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anime was right posted:"Helping Small Businesses, Start-Ups & Job Creators: Small businesses are the lifeblood of our economy and job creation. Kamala is committed to both making sure small business owners have access to capital and to cutting excessive red tape. As Attorney General, she supported efforts to stop abusive lawsuits against small businesses and business owners, and in Washington she will fight for our California small businesses and job creators." of course she is Clinton and Obama are the only successful Dem presidents in the last half century, they're gonna cling to that playbook at all costs, and any time they lose they'll just say it's because they didn't stick to the playbook hard enough
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Jul 16, 2017 17:28
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ThndrShk2k posted:https://mic.com/articles/182238/the-democrats-biggest-donor-says-the-party-is-blowing-it-and-should-get-behind-bernies-platform#.KU6Z9lNiK lol that his list of "progressive policies to address inequality" is infrastructure spending, clean energy, and higher pay for 1099 workers he's saying that Sanders' messaging is cool and good, but this hedge fund billionaire doesn't seem quite on board with "eat the rich" as an actual policy
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Jul 16, 2017 17:52
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etalian posted:The fact that contract work is becoming so common is another sign that the whole US economy is really hosed up in terms of worker's rights. nah, it really just demonstrates that the DoL is lacking in the will or the resources to prosecute this stuff misclassifying workers as 1099s isn't allowed, but companies can get away with blatantly illegal poo poo anyway, the government doesn't get involved unless someone reports it and then it can sit in court for years Vox Nihili posted:im glad bernie sanders created the left wing whole cloth as an act of pure will no, don't you see in those people's world, the Democrats were left wing until radical socialist Bernie Sanders tricked college kids into thinking that only people with his personal seal of approval could be called the left that's why lanyards get really sour when Bernie says a Dem isn't progressive. to them, "progressive" and "liberal" are synonyms, and they think anyone to the left of Kasich is a progressive and a lefty
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Jul 17, 2017 00:11
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Thoguh posted:I'll preface this by saying that I in no way advocate violence. But I'd think the concern isn't some armed insurrection, but pissing off enough people that guys like the congressional softball game shooter start to become something they have to worry about. nah, the concern is that poo poo like the softball game shooter becomes too prevalent and organized and widely supported to contain the Gilded Age was full of anti-capitalist terrorism, bombings, and outright assassination attempts. capital didn't care. the big nightmare for capital was that the violence would gain support and spread throughout the population, going from just "a bunch of isolated radicals or localized organizations" to "a major regional or national movement", one that they couldn't contain with just more private security and draconian police crackdowns. the thing they fear most isn't "more shooters", it's "the general population perceiving the shooters as martyrs rather than criminals"
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Jul 17, 2017 16:13
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ThndrShk2k posted:Hot take: capitalism itself is bad yes, people are bad, but that's a problem any system has to grapple with. the problem with capitalism is that it relies on some basic assumptions that either aren't true (like "there will always be enough work for everyone, labor-eliminating measures will generate enough jobs to be a net gain") or morally unacceptable (like "access to basic necessities should depend on the value to provide to capital"). The regulatory mechanism that capitalism provides to explain many of its supposed advantages, the so-called "invisible hand", fails more often than it succeeds and is so easily subverted that it's largely a fictional mechanism. capitalism is fundamentally a broken system, one that happened to be decently-suited to the conditions of the 19th century but is largely outdated and obsolete now
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Jul 17, 2017 17:13
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Venom Snake posted:Young people in the D.C. area are very down with socialism and it's awesome how much it freaks out the donor class of the party. Tim actually asked me about the DSA last time I met him people only tolerated capitalism because most modern flavors are interpreted to mean that if you worked hard you'd get a decent living of course, that was never true, but due to various coincidental factors, it seemed close enough to true for the dominant demographics, so all capitalism's losers and victims could be dismissed as lazy inferiors who didn't try hard enough now that most of those factors have changed and ordinary white male manual laborers are getting hosed over, people are mad
