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Hunters Entertainment is going to develop Werewolf: The Apocalypse 5th Edition. This reminds me that I should check out Kids on Bikes, like I always keep meaning to.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:43
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Derek Fcking Carr posted:A rough session where a stray dog was fully drained by a Gangrel PC caused a few people in the group to be a little uneasy, but in a game of personal horror it's kinda difficult to gauge where the group is mentally at without spoilering some of the content. I'm running a game of V5, and while I haven't used that checklist in particular, I have used the one that it clearly borrows its presentation from, the checklist from Monte Cooke Games' Consent in Gaming. I actually prefer theirs over the one in your post, if only because it's got less topics on it in general (with some blank spaces for people to add their own topics) so it's a quicker fill, a better explanation of the Red/Yellow/Green check boxes, and most importantly, it lets you put in what you believe the theme of the game is and its "rating." Those last two are vitally important for context and expectations. It's been pretty successful, there's just some considerations you'll need to keep in mind. You'll need to fill it out, too. You're playing as much as anyone else is, and your comfort level is just as important. You should consider having your sheet be publicly available as an example, but your players should have the choice of whether they show theirs to the group or just to you. You also should create a master list of what's Red, what's Yellow, and what's Green, without identifying who contributed what, and have that master list easily available. When you're compiling topics, if one person rates the topic at a higher level than the rest (i.e. one person rates something a Red when everyone else rates it Yellow or Green, or even one Yellow among a sea of Green), put it in the higher level. Ideally, you should be pairing it with a safety system, for when a topic comes up that no one thought of, or when someone realizes that what they had rated a topic back at the beginning of the game has changed into a new category. I use the X/N/O system from this summary here: https://imgur.com/a/tIJlArK Interestingly enough, I've had to be the one to go, "Woah, let's take a step back here," more times than my players. There's plenty of ways to do this, and sometimes all you really need is a full frank discussion, but in my case, I think it really helped and created an environment where players felt more comfortable with things.
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Dec 28, 2020 19:25
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GNU Order posted:I was always under the impression that the formal checklists were meant more for like Con play, where you don't wanna sit down at a game with a table of strangers and have some GM leering over you describing a rape or something way over the line, and that the better option for people you know is less formal but still does the same thing In my case, while I knew everyone at the table and had played with them before, for most of the group this was either their first time in a World of Darkness setting, their first time in a horror/urban fantasy game, or their first Vampire game. Some of them also haven't been in a group with each other before. I decided that a more formal checklist would be a better way of establishing boundaries and safety. If it had been my usual WoD or CofD groups, I probably would have kept things more casual. Just to be clear, I used this checklist, not the one we've seen earlier:  Again, I like it more because it allows me to quickly explain the game, the general "rating" I prefer, and unlike the other one, it's not throwing a whole bunch of nasty topics at you at once. The taboo section, to me, is really, really unnecessary. The "Additional Topics" section covers those sorts of eventualities without making the whole thing feel like the Worst Survey Monkey Ever. It also opens the door to talking things out with the GM, and the other one doesn't. Once more, it's also immensely important that a GM show their sheet first, either to the group as a whole or individually through PMs and such. If your players are just handed a blank sheet without an idea of what's already Red or Yellow, it's just going to end up looking like, well... moths posted:The checklist signals to me that the campaign default is on transphobic gore incest rapist spiders unless I check enough red circles. Like that! So, once I got the Master Consent List up, Session 0 and the campaign from here on out has gone smoothly since.
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Dec 29, 2020 17:25
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citybeatnik posted:As i bodge together my character sheet i do have a question: since i still don't grokk the new difficulty system, should I avoid the jack-of-all-trades distribution? Just having a bunch of 1s in stuff seems like it might not be worth it. The short answer is yes. Since each die has a 50/50 chance of getting a success, the game treats Difficulty 2 Tests (2 dice in your pool that come up as a 6+) as a difficulty baseline, and quickly goes up from there. The book mentions that Difficulty 1 (1 die in your pool that comes up as a 6+) Tests exist, but these will be probably be very rare in your game. I don't think published adventures use Difficulty 1 Tests at all, at least as far as I can remember. I feel like they only exist for rolls where the actual question is whether or not the Beast makes something worse, as opposed to whether or not the character succeeds. Wins at a Cost (getting any number of successes but not meeting the Difficulty) do exist, but they're at the discretion of the ST. When I run V5, I always use Wins at a Cost and treat them like a Weak Hit in a PbtA game, but that might not be true for your ST. Willpower is very useful, but as Hunger increases, dice in your pool get converted to Hunger Dice, which can't be re-rolled with Willpower. Therefore, it is very, very difficult to succeed with small pools, and it only gets worse if your Hunger increases. Also, as your pool increases, you can take better advantage of Taking Half (i.e. dividing your dice pool in half and treating that as the number of success you got from a roll). If nothing else, you'll want to make sure that any dice pools related to your Predator Type, how your character prefers to win conflicts, and any other dice pools that you feel are important to your character's concept or shtick, have a decent amount of dice in them. ritorix posted:Basically read this and avoid jack of all trades. I'll second recommending that article, and I genuinely wish some form of that advice was in the V5 core rulebook itself. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 19:05
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joylessdivision posted:The WoD thread making me remember a Nick show from the 90's I haven't thought of in 20 odd years. Twibbit posted:Young me was a super fan of the show when it aired. I guess it got stuck in my brain from that. I'm still reading through Deviant, but what I think is really neat about it is that you can easily play it as "Weekday Afternoons on 90s/early 00s Sci-Fi Channel Simulator." In some cases, you'll have to darken things up but it's such a versatile game that you can take almost any old short-run Science Fiction/Fantasy broadcast TV protagonist and throw them in a campaign. Alex Mack? Yes! The Misfits of Science? Oh yeah. That Invisible Man reboot in the early 00s? Sure, and he can fight the Blumhouse version too, why not? The Manimal? You do you, buddy! I really wish I had more time to game. A chronicle where the meta-premise is "protagonists of dark reboots of goofy high concept TV shows team up in a big crossover" is really grabbing me right now.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:16
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1176514858 Here's the big update, if anyone's interested. It seems like the new edition of Reckoning will not carry over the Imbued, and they're not directly connected to the Second Inquisition either. Since they're going with, "the old editions are still there" regarding playable Imbued, my guess is that Reckoning is going to be an World of Darkness take on Hunter: the Vigil: street-level hunters with the factions of Hunters Hunted who haven't joined the SI (i.e pretty much just the Arcanum and perhaps a redeemed Children of Osiris if they remember those people exist) serving as the equivalent of Compacts and Conspiracies. Also it looks like the Umbra is actively rejecting Garou, and it'll only focus on 11 Tribes. Considering how 5th Edition prefers to be pure street-level and highly focused on the concept of "political horror" as a philosophy, none of this comes off as too much of a surprise. It almost feels like a double down on Revised in a lot of aspects. I'm still left wondering why they didn't just do a hard reboot on the metaplot, though. At this point if you're writing around the elimination of an entire central game character from their splat, you might as well just start fresh. Or, at the very least, develop a brand new game line with World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness elements fused together, since at this point 5th Edition is quickly becoming very different from the previous four editions of WoD and obviously CofD itself.
