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(Thread IKs: Josherino)
 
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Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

You read like a bad ad copy and the fact that you don't realize that is a red flag bigger than anything T-man has ever shown.

You stupid dickhead, if you weren't so involved in the story you're telling yourself about how impossible getting help is maybe you'd get some. Stop presuming people are giving you "empty platitudes" or at the very least pretend to be decent enough to just ignore them if you think it's worthless.

Your brain is garbage, pay someone to hold onto your garbage thoughts for an hour a week. No therapist is going to do the work for you and your claim that doctors just throw their hands up and say "well your big genius brain is impossible to decipher" is total bullshit.

Or, you know, keep doomblogging in the mental health thread.

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Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

indigi posted:

mental illness is the same as any other disease. there are kinds that can’t be cured or treated, and no amount of “help” can change that. it’s silly and, in my opinion, insulting to pretend otherwise and to fail to acknowledge this reality

Do you think that it's more likely that dude is impeding his own ability to seek treatment, or that he has a special magic brain that doctors and therapists simply can't understand?

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

It's not that my mental state is impossible to decipher, it's that my mental health is intertwined with physical health issues, economic reality and scarcity of healthcare resources where helping me would just as likely be throwing resources that could help someone else into a hole where they do precisely nothing the next time my health collapses. My coping methods have been professionally assessed, and the doctors telling me any help probably wouldn't do anything isn't bullshit. If they had infinite resources, we'd have a situation unrelated to the current reality.

But I do love you demonstrating how this is turned into a personal moral fault of mine as I bring it up, so genuinely, thank you. You perfectly demonstrate why people don't speak up about their illness.

"Any help for me would be a waste, other people need it, I'm not worth it, I'll always be bad and it's not a good idea to change."

Why not ignore people trying to help you then? You're reacting this way to people earnestly telling you that healing is possible because you DO understand that you can, but you don't feel like you can make it. That's why you're pity party-ing in the mental health thread. The ironic thing is that you're basically one lie away from actually getting help, it's literally the poo poo thehandtruck and I are saying, but because it goes so counter to this intrinsic feeling that you aren't worth it that you reject it out of hand. I don't think you doing that is a moral failing, it's a symptom of your mental illness. The reason you're a stupid piece of poo poo is that you tell people that are literally only saying nice things to you that their messages read like ad copy and are empty platitudes. That's what makes you a lovely rear end in a top hat. Don't respond like that. Say "thank you" or ignore it.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
You guys are right therapy is a huge waste of time, my big genius brain is impossible to heal and I'm going to be a broken boy forever. Thanks for pushing me to this realization.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

You're not about to take that away from me, shitlord.

Then they all clapped!

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
You guys are doing a performative pity party for each other to support the grand cause of giving up on treatment. That's its own thing but in the process you're insulting people that are responding in good faith, which is why I feel good about yelling at endlessmonotony.

e: I'd like to state again that the annoying poo poo I started replying to this thread for was thehandtruck saying 'everyone deserves healing' and endlessmonotony then piping up to say 'actually no, because everyone can't necessarily be healed because the world isn't perfect'. It's logically incongruent, cruel, and self-disqualifying from care.

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 08:56 on Dec 4, 2020

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

The problem there being that I do seek help, and so has T-man.

I start seeking help again every time something new comes up just in case it might be the warning about a future collapse I really could use knowing right the hell now.

I object to the idea that I "deserve" things I'm not getting and to the idea that there's always something you can do and that you need to constantly do more or you're a Bad Disabled Person.

They may respond in good faith, but they're also being incredibly tone deaf.

You are running from the pain of knowing that you may never get something you deserve. Dealing with that is healing. Sorry it hurts.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
"You deserve to be happy"

"Actually, NO you ableist gently caress!"

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Look at how much work you two are putting into defeating the idea of "You deserve to be happy."

"he must be an alt"
"yes yes quite suspicious timing"
"there's no reason for him to say those things if he WASNT a troll"
"no no not at all"

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

So either you're an rear end in a top hat looking for someone to pick on, or you got hit real personally by my objections to toxic positivity, and either way you've got some pretty severe issues.