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Jul 17, 2017 20:09
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:It's kind of weird how many Shillbots now try to claim that prison labor isn't slave labor lol liberals love it because it seems really similar to work release programs and they can crow about how rehabilitative it is giving prisoners chances to learn real-world skills while being rented to capitalist scum as free/cheap labor that will be punished with bad behavior demerits (and thus delayed parole) if they refuse
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Jul 17, 2017 20:48
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SKULL.GIF posted:That building new nuclear plants "makes no economic sense" is a massive condemnation of capitalism. inconsistent government regulation (and severe regulatory capture) means that negative externalities are priced into nuclear costs, which isn't the case for other forms of power coal disasters are fun to read about, at least in a "nothing matters" kind of mood, because the response is always so hilariously one-sided in favor of the coal company. if a single puff of radioactive steam escapes a reactor, state authorities evacuate a twenty-mile radius, but a coal company can dump a billion gallons of sludge into the surrounding village and nearby river and then prohibit cleanup workers from wearing protective gear my personal favorite environmental disaster is a UK incident from the 60s where a landslide of coal mining waste buried a school, killing over a hundred children, and then the government made the charity fund for the survivors pay for the cleanup
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Jul 18, 2017 16:29
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docbeard posted:You do realize they won't let you just vote for him twenty million times in every state yourself, right? buttigieg is Actually Good, it's not just because he has a funny name
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Jul 18, 2017 18:02
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UHD posted:still curious how the slavery bit never made it to the news during the election considering that's the sort of thing that could end any politicians career sure didn't sink Bill Clinton or Mike Huckabee
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Jul 18, 2017 22:09
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Frijolero posted:I guess so, I hadn't even thought about the worse implication of her sitting down to write an official memo where she gives herself permission to do dirty rear end poo poo lol the primary function of the US government is to line big businesses' pockets
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Jul 18, 2017 22:11
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zegermans posted:I guess I don't see how donating to a regularly audited charity is as quid no, you see, clearly the US wouldn't have done anything beneficial to longtime ally Saudi Arabia if not for a few million dollars donated to a charity
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Jul 18, 2017 22:25
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NewForumSoftware posted:"few million dollars" might want to fact check your source there tiger sorry, the only conspiracy theories i follow the exact details of are the funny ones
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Jul 19, 2017 00:02
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Scent of Worf posted:lol this is the kind of dude who will be #withher kamala harris edition in 2020 and will be screeching at other goons that kamala is the pragmatic choice and to post their maps!! lol if I'm ever voting for a bad Dem again for prez if we live through four years of pissman, no Republican could possibly be as scary a Palin or Romney presidency would have been nothing compared to this poo poo Serf posted:where's the cutoff for "poor" here Ron Paul and maybe Bernie? the mainstream media and Washington consensus is super into maintaining the American Empire, US dominance on the world stage is taken for granted and to oppose it is to be an I or an anti-American radical
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Jul 19, 2017 17:43
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SKULL.GIF posted:Oh wow this one is good you see it is a well-known fact that people walk everywhere in far-flung southern rural areas, unlike in major cities where people are out of touch with their community because they drive everywhere
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Jul 20, 2017 01:36
