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Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles

Popoto posted:

Tried a game with Austria. It seems you now get a permanent(!) malus to your relations with the electors if you don't vote with the majority in the Diet? I guess that means if you want to be emperor you have no choice but to vote for whatever the AI picked in majority when there is an imperial incident? I hosed a game bad by not noticing that earlier. Annoying considering I had just got done getting Milan, Bohemia and Hungary in a PU.

In my current game as Austria, it seems like the modifier lasts only until the next incident, rather than stacking. I successfully reigned in the Italian princes by just allying them all for a few months before cancelling right after firing the decision (had like eight alliances for a month or two), then when the incident for the pope joining the empire popped, I went from having a -25 from going against them to a +10 from voting with them.

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Apr 19, 2007

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canepazzo posted:

One of the Knights mission has a prerequisite of "Donate to the curia at least 5 ducats". I remember seeing the option at some point in my Papal run but never in this Knights game (and I'm in 1750 or so), did I disable it by some kind of decision/govt. reform? I've been papal controller but still no option, so not that either.

It's a deadend mission that gives some MP and papal influence, so no big deal, but was curious what I missed.

Isn’t it just the button to buy indulgence on the left of the Curia screen?

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Apr 19, 2007

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I thought you couldn't refund DLC. Has that changed recently?

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Apr 19, 2007

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Qubee posted:

I want to do some nation-specific missions in the mission tab, but all of my Castille missions are unavailable right now as they require things I don't have. I can't even find basic missions like "take this bordering land", it's all stuff that I can only start doing a hundred years from now. Is this working as intended?

The missions are fixed for each nation, not dynamic in any way, and for major nations their missions generally reflect their historic expansion or expansion goals throughout the entirety of the period. If you want to take some bordering land, you don't need a mission to do that, you can build a spy network through the diplomacy menus, and then fabricate claims on provinces in the province screen, which you can use as a casus belli to declare war on your target.

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Apr 19, 2007

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Deltasquid posted:

The original EU3 map was somehow even worse lol

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Apr 19, 2007

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Shawon Dunston posted:

That's gotta be like a beta screenshot or something right? I know I didn't start playing until after Napoleon's Ambition came out but come on, there's no way that was EU3 1.0.

Edit: Lmao I'm the yin-yang symbol for what I assume is stability.

In fairness, yes, I think this is a pre-release screenshot (basedon the menu in the bottom right being missing), but it is one of the ones used on the store page for EU3 complete, so clearly they considered it representative! Here's another that looks closer to how I remember it from around release:

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Apr 19, 2007

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Poil posted:

A feature that sometimes something doesn't work the way it's supposed to?

I think that was a bermuda triangle joke.

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Apr 19, 2007

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On the topic of Russia, does anyone else find that it always takes an insanely long time to form in their games? I feel like every time I play EU4, Muscovy allies with Ryazan and remains faithful to that alliance for centuries, while never bothering to take Smolensk from Poland-Lithuania.

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Apr 19, 2007

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Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Same but the iberians steamrolling the maghreb

Also I wouldn’t mind some events/missions for certain annexations: ottomans/mamluks, one sheep absorbing the other, Muscovy/Novgorod, the HYW being able to end in one war instead of two

A spectre is haunting Europe, the spectre of Europa Universalis 2

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Apr 19, 2007

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TMMadman posted:

When Leviathan gets released, the thread title should be EU4: Leviathan: It's like Leviathan in Stellaris, but completely different.

I dunno, I'd be inclined to go with EU4: Leviathan - Exactly the same as Stellaris: Leviathans

alternatively,

Europa Universalis 4: Leviathan - Stellaris meets Calvin and Hobbes

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Apr 19, 2007

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THE BAR posted:

His point still stands.

Not really. The objection is the Catholic defender of the faith being able to join the protestant league, that it's France in this particular case is immaterial to that. The Defender of the Faith title is pretty much entirely a gameplay conceit, not actual history (yes, the title existed, but it had essentially nothing in common with how it works in game).

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Apr 19, 2007

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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:



So they made a new formula for calculating reform progress. See if you can spot what's wrong with it!