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Oct 14, 2021 18:19
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Warthur posted:Is it 100% confirmed that these Hunters aren't Imbued? Because they sound a lot like Imbued to me, what with them having sudden access to hidden reserves of power and all. The livestream announcement for the new edition explicitly said that the Imbued will not be in the game. My guess is that there'll be a quick handwave explaining that the Imbued themselves died out in some way between 2003 to now to tie back in with the previous edition, but their basic condition just happens to people now, no Messengers necessary. It's either that or Edges in H5 are just numina, psychic powers, and whatever hedge sorcery doesn't up in the Mage splat under a catchy umbrella term.
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Oct 30, 2021 01:00
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Fuzz posted:Hot take: the best thing V5 did was shove most of the metaplot behind the sofa. I don't know, I feel that's a bit of a strange thing to say when Loresheets are direct plug-ins to metaplot elements, a significant amount of the V5 adventures follows up on or continues elements of it, and, most importantly, it's still hugely important on how the game's run. I'd say it's less shoved behind the sofa and more approached like actual gameable setting material. The defection of a significant portion of the Lasombra to the Camarilla and the consolidation of the necromantic splats into a single Clan are straight up Pure 90s White Wolf Metaplot moves, they're just more palatable thanks to the general unlocking of Clans from default setting Sects with the former and a Requiem-inspired toolbox approach to the latter. It's very much the right approach, all the goofy history throwing its shadow on the present is honestly one of the biggest appeals VtM specifically has, especially now that the system and play style's taken more than a few pages from its younger sibling.
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Jan 6, 2022 01:52
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Fuzz posted:It's all Good Changes, lore and gameplay wise. I'm well aware of the more open setting, I enjoy playing around with it quite a bit in my campaign. I can do stuff and allow character concepts that...well, I'd do and accept them anyways, but now it's not a headache to do. Now I can focus on the fun, new ways running the game gives me a headache! The point though, is that all of those changes your talking about? That's metaplot, baby. While it shoves some NPCs to the background, it raises others to a higher narrative importance or shift them into a different place with the same narrative importance. Early V5 even tried to get some NPCs onto that level (Hi Fiorenza! Hi Rudi!), it just had the good sense to give them Loresheets, not statblocks. Many of the changes that led to the open setting are either continuations of plotlines set up in Beckett's Jyhad Diary, the big huge V20 metaplot book, or are brand new but eventually written as connected to elements of the metaplot. A VtM that was actually interested in hiding the metaplot behind a sofa wouldn't have an entire adventure with the fate of Mithras as a plot point, have the new antagonist faction formed in part by a character from 1992's Hunters Hunted, or still have the Capuchin of all people be a major player. Using metaplot for a more game-friendly setting is still using metaplot! You're still playing in a big old 25+ year old storyline! The big lore changes aren't all that different in spirit or function than previous metaplot bombshells, even if they're ultimately more accessible to the table. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 16:08
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Fuzz posted:Yes, and that's really splitting hairs. The metaplot is behind the sofa as background now, is my point, not in your face also being the sofa, the table, the loveseat, the dining table, all of the chairs, the lamps, the TV, and the 20 people standing around eating finger foods and making small talk. It's a backdrop rather than all of the set dressings and half the cast. But it's still very much in the foreground! The Conclave of Prague and its consequences, the Sabbat's descent back into a shadowy 1e style death cult, the possible expiration of the Promise leading to the Hecata, the rise of House Carna, these are very blatant, very in your face changes either justified by story elements pre V5 or tied into said story elements after the fact. If you're coming into the game as a veteran player, most of these changes are pretty blatant, and tied into the greater narrative. If you're new or don't really care it doesn't matter as much, but that's always been true with each VtM edition launch. These changes don't seem like in your face metaplot for a few reasons. The first is that the big deal metaplot bombshells are mostly in the core, which is a different feeling than a sudden change in a sourcebook you didn't get. The big non-core changes are either giving express permission to something tables were doing anyways (Cam Lasombra, wow!) or gives you plenty of options to keep on in spite of the changes (the alternate Discipline spreads for playing the individual Hecata member factions), so even those feel softer. The second is that the biggest presences of the metaplot, the pre-written adventure and the specific splatbook, aren't really around in this edition. Unless you really care about London or Chicago, nothing's changing things up in those adventures/books, and the other sourcebooks are more coffee table or antagonist books. The original One World of Darkness plan, if I recall correctly, was that the major narrative changes would occur in video games, blockbuster LARPs, and the ever promised TV series, all of which would reflect into the tabletop games later. Therefore there'd no longer be a need for an adventure or a section of a splatbook to fulfill that kind of metaplot purpose, which makes the tabletop game feel more stable when it's metaplot is actually going at a similar speed as previous editions. That plan's dead for a lot of reasons, of course, but it still plays a factor. The last reason is that, well, you like the current metaplot and the changes it brings. For the most part, I do too! But, for example, a dedicated Sabbat player would never say it's not in your face, not after the V5 antagonist book. I don't care for the Sabbat gameplay style, never have, and I'm pretty sure you don't either, but that doesn't mean that Sabbat player would be wrong. And yeah, they have a different game to play, plenty, but that's not the point. The point is that metaplot is still there, still blatant, and still changing the game dramatically. All I'm saying is that metaplot is still very much a big deal in V5, even with its more modern approach. There's a lot of mechanical, tone, and aesthetic changes, but underneath all that it's still very much a VtM game. But that's enough words out of me!
