly in favor of team fights and any hero that threatens that has been methodically stripped of their laning ability.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:02
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W.T. Fits posted:I still remember when using Abathur to tunnel in to the enemy base, dropping a bunch of ranged locusts, then using your hearthstone to recall to your own base was considered a broken, uncounterable strategy that would guarantee three dead enemy keeps. Still remember? That was the end of January. And it was broken and stupid so they patched it out within three weeks.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:23
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