comedyblissoption posted:

are there statistics on how much money people receive from stock buybacks results in plowing that money right back into stocks or other number investments instead of production or consumption

Acquisitions as Corporate Money Hose – J. W. Mason posted:

Recently, though, the Fed has begun reporting more detailed equity-finance flows, which break out the net issue figure into gross issues, repurchases, and retirements by acquisition. And it turns out that while buybacks are substantial, acquisitions are actually a bigger factor in negative net stock issues. Over the past 20 years, gross equity issues have averaged 1.9 percent of GDP, repurchases have averaged 1.7 percent of GDP, and retirements via acquisitions just over 2 percent of GDP. So if we look only at corporations’ transactions in their own stock, it seems that that the stock market still is — barely — a net source of funds. For the corproate sector as a whole, of course, it is still the case that the stock market is, in Jeff Spross’ memorable phrase, a giant money hose to nowhere.

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

austrian public housing is interesting. i wonder if it's in part a noblesse oblige thing since austria had no shortage of wealthy, inherited money

Xaris posted:

well now they elected some right wing fascists because they are mad about brown people coming in and using their public housing

cant wait for it to be defunded and ladder yoinked up

mycomancy posted:

Gods forbid that some people who's culture evolved where there were spices move to Europe and expose the locals to things like flavor.

punk rebel ecks posted:

Are there countries where their version of the Fed is just another government branch? I searched on Google on central banks and didn't find anything that mentioned government ownership.

Jel Shaker posted:

China stops exporting rare earths , USA goes to war in Iran , us military starts confiscating mobile phones to melt them down to make bits for tomahawk missiles , people have to buy new phones ...

Lambert posted:

Blaming others for blowing up your own economy even though you were given billions of Euros certainly is a thing.

sum posted:

Whoever put "cancel all trade with Europe" on Trump's menu to make the other options seem more reasonable must feel stupid as poo poo now

Stereotype posted:

if the CDC is right that means like 2M dead.

normally around 2.8M people die in the us every year, so it’s almost doubling it. it would cause the population to decline.

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Gangtag please

Polo-Rican posted:

Mrs. Dash posted:

Gonna laugh my way to the Chinese language classes if this thing is what triggers China's undisputed ascension into role of the world's primary superpower as it seeds its influence across the globe with goodwill missions and business deals while the US still trying to bake cans of beans in the flames of its economy and travel banning random nations Trump doesn't like.

baw posted:

on the other hand, millions of muslims in concentration camps

CodeJanitor posted:

lol as if any of the homes that will flood the market after boomer death wont be snatched up 1 millisecond later by corporations to keep the prices proped up
the rest of us are gonna be sleeping in an alleyway in a few months

Xeom posted:

So are we essentially locked in for hyper inflation now?

Horseshoe theory posted:

"Chucking money into the black hole isn't working! What do we do?! I know, let's chuck some more!"

uncurable mlady posted:

i mean my non-expert take is that '08 was basically "wow, we invented money out of thin air based off housing, whoops none of that poo poo is worth anything at all, now we have no money" and this is "oh, right, people cant buy poo poo and the economy cant function ngrmly when half the world is quarantined". as long as people don't get turbofucked by losing their job and the economy doesn't completely collapse, things could return to normal quickly...

ed: that said this doesn't really help all the traditional businesses that are dying because they've done absolutely stupid poo poo, we'll see what happens there.

""In a Blast From a Financial Crisis Past, Synthetic CDOs Are Back - WSJ" posted:

Market for collateralized debt obligations is on the rise again after years on the decline


By Christopher Whittall and Mike Bird
Aug. 28, 2017 5:30 am ET

Bakanogami posted:

It's a tragedy that people will entirely blame this depression on the virus and the idea that the market was massively overinflated from years of QE and buybacks and ready to collapse at the drop of a hat will be laughed off as a fringe theory.

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

so at what point does printing a third of the global GDP and handing it out actually lead to hyperinflation

zegermans posted:

Like, we know where the richest people in the world live

haha just kidding

unless?

Epic High Five posted:

Not sure, I'm a marxist not an economist. Stuff like viewing a phone as a thousand dollar decision when in fact it is more or less required to function in society and it's not 1000 bucks but rather 30 monthly payments tells me that whatever analysis is being used is probably too high a level to really be able to do much good or help people in this moment. Only economists think like they think the whole world does, there's actually scientific proof of this in behavioral studies

I'd be interested in hearing her theory as to why nothing collapsed when everybody was working but the structure of civilization was crumbling as the rich cemented their total ownership of all things and the entire engine of government was shifted to serve them exclusively, but a mere week of labor staying home and demand collapsing due to quarantines has half the country quoting Lenin and investors calling in to CNBC from their doomsday bunkers to ramble about how capitalism is dead

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

even lindsey isnt following this

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1242120724380372994

GOP isnt going to want to kill off their voters

GOP ghoul posted:

..and every moment of gut-wrenching medical chaos being played out in our living rooms, on TV, on social media..

Hellblazer187 posted:

Obama probably would handle the virus response itself marginally better. Like declaring a state of emergency a few days earlier than Trump did, not pretending it was a hoax for a week while infected numbers doubled. But in terms of economic recovery from this I really have no faith Obama would do any better at all.