Yes I was absolutely disgusted by the response you gave to someone offering valid, good faith words to another poster. After you mischaracterized thehandtruck's message as "everyone can be happy" instead of "everyone deserves happiness" you spent 8 paragraphs explaining why healing is impossible for you. You realize you're leaving those words for everyone reading this thread right? I don't care if you think it's "toxic positivity" or whatever, it was lovely to do and yes I'm going to confront you about it.

You're not a cop, I'm allowed to post in this thread, I disagree with what you say and I'm calling you a rude rear end in a top hat for responding the way you did. This isn't a one-man show for T-man to applaud your doomblogs about how, actually, everything's awful and nothing can ever get better.

It may be helpful to acknowledge that you've probably put more thought into this stupid loving argument than you have into getting better, but you'll probably just pout and whine and call me ignorant for suggesting that too.

e: like how many replies in this thread do I need to have made for me to not be a bad actor? Which makes my arguments valid. Which makes your defenses invalid. Which means you've wasted your entire adult life saying you're helpless.

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 09:52 on Dec 4, 2020

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I'm damaged, I'll always be broken, no doctor can cure what ails me for I AM the disease! My mind itself is a rotten vessel, corpusculent and maggot-ridden, a corpse for the child I once was and yearn to be again.

There exists no remedy for this condition, for if there was my entire life would be a vain attempt to cherish this comforting agony as the only definition for who I am. Without my pain I am nothing, so I protect the pain, I nurture the pain, I let it take root and eventually the pain may become my entire being. If someone attacks the pain, I defend myself, of course, I'm no weakling, despite being a shattered man.

Come then, attack my pain and see where it gets you! I'll have you know that this curse I endure & have become is INVINCIBLE! EN GARDE!

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 10:24 on Dec 4, 2020

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
okay

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
When I'm feeling down I like to eat a whole pizza

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I got laid off the summer before covid and didn't try very hard to get work afterwards since working sucks and I went through my savings. After the pandemic was recognized for what it was I moved across the country and have been staying with my mom. I feel like I've failed as a human being but luckily I have a superb group of long time friends that keep me going day to day via a small discord server we're all on. We play games together and support each other and can talk about anything without having that vulnerability attacked. It's been a vital support structure for me. If anybody else is struggling I suggest making direct efforts to try to build something like it, either locally with people you can trust to stay risk-averse with or online.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

indigi posted:

yeah and if you don’t have a house just get some lumber and pvc pipes and wiring and make your own. this can be applied to nearly any situation

Sorry yeah you're right I should just make 9 paragraph posts about how awful everything is, that's the point of this thread.

edit so it's not just sarcasm: What is impossible about this? Should I be making sure that every single suggestion I make can be accomplished by an orphaned mute quadriplegic? That's my coping mechanism, it might work for you or somebody else reading the MENTAL HEALTH THREAD.

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 09:39 on Dec 5, 2020

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Therapy isn't abuse!

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Nobody knows how to be happy, that's why you play video games, try to jizz in somebody, and go to therapy idiot.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Life is just a cruel joke. Everything truly is Something Awful. When waking up I never know if I'm going to be berated by another terrible set of jesters that try to make mirth of my incredible genius brain or if I'll be left in peaceful quiet solitude.

I am truly broken. I accept that. I earned it. My precious unique mind is unable to be fixed by doctors, who simplemindedly suggest things like therapy. As if the dull bludgeon of a therapist could simply make me "feel better" like some kind of magical show for adolescents? Hah. I doubt that. My logic sense tells me it's exceedingly unlikely to happen.

You see unlike the rest of you people, I see what a sham everything is. My keen perception has let me discern the differences between good things and bad things. I know that therapy feels bad and hasn't worked, which tells me that it can never be good and will never work. I deduce this using my super genius brain powers.