It's like there's a new thing broken wherever you look this patch.

Holy poo poo, I had to actually boot the game up just to confirm what my maths was telling me. This is nuts, it really does feel like old paradox back again, except with the comic ineptitude of an indie developer replaced with the soul sucking indifference of a corporate machine.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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Am I right in remembering that Paradox announced their new studio in Barcelona on like the very next day after agreeing a collective bargaining agreement with their Swedish employees?

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Apr 19, 2007

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Mans posted:

is meiou the mod with the never ending "PIRATES!" pop up?

That was Magna Mundi for EU3.

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Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
I’m currently having a blast playing as the train goblins, this is the most fun I’ve had with EU4 in a long time. I started out in Anbennar as one of the dwarf expeditions but the minute I bumped into the Victoria fans I pretty much had to abandon that run and restart as them. I think I got quite lucky, I hear it’s a difficult start but I haven’t had too much trouble and seem to have hit a tipping point where my army outclasses most things I fight.

The entirety of the southern continent seemed to have a crusade to kill my harpy friends (pretty much everyone was joined in against us) and they just rolled over the Harpies with no difficulty at all, but I was able to park my army in the fortified hold adjacent to the Harpies’ lake and just grind down everything they threw at me until ticking warscore from battles overcame the occupations, it felt great.

Are ogres locked in as persecuted? I took some provinces in the vale that have ogres in them, but they’re listed as oppressed and if I go to the racial tolerance decision they don’t appear as an option.

I’m thinking about my next run doing colonisation, I’m trying to avoid spoilers on the big secret, but when I do, is there any particular place I need to go to find it (e.g. the centre of the big circle or something), or is it just a matter of having colonies over there and the event fires eventually?

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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Thanks! I didn't realise you could scroll down the options in that event! I've designated them as a focus, hopefully that makes the generic events fire more frequently?

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Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
Funnily enough the Centaurs have absolutely crushed the ogres but are peacefully coexisting with each other so that's out. It looks like if I convert some of my provinces in the vale to Ogre I'll have enough to accept them, so that sounds like the plan!

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
My run as the Railskulkers is now at the point where I can form the Allclan and I feel I'm at a bit of a crossroads. Crossrails? I saved and formed the clan so I could see the mission tree and it's, uh, a little ominous with all those "this is a great idea" lines. I think I saw earlier in the thread that the disaster for them is currently disabled?

It feels like a bit of tonal whiplash, the transition. I guess with the other clans it might fit well but the Railskulker mission tree feels fairly "serious" for want of a better word and then the Allclan has a whole bunch of very hyperbolic language and such like we've swapped over to comedy goblins. I was rather enjoying my trainspotting radical liberals so I don't know how to feel.

There's a bunch of ravelian lodges in my territory, so I hope there's an option to swap over to that when the time comes. Is that going to break anything for the Allclan missions, so far as anyone knows?

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Apr 19, 2007

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I really wish force converting a country didn’t cost exactly the same as vassalising/annexing them. It feels so silly that these cost the exact same given how one is much more beneficial to the player most of the time. Even if it capped out at 100% so that it was always an option that would be better; it feels very silly that we had this massive period called the wars of religion when half the participants would probably have been totally ineligible for forced conversion due to their sheer size.

I’ve been pushing Ravelianism pretty hard in my Railskulker game but it’s driving me up the wall invading a place to convert it and then it’s like 107% warscore to convert. I don’t even want to go on some mad conquest spree, but I’m forced to cause a client state is the only way to reliably get someone of the right religion!

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Apr 19, 2007

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Rynoto posted:

So just making sure, but you know you can spread Ravelianism through trade, yeah? As long as you're 50% or more trade power in the node you can convert the entire thing.

Yeah, I'm in the Serpentspine, so while I'm using that to convert the entirety of my own provinces, it's less feasible for me to do in Escann since those nodes are all upstream from me and would likely require me to conquer a whole bunch of the region for the trade power. The trade spread doesn't work on the Bulwari religion either and Jaddari has helpfully converted most of the centaurs to the Jadd, leaving only Rahen as a place that might work for converting other nations, sadly.