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

were still in a weird calm before the storm when it actually comes to this disease. markets have a lot of insane exuberance from the promises of Opening Up By Easter and the bailout, so it might take a week or two for number to get dragged back down to hell by reality of Great Depression 2.0

after the wall street crash in 1929, the market gradually made up 50% of its losses for the next few months, until it ended up going down over the next few years to less than 20% of its height

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

possible but at that point the market is entirely fictional and doesnt really matter irt the wider economy.

meanolmrcloud posted:

I don’t doubt there will be outrageous amount of death and infected people, but it doesn’t seem like there is the will to actually test as aggressively as needed to get the full scope. that, plus the naked will to just lie about the numbers means this will be made out to be underwhelming, and not really a huge disruption. and even though millions will be suffering, there won’t be any actual change, just like there were millions suffering for the past few decades with nothing done.

the inertia to keep things going as normal can just be bought and the bad things like 100k dead and financial ruin papered over, just like always.

PostNouveau posted:

We've reached a new stage of capitalism where it's more profitable to spend all your money on stock buybacks, then beg for a bailout at the first sign of trouble. May as well not do any core business-y things.

Dustcat posted:

germany truly is an alien land

try to imagine steve mnuchin being so overcome by guilt and empathy for the suffering of the american people that he would kill himself lol

Mr.Radar posted:

https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1244304617485279233

Mercrom posted:

i dont know much about number in general but the problem with this is that the government still absorbed all the risk right?

Rutibex posted:

how will deflation happen with money printers going at full brrrrr?

Cpt_Obvious posted:

CNBC: Goldman Sachs is famous for its capabilities in managing risks.

You can't make this poo poo up.

Charlz Guybon posted:

30% WTF? Is that really possible?

FAUXTON posted:

mises.org

Pick posted:

the slums of India don't rebel win and get in the news

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

collapse of manufacturing and agriculture (ie actually producing material things) entirely replaced with Finance and Business Services (ie fictitious capital)

and now the house of cards is blown over

Flavahbeast posted:

how is it 'safe but ineffective' if 25% of patients experience those effects?

oxsnard posted:

The good news is that if MMT is correct, this depression will likely be fairly short as they will just keep on printing money. If we get the sort of hyperinflation predicted by austrian types, it's the end of society as we know it (lol)

uncop posted:

Yeah when I speak of something like "unfortunate keynesian assumptions" in MMT, on the top of the list is the assumption that inflation simply doesn't accelerate before full utilization of available labor power. Milton Friedman politically wrecked that assumption when he developed the idea that for that assumption to be true but the 70's stagflation event to also be real, there must be lots of people who only pretend to be available for the labor market. It's neokeynesian poison now, and there's a reason you don't hear MMT people talk about the 70's much.

uncop posted:

To be fair, less keynesian MMTers like Bill Mitchell don't really act as if that assumption was true and are clear that full employment would be theoretically made possible through an employment buffer stock that's built to be an alternative to the friedmanite unemployment buffer stock: a deliberately worse alternative to market employment that people would seek to immediately escape into the arms of a regular capitalist exploiter once there are jobs available on the market. Mitchell paints it as leftist mainly on the social inclusion aspect of having work to do and the idea of pushing market employment to be better by raising the floor of job alternatives.

The logical end result of a genuinely leftist job guarantee is that as raising the floor makes more and more private industry unprofitable the state has to do the opposite of declaring a crisis and just drive all the failing private enterprise to bankruptcy and replace that with its own. It must declare capital controls to prevent capital from escaping the profit squeeze, let it be strangled to death, and buy their stuff in the fire sales that they are forced into. There will never be anyone you could vote in who would actually do it. Leftist MMT-informed policy is too left for even MMTers to support, because they want MMT-informed policy to be an alternative to intense class struggle, not a slow-burn method to liquidate the bourgeoisie with all the political ugliness that entails. But the rightist alternative would just be to make the state the new peddler of superexploitative jobs, a glorified work-for-benefits scheme.

uncop posted:

Yeah, but stuff like droughts, war and so on that may limit expansion of production even while there's labor market slack are externalities from the viewpoint of the theory. I'm not going for a cheap strawman, just a simplified explanation of why MMTers consider basically any stable country able to reach full employment without having prohibitive inflation trouble. For MMTers, e.g. India could reach and stay at full employment without big trouble if it made that a serious policy goal.

uncop posted:

The employment buffer stock is really one of the possible methods of setting a minimum wage (along with the state minimum wage and tripartite corporatism). What really counts isn't the minimum wage though, but how labor markets in general react to a tightening of supply. Full employment by any means at all is destructive to capitalism because workers enjoy meaningful negotiation power.

Minimum wages in themselves do nothing to advance full employment, it goes more the other way, that supply-constrained labor markets are what's needed to raise minimum wages. 15$ minimum wage in itself is nothing, it would not even claw back the proportional loss in the minimum wage level since the 70's. It needs to keep rising (along with wages in general) after that initial jump, and there can't be big slumlord gig work employers that are exempt from it.

The rate of wage increase during the "golden age of capitalism" wasn't sustainable then, and would be even less so now. The only way for the employment buffer stock to be sustainable would be for it to be so intolerable that it drives people into the labor market rather than pulling them out of it.

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

it doesnt make me respect him more but it does make it clear hes not stupid, at least

FizFashizzle posted:

Saudi Arabia likely has enough liquidity reserves to survive this, and at the end will likely come out stronger.

This is going to cripple the oil industry in the United States. Thing in Russia and Venezuela are going to get....interesting.

also lmao shipping companies