I don't know how to fix my super great thoughts, and I do so very badly wish that I could be as dumb as the rest of you, but unfortunately I'm simply too intelligent to be told the lie of "you (I) can think about things differently."

I wish I could. But I can't.

Existence is an endless black hole of suffering in this chaos world filled with malevolence and desire which my broken body and mind is not allowed to be a part of due to the prejudices of the simple whole folks.

I don't make any goals because that would be foolish because of how broken I am, and that in no way exacerbates my feelings of aimlessness or hopelessness.

But unlike you plebs, that gives me the nihilistic conviction to take on the true enemies of man, like people saying that life isn't the worst thing ever.

In the immortal words of the Talking Heads, which I will quote in every post from now on, "Fighting fire with fire."

That is what I'm going to do.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 09:35 on Dec 7, 2020

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I came into this thread to see other posters’ coping strategies during covid, my bad. I didn’t realize it was endlessmonotony’s creative writing thread. Whoops! Guess I’ll gently caress off since making fun of self righteous assholes that tell people therapy won’t work and is abuse isn’t allowed here or whatever.

endlessmonotony posted:

Also, yes, as people who have seen me performing other voices like I normally do when I post, I do have completely functional work voices at my disposal. In multiple languages and styles.

I can pretend to be normal and fine, and not pretending and allowing others to see the miserable and confused person inside is among the hardest things I've ever taught myself to do. I was taught coping methods in therapy for my condition, and all it gave me was an unconvincing, stilted normal person act and a fear of ever deviating from the script I was given. Turns out people can tell when you're lying to them, and this combined with my sensory meltdowns makes for a person who does a very convincing act of a robot where the three laws circuit can reverse polarity at any time.

I'm not making friends when my first priority is presenting a Normal Adult Human facade.

I totally get why people are afraid of letting their true personality show, because we have an acceptable range of normal. But the way I post there is the way I think, it's what everyone finds when I get comfortable with them, and it's quite a loving departure from the "I'm just a little slow on my feet, I'm fine" lie. I can tell the truth now, and have people attack me, or I can tell the truth later, and have people I trusted turn on me. I would prefer simply the option of not having a brain disease, but as my doctors have told me, they do not have the technology and any therapies are more about giving me the coping methods to act normal when I need to do so to be a functioning member of society. As far as I need to, anyway. Which is not very far, given I can't do schedules and I'll start melting down trying to force myself to do too much, as well as missing a lot of physical function, thus neatly erasing literally every non-freelance job. And freelance jobs get counted directly against my benefits.

I would never find the amount of references or stupid puns I slip into these posts acceptable in professional writing, and letting my anxieties show or letting the paragraphs wander on without any real cohesive point is the point you flip the "editing time" switch. The voice is a choice and I can switch between them at any time.

I don't know how to operate in this world, but if there's one thing comparing my own behavior to others has shown me, it's not exactly rare and everyone else is just as lost. I just try to act a little more like I'd wish other people acted, listen to people, give them second chances, asking them what they wanted to accomplish rather than what I thought they were doing - and it has done far more for me than years of trying to force myself to be normal. Because it turns out that if I keep telling myself people gently caress up all the time and that doesn't necessarily make them bad people, I start believing it.

Quick question though, what the gently caress is this entire post about and who is it responding to? This isn’t a reply in a thread, it’s a short chapter in a lovely ESL sequel to Catcher in the Rye.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

DoubleDonut posted:

just moved to Seattle after having lived in rural NC almost my whole life. I’ve never felt even close to this overwhelmed and anxious

I had the same experience when I moved to NYC in my early 20s. It will get much easier after a while.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

skooma512 posted:

My current one offered to refer me another on the platform who could accommodate my schedule. Whether or not such a therapist is available, and has appointments within the next decade, we'll have to see.