As is I'm just creating client states and having them do the work for me, it just feels faintly a little ridiculous that enemy nations are more willing to give me 90% of their country in a peace treaty than they are to just, I dunno, abdicate in favour of a relative of the right religion.

Like, this is more of a general EU4 moan than an Anbennar one--imagine if France had gone to war with England with the explicit goal of restoring Catholicism and won that war very convincingly, should they get to the peace table and find that restoring catholicism is impossible in England, but hey, they're willing to give up the south of the country for peace instead? Such is the world where force conversion costs the same as annexation. Make the cost cap out at 100%, I say.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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Starting a run as Corintar, was intending to reform Castanor, but based on the whopping great mission tree I got when settling down into a real country it looks like it's pretty much got its own full game of content. I'm guessing I'll have my hands full forever, so is there any particular point in keeping the patricians about?

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Apr 19, 2007

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Davincie posted:

i finished the corintar mission tree around the time you can even start to form castanor so i would say so

its nigh impossible to finish the castanor mission tree before 1821 anyway, its huge

Sounds good, I’ll give it a go then!

It was pretty satisfying to hit the “real country” threshold first and then just gobble up all the orcs and goblins in east castanor. Managed to essentially encircle the counts, dwarves and brave brothers in the process, bottling them up. Pushing out to take the adventurers in the west though feels like it’s going to be a challenge to not end up getting coalitioned, but we’ll see how it goes. My frostmaw allies seem functionally useless, trapped in a debt spiral, and my other allies now are my next meals. Maybe Gawed needs a friend?

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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Maybe I'm also a massive disaster masochist but in my Zelezklan game the most enjoyable part was my knock-down drag out fight against the Obsidian Legion. The goblin disaster was pretty weak (it came late and wasn't much of a challenge against a bunch of full combat width armies) and the Sepent's Rot was just a matter of throwing money at it untilit went away, which wasn't much of a problem when I had the entirety of the Serpentspine west of the Tree of Stone.

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Apr 19, 2007

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Should the crimson deluge be firing right away after Corinite is enabled? As far as I can tell it's supposed to start immediately based on the triggers in the event, but I've had corinite enabled for a few years now and nothing.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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uPen posted:

The events for Black Demense are animated. How the gently caress.

It really is one of the coolest surprises in the mod imo, really feels like "oh poo poo, this is both epic and wrong"

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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My biggest wish for EU5 would be to have an option to bring back EU2-style pausing. Back in EU2 if you had messages set to pause when they appeared, the game was paused as long as that message was on screen, and the only way to unpause was to dismiss the message.

In current EU, messages and events that pause, well, they pause, but hitting pause again resumes the game, including for events. You'd think after like a decade I'd have gotten used to this, but no, every time I play a modern paradox game I end up loving it up and seeing an event pop up, reflexively hitting pause because I want to read it, which unpauses the game, and then while I'm reading some new event pops up, and so I panic because the game is unpaused, so I hit pause, which unpauses the game, and then another message pops up, and I just flail that pause button like an idiot trying to make the game just stop.

Please devs, please, a toggle in the settings for idiots like me, something like "prevent unpausing during pending events and messages".

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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Not sure if there's other ways to do this, but apparently if you claim the mandate of heaven as Japan and then resolve the Ikko-Ikki incident in favour of the monks, you can transition to a republic and keep the Mandate of Heaven.

It's buggy, you are fixed to a meritocracy of 0. Seems like an oversight with the mission tree vs Shinto incidents.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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Horsebanger posted:

so how is the new expansion?

The mechanics seem pretty solid and fun, but it's got some of the usual oversights that make you wonder if they actually playtested things. The new Japan tree is cool but some of Japan's mechanics break the functionality of the Mandate of Heaven, which is dumb given that the mission tree more or less expects you to take China. The Ottoman Eyalets let you expand quickly as the Ottomans but since you can't core through them and in some cases can't call them to war, you can find youself unable to conquer provinces on the other side of your Eyalet even when they're required for missions. Angevin England has some weird traps, if you luck into the burgundian succession, France gets Nevers as a vassal, and you then need to own Nevers to complete a mission which fucks you over. Unusually for a modern mission tree, some of the conquest missions it gives you don't come with claims, which is not disastrous but just plain odd.