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Also McCain is the age that people drop dead why is anyone devastated nobody actually gives a poo poo, but acting like they care lets people publicly demonstrate that politics aren't personal to them and that they're not going to let clashing political views get in the way of treating their opponents as human beings. that's a favorable cultural behavior deep in the Washington Consensus, where Dems and Republicans are co-workers who just oppose each other because it's their jobs
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Jul 20, 2017 03:23
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logikv9 posted:you're always gonna need doctors, can't automate that away anytime soon lawyers have already been automated away any given lawyer used to have a ton of paralegals and clerks and whatnot combing through papers and poo poo all day, that's all been replaced with one intern searching a legal database a couple hours a day. that's why the job prospects for newly graduated lawyers are so sad right now - most of the grunt work has been automated away, so the demand for manpower with legal training is way down the one guy who gets up in front of a jury and tells them to convict the black guy will have a job, but all the people who look at the evidence and search old cases for legal precedents will be replaced by a computer algorithm that just beams potentially relevant facts into that guy's brain also, RIP Dems. "better skills, better jobs, better wages" is going to bomb and the Republicans are going to pummel them over and over until they learn to shut the gently caress up about skills. retraining is garbage for idiots who think the problem is with the workers rather than the employers or the system
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Jul 20, 2017 22:58
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Concerned Citizen posted:retraining is good in the sense that it helps people transition from jobs that won't exist. it is bad in the sense that to work it should 1. not only be free, but actually pay you to participate in the re-training and 2. should guarantee you a job after completion. a job training program that is not economically feasible to join with no promise of a job after is pointless actually retraining is poo poo it's just a lovely consolation prize for someone who would otherwise be completely hosed instead of losing your job and being completely unemployable because your career is gone, you just get to start all over again as an entry-level grunt who's now competing for jobs against freshly minted college grads because your entire education and work experience was invalidated overnight yeah let's take a loving fifty-year-old coal worker, send them to a coding bootcamp for a few months, and then dump him in the job market to compete against twenty-year-olds with more education and more coding experience than them. great idea. problem solved.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:14
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logikv9 posted:why are we retraining coal miners to be coders in the middle of WV, a place where I am nearly certain they don't have internet let alone electricity because retraining into fields involving renewables would involve a sober, realistic look at how much demand there actually is for renewables workers with coding, they can skip that because the popular belief (spurred on by tech giants desperate to saturate the labor pool and capitalists who deliberately encourage the myth of easy well-paying guaranteed jobs) is that there is infinite demand for tech workers outside of the big cities, the job prospects for an entry-level coder are surprisingly bleak. you'll never hear that from anyone with money though, they've gotta maintain the idea that STEM is a golden ticket to prosperity and class mobility
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Jul 20, 2017 23:32
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Concerned Citizen posted:What is the alternative? If the coal mine runs out of coal, and you don't know anything other than mining, how do you support yourself? I'm all ears for a tenable alternative that actually helps people. And obviously there's all sorts of trades to be retrained into - plumbing, welding, electricians, whatever. It's not remotely a panacea but it is at least a path outside of "lol guess you should have read the BLS report on the 20 year outlook for your industry more closely, idiot." socialism, you idiot the core problem is that people's livelihoods depend on the whims of the job market. coal miners are dependent on the coal mining companies to make a living, and as soon as the coal is gone they're no longer useful and are dumped into poverty because theyre only allowed to eat as long as they are useful to capital the solution is not to pay to train them to be useful to a different sector of capital, it's to break that dependence on capital in the first place. maybe a GMI and nationalized healthcare, for starters?