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Jan 6, 2022 17:57
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Fuzz posted:The authors of the V5 Sabbat book have put out a "homebrew" unofficial guide for actually playing as the Sabbat, since Paradox essentially said no to any official supplement allowing you to play as them. Crazy high production value, has some very clever mechanics for making the paths and stuff work within the framework of V5. It seems like you care at least a little bit, maybe more so! Ribbing aside, I can always use more Loresheets! The writers of the official book doing an unofficial add-on while the edition is active and having it compete with other attempts is absolutely fascinating to me. Does anyone know if something like this ever happened in the d20 OGL heyday?
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Feb 8, 2022 21:59
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Ferrinus posted:* In V5, is there a limit on how many Loresheets you can have? As far as I know there is not. It's officially one Loresheet per character based on commentary from the edition's main mechanical developer and the sourcebook Cults of the Blood Gods. The first section on Loresheets in V5 Core says that at the Storyteller's discretion, players can purchase dots in "additional Loresheets during gameplay," and weirdly enough that's still in there even after this ruling (I thought I had the most recent printing of the core but maybe not?), but otherwise 1 Loresheet per character has been the going standard for the rest of the edition. Players can also buy into a Bloodline (a specific Loresheet representing their nature of their undead heritage) in addition to a regular Loresheet, but in official material that's limited to the Hecata to represent their various internal factions. EDIT: Turns out the extra Loresheet at Storyteller's discretion is actually part of the corebook's errata and my memories are just scrambled eggs, but apparently the CotBG's statement holds and also considers "Descendant of..." Loresheets to count as retroactive Bloodlines. But then also The Chicago Folios introduces a rule that if you've gained all five levels of a Loresheet, you can buy into an additional Loresheet with narrative justification as long as its not a "Descendant of..." (and I would assume this also applies to Bloodlines). So with all that in mind, I guess it's ideally 1 Loresheet during character creation with an additional "Descendant of..." or Bloodline Loresheet, with the option of either gaining a new Loresheet once you've gained all your abilities of your current Loresheet, or just at the Storyteller's discretion. So, I guess it's technically 1 but only as a soft limit? I apologize for this sudden mental wild goose chase I've led everyone on. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 9, 2022 |
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Feb 9, 2022 19:14
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citybeatnik posted:What were problematic about them exactly? I never touched the game line except when I brushed up against it on New Bremen, although the ST for my upcoming V5 game is apparently cribbing heavily from them as an unknown factor to compliment the SI trying to get us. There's the aforementioned mental health issues, and I've seen discussion elsewhere about how the Imbued's concept and execution have uncomfortable associations with right-wing militas that's only gotten stronger with things like Qanon. All that aside, though, I feel like the Imbued's days were numbered as a protagonist splat anyways since 1. Their existence is based around WoD's metaplot approaching endgame, which no longer applies and 2. Assuming that some aspect of Ericsson's "Back to the First Edition Spirit" (whether or not you'd consider it that is up to you) thematic focus is still in play, it makes perfect sense to focus on the types of characters from Hunters Hunted while using the brand name that's been on video games. I do hope there's some mechanical leeway for making an Imbued somewhere in H5, though. I've always liked the idea of the Imbued as an exploration of an urban fantasy version of the Paladin, and what that means when it's thrust on ordinary people. Which, I suppose, I could just get with Exalted, but I've always preferred modern/realistic historical/science fiction settings. I've got them in the V5 game I'm running as well, in a similar role where a dwindling Imbued population isn't sure whether to see the Second Inquisition as the cavalry coming or the start of something darker. I'm gonna read the H5 book and see how it approaches things before I decide on how that'll play out in my game (unless my players force my hand, which, you know, always count that happening).
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Mar 8, 2022 18:22
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Maybe it was just me and my inherent ability to No Prize things, but I always felt like the Second Inquisition being a general term for "specific forces within the intelligence community discover the vampires" was actually the intended goal as presented in the corebook, it's just that it's one of many setting changes the book has to present as the new Status Quo and that they expected a book expanding on the SI coming out in about six months to a year after the corebook's publication, as opposed to four.
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Mar 20, 2022 18:02
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Kavak posted:To add fuel to a completely different fire, a facebook post from a writer on the upcoming W5 board game says the new lore has the Get of Fenris falling to the Wyrm. Just reading the comments there makes me want to actually try and learn Forsaken 2e to scrub the taste of Apocalypse out of my mind. It's been hinted that something's up with the Get since Heart of the Forest, the Werewolf adventure game that came out around when Earthblood came out, and the latest V5 comic from what I hear. I assume, though, that them falling to the Wyrm is different from the tribe that fell into total zeal, unless that's what they meant during the W5 preview stream. That could mean that perhaps there's still one more group that's unplayable in the W5 core, since I doubt Werewolf is going to make antagonists playable if Vampire didn't. Edit: It just hit me that this means I probably have to go scrap some stuff in my V5 campaign yet again, I had the majority of the Lupines on my city's outskirts be a still very much in the Nation Get, whoops! At least I could scrap the Imbued hooks before one of them showed up on screen. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Apr 10, 2022 |
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Apr 10, 2022 00:06
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citybeatnik posted:To those who run V5 games how do y'all handle Rouse Checks for downtime? Like if it's a week's worth of downtime between sessions is that seven rouse checks? If the passed week of downtime is narratively important to the current Story (for something like "the characters are waiting out a week before enacting a plan"), then yes, at least seven Rouse Checks, more if there's Aggravated Health damage to heal. At any time, during all that, the players may choose to make a feeding roll or play out a feeding scene depending on how in-depth they'd like to get. That much downtime rarely happens in my game, though. A Story in my game is normally 3-5 very active nights. If it's a week or more between Stories, I'll just bump up their Hunger by one or two (healing an equivalent amount of Aggravated Health damage if they've got any after the previous Story), then kick off the new Story with feeding rolls or scenes.