The mission trees more generally have a kind of weird...orientalism about them too imo. Or maybe just that they're a hard pivot back to "pop history" when throughout its history EU4 has been gradually moving away from that. I've been checked out of Earth EU4 for the last few expansions due to Anbennar so I don't know if the other recent expansions had this problem. Russia has unique mechanics for westernising, the Ottomans have to deal with "decadance", both concepts previously thrown out of paradox games for being ahistorical oversimplifications. Japan's mission tree and flavour events give the impression that not much research was done on sengoku era Japan--events are written from a post-Meiji POV, deifying the emperor when that wasn't really accurate to the history, and at least one of the flavour events literally plagiarised text from the wikipedia article on the subject. England also had their historical coat of arms removed so it could be transferred to an ahistorical nonsense country with a name that some lady just invented in the 19th century.

Mind you that ahistorical nonsense country has a really fun mission tree and may have just the flat out best map colour of any formable nation in the game so overall despite all those misgivings I've really enjoyed the expansion and consider it well worth it.

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Apr 19, 2007

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CommonShore posted:

I'm not a heraldry guy, I've seen people state that England's new flag is actually the flag of the Angevin kings, so they got it rear end backward.

Originally in the dev diaries it was the other way around and "correct", but the problem is that the Angevin Empire wasn't like, ever an actual thing. It's a weird catch-22 situation where if you make Angevin use the three lions, uniting with France (including merging into French culture!) would remove the French elements from your flag and give you a purely English flag, which is dumb, especially when the whole reason the English arms have the fleur de lys on them is because the English kings are claiming the French throne.

On the other hand, if you decide that Frengland needs to visually display its anglo-french fusion on its flag, your only real options for differentiating historical England are the three lions on their own or the cross of St George, the former of which is just flat out wrong for the period, and the latter of which you can't use because it's already the flag of like three other European nations.

I'm not really sure what the solution is, but I don't particularly like this one. I think I'd prefer they just make up some fictional flag for Angevin, maybe using that snazzy purple they get when you form them.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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I wonder what the point is in having the sea lanes set up in that brickwork pattern is, as opposed to it just being a single-width chain of individual provinces. Part of me wants to imagine that the way they'll implement it being faster in one direction than another is by letting you sail in a straight line in one direction but forcing you to tack into the wind by zig-zagging if you try to sail in the opposite direction.. That feels kinda crazy but I want it to be true.

God just the presence of passageways and sea lanes already has me super hyped for this. If currents/winds affect colony distance it could be set up so that North America isn't really in colonial range of Europe until around 1600. We should actually see semi-historical colonisation patterns!

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Apr 19, 2007

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Wafflecopper posted:

They’re really only an issue if you’re playing dwarfs or hobgoblins. Even the dwarf ones aren’t that bad once you know what to expect and how to avoid obsidian legion and game hoardcurse. There are others but those are the only really nasty ones I can think of. Most tags in fantasy Europe don’t have any at all

I think describing it as being a mostly Dwarf and Hobgoblin problem undersells it a tad, the Serpentspine disasters are also an issue if you play goblins or black orcs, Rahen has that disaster where the temples explode (albeit that one is my favourite cause you have to deal with an elephant ghost who fucks up you country by just being a 24-hour party pachyderm), and honestly I’d say the current worst disaster in the game (at least that I’ve played) if you’re not fully prepared for it is the one that the not-Manchu get when you form Daxugo. That’s just brutally, painfully difficult, like the hoardcurse goblintide and serpent’s rot hitting you all at once.