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Jul 20, 2017 23:36
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Concerned Citizen posted:Well any CCC would have a training aspect to it since most modern construction requires skilled labor. not that skilled the real problem is that construction has been automated pretty heavily, drastically reducing the amount of manpower required. back in the 30s, digging a ditch meant putting a bunch of people to work with shovels. today it means one guy driving some heavy machinery. in FDR's time, bulldozers had only just been invented, and more complicated machines like backhoes were still decades away anime was right posted:coding costing a lot of money is the largest stranglehold on rich people's capital. paying engineers is the most expensive part of almost every major company. you pay people in wv who live at home to code, congrats, the wealth of every tech shareholder just went up. it's already like this outside of major cities back down south, the best entry-level programming job I had was $12/hr 1099 work that abruptly vanished without telling anyone or paying out the final paycheck when investor storytime stopped bringing in the money. and that was better than the previous programming jobs the primary motivator behind my move to a big city was that outside of the big tech hubs, there's more experienced programmers than there are programming jobs, so anyone who doesn't already have a few years experience can eat poo poo
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Jul 21, 2017 00:39
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Strange. I thought corporate power surged under the ostensibly regulated capitalist order and we are experiencing a wholesale reversal of those regulations which we are powerless to stop because the left was annihilated and anyone remaining was in the service of capital. Must be mistaken. nah, corporate power actually did decline for a while. problem is that when workers' situations got better, they became less interested in fighting to maintain their power. meanwhile corporations still retained enough power to slowly but surely laid the foundations and groundwork for their resurgence, not just in the political sphere but also extending their influence in education and media, as well as exploiting political strife and petty intrigues in new generations of union leadership the left is dead not because corporations killed it, but because it lost sight of what it believed in and because the workers who formed its lifeblood have lost interest
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Jul 21, 2017 01:01
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:The dominance of the corporation does indeed coincide with this period, however. I disagree with many of his conclusions, but I think Domhoff makes a compelling argument that corporate power was mobilized long before their more overt ascendancy in the 70's and 80's with full cooperation from the government. there was a lot more hard and soft power being exerted against the left when the labor movement started it's just that people were a lot more motivated to fight back against it when they were working 12 hours a day 7 days a week, being paid in company scrip, and would have their pay cut in half if company enforcers found evidence of alcohol or unmarried sex in their apartment unions were fairly toothless by the 60s, faithfully playing along first with the war and then the anti-communist crusades. most of the fire had been taken out of the major organizations, which had either opted for cooperation with employers instead of confrontation or collapsed into infighting and power struggles between internal factions. there hasn't been a real general strike in the US since the 40s man I'm spicy today
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Jul 21, 2017 01:40
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Shear Modulus posted:the broad american left including labor unions, womens' groups, antiwar movements, and racial justice organizations were violently attacked by the cops and feds for decades during the cold war and during WWII and during the roaring 20s and during the red scare in the wake of the Russian Revolution and during WWI and at the turn of the century and in the late 19th century the war between the state and workers started the day after the invention of the steam engine and has been going on ever since, aside from a few brief and short-lived peace treaties intended largely to buy the state a respite when there appears to be a danger of real defeat
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Jul 21, 2017 02:48
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Willa Rogers posted:feinstein's overdue for a pick-off and her primary opponent supports single-payer (as does pelosi's primary opponent). yes, you'd likely be outnumbered (and she's likely to be endorsed by the state party) but there's a good oppo movement in CA that's pissed about rendon shelving single-payer so I say go for it. Feinstein is probably totally safe, unfortunately CA is a big state, which makes it difficult to campaign in, and the jungle primary system (created by ballot initiative, of course) is a tremendous advantage for her zegermans posted:wait has this thread actually rehabilitated insane scam artist Jill Stein? turns out that both the Dems and the GOP were also insane scam artists, so she's in good company
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Jul 21, 2017 17:18
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SKULL.GIF posted:I think it's good to try to primary her regardless, the increased pressure may make her pull a Schumer or a half-Schumer or something she's had several primary challenges none of them were especially credible, though, and now running a primary challenge is more expensive than ever
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Jul 21, 2017 18:04
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ex post facho posted:any polling around a generic DSA vs. generic dem? polling costs money, and dsa doesn't have enough name recognition for "generic dsa" to mean anything to most people yet anyway ask again in 3 years