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Apr 14, 2022 14:36
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Ferrinus posted:Relatedly, I think the "you just take a point of damage" or "your Hunger goes up out of nowhere" bestial failures are poorly conceived, since it's like the Beast is sabotaging its own chance at successful predation rather than your attempts to rise above its urges. I've never been a huge fan of some of the options on what could happen on a Messy Critical or a Bestial Failure. I get that they're trying to encompass a wide variety since either result could happen any time you roll the dice unless you're at Hunger 0, so an ST is prepared for those results on a Wits+Crafts test or something, but some of the options are kind of boring out-of-context (the ones you mention, losing a point of an Advantage), or leaving narrative money on the table (a loss on a Messy Critical). I really wish that section was longer, so that it could elaborate on how to come up with new options on the fly using the results' base concepts, and perhaps provide some examples for how to bake in every suggested option into the fiction of the game as it's actually happening. The one narrative example we do get is for Stains on Messy Critical (an option I really like!) is how it'd affect an Auspex power, but it's weird because Stains seem like they're best handed out for something a vampire actually did in the moment as opposed to a future vision that may or may not come to pass. I'm glad that Compulsions were added to Messy Critical in the errata and later printings, since those are by far the most versatile of the options, even if I'm not a fan of their mechanical executions.
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Apr 23, 2022 16:13
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Fuzz posted:I mean, if you're playing it that way your ST is terrible, what the gently caress. Or they're new to the game and trying to work on what guidance the corebook gives, which leans towards big, dramatic displays. The play examples for some compulsions aren't too far off from those goofy events. Sure, the new ST could read advice here or on Reddit or the WoD Discord, but you can't count on a reader knowing to do these things. This is why I think it was a missed opportunity to have a section either in the rules themselves or in the ST section on how to better prepare for when Messy Crits and Bestial Failures arrive, whether that means thinking smarter about when to call for a roll or providing a series of narrative consenquences when none of the mechanic-conmected options work for the moment. I hope the upcoming guide'll have a nice section on that.
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Apr 23, 2022 20:23
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Fuzz posted:The dice serve the narrative, not the other way around. The dice are the narrative, just as much as the dots on a sheet, the narrative ways that we as a troupe tie those dots together, and an ST's plans. System is story, and story is system. V5 understands this, it's why Hunger infiltrates a player's dice pool. It's a little heavy handed, but every roll of the dice has the potential to light up a scene in flames, and I've experienced it multiple times in my chronicle. That's why I really would have liked some non-mechanical, narrative options for an ST to select for Messy Critical and Bestial Failures, and perhaps some more in-depth ST advice on when to call for a roll, when to let a player take half, or when to just give them the win (or the loss!). This edition makes a dice roll feel like a much bigger deal than say, a Dungeons & Dragons game or even previous editions of Vampire: The Masquerade, and I don't think the core rulebook makes the implications of that clear enough, which is why new players and STs can end up blindsided. People turn to the dice for "trivial" things because it puts narrative decision making out of the ST's hands, it serves to set the pace, or because they see dice rolling as gameplay in and of itself. If they try that in V5, they could end up in situations that I think the core rulebook doesn't quite prepare them for. We know better as seasoned vets, but this is supposed to be the edition that reaches out to a larger audience, and I feel that not talking about how Hunger effects the story beyond pure mechanical effects is a missed opportunity. This isn't a knock on what I think is a very solid ST section, for what it's worth. This is just me wishing it had a little extra word count for this sort of thing.
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Apr 24, 2022 10:18
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Fuzz posted:Whelp, one of the devs just confirmed that one of the best parts of oWoD is still canon! I, for one, am immensely excited to see how Black Dog Game Factory fared since their buyout by Not-CCP.
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May 1, 2022 22:50
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MonsieurChoc posted:Here's a question for the V5 heads, and one not meant as an attack or anything. I'm genuinely interested. One of my favourite books for Revised was Archons & Templars. How would you do that kind of game in V5 considering the rules and metaplot change? I haven't read that book in particular, but if I were doing an Archon campaign in V5, I'd probably blue-sky it as something like this:
I'm not sure how'd I'd tackle Templars, considering the current state of the Sabbat. I haven't read any of the player-facing fan supplements for V5 Sabbat, but I'd be very surprised if none of them had ways to facilitate Templar play.
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May 12, 2022 20:44
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Fuzz posted:Have you checked out H5? It has a different system, but maybe it's good? I've heard that the overall vibe is very much like Vigil 1.0. It's actually more stripped down than even Vigil 1e at Tier 1, from what previews and discussions of the pre-release copy show. It's laser focused on the experience of "You and a bunch of obsessed weirdoes against the world, up to and including the organized hunter groups, who are niusances at best and collaborators at worst." It's also going ask to a bit more out of a new group since Edges practically demand reskinning (for example, there are only four explicitly supernatural abilities with generic effects to detect, keep away, or resist monsters, or just having a device that does supernatural things) and solid on-the-fly narrative explanations for some of their effects, and STs will need to do some mechanical lifting for monsters since only Vampires, Werewolves, and Sorcerers/Warlocks (they don't use the word "Mage," interestingly enough) get a very slim template. It seems like a bit of an oddity: its a standalone (aside from some discussion on what the WoD is in the intro and some vague references to things in the antagonist section, there's no actual requirement for it to be set in the World of Darkness!), immensely low power DIY game in the big sweeping multimedia WoD5 landscape. It's not quite a beginner friendly WoD game but it might be one with the potential broadest appeal? I wonder how it'll do upon full release. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jun 19, 2022 |
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Jun 19, 2022 17:01
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Fuzz posted:Whoa, this actually sounds kinda cool. It's intriguing, at the very least! I'm not sure if there's a lot in there for the majority of Hunters Hunted, Hunter the Reckoning Classic, or even Hunter the Vigil fans, but I can easily see this finding a niche among brand new people who want a monster hunting game so street level it's crawling on the asphalt. It seems like it's got some Cyberpunk 2020 or Shadowrun vibes at times: the recommended structure of the H5 narrative spends way more time investigating and planning for the hunt than actually doing it, living in the shadow of the government and private sector organized hunting, an understanding that becoming a hunter means an inevitable slide into some kind of hard living. Danger is genuinely a neat mechanic, its one part narrative pacing tool, one part doom clock. Edges are some slick design, it's one roll for a base effect and a number of additional automatic effects a player buys with Experience, some of which use the roll's win margin as fuel. On the other hand, it looks like it cuts so much more out of the WoD5 engine we've seen so far that it's genuinely eyebrow raising. There's no coterie-style rules to build a cell? Hunters don't get core rulebook access to Loresheets, one of the most popular aspects of Storyteller 5? Not even in a reskinned form more fitting for how hunters don't know a whole lot about the setting? No Morality/Integrity system in a game where it brings up how morality is an important factor in the Gothic-Punk aesthetic the game considers as default? It won't matter to new players, I think, but it might give people coming in from V5 pause. There's also some setting funkiness, even in this mostly standalone game. The dividing line between what makes a capital-H Hunter and a regular little-h hunter is Drive, a concept that is and yet is not a thing in the game's fiction. It's never referred to by name in-fiction and it's not something that every person who hunts a monster explicitly has in the setting, but it is not only described as something that awakens in a Hunter, but that it also irrevocably changes a person and as a mechanic provides access to Desperation Dice. That's not an inherent problem but I could see how a protagonist dividing line of "dude, trust me" might drive some players up the wall. It doesn't help that in one or two spots the game refers to H5 protagonists as "the Driven," which probably isn't an in-fiction term either? Creeds are also mentioned as a social group but we don't really see how that works, or how Hunter societies work outside of some generalities. With all the cool stuff from the Philippines in the core, it feels like there was a missed opportunity for a 1e CofD style setting section for Manila or Quezon City. I'm going to give it a spin with my V5 group once it fully releases and see it how it goes.