But yeah you mostly avoid the disasters if you stick to Cannor, that’s certainly true. Though when they get around to fully redoing the Cannor content I don’t expect that to persist.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
I wonder if it would make sense in the early game to have essentially two cultures, court culture and realm culture, and on monarch death (or Stability drop below 0?) any vassal or directly controlled province not part of either becomes an "unruly vassal", paying no income or troop support until "reined in", and any unruly vassals become independent on monarch death.

So for England, which is English realm culture and French Court culture, their French and English holdings are secure, but their Irish provinces and vassals begin the two-step process of breaking away any time the king dies, and then you've got a ticking time bomb to get those vassals reined in again before your new ruler dies. This way it's not completely out of your control as a player, since you get time to halt the slide into independence.

I'm imagining an "unruly vassal" as more or less like an independent state except that you get no AE from reining them in and making them a full vassal again. Maybe some other modifications.

Then you could give the HRE some mechanics around this. Perhaps in the HRE your realm and court culture vassals become unruly too, but unruly vassals can't become fully independent. Add some reforms that allow you to collect some taxation from unruly vassals (ala the Reichspfennig) and make essentially the entire HRE unruly and you have I think a good working model for the HRE in history--notionally one realm but in practice internally divided and disorganised. You could then represent the Shadow Kingdom stuff by letting Italian culture vassals become fully independent, so you need to get them reined in quick or they'll slide out of the HRE, similar to how it works now but with a more universal game mechanic backing it up.

And then as time progresses and your administrative capacity grows you can exert steadily greater control to the point where automatic independence ceases, then automatic unruly vassalship ceases, and finally you can directly hold foreign culture provinces indefinitely.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

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I find that every time I play in Europe these days I end up butting up against the HRE's religion mechanics and desperately wishing they'd been designed differently.

I feel like the empire should start out in religious peace, not having Catholic be the official religion. Then there could be a series of imperial incidents relating to religion that culminate in the leagues being enabled in the age of absolutism, so that the league war actually starts roughly on cue instead of a century early.

Like, it's dumb that if the electors end up majority protestant they literally cannot elect a protestant emperor pre-war even though fear of that the exact thing was one of the primary causes of the Thirty Years War. It's also dumb that protestant victory also forbids reformed emperors and electors unless an incident about it passes, even though, again, one of the sparks that caused the thirty years war was the Calvinist elector palatine attempting to usurp the throne of Bohemia and depose Austria as Emperor.

Hopefully EU5 has a better system!

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Apr 19, 2007

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Private Speech posted:

To be fair the Bohemians didn't exactly mind, it was less usurpation and more rebellion against the Catholic Austria with him being a convenient choice which led to the war. I don't think there was a realistic prospect of him becoming the Emperor without a war (or that there was a significant distinction between him and the other protestants at the time).

Fair on the first part and true on the second, but that only further underscores how weird it is that by default the Lutherans stab any Calvinist allies in the back any time the protestants win the war, and if they are made to go back on that decision the only other possible outcomes are religious peace (letting the catholics back in) or making reformed official (banning Lutheranism).

Do any of the big modpacks do anything with these mechanics to make them fit history a little better (later leagues, possible protestant emperors pre-war)? I tend to play pretty vanilla when I'm not playing Anbennar, but I'm considering trying to mod in some changes myself if there's not already something available.

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Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles

CommonShore posted:

The thing is that the religious wars in the game chronologically map onto the 16th century wars between the Catholic League and the Schmalkaldic League and the timing of the council of Trent, but then they smoosh some 30yw stuff into it too.

To be sure, there were religious conflicts in the HRE that overlap with the period in which the league war happens in game, but its not just a matter of some 30 years war stuff getting smooshed in, the actual mechanics are explicitly intended to model the thirty years war, so it's smooshing the entirety of the 30 years war in.


KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

Dei Gratia was the big Reformation/30YW rework in the ye olde EU3 days and what's left of it is part of M&T now, IIRC. But there's probably a whole mess of HRE stuff layered on top of it. As well as the regular M&T stuff, of course.

Thanks! I'll give it a look, see how they handled it.