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Jul 21, 2017 18:13
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Venuz Patrol posted:keith ellison is on twitter explaining that "better skills" represents free access to both education and vocational training and such; he felt that "better education" wouldn't have gotten the point across as well as it would have implied a more limited focus on just the grade school -> college track okay, so it's exactly what we thought it was, except now Ellison is demonstrating that he feels his leadership position makes him responsible for defending this worthless garbage even if it's just straight-up "college is free now, inshallah" it still doesn't belong in the same league as "Better Jobs" and "Better Wages" unless your primary solution to bad jobs that pay lovely is "just go to college you dummy" SKULL.GIF posted:aren't unpaid internships explicitly illegal except in corner cases where you're doing literally no productive work? congressional offices aren't subject to the FLSA or other regular labor laws. they have their own special, slightly different set of labor law that, among other things, allows unpaid workers with no particular restrictions. as a result, it is one hundred percent legal for congressmen to have unpaid interns doing actual work, even though it's illegal for private business. hail satan
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Jul 21, 2017 21:24
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loquacius posted:Like I said earlier, the part of the platform represented by that blurb, as explained by Ellison, is less a short-term Jobs Fix and more a long-term Education Fix. It's not about your job now, it's about a teenager's job in several years. The short-term solution is the other two. several years from now, we're still gonna need janitors and burger-flippers, no matter how many people have college degrees education is good for its own sake, but it has no place in a message to workers, except to trick people into thinking that class mobility exists so they'll dream of escaping the lower classes instead of being mad at how the lower classes are treated
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Jul 21, 2017 21:40
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loquacius posted:It was about vocational training, which specifically does not give more people college degrees but does set them up for good solid well-paid careers as, eg, plumbers or HVAC techs education is important because businesses want the state to take care of training workers for them, and because workers have been led to think that education is the key to class mobility and that little Jimmy can earn twice what his dad did if he just gets the right education. and by extension, any worker that is poorly paid or treated shittily just didn't get the right education to get a good job, so there's no point worrying about them and the only response to lovely jobs should be to expand education so we can say it's people's own fault for having lovely jobs if the Dems had chosen any other order for their new slogan, I'd be willing to cut them some slack. but putting skills first and wages last shows their priorities are still all wrong. it should be the other way around
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Jul 21, 2017 22:07
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loquacius posted:Yeah guys I dunno, "education is just a way to justify paying people less" is too much of a galaxy-brain take for me the only reason anyone gives a crap about education is because they think getting their kids a good education will put their kids in a higher economic class than they were just look at how people poo poo on the majors that aren't regarded as a ticket to high-paying knowledge work, such as art degrees or english degrees obviously, education is good for its own sake, but no politician gives a poo poo about that. the Dems aren't making it the leading item in their "Better Deal" because they believe everyone should be free to learn anything they want. they're absolutely pitching it as a tool to get better-paying jobs, and nothing else
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Jul 22, 2017 02:23
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Oh Snapple! posted:when precisely did dems start framing the left as innately and historically hostile to black people a lot of the moderate economic left was racist...back in the first half of the 20th century when basically every major group and organization was racist. many New Deal programs were essentially whites-only, and a lot of unions were exclusionary of minorities also, the current leftist wave had some early stumbles on messaging in regards to racism, and there are individuals who do try to use socialist rhetoric to argue that racism doesn't exist (mostly young sheltered white people who don't really acknowledge structural racism, have only just discovered socialism, and think they're the first ones to notice the correlation between being discriminated against and being poor) now that a 30s-style economic left is making a comeback, people are combining those things into an attack message of course, the actual socialists of the 30s were generally racially inclusive, and fought against the racism of the moderates. true leftists understand that the fights for racial equality and economic equality are deeply linked loquacius posted:Something I've heard people say a lot is that the only reason the American North was abolitionist was that Northern workers were worried about having to compete with slave labor for wage-slave jobs given working conditions at the time, the wage slavery practiced in the north was probably more profitable than slave labor. with slaves, capital had to pay the a big up-front cost and then provide for the slave's basic needs. meanwhile, actual workers only had to be paid as long as they were productive, and company towns meant that the worker typically ended up with barely more than basic necessities anyway. if they got hurt or sick, there was no sunk cost, so they'd just be fired and replaced that wouldn't have actually ended slavery, though. even if slavery became totally unprofitable for any form of work or business, Southern aristocrats would still keep slaves around as a way to display wealth and status by literally owning another person, as well as to enforce the cultural doctrine of white supremacy. people don't stop hating just because it becomes unprofitable.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:30