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Jun 19, 2022 18:31
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Pope Guilty posted:Wait is the new H:tR not the same splat/setting as the original? No, H5 doesn't focus on the Imbued and does not address them in any way. It's still technically in the greater WoD setting. In addition to monsters who have some ties to similarly named ones in the setting (and some who are in the basket of a "vampire" but don't fit the Kindred standard at all), some of the antagonists H5 Hunters face are the Special Affairs Division, the Society of Leopold, the Arcanum, and the Orpheus Group. However, it makes no mention of the Imbued whatsoever, and it seems like there will be no mention of the Imbued whatsoever. The protagonists of H5 do have Edges, but these are abilities like Assets and Aptitudes, things like "I have access to some good guns," "I have a drone," "I can hack stuff like in the movies," or "I have a really cool animal." The only explicitly supernatural abilities, the Endowments, are "I can detect a monster nearby," "I can freeze a monster in its place," "I'm resistant to a monster's tricks," and "I have a supernatural object that makes me better at certain tasks." Internet discussions refer to these protagonists as the Driven, but again, that doesn't seem like an actual in-fiction thing. They're just capital H-Hunters, because they have a Drive. V5: Camarilla is the only real hint at the Imbued in WoD5, which implies that they have a frosty relationship with the organizations that Kindred believe are the Second Inquisition, but that was before the creative head switched over to Justin Achilli, so I'd be very surprised if anything in the early V5 books like that got a follow-up. Ferrinus posted:I mean they're just going to reveal that Drive is the lambent embers of old-fashioned Imbued-ness, right? It's gotta be coming. Probably not, because Drive seems to just be a out-of-character element for why these Hunters are different from the hunters in organized groups, who, while they may have common ground sometimes, do not and cannot ever have the best intentions of a Hunter at heart. The chapter that establishes the mostly-standalone setting makes it clear that Drive and its associated terms are explicitly mechanical terms only. A Hunter would say that they're driven by vengeance, but no one in-setting says, "my Drive is Vengeance." The book talks about how Drives awaken, and how they don't necessarily awaken in anyone who does battle with the supernatural, but it takes great pains to keep that talk out of the fiction itself. Hunters are different from regular people because of their Edges and how they'll pursue monsters in their unique ways to the ends of the earth, but there's no unified supernatural source for a Drive, and Edges do not necessarily come from a Drive. An Edge could be an expression of a character's faith in divine power (and it says that True Faith is basically an Endowment Edge), or it could just be really good connections, or it could be just hastily put together prototype tech. Edges are intentionally made to have the players give them a fictional "skin." All Drive seems to do is just give a character-based explanation for how you access the group-wide dice bonus everyone gets access to for certain tasks determined by the character's Creed. Said group wide dice bonus, Desperation, rises when Hunters do badly, and falls when they succeed. It can also cause Overreach, which increase the Danger level of the hunt, or induce Despair in a character, cutting them off from accessing their Drive (and the group wide dice bonus) until they can "redeem" themselves as determined by their Drive. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 23:48
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Soonmot posted:What I'm asking the trad games hive mind is: do we keep the game lines in one thread or have our own siloed discussion. One thread, please. Neither WoD Classic, WoD5, or CofD books come out fast enough for a steady book discussion, and there's only three or four actively playing WoD5 people that I can think of who post regularly. A seperate thread might bring them out but I'm skeptical. I also can't see a separate thread creating any discussion that wouldn't already be here. WoD5, much like CofD's beginnings, has some serious growing pains (WoD5 seems like it had the most painful of the two, but I wasn't around for very early CofD) and came out to a tough crowd. If anything, this is all just the Wheel of White Wolf Games turning once more.
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Jun 21, 2022 23:40
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Fuzz posted:There's a lot more than that, they just never post and hang in various goon discords where we chat about it and most feel this thread is a nightmare helldump, that's kinda why I suggested it as one of the few 5th Ed interested people who still pokes his head in here. I know folks have already harped on it, but if you already have a community, I'm not sure how bringing them into a larger community with a new thread is going to create anything you're hoping is going to happen. In all likelyhood, it'll just turn into discussions like these, because these discussions are just what happens, as far as I can tell, on any public forum, from here to RPGnet to Reddit. If they think this thread is a nightmare helldump, why in the world would they want to post in the place where the actors who create the environment they do not like will come into the thread? We could certainly use a new thread with an updated OP now that we're two games into WoD5, I just don't see how a seperate thread for 5th Edition and one for everything else doesn't just become two smaller, slower threads of almost the exact same kind of discussion.