I've tried the therapy path like 3 times before this, and I've never come away from it feeling any better or with any tools to help me. One even practically yelled at me because I didn't know how to therapy and she was getting annoyed that I wasn't talking as much. I have social anxiety because I expect people don't want me around or talking to them, so no poo poo? This is probably the wrong thing to say here, but part of me suspects therapy is mostly a grift riding high on placebo effect and the power of suggestion. It also doesn't help that I can't establish long term relationships with these people because 1. I work for a living and can't see them regularly 2. I can't afford to keep seeing them when the free sessions run out.

Hi, therapy isn't a grift, sorry the therapists you've seen haven't worked out for you. Some therapists suck, and it can be especially hard if the things that drive you nuts (so to speak) are present in the clinical format - offices, scheduling, that kind of poo poo.

On the other hand, have you considered possible elements of self sabotage here? Nothing will make therapy work if you're looking for reasons it won't. Your use of the phrase "placebo effect" here indicates a weird take on what you expect to be happening in a session. One of the biggest misconceptions about therapy is that it's something that happens to you rather than you working on yourself with guidance.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

Uganda Loves Me posted:

I've been trying to find a place where I can take action with people who see eye-to-eye with me. I was active in Indivisible for a while, then I was with DSA for a while. I know that no one is going to completely agree with me about everything. Maybe I need to alter my expectations. I'm still active in NAMI, but I basically keep my beliefs to myself there. I want to find a constructive outlet for my political beliefs, but I have no idea what that would look like. Maybe I should look for organizations that focus on a single issue with which I agree.

Hey, wanted to chime in to mention that you don't have to align perfectly with people to help out at a brake light clinic or other ground work community stuff once the pandemic is over. Everybody at those things is generally gonna be pretty "gently caress the police", and the direct action may do you good for a bunch of reasons. At the very least, it's bulletproof ammo if you end up confronting the chuds in your groupchat again. Just a suggestion, since your post directly references you not knowing how this might look in your life.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

Destroy My Sweater posted:

I know I'm preaching to the choir complaining about US healthcare here, but is there any sort of concrete way to deal with (non-diagnosed) anxiety/depression associated with getting treated for a chronic condition? Like, the constant fear of losing your medicine? I feel like people on insulin must deal with this but I wasn't sure if it had a name.

While your anxieties are extremely legitimate, if they're interfering with your life in negative ways therapy absolutely could help with this. You may not even need formal therapy - support groups for people dealing with medical issues exist and based on the end of your post it might be extremely gratifying for you to just air things out with people in similar situations. Best case, you may even get some better info on how to navigate your poo poo.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

Ball Tazeman posted:

I feel like a failure that Im 30 and never left my home county, got a degree that never got me a job, have to work in food service, never left the country, etc. I feel like I’ve missed so much in life.

I turn feelings like this into anger at the people that have denied our entire generation opportunities to live and thrive. I don't know if that'll work or be better for you but it's how I handle that kind of thinking. Anger, for me, is actionable. It also removes some pressure from myself and rightly places it on massive institutional failures/sabotage.

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

I was in the middle of a downward spiral this month and all of sudden today I took a vitamin D and everything is back to feeling good and normal. Thanks for listening.

Yeah vitamin D helped me too, not as sudden as what you describe but I haven't lost myself for days in loops of sleep -> videogames -> eat -> sleep since I started taking it regularly last fall. Finding out from a doctor's visit that I was deficient was very good for my general wellbeing poo poo. For me the change was just wanting to do stuff instead of hissing at the sun and sleeping for 14 hours.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I know I'm the weirdo for still wearing my mask at drive throughs and stuff but as long as I see em on workers' faces I'm gonna keep wearing it because I'll be hosed if I'm gonna let that poo poo turn into a class signifier without fighting it. I'm really angry basically any time I'm not whacking off or playing video games because this world is broken. I've been clicking on Youtube Shorts on my phone instead of sleeping and it's an endless parade of sexy idiots saying The World's Stupidest poo poo.

I'm fine I'm just ornery but my world is very small right now and most of what I bump into from Outside is just absolute trash and it makes me want to hide more and not do anything.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Hope your poo poo's okay Chokes.