If I did make a mod for it myself, I'm thinking the sequence should go something like this:
1. The HRE starts in a state of religious peace. Possibly double the heretic prince IA penalty to compensate since peace halves it.
2. About 10 years after the event "The Reformation Branches Out", if an elector or the emperor is not Catholic, a new imperial incident, The Peace of Augsburg fires. It has three choices:
  • "Enforce the Emperor's Faith" which makes the Emperor's faith the faith of the empire and enables the religious leagues; [So basically current EU4, with the exception that the Emperor can be leading the protestants]
  • "Cuius regio, eius religio" which maintains religious peace, gives members a bonus to missionary strength (which will help protestants more than catholics due to religious zeal and centres of reformation), the emperor can enforce religious unity on converting theocracies under ecclesiastical reservation. [Historical]
  • "Mandate religious freedom" which gives members a significant penalty to missionary strength, reduces relations with all electors who haven't taken humanist or innovative ideas, triggers an event sequence where the pope tries to gather a coalition against you and declare war to enforce catholicism. [Ahistorical, probably for players only unless the emperor has humanist ideas]
3. If the empire has no official faith, set a flag for the emperor's faith at the time of the Peace of Augsburg. If an emperor of another religion is elected, an event fires which enables the religious leagues (because it's clear the balance of power has been upset).
4. After 1600, if the religious leagues have not been enabled, an imperial incident with a MTTH of about 20 years, "Rising Religious Tensions" can fire, halved if the emperor or any elector is a Zealot, again, two choices this time:
  • "Enforce religious unity" makes the Emperor's faith the faith of the empire and enables the religious leagues. [Historical 30 years war]
  • "Curtail the extremists" similar to the Shadow Kingdom incident, this gives the Emperor a timer, 10 years to attempt to defuse the religious tensions--they get a new diplomatic interaction, "enforce religious peace", and must convince 4 electors and any other HRE member above a certain size to agree to the Peace of Augsburg. If they succeed and the peace was "Cuius regio, eius religio" missionary strength bonus is doubled for all members and the heretic prince modifier on Imperial Authority is halved. If the peace was for religious freedom, all members get religious unity bonuses and an even more significant penalty to missionary strength, but the heretic prince modifier on Imperial Authority is removed altogether.

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Apr 19, 2007

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Groke posted:

Also, just verified this as working via console: If you adopt the Aztec mission tree, and then form a tag with its own mission tree, you keep BOTH.

Possible new Three Mountains cheese:

Bugger off to the New World ASAP, kill Mexico, flip Nahuatl, take the missions. Eat all the colonies, etc. Maybe flip Hindu at some point for the CCR etc. -- as a New World pagan tag you can do this by decision if you own a single Hindu province, yes? Maybe take the Mandate of Heaven, since you are pagan. Then establish Sunset Colonies everywhere and feed most of the old world to them.

Optionally, form Japan in the sequence somewhere (yes you DO get the whole Japan mission tree AND the Mandate missions while still keeping all the Aztec ones); unless they've fixed it since 1.36 Japan also has a mission that lets you take the Mandate mid-war regardless of your religion and at no war score cost (all you have to do is destroy Korea first which shouldn't be much of a problem if you own the New World) so you can go Hindu first instead of waiting. Although this would necessitate a true one-tag so no sunset colonies. If you want to be completely ridiculous, form Alaska before Japan and keep Alaskan ideas (Hindu Alaska EoC with Admin ideas would get like 85% CCR).

Is there a reason to flip Hindu as opposed to Mayan? IIRC Mayan gets 20% CCR while Hindu only gets 10%.

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Apr 19, 2007

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Groke posted:

It's way easier to do in most situations. And you actually do get 20% with the upgraded monument, as well as a hefty lower autonomy in territories from another monument. If you are for example going for a Hindu EOC or Hindu Mughals strategy, then both of those monuments are either in your early expansion path, or quite close to it, anyway. And with the rest of the Hindu monuments you get a bunch more nice bonuses as well.

Fair point, forgot about the Harmandir Sahib's authority effect. Though I was meaning more in the specific situation of "a three mountains run where you bugger off to the New World ASAP", going Mayan is pretty easy to do there.

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