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Jun 22, 2022 02:29
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Fuzz posted:As for H5 I don't have it yet and ehh, we'll see. The lack of loresheets (which are one of the best things about 5E in my opinion) and the emphasis on being solo garage hunters and NOTHING ELSE was a misstep, even if the systems seem slightly interesting, at least the Desperation dice seems novel on paper. I don't get why they're so adamant about the lack of any organization, especially when they basically did it right the first (or I guess second) time with Compacts. Total wtf move. It makes sense if you consider that V5's design goal is to facilitate what it considers the core narrative arc of a Vampire game, "a group of vampires fight moral degradation in a politically fraught environment with threats from within and without." It stays on the tin that it's a game of personal and political horror, and by golly it's going to give you personal and political horror. It's capable of telling more stories than you'd think, but those stories will touch on that arc one way or another. The Hunger Dice, Stains, Convictions, and Touchstones ensure it. With that in mind, WoD5 probably considers the essential Hunter arc, one that spans across all version of the Hunter brand, as "Ordinary people are drawn into a world of monsters, and must fight back despite always being out of their depth." How do you keep a player feeling out of their depth? You keep them away from organizations, which could provide knowledge and training. You give them abilities with small but useful effects at a Difficulty high enough that you probably can't take half on it fresh out of character creation, to encourage them to use the dice bonuses that could either cut them off from future bonuses or thrust them into further danger. You keep the monsters weird, even if they might be the protagonist of another splat, so no one gets to be the person whose superpower is, "I collected the other corebooks." This is probably why Hunter was the second game in the WoD5 line, and why I think it's going to be a bit before we see 5es of Werewolf (though it seems like that since we're getting hints at what the setting updates are there, perhaps it'll be here sooner than we think), Mage (if it's even actually Mage, H5 makes me wonder if it'll get swapped out with Sorcerer as a mainline game), Changeling, Wraith, and whatever else beyond the big five might get an update. You can slim down Hunter, and we've seen them do just that. To fit in with V5 and H5's design goals, you need to boil down those other very large games into a singular, snappy narrative arc that all stories come back to. What would that be? What should it be? Those are questions with a lot of answers, and a lot of very unhappy fans no matter what answer you choose.
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Jun 22, 2022 19:03
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Fuzz posted:Wraith 5E This is the one I'm most curious to see how the current creative team will tackle. Well, that's not quite true, I was most curious about how they'd do 5e takes the metaplot-focused trilogy of lines (Hunter, Demon, and Mummy), but considering that the answer to "how do the Imbued fit into the established status quo set by V5?" is "we're not doing that," I'd be very surprised if we ever saw D5 or M5 (My5? Mum5?) in any form. One of the few places where H5 has explicit WoD ties is with the Wraith side of things, what with the Orpheus Group being an antagonist organization for driven Hunters. Its description seems to imply that it's the org just before the events of the gameline, which, along with W5's hook being that the Apocalypse came and went, could imply that Wr5'd be set after the Sixth Great Maelstrom. That'd be fitting for WoD5's emphasis on more flattened and unique political structures, since Wraith society is upended in a huge way. But, that also eliminates regular Stygian society as something to contend with, which would also be in keeping with what this edition wants to do. Also, unlike Ericcson, Achilli isn't super interested in addressing previous metaplot or doing new metaplot and isn't afraid to chuck things out the window if it doesn't match the determined focus of the game. I also wonder if Wr5 would have Shadowguides at all. I could easily see a Spite or Angst dice system similar to Hunger or Desperation and in-game incentives to allow a player to be their own Wraith's Shadow, but on the other hand the indie game scene's made something like Shadowguides less of a big ask and game safety tools are robust enough to cover a lot of pitfalls. There's a lot of really cool design space a Wr5 could have, especially if Projectors, Mediums, and Risen are brought into the game as potential members of a Wraith PC group. But this is all probably years and years out, so who knows!
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Jul 6, 2022 15:56
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a7m2 posted:I'm thinking of doing a duet initially, just so I can get used to everything. Are there any good pre-made modules that also cover the embrace of the player? I prefer using (and adapting if necessary) a pre-made module for my first time running something. There aren't a whole lot of V5 modules, and the ones that exist, to the best of my memory, don't have Embrace scenes. If you don't mind creating your own Embrace scene to bolt on it, you could try running "Power Prey" from Let the Streets Run Red, a book of modules for V5 set in Chicago. It's straightforward, it ties in a vampire's mortal life, and it can be placed in almost any city in the planet with some tweaking. There's also The Monsters if you want a free adventure, though the reception seems mixed from the DTRPG reviews and New Blood, which seems to have a better reception and would be cheaper than Streets. I haven't read them, so I don't know if those have Embrace scenes. You might have to bolt one on for these as well if you go this route.
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Jul 6, 2022 16:42
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a7m2 posted:What about older VtM modules that do have it? I don't mind adapting stuff to fit the rules, I did that with a Cyberpunk 2020 module to Red and it went just fine even though the rules are different and the setting has advanced. I'm mainly interested in using a module that captures the tone and unique concepts of the setting. In that case, your best available option would be Alien Hunger, an adventure from the first edition of VtM, an edition that V5's first developer claimed the current edition would be closest to. In theory, that's true, but in practice the two editions are very far apart. It also has a very unique Embrace by default. The protagonists are kidnapped subjects of an experiment by an Elder to seek a cure for Vampirism, which in this adventure not only exists, but is an obtainable object that the protagonists could use at the end of the adventure to restore their humanity! There's going to be some very early edition weirdness that you'll need to sync with V5's tone, but that shouldn't be much different from what you've already done with old Cyberpunk modules. You'd also need to do a bit of conversion. V5's engine assumes standard target number on a d10 is a 6 or higher, while earlier editions had varying target numbers in addition to needing certain amounts of successes. Previous editions defined Difficulty as the target number a die would need to have for a single success, whereas V5 defines Difficulty as the number of successes a character needs to achieve on the dice pool roll. A suggested conversion system I saw online says to take every Difficulty you see in the adventure, divide it by two, round down, and that's the V5 Difficulty for the task. That seems solid enough, though honestly I'd suggest reading throught the adventure and applying V5 Difficulties using your intuition. Until recently there was Blood Nativity, a 1e adventure that might be the only official English language suppliment not made by White Wolf until OPP/Modiphus/Renegade (that isn't a GURPS conversion), but it looks like that's out of print, probably because of recent licensing changes. Apparently it's short and not that great so that's not a total loss. If you don't mind putting in even more work and doing some serious conversion from another game entirely, you could swipe the story of the Vampire: The Requiem Demo (the first edition one with that exact title, not Reap the Whirlwind which is for second edition), since that has some dedicated Embrace scenes if I recall correctly, as well as Scenes of the Embrace, which...well, does what it says on the can. Requiem is a totally different setting from Masquerade, but V5 has just enough similiarity to VtR 1e that swiping what they have and coverting them to V5 might be worth the effort. If you do this, just remember to apply V5 Difficulties using your intution, and you'll need to hot swap some Disciplines that are present in one game but not in another (Requiem's Nightmare and Awe are kind of the two halves of V5's Presence power tree, for example, and Theban Sorcery/Cruac are probably things Blood Sorcery can do with enough elbow grease). You might be able to get away with taking any printed required successes, adding 1 (maybe 2 since the static target number in VtR is 8 and above?) and then having that be the V5 Difficulty, but I haven't run the math on that to be sure. I'm not sure if I recommend this route, but it is an option! It's actually fascinating how few Vampire adventures start from the very beginning, now that I'm putting it all down. It seems like they either assume a character's well into their unlife or just skips over the Embrace entirely. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 19:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:My big problem with Wraith 5 theoretical;ly getting rid of Stygian society is that it was (one of) the best part of the game. Yeah, unless it was specifically an Orpheus revival and not Wraith, I think there's got to be a Stygia or something like it in a proper Fifth Edition of Wraith. A good compromise might be a Stygia in redevelopment, it's been long enough since 1999. Also, that wouldn't be the first time something gets namedropped and then tossed aside in WoD5, lest we forget Camarilla's proposal that the forces of the Second Inqusition have an uneasy deal with the Imbued. Ultimately it's all up to what the WoD Brand Management team thinks the best parts of Wraith are, I suppose.