I've been taking 6 mile long walks with some friends frequently (once or twice a week) and it's making me feel better.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Going on walks with a friend every few days and playing D&D in person with (quarantined/vaccinated) buddies helped me get through the worst of the 2020 poo poo, but since I've moved away from my parents' house I'm away from the person that walking routine worked with and I'm back to roleplaying over Discord, which doesn't break me out of my solitary screen time bubble. It seems like everybody I know is just trucking through this pandemic (have jobs, relationships) but I was in a weird spot when it started and sitting on rear end for 18 months hasn't helped with that much.

Still being half locked down isn't making me optimistic about my prospects of starting something new, employment or otherwise. BUT! There is a lot of great pornography online, so

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
When I get really angry about the state of the world I remind myself that I am a poor person of questionable mental health and shouldn't hold myself accountable for America. That's not to say I'm not right about everything but it helps the feeling that I'm somehow making things worse or not helping enough.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

poo poo POST MALONE posted:

I think a telling portion of my session yesterday was the dude saying "I can't prescribe anything." to me as if I was even asking for medication.

makes me think maybe I do need it lol

That idiot fucker is bringing poo poo into the room with him, and it's causing you to second guess what you're saying and analyze his little comments. You gotta get out of there dude that space is not for you anymore he's stealing it from you

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
What's it called when you're really fixated on something and it's keeping you from operating normally? Every 10 days or so I get a night where I can't fall asleep because I keep mentally getting caught up in some emotional poo poo from years ago. I use screen time to get my mind off things until I'm so tired I pass out, often into the late morning of the following day. It fucks up my sleep schedule and I've missed things that are important to me because of this issue. Just want to know what to say when I do seek help. TIA.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I moved to a tiny town in the middle of the desert and got a job delivering pizzas instead of trying to get another bullshit white collar thing. It feels pretty good to have made a move of my own volition (everything in my life before this has been either a proscribed path or a reaction) and "owning" that is keeping me pretty responsible. Still working on getting a apt but the rent is cheap and even staying in a hotel for a few weeks has been affordable (if not comfortable or secure).

Chuka Umana posted:

I don't think bourgeois students have college debt.

Fortunately I was able to pay off my student debts with a $250,000 settlement from Pizza Hut after one of their workers had the runs in the tomato sauce of one of the pizzas I ordered from them.

I don't usually recommend people eat poo poo but I think anybody would take that deal.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I posted this in the last page but my ability to deal with poo poo has gotten much better after abandoning the self imposed responsibility to earn the maximum amount of money I can justify. I'll have enough to live okay and that is fine until I knock somebody up or want to do something extravagant like see a doctor

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

Shifty Nipples posted:

I think you misunderstand. I am depressed because I have a permanent physical disability which means that society sees me as useless if not a burden. Because society is unlikely to change in a way that uplifts my worth and I am unlikely to become magically not physically disabled I will likely continue to suffer from depression. I am physically broken and frankly it is insulting to be told to get used to it.

Hi unless your physical thing mechanically causes depression, the two are not intrinsically linked. If your condition is permanent, you absolutely must "get used to it" and the people telling you to do that (in doubtlessly more patient & accommodating terms) are working towards your best interest. Nobody is trying to insult you by suggesting that despite your physical stuff, your depression can be treated. But by all means keep looking for reasons to not improve.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

Shifty Nipples posted:

You are a fool.

I have sympathy for your poo poo but this:

Shifty Nipples posted:

I am depressed because I have a permanent physical disability which means that society sees me as useless if not a burden. Because society is unlikely to change in a way that uplifts my worth and I am unlikely to become magically not physically disabled I will likely continue to suffer from depression. I am physically broken and frankly it is insulting to be told to get used to it.