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MizPiz posted:And you guys said the Dems don't have their priorities in order. lol the Dems are killing the Iran deal for the sake of showing up Trump by being Tough On Russia
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Jul 23, 2017 05:13
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time to look up the nearest dsa chapter
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Jul 23, 2017 05:20
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this is right up there with "the eye of the needle is actually a gate in Jerusalem, therefore Jesus was just saying the rich had to plan ahead to get into heaven" in terms of blatantly reinterpreting metaphors with obvious anti-wealthy meanings
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Jul 23, 2017 16:02
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rip Democrats this is pathetic it's just slightly different spin and messaging on things that have been in the Dem platform for years, and they're responding to the things people want with the most neoliberal plans possible literally giving businesses tax credits to hire people, jesus christ. and they're going to drive special interests out of power by...regulating mergers more closely? absolutely no one is going to buy this limp-noodle horseshit. hell, I think it's to the right of Hillary's messaging safely sodomized posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/opinion/chuck-schumer-employment-democrats.html never thought I'd see the day that I liked something from Schumer better than something from Pelosi. but although it's wrapped in better messaging, it's still the same garbage policy proposals. thanks for clarifying that the "please please please hire people" tax credit will be a large one, Chuck, you stupid rear end in a top hat do you think the Republicans will remove the presidential term limits by 2024, or will they just skip the middleman and elect Bannon to the presidency?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:11
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Condiv posted:the training for tax cuts is loving trickle-down welfare. it's what reagan would've done if he wanted to pretend to like poor people nah, it's straight up padding the numbers. presumably the tax credits will expire after a certain period, after which the companies will immediately fire the employee and then hire another one so they can get the credit again personally though I think the "we'll regulate mergers better" bit is the worst, though, just because the fact that that's the best they could come up with is so blatantly a concession to business. absolutely no one was complaining about mergers at all during any part of 2016. nobody said "I'm not voting for Democrats because they let Exxon and Mobil merge twenty years ago". the fact that Schumer is suddenly waving it around as some historical injustice is completely out of left field. the only way I can possibly make sense of it is if they invited a bunch of special interests to their strategy meeting and gave them veto power over suggestions, and then the special interests shot down everything that got suggested in the "reducing the power of special interests" category, and this was the only thing the Dems could come up with that didn't anger the lobbyists
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Jul 24, 2017 16:14
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MizPiz posted:How close are we to the point where revolution becomes a serious, genuine option? revolution is always an option I think what you really mean is "when will there any public appetite for revolution?" in which case the answer is "not in the foreseeable future". the days of the labor struggles, when capital was honestly worried about popular revolution, things were really violent. outright shootouts between strikers and strikebreakers/company enforcers/federal troops. assassination attempts on big business CEOs. horse-and-carriage bombs on Wall Street. throwing loving homemade bombs at riot police. meanwhile, so far in the 21st century, political violence mostly consists of beating up immigrants, except for one leftist who shot a congressman in the butt Main Paineframe has issued a correction as of 17:22 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 17:19
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zegermans posted:for reals though I've had a post or two that I deleted halfway through because I was like "uh is this antisemitic?" it depends. do you hate Israel because of a deep-seated hatred for Jews, or do you hate Israel's government because of identifiable government policies that you can point to? you're gonna get called an anti-Semite either way, but that's basically unavoidable - there's always going to be racists that cloak their hatred in stuff like that, and there's always going to be advocates who duck real criticisms by claiming anything negative is just concealed discrimination. suck it up and deal with it. just keep the hyperbole under control and don't jump to conclusions based on ethnicity
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Jul 24, 2017 18:35
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Concerned Citizen posted:"It is no great secret that without work, without education, people lose hope – and when people lose hope bad things happen. The time is long overdue for us to start investing in our young people, to help them get the jobs they need, to help them get the education they need and to help them get the job training they need so that they can be part of the middle class," Schumer said. lol government grants for low-income youth summer jobs that was Obama's "jobs" program they're pitching the previous administration's policies now as part of their "better deal" this is just sad
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Jul 24, 2017 19:48
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