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Jul 6, 2022 23:15
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a7m2 posted:This thread seems to pretty mostly prefer VtR. Why is VtM5e so popular both online (way more content about it) and in other media (video games specifically)? The original three editions of VtM were a phenomenon in tabletop gaming that not even V5 can probably ever match and existed at the height of White Wolf's heyday (and when it was an actual company and not a license holder or a brand name for a larger company), so it could throw the IP out in all media. There were constant books, and even a TV show. VtR first came out only a few years from the Retail Apocalypse and the Great Recession, got hampered by White Wolf merging with CCP for an MMO that would never see the light of day, and only managed to net a film deal with New Line Cinema, a studio in for a bad time (and I can't imagine the D&D movie made another tabletop game adaptation very attractive). If I recall correctly, there were rumors of Obsidian looking to obtain video game rights to Requiem but the price was too high. VtM has just enough of a following from both gamers and consumers of its related media that a brand new Masquerade was bound to get attention. I think everyone knew it, which is why Onyx Path was going to do a VtM 4e set Post-Gehenna before the Paradox buyout and the (probably long dead now, given Achilli's most recent Hunter interview) One World of Darkness initative leading to V5's development. WoD5 with this new brand management team is fascinating because it feels the edition's shifting into a peek into an alternate universe where we got the version of nWoD that I think was considered for a hot minute before it became as we know it now: a soft reboot of the previous setting with a mechanical refresh. V5 also has the benefit of coming out during the Actual Play boom, and I think that's the secret sauce. When Critical Role is playing a playtest version of V5 and there's a five season web series with an established hashtag (hello, "Vamily"), that's a headstart that no edition of VtR could ever hope for. The only CofD property that's come anywhere close is Hololive's Mythbreakers campaign for Hunter: The Vigil, but in true CofD luck I don't know if there could be much capitalization on it since it was 1e HtV with bits of WoD content, its Vtubers so its a niche of a niche compared to LA by Night, and it happened too early to promote HtV 2e. The WoD youtube channel was there promoting WoD, which was strange at the time but now immensely obvious since H5 had to be in active development at the time. So basically it's just bigger market saturation, a more fortunate timing for a product launch, and a high accessibility of seeing the game in action. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 17:31
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Warthur posted:That's true, but that's also why neither Hunter worked for me because that's the only WoD PCs-as-monster-hunters concept I find interesting. Speaking purely to my personal tastes, Reckoning was a game that didn't need to exist (should have just been a compilation and rationalisation of the separate Hunters Hunted-esque supplements for the different game lines), Vigil was only the way it was because it had to feel something that felt close-ish to the Reckoning niche. You might want to give H5 a look anyway, since the protagonists of that game are probably about as normal as any WoD game is going to get. Their powers, so to speak, are things like access to weaponry or cars, drones, Hollywood hacking, and very minor supernatural powers like monster detection/repulsion/resistance. Upon a closer look, I'm not even sure if its really as much of a WoD take on Vigil as it looks on first glance; its so hyperfocused on street-level hunting and keeping even minor organization to either antagonist organizations or as a theoretical goal for a cell much latter down the line that sometimes it reads as more of a reaction to Vigil and its Tier 2 and Tier 3 just as much as its a reaction to Classic Reckoning's "Frailty: The RPG" vibe. You are a group of people with slight edges, and most of your time is identifying monster activity, preparing a plan, and trying to keep your Touchstones out of it, with any monster fighting serving as either a quick climax or short scenes when Danger gets high and poo poo gets real. That's it, that's all. If it wasn't for references to the Arcanum and the Orpheus Group, you'd almost think it wasn't a game set in the World of Darkness at all. If you do take a look at it though, it asks more out of a group than I think most WoD games do, which is weird because I'm almost certain the developer really want H5 to be an introductory game to the World of Darkness. The system is stripped down big time from V5, eschewing its advanced combat system options. Hunter characters only really have one real mechanic aside from their Edges, a Drive that really just adds a dice bonus to situations as determined by a character's Creed (which, as mentioned, is just a label for how a Hunter hunts in this edition). There's no morality system to speak of, an intentional design goal that Justin Achilli calls, "Sober Play," saying that while Vampires and Werewolves have things like Hunger/Humanity and Rage to influence their actions, Hunters mechanically have free will, something no other splat really gets. I don't know if I buy that since the Drive mechanic has a Despair status where a Hunter can't access their Drive, encouraging them to do things to "redeem" themselves and bring them out of Despair, but that's the idea. Antagonist building is so slim to the point that H5's equivalent of Dread Powers are on a single page, and there's only about 10 very long example monster antagonists to see how monsters work in it. Edges intentionally have no solid in-fiction description, its up to the table to put a skin on them. I guess what I'm saying is that if you're willing to live with filling in larger fictional design spaces than many WoD games have, the game might click for you? Tables looking for street-level monster hunting for a short to medium campaign length who aren't super interested in or are completely new to the World of Darkness setting seems to be H5's real target audience.