...is a thing you can address with talk therapy. It has nothing to do with your physical stuff at all. The poo poo you posted here is about self esteem and your own sense of worth. Throwing your hands up and saying "well this is impossible to change" isn't just counterproductive and wrong, it could end up convincing you to hurt yourself.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

ricecult posted:

The tone of your original posting was not encouraging or helpful and several people called you out on it. Even here referring to challenging situations (the intersection of mental health with objectively difficult situations) as "your poo poo" is really belittling, so whatever tough love you envision yourself as offering is not coming off that way and you've already been told so, and that is your own shortcoming, not anyone else's weakness or desire to suffer.

I will absolutely point out when I see posters convincing themselves (and maybe other readers) that talk therapy isn't a hugely useful tool for mental health or that they are somehow irrevocably broken. Both of those ideas are like two steps away from a suicide note and letting this thread, which I also consider to be a valuable resource, turn into a death cult for the terminally sad would be stupid as hell.

It's not a coincidence that the people who reject therapy are the same ones that react strongly to their doomposting getting called out.

That said, I was kind of a dick in my original reply to shifty nips and even though I stand by my point I apologize for the insulting taunt at the end. Those kinds of posts hit a nerve for me but yeah this isn't the place to throw poop for that sort of thing. I used "your poo poo" in my later reply because I didn't wanna inaccurately summarize their whole physical/mental health deal.

Sorry Shifty Nipples.

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 05:38 on Oct 21, 2021

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

StashAugustine posted:

currently freaking out by myself at work because I, an alleged controls engineer, plugged in a badly wired device and blew out the fuse on my cubicle outlet. clearly this means I will be summarily fired and never find work again

same

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

Vasukhani posted:

i really dont care about stuff

least stressed ive been in years

i actually like caring about stuff

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006

CaptainACAB posted:

Well finally found someone who can help me. It's been rough. I broke my toe about a month ago at this point and it keeps getting worse to where Ive been in blackout pain multiple times. Had blood drained from it already but multiple visits to both my GP and the ER have essentially ended in me being told to go gently caress myself despite the fact I've been begging anyone to help me. Got treated like a junkie or a faker repeatedly. On antibiotics now that they finally realized that my toe is not ok and I was given a referral to a podiatrist who can't see me for over a month.

Fortunately I found another podiatrist who can actually see me before I'm driven to utter madness by this endless pain. Made the appointment for Thursday. I hope someone can finally fix this, or at the very least act like they give a poo poo.

I also finally found a councillor to help me. I don't know if they're psychologists or psychiatrists or what but they are the only one in three counties I found who will take new patients, although that could be because I was on the verge of tears when I left the voicemail for them. This situation had left me having panic attacks so bad I've also been hospitalized. Doc didn't seem to give much of a poo poo and just handed me a script for lorazepam because he had a meeting to get to. Unfortunately I'm rather afraid to take the lorazepam because I also have to take hydrocodone for my toe and apparently the two do not mix well.

Situation with mom is maybe a little better because I was finally, after weeks of calls, able to get her doctor and psychiatrist to link up so her meds are straightened out. However my own condition means I really can't care for mom anymore.

We had a consult with home health people and I'm going to sign the contract. We can afford it. Only just, but if we don't make this work I feel like I'm actually going to die. Mom doesn't like it but I have power of attorney and I do not give a poo poo anymore.

So I guess there's some hope for the future but good god why so I have to fight this loving hard just to get anyone to even accept money to help? I'm so loving tired. Just psychologically and physically drained.

It sounds like you're making progress on stuff that's going to improve your quality of life! That's a big deal and a really good thing, congratulations. Dealing with home health care stuff is scary and can be hard emotionally but you are making the right call here, even if you can make the time and give the effort it is actively harmful to have to do the things that requires for a parent.

DoubleDonut posted:

None of these are great solutions and part of that is because I've just kind of given up on being actually satisfied with my life at all. I don't even have a lot of the significant familial or health problems a lot of people in here have, but Christ, I just wish I could figure out what to do with my life

That sucks!

Jorge Bell has issued a correction as of 04:49 on Nov 3, 2021

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
I wish you success and a good amount of foot money

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Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Recommend all the nutjobs itt move to small towns in the deserts of the American southwest

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