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Aug 6, 2022 03:01
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MonsieurChoc posted:I feel liek the best choice would be a complete reboot, keeping the MAsquerade name but officially jettisoning the continuity (not the weird half-assed way they're doing now) and importing stuff from both gamelines as needed. Want Count loving Dracula and the Chevalier de Thélème in the same setting as Malkav and Lucita? Sure go for it. That's where I'm at. V5 and the others should have been a hard reboot, sweeping away everything save for the very essence of the WoD games and what separates them from CofD so they can both serve as active brands. Exactly what that difference is is a matter of fierce debate, but if I were to take a crack at it, I'd say the specific essence of WoD is an intense emotional landscape, dedicated political structures from the micro to macro level, and a focus on eschatology. That still might be a bit too much overlap with CofD, but that's something to start with. From there you can do whatever you want depending on whether or not you need to keep the copyrights on certain faction names. The only problem with a hard reboot, and I figure the reason why it didn't happen aside from Ericsson really wanting to "continue the legacy" or whatever, is that people really like talking about WoD lore and speculating about it in and of itself. It's not a deal breaker since I'd say CofD's managed to achieve that same kind of dedication to its setting a decade on, but it potentially hurts buy in and could set you up for some very lean early years. I think that's a risk worth taking. V5 and its descendants were always going to be seen as a kind of "third WoD," so they really should have embraced it. For what it's worth, I'm having a lot of fun playing around in the setting space V5 creates. Its not only a fun thought exercise to figure out the full implications of how the setting got from Revised-era to 5 with each new thing we learn, it keeps me on my toes as the absolute fool who decided he was going to keep his campaign as close to the published setting as possible, no matter how much it changes over the course of it. Its done absolutely nothing to the player side of the table (thank God) but its certainly caused me to do some seriously re-scribbling in my notes in terms of antagonists. I think I wrote about this before, but so far that's just been cutting a possible story with the Imbued in one case and holding back on Werewolves as antagonists in the other. I originally designed my city with a significant population of Get and had a few of them show up as incidental characters, but now I want to wait and see exactly how they've fallen to the Wyrm, fallen into whatever "Haglust" is supposed to be, or if those are supposed to be the same thing.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:43
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Ferrinus posted:Which is fine, to be clear. I just don't get why everyone keeps saying otherwise. The randomization really does play a much more imoortant factor than the rules alone make it look. It absolutely is just "spend 1d2-1 BP/Vitae" at its heart, but the shift from a direct point spend to a roll causes a small but noticable psychological change when I compare the Requiem 2e game I'm in to the Masquerade 5e game I run. Both are concerned with resource management and both feel like looming threats, but the R2 table sees it as a harsh strategy game while the V5 table sees it as a constant gamble. The entire view of the in-fiction world changes because of that. This isn't scientific in the least, the two groups don't share players, but that seems to hold with other anecdotes. I figure it's the same reason why some shooters have the last bullet in the chamber hit 100% of the time, or why video games use psychological tricks in general: sometimes "bellyfeel" really does triumph standard design.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:33
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I remember having a really difficult time trying to tie the adventures in Reign of the Exarchs together, especially since I was a fool and thought I could get away running the whole thing as five sessions during Summer break. I pulled it off and the players liked it a lot but good golly that book went all over the place. That's also how I learned that sometimes you have to do some more heavy lifting than you'd expect even with a pre-written adventure.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:02
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Ferrinus posted:Now that they're making a serious run at Werewolf, I'm even more curious to hear reports from people who've played: is V5's roll-vs-roll at-most-three-rounds combat... good? There's a fan-written combat primer that I use as reference in my games, though I don't know if it's a commonly accepted one in the greater playerbase: https://www.v5homebrew.com/wiki/Combat_Primer In my experience, the system is fine enough, but indeed pretty swingy, especially when Hunger comes into play. It feels like a weird mix of WoD games past but also the OSR? Not really sure how to clarify that but it is my gut feel. Also, W5 saying its a reworking from the ground up and not a continuation of previous editions, but also needing to explain in tie-in fiction why the Get aren't around anymore even though H5 proved that you can just say, "I don't know and I don't really care, that's not what this game is about" and be done with it once again makes me wish that this whole edition was just a hard oWoD setting reboot. It probably doesn’t matter either way since I assume this edition's bringing in tons of new people where it is very much not an issue, but it's funny that every line's had a clean break in some way except for Vampire.
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Oct 3, 2022 19:47
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Dawgstar posted:According to something I read the Get are not Wyrm-tainted but instead in the throws of some new vocabulary term and are a group of violent Gaian zealots. Yeah, I know. I guess 'more so.' Like Harano but angry, maybe? Early promotional materials called it "Haglust" if I recall correctly. However, a Facebook comment from one of the board game tie-in developers more or less stated that the Get have indeed fallen to the Wyrm. Both of these things could be true; perhaps the Get got so pissed off that they ended up pulling off a White Howler-tier kind of a Really Bad Move. Come to think of it, has any current W5 material made any mention of the Black Spiral Dancers at all? Or any of the usual faces of the Wyrm, Formori, Pentex subsidiaries, all that stuff? I suppose it's just Earthblood, right? Who knows if that's even still "canon," so to speak. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to chuck out the Dancers and have the Get serve as the Garou face of the Wyrm, if the antagonist of this edition is even the Wyrm and its forces at all. An emphasis on "surviving the Apocalypse" implies that this might be more of a game about looking out for you and yours as the end of the world comes to bear with the occasional factory raid as a treat.
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Oct 4, 2022 01:11
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Free Gratis posted:it’s called “Hauglosk” I've never been so relieved to learn that I've spelled a word super wrong this whole time, thank you very much!
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Oct 6, 2022 19:00
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Humble Bundle's got a new WoD bundle with the VtM5 core, the 5th edition Camarilla and Anarch books, and also the Choice of trilogy, Draw Distance duology and Wraith: Afterlife. How are Out for Blood and Parliament of Knives? I liked the Night Road demo a lot and I hear good things about Heart of the Forest, but the other text adventures I know little about. I don't think I've seen a take one way or another from the WoD community on Afterlife either.
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Oct 21, 2022 23:10
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